Ryanair for experienced pilot [Archive]

Sallytraffic

26th Apr 2017, 10:16

Flyhigh is talking :mad: What's the matter? Didn't you get in back in 2009 when you were asking questions about the place?

The reasons why it's worth considering for the Op are numerous.... he's obviously got quite a few hrs, could be in the left seat pretty quick in ryr, could potentially be based near to home, money ok, straightforward operation etc etc etc.

Admittedly Ryanair are partly responsible for the way the industry is now but they are nowhere near as bad as the pay to fly bandits such as Violeta or whatever she's called, Vuelling or Air Baltic.
The real cancer of the industry are the training organisations who sell dreams to kids who shouldn't be trusted with a vacuume cleaner let alone a jet. They flood the market with individuals who can't land a job, rightly so in many cases, and then go on to use daddy's money to buy one.

If you want a straight forward job, turn up, fly the plane how they want you to, keep your head down and take the money it's alright. If you want a Gucci uniform, frappauchino and a hand job in the cruise then it's not the place to be.

In terms of getting experience there's not much better out there. T&C's not perfect by a long way but I have flown with numerous pilots who have joined from other airlines who all comment on how it is a very slick operation, how the aircraft is operated very, very conservatively and ultimately how you can turn up to work do your stuff, park it up and go home and very rarely hear anything from the company. It is still a training airline and there are many opportunities out there after spending a couple of years in the left seat here.

Ultimately and with all the expansion that is planned Ryr will need to do something to retain pilots who are leaving in droves, this summer will prove very interesting and at some point I sincerely hope management will be forced to improve the package - people have been saying this for years but it does feel a bit different this time with some big names going across to Norwegian, CSA and others.
I think it says a lot about the place when you have guys who have left to join the likes of BA straight onto 747/787 who are now returning to Ryr, unfortunately management will use this to further their case against giving us a few more quid.

I'm not management. I'm not a troll (look a bit like one) and I'm looking to get out in a couple of years to experience something different but I don't know many who regret joining even if it is just a stepping stone.

Good luck.

Stan Woolley

26th Apr 2017, 10:26

Well said Sallytraffic. :ok:

samca

26th Apr 2017, 10:38

I´m agree with 70% you wrote here.

Command upgrade quick... umm not totally agree I tried to prepare any single recurrent hard and keep studying but for the moment I´ve been almost 2 years in the company and keep waiting for the command upgrade.

Money... yes it is good compare with others LCC such us Vueling or Volotea or Iberia Express even Eurowings but from my point of view conditions should be betters.

Roster... for the moment is good 5/4 let see the summer...
Too many days 4 legs with 12 hours duty time kills you slowly. If you are so lucky of 2 sectors day base then everything change completely.

Base transfers... For me this is a weak point, there is no transparent at all. You don´t know really how they manage this. Also once you upgrade be prepare to go outside of your base for at least 1 year even 2... to a non popular base.

To be honest I would like a seniority list like Norwegian so you can manage your life (wife, children, dogs... :))

I don´t know where are you guy working now but here the training is hard, specially if you have not been training as a pilot since you were a low experience pilot, like a robot, they pay lot of attention in our Sims, OPCs, LPCs, Line trainings, specially for us OCC guys coming from other companies and specially in Stansted. So if you are looking for a quick upgrade it is gonna depends of some factors you cannot manage, the first one your Base Captain, he could be a nice guy trying to help you or maybe he does´t like your face too much and decide to retain you in the base as FO until he wants.

If you are looking to make money also it is not a good place.

If you are looking for living in Europe, it is a good choice but not probably the best.

And if you are looking for stability the answer is yes, good choice... Lot of airplanes coming and new rotes...

Avenger

26th Apr 2017, 11:03

If you do get selected for upgrade remember that Ryanair charge for this, 6000 plus euro bond plus deductions from your salary every month for 2years? and while you are at the upgrade training base ( STN or DUB) you pay your own costs. However, simple job ( well it was!) go to work, get paid, days off planned in advance, no hassle if you are on Ryanair contract

Sallytraffic

26th Apr 2017, 11:32

Samca - fair points risen there, they definitely prefer their own cadets to the OCC who are seen as a necasarry evil, the only reason for this is the cadets know nothing different than the ryr sops etc and don't revert to stuff that has been learnt at an other operator.

Avenger - 6000 Euro bond for 2 years. No deductions, nothing to pay back.

Dub or STN are the main upgrade training bases and you'll be required to do 100 hrs after getting signed off before going to your new base - as you're out of base you get an extra 20 eu an hour to cover expenses. It actually ends up being a very lucrative couple of months and for me covered the expense of relocating to my new base.

Ryr contracts are being given out at the moment as are Storm McGinley. Like everything, horses for courses, some prefer to stay self employed and others like to take a contract.

172_driver

26th Apr 2017, 11:50

If you want a straight forward job, turn up, fly the plane how they want you to, keep your head down and take the money it's alright.

Isn't that the mentality that's gotten Ryanair into the position they are... everybody keeping their head down!? Look at the remuneration how that's developed over time, the self-employment mess, the lack of respect (bring your own water, no free snack from the bar when blood sugar drops, unpaid standbys, the base transfer system, the guys fired over simple IDs... you know the rest..)

In my current airline management would love to see us fly for free. Fortunately we have a strong group of pilots willing to speak up when thing's aren't right. Admittedly we're backed up by labour practices that allow us to speak up in unison. My point being that the ethos of "keeping your head down" is flawed, and the situation can only develop for the worse.

midnight cruiser

26th Apr 2017, 12:02

Ryanair training is superb, but as for sim checking, it is the only place I have encountered where I sense the objective is constantly trying to trip up the candidates (for example, rattling off RT instructions so fast, or so timed, that the co pilot gets overloaded or confused, and why must the Cat3 fault always be the nastiest possible AP disconnect during the minimums go around?). Generally no biggie for the Captain, but for the FO, a 4 grade can delay command considerably. Normally I would be sceptical about a post like samca's, but it does kind of ring true.

JetpoweredMigrantWkr

26th Apr 2017, 12:39

Hey guys, good evening.
Is Ryanair a good option for an experienced FO with >6500, 5000 on type?

with 5000 jet time, I'd be looking for the fastest route to the left seat...
Starting at the bottom of the Ryanair seniority list might be a waste of your experience unless it is a quality of life issue.
Good luck either way!

midnight cruiser

26th Apr 2017, 12:50

There ain't a list - that's the point. It can be the quickest route to a command around, but luck and skill are needed to avoid the metaphorical quick sands along the way.

samca

26th Apr 2017, 13:31

I insist, the command upgrade here is a mix of 3 things

OCC or cadet + Your Base Captain + Stansted TRE

JQKA

26th Apr 2017, 17:09

JetpoweredMigrantWkr

26th Apr 2017, 17:13

There ain't a list - that's the point. It can be the quickest route to a command around, but luck and skill are needed to avoid the metaphorical quick sands along the way.

Good grief, a large carrier with no seniority system?
That's like the Thunderdome for pilots.

Callsign Kilo

26th Apr 2017, 18:38

If you don't care where you are based or arn't too bothered about the lack of any base transfer policy, then that's a plus. Additionally the lack of any transparent leave system shouldn't bother you. Contractual terms are both loose and variable & no real improvement of note has ever really been made. That said, it's a living & probably no where as bad as some of the real bottom feeders. However it should be much better considering their never ending crewing 'problems.' Problems mostly created by the culture washing throughout the organisation.

I left as a captain a number years back and I've never regreted it. I don't miss the roster as I wasn't truly 5/4 for quite some time. Yes the operation is slick & safe and I learned quite a lot from it.

Just be wary that if you have 5K on type with 6.5K total, they'll be asking the question why you're not a captain already? However that's their world. They don't really consider what goes on with other airlines

samca

26th Apr 2017, 19:19

Samca...
I know friends joined with 3000TT and they directly entered in RYR contract, base of preference and after a season, depends on performance, CMD course promised ....
Those were the deal....just few months ago

As I said it depends of your Base Captain, in some bases is easier to be recommended by your BC than others. That´s the first point and really really important.

Second point. Your simulators, they look any single fail, sometimes I feel there is no training just checking. In my case no problem with the handling or AP, FMC manage at all BUT as I said if you have a single 4 in just I repeat just one point, you are not been recommended and have to wait to the next sim...

So could be really easy if you are lucky or difficult if you take in account the points that I explained up in this message.

Skyjob

26th Apr 2017, 21:46

Agreeing with several posters above - it all depends on base!
You need recommendation by BC, who may not (yet) know you if base is too alrge AND BTRE (equally as BC but will try to fly with all SFO to assess regularly, however again in large base...).
Some bases are in between BC or BTRE posts thus delays exist there...

milo345

27th Apr 2017, 09:16

Hello
I will post my question hear so i apologise if it is somewhere else but i did not find it.
I guess some of you are experienced pilots at ryanair and i would appreciate if you could shed a light on my question.

I would like to apply for non-rated direct entry captain position in Italy.

What is the difrence in RYR ,Brookfield, McGinley contract and witch to expect.

If someone is living and working in Italy can you provide basic information regarding tax payment, because for me what i saw in

Ryanair pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair)

is a bit confusing.:ugh:

Thank you

Luibar

27th Apr 2017, 17:58

I just saw mcginley advertising for Ryanair NTR DEC with “Improved terms”. That means Ryanair has reviewed the package on offer?

Avenger

27th Apr 2017, 18:07

Sally, that will be an "extra" 20 euros and hour when working, not 20 euros an hour while you are in the upgrade machine, sim, ground school etc ? so assuming the process takes 3 months, for 2 months you are paying your own way? last month being actual Line flying..Ok there's the deal at the hotel £25 a night, but still expensive .. or am I forgetting something here?

Sallytraffic

27th Apr 2017, 19:03

Just to be absolutely clear before explaining, I am in no way a fan of this and I would much rather be provided hotac and all related expenses but it's not an option.

You get an extra 10 en an hour for about 1000 hrs on the run up to the command and once enrolled in the upgrade system.
Then when you start the training you have roughly 2 weeks where you are not earning whilst completing the ground school and sim.
Then you're line training where you will receive an extra 20 eu an hour due to being out of base and then once checked and completing your first 100 hrs from left seat in your training base you obviously are being paid captain money.
It all evens itself out really as you're flying a lot during that time so the 2 weeks off isn't too much of a hit.

As I say, far from ideal but the days where I've flown an 8 hour block and received an extra 160 eu for that day I have not spent anywhere near that amount in hotels and food - there are various tax benefits (all above board before the usual crew send my IP address to the revenue inspectors) as you're out of your base so you generally keep most of the extra money.

peba

27th Apr 2017, 21:52

Is part time still available on storm contract? Is it even worth it?

Avenger

30th Apr 2017, 20:14

You get an extra 10 en an hour for about 1000 hrs on the run up to the command and once enrolled in the upgrade system. Really! thats a year and 3 months at least before the upgrade..I don't think so..and 2 weeks for ground school and sim? come on..we all agree Ryanair training is first class, but effectively its a self funding period of 2 months...not 2 weeks. As observed, not everyone with high hours is guaranteed a quick upgrade and most high hours FOs end up taking a pay cut in the "hope" of the deadly "fast track" command.

samca

1st May 2017, 08:59

Sallytraffic

1st May 2017, 21:17

Avenger - wrong I'm afraid. You are self funding part of it but the money does come back. Ground school and sim takes no more than 2 weeks unless there's some kid of unforeseen delay.

Samca - I understand and feel your frustration. However and with the greatest of respect English doesn't appear to be your first language and this may be a barrier. Also and as mentioned earlier in this thread no one is entitled to get onto the command upgrade program. You need to jump through the hoops.

samca

1st May 2017, 22:21

Honestly I don't think the language is the problem here. Of course I have to jump through the hoops, I know I'm ready but there is a stone in my shoe... it is not a good place to speak about that but if you are a little bit smart you can imagine what is going on...

Cheers

volare_737

2nd May 2017, 01:25

Quick question - does anybody know if Ryan Air can arrange license validations for foreign licences ? I know City Jet does it !

doniedarko

2nd May 2017, 18:26

A long time ago they did. I believe the policy now is that you must hold an EASA licence and be willing to change to an Irish EASA license. Who knows if the Ryans can't attract/keep staff with the current T's and C's I'm sure the IAA would facilitate whatever validation programme was suggested. However as we all know Ryanair are never short of pilots. ;)

Callone

2nd May 2017, 18:45

Anyone based in Cagliari willing to share info like roster, number of aircraft based, average salary for cpt, life in Cagliari.

SextanteUK

2nd May 2017, 20:29

Hey everyone.

I've been trying to find solid info about pay & benefits, for both F/O & CA, and it's a nightmare. So many different agencies and contracts.

Is there any way I could filter all this info, or simplify it somehow, to find out the realistic earning potential for both positions?

I live in USA, but for family reasons I may consider moving back to Europe (Spaniard here).

Thanks guys

samca

2nd May 2017, 21:14

Yes it is quite simple. It doesn't matter what contract you choose if you do things in a proper way. That's mean if you pay taxes according to your salary (agency) or if you decide to take a Ryanair contract.

FO between 3500 and 4300 Euros net.
CPT around 5500 to 6500 Euros net

In both position flying 80 hours per month more or less. There is small difference between bases. Everything is included in this salary. Accomodation during training, housing, children schools, uniform, parking, food, drinks,snacks...

SextanteUK

2nd May 2017, 21:24

"Accomodation during training, housing, children schools, uniform, parking, food, drinks,snacks..."

Do I smell sarcasm :)

SextanteUK

2nd May 2017, 22:03

It seems like a pretty decent salary to me

Start Fore

3rd May 2017, 04:37

You're joking right?

samca

3rd May 2017, 12:32

It seems like a pretty decent salary to me

Hahahaha good joke

SextanteUK

4th May 2017, 05:47

Start Fore

4th May 2017, 05:57

8000 after tax for a Captain for medium body. 10,000 or more for wide body.

samca

4th May 2017, 08:29

I'm not trying to piss off anybody. So I'll rephrase my question. What would it be considered a "fair"/good salary for a captain after taxes in your opinion?

And on what companies are you able to earn that. (In Europe that is)

10.000 Euros nets for CPT
7.000 Euros net for FO

I think that in Europe only major airlines pay that. But that's the reason why so many experienced FO and CPT decide to go to ME, China...

akindofmagic

4th May 2017, 08:34

As a part time captain, I net just under €10000 per month. €3000 per month into my pension (paid in the ratio 1:2, me: employer). Bonus of around €15000 paid once a year.

Edited to add: based in Europe.

172_driver

4th May 2017, 08:41

I am not sure what constitutes a major airline, but oop north in Europe the old legacy carrier pays closer to the Ryanair wage.

jayc004

4th May 2017, 09:23

I don't know why people are so interested in net salary. Its all different in different countries and how efficient you are with your tax.
example; earn over £100,000 in the UK and you loose you tax free allowance and you pay 50%, however increase your pension contributions and tax free benefits and your 'net' increases by 50% technically as a total package.

Look at it this way.
(All numbers approx.)
Ryanair Captain average gross basic = £55,000 (depends on country and exchange rate)
easyJet Captain average gross basic = £95,000 (depends on country and exchange rate)

Obviously Ryanair hourly sector pay is higher than easyJet's physical sector pay, but then you can only do 900 per year.

Ryanair sector = £38 per hour -> 900x£38 = £34,200
easyJet sector = £31 per sector - 1h flight = 0.8 sector -> 900x(£31x0.8) = £22,000

So clearly you can see that even just looking at basics Ryanair pay is low.

Realistically, easyJet is one of the better paying companies in Europe. China money on reverse rotations is just not realistic. It is not a true representation of what you can expect to earn. On top of that "part-time" is either 1month/1month long haul or 2weeks/2weeks on short haul flying IN China.
Would I go and do it - nope.

samca

4th May 2017, 09:38

Anyway everybody agree with a pilot flying 900h/year in Ryanair has a low salary nowadays right?

172_driver

4th May 2017, 10:23

Low compared to what? Compared to a handful of airlines paying significantly better, yes. Compared to a teacher of 30+ year in community school, or a newly examined engineer who spent the greater part of his twenties in school, no.

If it wasn't for the legacy and mystery of flying we wouldn't be where we are today, paid what we're paid. Let's fight for what we have, but don't rant on about how poor salary Ryanair has got and how you're entitled to much more. If you're working for them, flying punters to Malaga for £20, your 'supporters' are hardly going to support you in this cause. A unionized pilot force, or a pilot shortage, is the only thing that's going to help you. And even then pilots all over seem to struggle to take advantage of the situation. If you want more money, apply for a job where they offer so and vore with your feet.

Ryanair has a lot to answer for, especially when it comes to employment contracts and employee rights, sick pay, base transfers, holidays, long hours (so does EASA that allows them), bullying, unpaid standbys and what not... anything that makes life bearable. But ranting on how little you've got in your wallet isn't gonna give you my condolences.

Avenger

4th May 2017, 10:31

This thread is creeping like a lizard! the original post was asking if Ryanair is a good option for high hours FO, basically asking if there are any fast upgrade opportunities. It was ventilated that the upgrade is a lottery depending on your own performance and the training/ checking staff.. it was also observed its not a free ticket, you effectively pay part of the costs and are bonded..so make your decisions based on that.. not what you may earn as a skipper. If you can put up with the pay and conditions for a couple of years then you can jump ship to a "proper company" if... you think the grass is greener, or sand is hotter..

RAT 5

4th May 2017, 10:35

Net salary is only one part of the equation. Find me any businessman who earns >€100.000pa and examine the package they have. I would expect to find: health insurance, company car, company contributed pension scheme 20-25% of gross salary, share options if applicable, bonuses if applicable, flexible holiday & days-off scheme, loss on income insurance (PHI), respectful senior management, decently furnished and clean offices and washrooms, unquestionable sickness reporting scheme, transparent employment package giving employment protections & rights, etc. etc.
The salary, compared to other vocations, might be acceptable, but the package, especially pension scheme, is often way below what the salary levels should command. That is a true comparison. The vocational element allows exploitation; and it has been allowed for decades.

samca

4th May 2017, 10:56

jayc004

4th May 2017, 10:57

OK.

Well working back to the thread line.
If you have a base near to where you live (and no other operator has a base there), and can be based there from the outset,
If you don't have to pay for a type rating,
If you can get a command back in the base near to your home and where you live OR you don't mind travelling about and seeing a bit of Europe because you are young and free or have a family that is happy to come with you,
If you are offered a PERMANENT employment,
If you are happy and able to live on the salary that is on offer

Then Ryanair is an acceptable place to work.....as long as you are not based in Dublin or Stansted!! :)

You have to go in to the company with your eyes open and be aware of what it is actually like.
There is no unity of employees, no protections and management are difficult.
The people you work with as colleagues are generally nice people.
Command can be fast with the correct level of experience.

There is a lot of noise about people leaving the company and wanting to come back again. Most of those are people who went to the sandpit for 5 years, made a lot of money but were unhappy about never seeing their families and wanted a bit of stability.

If I were in a position that I was paying for a type rating, I would choose easyJet. If I wanted to be based near London I would try for BA.
If I had a 737 rating and wanted a quick upgrade and nice P1 logbook for quick career progression to go earn China money then I would choose Ryanair.
If I wanted to be near a good sized regional airport that was served by Ryanair, then the decision is made.

I know very few people that regret leaving Ryanair to go to another company that operated from the same location.

Bealzebub

4th May 2017, 13:55

Men do not compare this job with a teacher. The responsibility you guys have in your hands, the thousand of things you have to manage every day, the environmental conditions of noise, pressure, fatigue, stress that we have to work with...

With all the respect you cannot compare

Men? Do women not count then?

You haven't met a teacher in an inner city school have you? I have been an airline pilot for 40 years and I can compare. Thanking my lucky stars!

Some of you need a reality check!

Stan Woolley

4th May 2017, 14:36

Hear hear Bealzebub.

I was a Ryanair Tre, it was a good, well payed job. Did I have the chance to influence many kids lives for ever? Will any of my students remember my name? Possibly, but I don't think we should be too up ourselves because we fly aeroplanes.

:rolleyes:

Apologies to OP.

MaverickPrime

4th May 2017, 14:53

RYR isn't perfect like any company, but its circa 180 days off, fixed pattern roster and possibility of a regional base for £3k net as a FO or £6k net as a CPT.

The grass isn't any greener at any company in any industry, you just have to decide what shade of brown you like the most!

samca

4th May 2017, 19:39

If the situation it doesn't change in the coming months best thing is to work 5 years in China and retire of Aviation low cost world in Europe.

Avenger

4th May 2017, 20:40

The money you "may make" in China you should keep to spend on your poor health in future years!

Luibar

4th May 2017, 23:08

Here at my current lot, very recently, a TRE resigned to join Ryanair as DEC on the same base where he has been. He caught everybody by surprise :ooh:

KayPam

4th May 2017, 23:28

samca

5th May 2017, 03:53

The money you "may make" in China you should keep to spend on your poor health in future years!

Nooo, the money you make in a LOco doing 12 hours Duty days 4 sectors during years and years

AIMINGHIGH123

5th May 2017, 08:08

Same I thought it was more like £4k for FO net.
I'm only TP and clear about £2.5 a month. Also don't have to pay for food, drinks, passes, medical etc.....

EFISchap

26th Jun 2017, 11:41

Q1: What is the current waiting time to hear back from Ryanair HR department after submitting a CV. I've thousands of hours PIC 737NG.
Q2: What bases are DEC's currently offered?
Q3: What contracts are on offer - Ryanair/Brookfield/storm/McGinley?
Q4: Do DEC's have to do a sim assessment?

737 CL

26th Jun 2017, 13:13

Hi Guys. Does anybody knows the Average take home for a Ryanair Capt TRE/TRI?

samca

26th Jun 2017, 13:27

Q1. Really short because they are very short of TREs, Captains, Senior FOs and cadets.
Q2. They are going to give you the base that you want.
Q3. I think they are going to offer you a Ryanair contract
Q4. Around 13000Eur gross you have to de deduct 40/45% and then you will have your average net salary.

FlyHigher

26th Jun 2017, 14:23

I don't think Ryanair offers direct TRE/TRI contract.

Someone asked if they contract a pilot with the aim of becoming base captain. I don't think they do it either.

EFISchap

26th Jun 2017, 19:20

Do you know if DEC's must do a sim assessment in EMT or STC?

VJW

26th Jun 2017, 23:29

Wherever the interview is- if I'm not mistaken I think it's always in STN.

And yes DEC's have to do a sim assessment- lol nice question.

BluSdUp

30th Jun 2017, 21:41

Some hints, Stay flexible!
Q1, It is summer, can take 2 days or 2 months?. TRY!
Q2 Any base is offered that day, not likely you ever see it . UNLESS you make that a dealbreaker.
Q3 No more BF contracts are on offer.
Q4 Yes .You most likely are invited to STC.

SAMCA :.Were do you get 13 000e/month from?. Rubbish.

Ryr has plenty of cadets.

What they need is TRE, DEC, and Inhouse FOs that can be upgraded.
Oh , and I forgot Line Trainers that like stress and peanuts.

Good luck to all.

FlyHigher

1st Jul 2017, 00:03

So, is a previous TRI/TRE experience an advantage to apply for the training department? Even if it is on another type (for NTR DEC)?

samca

1st Jul 2017, 03:42

13000 gross -45% tax = net salary flying 90 hours

LessPepper

1st Jul 2017, 04:53

So, is a previous TRI/TRE experience an advantage to apply for the training department? Even if it is on another type (for NTR DEC)?

Probably not, the only path to TRE as a DEC is to be a line trainer first. Or if a direct entry FO, SFI (TRI really but SFI in Ryanair terminology) first, then Captain and then TRE/Line trainer at the same time.

All TREs have to be LTCs (unless you've no medical obviously)

Theyre big on the right attitude towards teaching, much more so than previous experience at it. Everyone goes through FRs TRI/TRE course regardless of qualifications.

Luibar

2nd Jul 2017, 18:02

That's the way it should be.

What makes me wonder is why FR don't adjust the terms when they seems to be short of commanders. Is it true that FR reduced the bond from 5 to 3 years with that being advertised as "improved terms"?

Pepperseed

4th Jul 2017, 10:27

"Quick" command....

Like some have suggested in the thread, a reality check might be useful for those who think they are in a situation where they can "demand " a command upgrade after their "long" two years experience in the right hand seat.
Command is not only about the tech proficiency they think their "grades" prove they have. Part of the equation is maturity, which by the way increase tech proficiency in many respects. How can a candidate for a position be so assertively judging himself suitable for the said position he has never been in ? Does he really think this is about a Base Captain being nice or not ? Does he genuinely believe such a decision of upgrading individuals to the Captain rank is a light responsibility to shoulder ? Does he think his 2 years experience as an FO grant him a view that equates that of a Base Captain on the matter ? Does he realise what such an agressive way of demanding command tells about his maturity for the job ? Has he ever heard about humility?
I don't expect you SAMCA to understand this post. The way of thinking you show proves objectively you are unable to at the moment. But I sincerely suggest you start digging in that direction.... 2 years... you haven't seen anything yet...
No hard feeling here.. Just a sincere suggestion... Humility and attitude are part of the required skills for this job

samca

4th Jul 2017, 18:12

Well that is just your opinion. You don't know me, I've been Captain with 25 years old in a executive aviation company.

2 years in the RH seat?, no my friend I flew this airplane in America, from Canada to Uruguay, everysingle country...

Yes it is the responsibility of the Base Captain to recommend us for the CU. Sadly say that people like you do not have the correct perspective In training terms to recommend anybody. As a guidance you take your decition based on personal issues and not professional skills.

Humility? If you are who I think you are, this word is completely out of your dictionary. And you recommend me humility? Everybody knows you, who you are and where you comes from

Anyway I'm going to be happy always as FO or Captain, in this company or another but you are going to be alone in your life and with no friends and collegues in the base where you were BC during long long time.

2 years for me been more than enough time to understand what was going on...
10 years you stayed here and you are alone and completely lost.

SID PLATE

4th Jul 2017, 18:39

Oh Dear Simca, not bitter then ?
I resigned from Line Training because of the trainees who thought they were much more competent than they actually were, had an unhealthy egotistical attitude, and who found it difficult to accept home truths (google it) or criticism.
It wasn't worth the stress.
It still isn't. Don't know why I felt the urge to post ......

Pepperseed

4th Jul 2017, 20:23

Ok Samca

Fair enough. You are experienced.
I am basing my comments only on what you wrote on here and have no connection whatsoever with your company. By the look of it, I am not the only one to have reacted the way I did... So dare I say "food for thought" ?
But at the end of the day, you are certainly right, we don't know each other so my impressions may possibly have been wrong...
However, when things don't happen the way you want them to, looking inside might not be a bad idea...
Demanding command just sounded quite odd to me... Not too sure how demanding harder may work better though... let alone with the Chinese
Anyway... all the best
Cheers

volare_737

5th Jul 2017, 02:11

Quick question - Has anybody started at Ryan with a validation of another ICAO licence?Other words without an European Licence.
I remember about ten years ago the Irish CAA did allow that.

doniedarko

5th Jul 2017, 18:55

I'm pretty sure Ryanair only employ EASA license holders now. It is at least a decade since they took non EASA. However the current experience shortage may force Ryanair to address this in one of 2 ways. Increase pilot salaries or employ non EASA keeping salaries down and profits up ! So I'd say hang in there buddy you have more of a chance than a ryr payrise 😉 imho

VJW

5th Jul 2017, 19:23

You sound confident donie, but not sure where you got that.

I flew with an FO yesterday who's been in the company 3 years and joined on a South African ATPL validated by the IAA. He said that validation needed to be renewed every 6 months by the IAA at a cost to him. He's since sat the UK EASA ATPL exams and did the flight test with RYR and is now in possession of the IAA EASA ATPL.

FWIW EASA has only been around for a couple years - far less than a decade ;)

My advice is apply to RYR and you'll find out the actual answer.

Marchisio

5th Jul 2017, 19:53

If you want to fly EI registered aircraft you have to hold a licence issued by IAA or at least validated by them..

Lepo

6th Jul 2017, 01:26

I have an ICAO licence with B737NG type rating and applied to Ryanair last year. Here's the answer that I got from the guy at McGinley (November 2016):

"Thank you for your application to Ryanair. Presently we are not recruiting type-rated first officers. However, when we do start hiring applicants do need to have an EASA/JAA licence. We would not be able to accept your application if you hold an ICAO licence."

What I heard is that for captains they're accepting non EASA licence but the pilot has two years to convert his/her licence into an EASA one. Don't know if it's true.

VJW

6th Jul 2017, 02:46

If you want to fly EI registered aircraft you have to hold a licence issued by IAA or at least validated by them..

Strictly speaking, you don't need an IAA issued licence - any EASA licence is legal. RYR make you get the IAA one however.

Lightbringer

11th Jul 2017, 08:27

In my base te BC put you in the program of 10 Euros extra per hour 2 or 3 months before your ground course. We are 3 OCC guys with almost 2 years in the company and lot of experience and don't have this benefict. I sent a query to the company about this issue becouse I think I'm entitled BUT not answer at all.

I got previous experince but not on the B737. Joined with 2000 h+ TT.
I got my +10 E the same day I reached the minimum requirement.
Also they have extended the +10 E program to 1200 h.

Min require to start CU program:

800 h B737 with Ryanair(+one winter season)
1500 h JAR-25
2900 h total time
2 last simchecks with grade good or better.

samca

11th Jul 2017, 12:20

I got previous experince but not on the B737. Joined with 2000 h+ TT.
I got my +10 E the same day I reached the minimum requirement.
Also they have extended the +10 E program to 1200 h.

Min require to start CU program:

800 h B737 with Ryanair(+one winter season)
1500 h JAR-25
2900 h total time
2 last simchecks with grade good or better.

Yep, because you are in a base with a good BC. I have double min requirements...

VJW

11th Jul 2017, 14:10

Not everyone with minimum requirements gets put forward...perhaps you need to think as to why you haven't?!

LessPepper

11th Jul 2017, 14:57

Samca, it might serve you better to consider what you can do to better your situation and get recommended in the future rather than dwelling on it.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 06:57

Not everyone with minimum requirements gets put forward...perhaps you need to think as to why you haven't?!

Yes I tell you, it is not only a question of minimum requirements only. I comply with it. Last word has your Base Captain. Probably your face, hair, eyes, skin or skills doesn't like him. In that case he decided do not pay you 10+ Euros.

Let's speak a little bit about the point of last 2 sim checks graded good or better. Let's explain the people that is reading this thread this point.
Time ago the form which the examiner used to evaluate your sim had only one mark, so 1,2,3,4 or 5 and 3 was equal to GOODr. So in the past was enough just passed the sims.
Nowadays we have beed evaluated in lot of areas and every box in the new form has to be graded. The main mark has changed and now it says:

PASS
PARTIAL PASS
FAIL

the last MEMO from the company it says that if your last two sims has been graded as PASS is good enough to be entitled for the 10 + Euros extra.
In fact the company has changed the OPS MANUAL part D and now where it says that your last two sims has to be graded PASS, they changed the word GOOD or BETTER for the word PASS.
This is because it is quite easy to have in the rest of the form one
single point with a 4, but let's speak a little bit more about the last MEMO.
Also it says: do not have any area with IMPROVEMENT REQUIRED = 5.
In my case I never failed a sim in this company, even a partial pass, I never got a 5 in any single point of my sims, NEVER EVER EVER... my CRM always graded with 2, very good relationship with everyone, I consider myself a normal guy, just normal, normal skills, normal attitude...
I tried to claim several times to my BC to be in the program but he decided do not give me the 10+ Euros. I sended queries to the company training department and answer was try to speak with your BC. Finally I decided to forget the 10+ Euros continue flying as normal and wait for the new BC to come within the next few months.

This is my case guys, I'm not saying all the bases BC are the same, surely in other bases is quite different but here is like that. Even I'm seeing other collegues going to the upgrade with only 2 or 3 months of extrapayment.... but as I said I think it is not a problem of the company, seems to be that they change the requirements to entitled more SFO to get this extrapayment, it is just a particular problem, in fact it is just my problem and I don't know if in other bases it happened the same.

Cheers

BluSdUp

12th Jul 2017, 07:38

It is nice to see that the system works!
The Base Captain talk with all the captains You fly with.
Saves the company a lot time and effort trying to upgrade someone to early.
If he sends a looser for upgrade and he obviously is going to fail, as he is not fit for Command , the Base Captain gets some serious negative feedback.

The BC is the first line of defense against incompetent upgrades and he is doing a great job for the company.
To many FOs have failed upgrade due lack of maturity , sop, skills, language etc.

Your BC is doing a great job and he happens to be on Pprune!

Good luck to all you stripeChasers, but dont count on it.

VJW

12th Jul 2017, 08:05

Thepirate

12th Jul 2017, 09:02

Hi all,

Anyone help me out.......

Looking at fr non type dec (from airbus) because they hav base i want and 5:4 roster.....

Is the bond 3 years now and do they pay accommodation and base salary during type rating?

Can you get any form of guarantee from them that you will stay in your base and not be forced moved (aslong as base remains obviously)

Whats the rumours re increase in t+c's i wouldn't want to jump too soon

Do they still have very strict fuel policies?

Is it possible to do your job go home and have a nice life there?

Thanks in advance

samca

12th Jul 2017, 09:58

Here there is a difference between to go for the upgrade and to receive the 10 + Euros extra... yes the system works but seems to be that you don't have clear this small detail.

Anyway if you think that the BC is saving the company of people like me good. Probably you are right, I'm incompetent or not good enough to be Captain now. Ok... Fully respect of your point of view but one thing is to go right now to the upgrade and the other is to be in the program for the CU.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 10:10

In addition and without wanting to sound too cruel, but if your spoken English is anything like your written, you don't come close to having ICAO level 6 English.

I wouldn't blame the grading system too much. Never receiving a grade 5 (fail) is nothing to be proud about. A grade 4 is a fair and not sufficient to be put forward. On a bad day most guys probably get 3's. So if that's your best ever, then while it's minimum there's guys out there getting 2 or 1's every time with better CRM grades. It's been like this since before I upgraded 5 years ago.

While you might scrape minimum requirements, RYR doesn't have the time or energy to waist on someone who might pass when there's plenty who definitely will also waiting. In addition, the poster above is correct, why would a base captain stick their neck on the line for someone they aren't certain will pass. It'd only come back to them and their own skills at putting people forward would come into question. I wouldn't do it.

Sorry about my grammar, yes I know, it is bad. Good thing here it is you catch the message.

I'm not proud of my 4 in one area of the sim, of course not, I'm just saying I comply with the requirement for the 10+ Euros extra, that's all. No more no less. I also have a few 2 (very good) and 3, and just one point with 4. I can wait for going to the CU it is not a big deal but I can not understand why I'm not in a program which you can stay 18 months before going to the upgrade. That's all.

Again sorry for my grammar it is not my native language. I prefer to speak 4 languages, english, Portuguese, italian and Spanish and to have a bad grammar in English instead to speak only English perfectly. I will try to study a little bit more grammar and to improve my level 5. It is gonna be hard but I'm confident will achieve...

Luibar

12th Jul 2017, 11:08

Is the bond 3 years now

As I was told you will be on a reduced basic pay during the bond period. Will it be "negotiable" to have the bond but with full basic salary? Not being perfect would be a little more atractive.

VJW

12th Jul 2017, 11:13

I understand it's not your first language, speaking 4 is impressive, however we are in the game of English proficiency. Which is even more important when a Captain.

Anyway, I can understand your frustrations, however to get the 10 Euro extra, people need to show, that once they have the experience they'll be in a position where more than likely they'll be ready to upgrade. That's why you can be in this system for 18 months receiving this extra payment. You however have the hours now, yet your sim obviously shows you don't currently meet that part of the requirement. Therefore with needing two consecutive sims to have grade 3's or better, how is it you expect someone to say yes this person is ready to be in the upgrade system - or will be ready in another year, when currently you've not shown evidence that will be the case?

Sorry to sound harsh, but ask yourself if you'd recommend someone in your situation.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 11:53

My friend strongly recommend you to check your OPS Manual Part D. It is says PASS, I say you again PASS. Not 3 or better, that was before. So yes I comply with this part also. The MEMO it says quite clear that you need your two previous simulators graded PASS.

It is quite simple and you are doing so complicated. The question here if someone is reading this thread is.

An experienced pilot joining Ryanair doing everything normal, passing OCC course, passing the simulators with PASS and comply with the minimum requirement for the upgrade... is he going to be in the program for the CU ?

Answer : No

Why?
Because the last word is from your Base Captain.

Finish

samca

12th Jul 2017, 11:58

Let's say the people the truth. Specially if you are a FO with hours on 73 and think that you going to join the company as Senior FO with this privilege and one year you are going to be Captain here...
Answer : it depend of your BC. So answer is NO!

VJW

12th Jul 2017, 12:04

Yep- it must be someone else's fault.

I know plenty of OCC FO's who joined with hours, who did the command after one year and were in various bases. None ever got a 4 in the sim, and all had level 6 English.

Must certainly be they all had nicer base captains.

Oh and for what it's worth, the base TRE's are in charge of this.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 12:08

Again I don't need a level 6 English, is not compulsory. My level 5 it is enough.
From my OCC all the people stay as FO except one Italian guy, the rest still Flying RH seat.
things are things.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 12:09

We signed two years ago, from different companies in Europe and outside...

VJW

12th Jul 2017, 12:20

Going round in circles. Maybe none of you are ready - just a thought. There's a difference between having minimum requirements and being ready.

Either way- you win I give up, give me your crewcode and I'll recommend you.

samca

12th Jul 2017, 12:27

Hahahahaha very good, no, before you have to put me the extrapayment for a few months if you don't mind. I don't going to request 18 months of extrapayment but at least 6... what do you think? You must be a good guy hahahahahaha, I send you my crewcode in a private message.

FlyHigher

12th Jul 2017, 14:49

Is the bond 3 years now and do they pay accommodation and base salary during type rating?

Yes, they provide an allowance for accommodation during the TR if you're on a direct contract with Ryanair.

Yes, you get basic salary during TR.

Will it be "negotiable" to have the bond but with full basic salary? Not being perfect would be a little more atractive.

Yes, that would be nice. You can always try...

BluSdUp

12th Jul 2017, 16:46

To all of You that are considering the company or any company for that mater as a DEC or FO
( By the way there is only FO no DE-FO after safety pilot release, you are all the same.)

Your performance has to be better than minimum pass grade.
This is why most company do not hire DEC unless they rely have to.
Why? DEC and experienced pilot has great difficulty performing to RYR standard.
OCC is short and to pass sim , line training and consecutive good or better performance is rare.
When I did sim I used to call it " Un-learning". And the most popular excuse was:" The other aircraft" and " My company used to,,,".
In FAA terms they call it Indoctrination and I took offence to that word.
Now I love it!
You change Company and aircraft as DE somthing ,You work,eat sleep new kit for at least 6 months.
If You think you can walls in to any Company and steal a base position in front of the rest you better have your stuff sorted.
Its great fun and has a medium reward as by nature You have choices.
The SOP is king ,start marching to the tune. If out off stepp You are in trouble.
Read, comprehend and execute.
Simple realy.
As we all are in the illution that we are the illegitamate grand son of Cuck Yeager , I propose to read his autobiography!
He was actually a humble and smart man.
And Granny lied to encurrage You.
If You have it and the stamina, welcome.
If in doubt,go away.

Good luck to all.

SID PLATE

13th Jul 2017, 17:53

samca

13th Jul 2017, 21:28

Hola Samca,
A bitter, 36 year old FO who thinks he ought to be a Captain, but the world is against him, is not a healthy addition to any flight deck.
The training department in RYR are constantly harassing Base Captains for CU recommendations. They know who has the hours, and who has the qualifying RST grades. If the Base Captain doesn't put a qualifying FO through to the course, they, the BC, has to present a very good reason for not doing so.
A suggestion .. read back your recent posts, and then wind your neck in ..(google it).
You are not doing yourself any favours here. The LTC's in STN and DUB, where most command courses are run, or completed, will be aware of you. Word gets around. They are professional enough not to make life difficult for you .. but they will point out any defects in your attitude and ability.
From your posts on here .. you might not appreciate the criticism.

Hahahahaha very good. Now I'm really scared I think this night I can not sleep. What can I do??

My God, my attitude? Nobody can speak about his situation and what is living in a company?

Anyway I expect that everything what you are telling here will not happen, it wouldn't be fair. But in the worst of the case if it happens. Do not worry! I've been in the hell before and there is life after all you know.

I'm quite happy to be like I am, and when a read post like yours I give thanks God not to be like you. I could be FO 100 years more no problem but I'm really proud to be the kind of person that suits my family, friends and collegues. Not you. The fact that you have a title like BC, LTC, TRA, TRE, TRI, TRO, TRU, SFI or king of Zamunda doesn't makes you better person than me. You don't know me, who are you to question my abilities, skills or personality?
If what you are saying is true, and the trainers is going to wait me when I join in the CU course I just have to say one thing more. What a sad life you have guys!!

Good flights!!