Very Competative $2270 Perth - London

[RU/16]

Seems GT the aviation expert needs to do his homework. Quoting the new direct London flight from Perth as very competative in the local press at $2270 return! Just looked on sky scanner Singapore Air is $1620 on the start date next march.
Where does he get off with Qantas promotion and misinformation? Should he be outed for paid advertising?

[SixDemonBag]

You realise SQ isn't direct PH-LHR don't you?

[PoppaJo]

Supply and demand

You can fly Air NZ MEL/SYD-AKL-LAX for about 20% cheaper than AKL-LAX direct.

One would assume the MEL-LHR via Dubai or Perth would be the same price or close to as you can fly other carriers about 60mins longer.

Prices will sink within a 6 month window of the date. I recently purchased Singapore A380 MEL-LHR $1100 4 months in advance. A year out it was $2500.

[Fonz121]

Travel time via Perth is 90mins quicker than via Dubai. Whether that's worth the saving is up to the individual I guess.

[C441]

You realise SQ isn't direct PH-LHR don't you?
In travel industry speak it is.
If you don't change direction (by much), even with a stop, it's direct.
The Qantas PER-LHR is "non-stop" in the jargon.

I've even seen BNE-AKL-LAX quoted as "direct". At least PER-SIN-LHR is almost "great circle direct"! :confused:

[B772]

C441.

Technically speaking a direct fight has 2 or more legs without a change of flight number.

In the case of QF9 now a MEL-PER-LHR service it can be sold as a nonstop flight/service PER-LHR or as a direct flight/service MEL-LHR. That will confuse the punters.

[mikk_13]

31 inch seat pitch, 9 across, , 17 hours and 2000 bucks? awesome

[chuboy]

I believe it is 32 inches in economy with slimline seats that add more usable leg room. So from that aspect it is on par with what you would need for a 17 hour haul.

There's no getting around the narrow seating that comes with nine across in a 787 though.

[Pappa Smurf]

If you live in Perth its a non stop flight.
If you have to get to Perth first,then its not.

[Berealgetreal]

Any idea what other destinations are planned with the 787?

I think its time to change to the QF FF scheme.

Who in their right mind would choose a stop over in the middle east? About time that ****hole gets put in its place.

Kudos to QF for ordering the right aircraft.

If 787/350 or 321NEO isn't on your order books you just ain't in the game.

[Keg]

Any idea what other destinations are planned with the 787?


This is the rumour that was going around December last year. I recall someone else posting it previously on PPRUNE?

Aeroplanes 1 and 2- MEL- LAX
Aeroplanes 3 and 4- MEL- PER- LHR
Aeroplanes 5 and 6- BNE- LAX- NYC
Aeroplanes 7 and 8- SYD- YVR, SYD- PEK.

IIRC the next batch of 787s need to start being firmed up towards the end of this year? That's second hand from one of the recent meetings.

[AerialPerspective]

Seems GT the aviation expert needs to do his homework. Quoting the new direct London flight from Perth as very competative in the local press at $2270 return! Just looked on sky scanner Singapore Air is $1620 on the start date next march.
Where does he get off with Qantas promotion and misinformation? Should he be outed for paid advertising?
I'd like to know when GT decided for himself that he'd rename Singapore Airlines. To all the people I know, it's Singapore 'Airlines'... it says so in big letters on the side of the aeroplane. Just another example of how GT doesn't quite even get the language right. That might endear him to the uninformed but it does not carry any currency with people who know what they're talking about. Maybe it is very competitive, maybe it isn't but whether the direct/non-stop nomenclature crowds things or not, he does not qualify to determine what's competitive... or did he somehow become an airline economics expert while he was chucking bags.

[Troo believer]

Brisbane-Chicago

[p.j.m]

You realise SQ isn't direct PH-LHR don't you?

Who would want to pay a premium for a 17 hour non-stop flight? No one from the eastern states. Singapore is a far better option on an A380.

I pity those in Melbourne who are now on a smaller, noisier aircraft, and have to stop in Perth for 90 minutes to add insult to injury.

[p.j.m]

Aeroplanes 7 and 8- SYD- YVR, SYD- PEK.

IIRC the next batch of 787s need to start being firmed up towards the end of this year? That's second hand from one of the recent meetings.

They really need to get rid of the old 747's to Tokyo, so a 787-9 would be an upgrade there, and bring them into line with ANA & JAL once they (Qantas) fit them with wifi.

[Tankengine]

They really need to get rid of the old 747's to Tokyo, so a 787-9 would be an upgrade there, and bring them into line with ANA & JAL once they (Qantas) fit them with wifi.

787s to Tokyo would be a huge reduction in capacity compared to the 744.
The 744 is doing it without overtime pay to the pilots, expect shorter sectors to be flown by 747s and 380s, especially if the pax numbers are there.

[fearcampaign]

So Qantas plan the networks on pilot overtime? Are you really that gullible?
Amazing that Qantas made billions of dollars profit for a few years without the 787 having even arrived.
787 was never going to Asia, only AIPA thought that.
As Alan said' "The 787 was made to fly ultra-long Haul routes like Perth to London".

[Tankengine]

So Qantas plan the networks on pilot overtime? Are you really that gullible?
Amazing that Qantas made billions of dollars profit for a few years without the 787 having even arrived.
787 was never going to Asia, only AIPA thought that.
As Alan said' "The 787 was made to fly ultra-long Haul routes like Perth to London".

I am not that gullible, but that seems to be how thick our leaders are, at least by their rhetoric at EBA time.
Also by what a base manager said to me last week.:rolleyes:
The combination of fuel economy and crew costs will make it more likely that the 787 will do long sectors while the fuel hungry four engine types will reduce to shorter sectors.
This is why the company line was so strong on the change of contract for the 787.;)

[maggot]

So Qantas plan the networks on pilot overtime? Are you really that gullible?
Amazing that Qantas made billions of dollars profit for a few years without the 787 having even arrived.
787 was never going to Asia, only AIPA thought that.
As Alan said' "The 787 was made to fly ultra-long Haul routes like Perth to London".

Never asia? I do wonder what will do the current 330 intl flying when that fleets time comes...? 5 years time?

[B772]

Maggot. My guess is the B787-10.

[unobtanium]

Never asia? I do wonder what will do the current 330 intl flying when that fleets time comes...? 5 years time?

As trends go there replace the A330's with 737's.

[maggot]

Maggot. My guess is the B787-10.

Will be quite the network then

As trends go there replace the A330's with 737's.

Ha

[B772]

It appears QF sales between PER and LHR on the nonstop have been disappointing after all the publicity. The reason being they are double the cost of their competitors using either a stop in the ME or a stop in Asia.

[Tuck Mach]

Industry analysts privately have held concerns that despite the spin, the route would likely be thin.

Operationally it seems a bit of a stretch, perhaps not the correct aircraft. This a function of a decade of neglect of QF as much as anything.

If in fact ticket sales are not strong then perhaps the Qantas bashing induced by management against brand, staff and indeed customers has had a tangible effect on their demand elasticity.

[maggot]

So who actually has access to say its not selling?

Thin route? Gees if a 78 cant do it then maybe...

[pilotchute]

Any travel agent can see the loads

[lc_461]

Given the long lead time I doubt anyone would be expecting full aircraft just yet.

[Metro man]

Run the service via Singapore instead of non stop. Then there is a wide body on that route to compete with SQ and Scoot. Onward passengers can be picked up in Singapore from the J* network and other Australian cities served by QF. Tickets could even be sold to passengers originating in Singapore.

The aircraft could easily be filled up as seats would be sold in different markets enabling selective discounting. Bali to London could be priced lower than Brisbane to London if required. A Singapore stopover could be offered as an alternative to Dubai or even an addition as both cities could be visited as part of a London trip.

[BNEA320]

In travel industry speak it is.
If you don't change direction (by much), even with a stop, it's direct.
The Qantas PER-LHR is "non-stop" in the jargon.

I've even seen BNE-AKL-LAX quoted as "direct". At least PER-SIN-LHR is almost "great circle direct"! :confused:
direct means same aircraft. Before QF flew BNE/LAX nonstop, they flew BNE/AKL/LAX & so BNE/LAX could be called direct, but it wasn't nonstop.

[BNEA320]

It appears QF sales between PER and LHR on the nonstop have been disappointing after all the publicity. The reason being they are double the cost of their competitors using either a stop in the ME or a stop in Asia.because every other airline is trying to give away seats at present. We heading into one massive recession & everyone knows it, except some silly people who keep buying real estate in SYD & MEL.

[Tuck Mach]

Run the service via Singapore instead of non stop. Then there is a wide body on that route to compete with SQ and Scoot

As we picked up in other threads the hastily convened EK 'alliance' does not seem to make any money, nor is there upside in passenger numbers through Dubai.. Traffic patterns suggest the Asian routes are much preferred.

Is this hail-Mary ULH route a tacit admission that the EK alliance necessitates a hub through Dubai and trying to get something via Perth a way out of the spiral Joyce signed QF up for?

[Chris2303]

Any travel agent can see the loads

They cannot.

They can see only availability.

Qantas staff with access to Amadeus/Altea/Staff Travel can see loads

[C441]

Qantas staff with access to Amadeus/Altea/Staff Travel can see loads
Not on Staff Travel; it just shows N/A and can't be booked on S/T until about October.

I'm not sure too many staff will want to go that way anyway. The chances of being offloaded for seat availability will be bad enough but if it is looking tight on gas PER-LHR (and it will) you're a near certainty to get bumped.

[donpizmeov]

A swarm of 787s from Aust capitol cities into DXB/orSIN/orBKK/orKUL (insert your favourite hub here), then redistribute pax and onwards to lots of points in Europe would work a treat. The hub you have when not having a HUB. Seems to work for the competition.

[mikk_13]

A quick question.

When I fly Q from Melbourne to LHR via PER, will I have to collect bags from domestic terminal, re-checkin international flight and then pass immigration? Same the other way round? How can that be batter than going via SIN, BKK, DXB, AUH, DOH, HKG, PEK, NRT, or any others?

[Keg]

No. If you're flying on the QF9 you'll be on the same jet all the way through and your bags will be checked all the way through.

If you're coming from somewhere else (say ADL or SYD) you'll have a 200m walk (or less) between the T4 domestic gates to the T3 international departure area. You'll have to go through customs but with only a couple of hundred people I don't reckon that'll be an issue and youlll probably already be checked in.

Like occurs in any other port in Australia now, your bags can be checked all the way through from your domestic flight.

Returning may be a bit different if you're transiting and going to ADL. You'll need to clear customs in PER before checking in for the domestic flight. I suspect that will be made pretty seamless though and again, it's not like there's going to be heaps of people. If you're going to MEL though you'll clear customs in MEL.

[V-Jet]

Reduced customs times in PER with fewer int departures/arrivals is one positive I can see. If it really works out that way and if it lasts of course. In the old days a lot of customers when HNL-US for precisely that reason - Kerry Packer included.

[downdata]

No. If you're flying on the QF9 you'll be on the same jet all the way through and your bags will be checked all the way through.

If you're coming from somewhere else (say ADL or SYD) you'll have a 200m walk (or less) between the T4 domestic gates to the T3 international departure area. You'll have to go through customs but with only a couple of hundred people I don't reckon that'll be an issue and youlll probably already be checked in.

Like occurs in any other port in Australia now, your bags can be checked all the way through from your domestic flight.

Returning may be a bit different if you're transiting and going to ADL. You'll need to clear customs in PER before checking in for the domestic flight. I suspect that will be made pretty seamless though and again, it's not like there's going to be heaps of people. If you're going to MEL though you'll clear customs in MEL.

Rechecking baggage on the return leg will be a hassle for any domestic connection...

[AerialPerspective]

Rechecking baggage on the return leg will be a hassle for any domestic connection...
More likely your bag will still be tagged through and will be dropped at a desk after the CIQ barrier just like in the old days of International (QF and others) to Domestic transfers to TN and AN.

[BNEA320]

Originally Posted by pilotchute View Post
Any travel agent can see the loads

They cannot.

They can see only availability.

Qantas staff with access to Amadeus/Altea/Staff Travel can see loadsworked with Amadeus few years back, when I was multitasking for a small airline & travel agents sometimes book seats on a flight until it is sold out, so they can see availability & they can see how many seats can be sold, before an airline says no more, so this is effectively the load, plus maybe a few % for the no show factor.

Way I understand it, if an agent or whoever, books seats in a CRS, the airline isn't charged straight away, so if the agent cancels the seats relatively quickly, the airlines is not charged by the CRS company & doesn't get ****ty with the agent.

Had to ban some agents, who would book out a flight & not cancel the ones they didn't want straight away, so the airline was charged segment fees by CRS & yet got no revenue from the sale of tickets & probably lost sales, as no one else was able to book those flights, so leakage to other airlines was probably happening. You had to wonder, if the agents, were being paid in some form, to stuff up our inventory.

Remember stories similar to this when Compass mark 1 started. Res staff (talking 1990 before the internet) would answer the phone & would only get clicking sound, so someone, probably from Ansett or TAA/Qantas had organised for computers to continually dial Compass's 1800 number & therefore jam the phones, so real customers couldn't get thru. It happens, but very hard to prove.

[BNEA320]

A swarm of 787s from Aust capitol cities into DXB/orSIN/orBKK/orKUL (insert your favourite hub here), then redistribute pax and onwards to lots of points in Europe would work a treat. The hub you have when not having a HUB. Seems to work for the competition.QF would never get the traffic rights. Emirates/Singapore Airlines/Thai/Malaysia would never allow it & they are all basically govt run or funded airlines.

[keepitrealok]

QF already has a lot of traffic rights to European cities. Don is spot in.

[ExtraShot]

I'd put money on the likelihood that the initial flights are capped in both directions for the first few weeks (if not, even permanently). So any talk of the loads potentially being low should probably consider this. Any diversion or flight that doesn't make it in the early time period of the route operating will be a PR disaster.

The higher cost of the tickets probably not only reflects an attempt at charging a premium for a non stop service (well, non stop out of Perth anyway), but also a way to buffer the loss from a whole bunch of economy class being blocked off.

Its been no secret that ultimately QF see direct, point to point, ultra long haul travel as a major area they want the international business to grow. There has been a desire for an aircraft that can do SYD-JFK, and MEL/SYD direct to LHR, and obviously those would be a premium service at a premium price. Per-Lhr is a route that starts to give people the idea that these routes are possible and are worth the extra coin, so that when the Aircraft that can do those new routes profitably come into existence, they can point to the ULR routes they have been doing for years and say they are the old hands at it all.

I can see the company accepting that the route itself may not be very profitable, if at all, at the expense of reliability, only to have created a market whereby the company basically positions itself as the market expert/leader.

Playing the long game, if you will. Ofcourse, I could be giving management far too much credit.

[morno]

How long is DOH-AKL? And is Emirates doing Dubai to Panama?

[Daniel Bernoulli]

DOH-AKL is longer than LHR-PER.

[Derfred]

DOH-AKL is also longer than SYD-JFK.

Edit: my bad. Sorry, I was looking at AKL-JFK.

[JPJP]

DOH-AKL is also longer than SYD-JFK.

Wrong. Great circle SYD - JFK is 8648 NM. DOH - AKL is 7848 NM.

Bernoulli got it right (again;). DOH - AKL is longer by 19 NM. So, the nasty little Irishman hasn't really changed anyone's game. Except the DVT suffering punters in economy.

[Metro man]

I can see the company accepting that the route itself may not be very profitable, if at all, at the expense of reliability, only to have created a market whereby the company basically positions itself as the market expert/leader.

Singapore Airlines operated a non stop route from Singapore to New York with an A340 which was marginal, until oil prices skyrocketed when it got the chop. Low oil prices and new generation aircraft, the A350 have enabled them to announce a resumption.

Routings vary greatly on ULH flights, the airlines planning department are kept busy looking at wind charts and adjusting accordingly. Distance flown may be greater if the numbers work out for an increased tailwind or reduced headwind.

A ton of fuel loaded at the start of the flight will equal around 250kgs at the end after the burn off required to simply have it in the tanks.

[chuboy]

Other factor is that SQ put up with marginal yields on the ULH to New York because it took a lot of high yielding pax away from competitor airlines.

So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.

QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.

[rjtjrt]

A350-900ULR apparently has the range to do LHR or JFK to both Sydney and Melbourne non-stop.
Reduced pax load cf "straight" A350-900.

"Airbus has disclosed a formal range figure for the A350-900ULR of 9,700nm,....."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/a350-900ulr-range-figure-not-a-revision-airbus-437060/

[B772]

Airbus tend to over promise and under deliver. End up paying a subsidy to carriers to keep them hooked.

[ExtraShot]

Other factor is that SQ put up with marginal yields on the ULH to New York because it took a lot of high yielding pax away from competitor airlines.

So even though it wasn't a money spinner for them it hurt the competition which is just as good.

QF would, or at least should, be thinking along the same lines.


Absolutely. This is the general gist of what I mean, and Per - Lhr could be financially marginal for a while to take this traffic, and build customer confidence.

It also positions them at the forefront with a market that is confident in their ability to provide what they say they offer, once the Aircraft is available (777-8X might do SYD-JFK with 250 to 300pax, but I wouldn't think QF is going to buy it until it can do east coast direct LHR as well, perhaps an aux tank here, efficiency/weight refinements there, etc = lager order, better scale...). QF may not be the first to do the ULR thing, but Coke wasn't the original Cola, Apple wasn't the original computer, though they are now among the top companies within their respective markets because people know and like what they get.

The real eventual success of these long range flights will be capturing, (and in the case of First Class, re-capturing), the premium travellers who will pay a 10% or 20% premium to save the 3 or more hours in a direct flight.

I'm purely speculating with all this, but hey, if its true, the chance of a spare seat next to you in the crappy 9 abreast economy class might be quite good!

[BNEA320]

in todays Australian - EK 82% profit reduction. EY in trouble with massive loses from investments in Alitalia & Air Berlin, which are now virtually worthless. In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble. Similar to another GFC perhaps.

[Icarus2001]

In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble.

Gee you are a real doom and gloom merchant aren't you? Elsewhere you state that because the real estate market is subdued in Australia we are about to fall into recession and now because EK lose money it is the same as another GFC.

You really need to take a deep breath. We may end up in recession but it is not a certainty. How does ONE airline lead to a GFC?

[BNEA320]

Gee you are a real doom and gloom merchant aren't you? Elsewhere you state that because the real estate market is subdued in Australia we are about to fall into recession and now because EK lose money it is the same as another GFC.

You really need to take a deep breath. We may end up in recession but it is not a certainty. How does ONE airline lead to a GFC?reail estate boom is over, if you don't believe that, have dozen rental properties to sell you.

The recession is here now. Sounds like you listen to the absolute crap in the media, too much. Remember Australian media earns billions every year, in real estate advertising.

[Icarus2001]

Okay perhaps I assumed too much.

Let's go back to first principles. You do know what a recession is right?

Two quarters of negative growth in a row, six months in other words.

Any sign of that?

[BNEA320]

Okay perhaps I assumed too much.

Let's go back to first principles. You do know what a recession is right?

Two quarters of negative growth in a row, six months in other words.

Any sign of that?yep.

Have you noticed sales for everything these days, esp airfares ... $899 return to Europe & even less to USA(not Hawaii) return from BNE/SYD/MEL.

Airlines cannot fill international flight except in school holidays.

housing market
rental yields are dropping fast, as landlords can't rent their properties, so they keep lowering the rent, which makes the property worth less & less.

AUD$ - who knows where it will be in 6 months

[keepitrealok]

Sounds like you listen to the absolute crap in the media
In other words, world aviation is in serious trouble.

You have a very myopic view.

Delta Airlines paid out record 1B in profit share to employees.

Qatar Airways, from reports, is about to announce a record profit.

IAG has just announced a record first quarter profit.

Lufthansa Group has just announced a 4.6% increase in profit on last year, keeping their margins at record prior-year levels.

A certain un-nameable airline in the ME have never had a market, and will never succeed alone.

EK is finally having all of its chickens coming home to roost. The oil price has damaged the ME in extremely significant ways, and, ironically, EK is feeling the brunt of it. Cost cutting has meant that the EK product is no longer what it was, and passengers are going elsewhere.

BNEA320 your statement is a sensationalist, and uneducated one. To put it bluntly, you are full of ....

[CFM56-7]

320 sounds like the grim reaper. Nothing positive to say in any posts, negative negative that's it.

[Keg]

QF would never get the traffic rights. Emirates/Singapore Airlines/Thai/Malaysia would never allow it & they are all basically govt run or funded airlines.

What do you reckon happened in Singapore up until Qantas pulled out and replaced it with DXB? Every day pax would arrive from BNE on the QF51 and complex with the QF5 744 to FRA. They'd arrive from MEL on the QF9 and transfer to the QF5 heading to FRA. That's what a hub is and I suspect in the medium to long term that's what PER will become.

[Gamechanger]

BNE A320. EK lost money because of overcapacity, increased competition from other ME Airlines, loss of home traffic due to oil price falls affecting local premium traffic and laptop bans on the USA affecting loads.
Your talking rubbish.

[BNEA320]

320 sounds like the grim reaper. Nothing positive to say in any posts, negative negative that's it.nope a realist. Many seem to be living in LA, LA land, thinking the govt's going to fix everything, which it won't or can't.

[BNEA320]

You have a very myopic view.

Delta Airlines paid out record 1B in profit share to employees.

Qatar Airways, from reports, is about to announce a record profit.

IAG has just announced a record first quarter profit.

Lufthansa Group has just announced a 4.6% increase in profit on last year, keeping their margins at record prior-year levels.

A certain un-nameable airline in the ME have never had a market, and will never succeed alone.

EK is finally having all of its chickens coming home to roost. The oil price has damaged the ME in extremely significant ways, and, ironically, EK is feeling the brunt of it. Cost cutting has meant that the EK product is no longer what it was, and passengers are going elsewhere.

BNEA320 your statement is a sensationalist, and uneducated one. To put it bluntly, you are full of ....
wow are you a big real estate investor ?

Have shares in Alitalia, Air Berlin, Etihad, Qantas ? good luck with that.

Some very creative accounting is done, with international airlines, moving expenses to a different year or different jurisdiction. Know some tax lawyers/accountants who can make any balance sheet look good or bad for a while, but eventually the truth has to come out.

[Icarus2001]

Yes but all you keep talking about is real estate and airlines, or in particular Etihad.

The Australian economy is much more than these sectors.

Again I ask where is the evidence of two quarters of negative GDP growth?

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-gdp-growth.png?s=aunagdpc&v=201704031146u&d1=20070101&d2=20171231&type=column

[CurtainTwitcher]

Icarus, you are wasting your breath arguing with BNEA320. I collated a small collection of his infamous Xmas = doom for airlines posts dating back to 2013 in the Flight overbooking thread post #47 (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/593671-flight-overbooking-3.html#post9764202).

Dealing with BNEA320 is a some sort of weird hybrid between Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby story (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/brer_rabbit_meets_a_tar_baby.html) & the internet meme of "Sea-Lioning (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning)"


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/873/260/a5b.png

[BNEA320]

Icarus, you are wasting your breath arguing with BNEA320. I collated a small collection of his infamous Xmas = doom for airlines posts dating back to 2013 in the Flight overbooking thread post #47 (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/593671-flight-overbooking-3.html#post9764202).

Dealing with BNEA320 is a some sort of weird hybrid between Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby story (http://americanfolklore.net/folklore/2010/07/brer_rabbit_meets_a_tar_baby.html) & the internet meme of "Sea-Lioning (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning)"


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/873/260/a5b.pngjust because am good at predicting the future & no longer need to work full time.

[CurtainTwitcher]

In that case give us a specific actionable investment prediction with a last date to close the trade, with a profit. Hand wringing about the future "possibilities" is not a prediction. You have made so many "predictions" in the past, that effectively you have effectively covered your bases, and as the saying goes, even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Give us something concrete & specific.

Post it here for posterity so we can all judge your magical predictive abilities for ourselves with hindsight, and then if it turns out to be correct you can taunt us with your success & gloat about your great fortune.

Being early is the same as being wrong.

[BNEA320]

http://www.flyscoot.com/en/au-take-off-tuesday?utm_source=au-email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=au-take-off-tuesdayfar out Scoot going cheaper now $349 PER/ATH (yes meals & bags are extra but not much)

[BNEA320]

Yes but all you keep talking about is real estate and airlines, or in particular Etihad.

The Australian economy is much more than these sectors.

Again I ask where is the evidence of two quarters of negative GDP growth?

http://cdn.tradingeconomics.com/charts/australia-gdp-growth.png?s=aunagdpc&v=201704031146u&d1=20070101&d2=20171231&type=column

you don't see the real estate that doesn't sell in any figures.

Either one of 2 things happens:-
1) vendor is not desperate & despite real estate agent saying you'll get a great price, very little interest at that price & agent suddenly says, market has dropped, you'll have to take less(but agent won't drop his commission) he/she takes property off the market

or

2) vendor is desperate but doesn't want to sell for more than he/she paid year or 3 ago & hangs on until bank repossesses property. Takes a while for bank to hold a no reserve auction.

[wishiwasupthere]

When did Pprune become a travel agent/real estate forum?

[CurtainTwitcher]

just because am good at predicting the future & no longer need to work full time.

Still waiting for a precise actionable prediction including TIME.

[B772]

Another competitor for QF to contend with between MEL-LHR later in the year is JL. Starting prices are hundreds of dollars cheaper than QF and EK. Good if you are into Japanese :)

[Metro man]

I recently spent 16 hours on a ship, got on at 3.30pm and got off at 7.30am. We had a private cabin with our own bathroom, bed, TV and fridge. After dinner in the restaurant we had a good nights sleep. In the morning I had a nice hot shower and got dressed in clean clothes.

Arrived at our destination feeling fine. Would I like to have spent the same time confined in a sitting position with no privacy ? No way.

[maggot]

I recently spent 16 hours on a ship, got on at 3.30pm and got off at 7.30am. We had a private cabin with our own bathroom, bed, TV and fridge. After dinner in the restaurant we had a good nights sleep. In the morning I had a nice hot shower and got dressed in clean clothes.

Arrived at our destination feeling fine. Would I like to have spent the same time confined in a sitting position with no privacy ? No way.

Tell that to the folks on the very popular DFW-SYD service. Up to 17 easy.

[Beer Baron]

Arrived at our destination feeling fine. Would I like to have spent the same time confined in a sitting position with no privacy ? No way.
Are you serious??? Do you understand what air travel is all about??
How long is the cruise from Perth to London?
Cruising may well be about the journey but flying is all about the destination. Comparing one with the other is completely irrelevant.

[Metro man]

I could have flown the same route in about 1:10 however the ferry for two was the same price as flying for one, saved two nights hotel accommodation as each leg was overnight and was more reliable than going by air as flight cancellations and delays on the route were not unusual due to weather.

I was trying to give a comparison of 16 hours on a ship which was quite pleasant compared to 16 hours crammed sitting in an aircraft with limited movement which would have been miserable.

Different matter if you can afford first class on Emirates with your own suite and shower available, have space to move around and even a bar to sit and have a drink at.

[B772]

9 abreast on the QF 787 in economy. JL has just announced their 787 service to MEL is only 8 abreast and only a total of 161 seats in a B787-8 :D