Operational honours list

[LTLFTP]

Some good names and awards in there from Op SHADER, I'm sure the citations will make interesting reading. Top work fellas (and ladies!)

RAF Honours (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/Operational%20Honours-%20April%202017%20.cfm)

[racedo]

Flight Lieutenant John Paul JONES :D:D:D

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Surely someone of that name should be in RN......

[Tankertrashnav]

Any decision yet on a campaign medal for Op Shader? Be nice to have a campaign ribbon to wear those MID emblems on.

[Sun Who]

Sentry E-3D Mission Crew TEAM AWARD, RAF WADDINGTON.:D

[downsizer]

Doesn't Shader now qualify for the new GSM? Or did I dream that? :confused::\

[Stitchbitch]

Well done all!

[Melchett01]

Doesn't Shader now qualify for the new GSM? Or did I dream that? :confused::\

Afraid not, no SHADER medal so far. The new GSM clasps are geographically rather than thematically based, so they will have to decide where as much as what counts e.g. what about ground crew in Cyprus, personnel deployed in support and Liaison functions around the Levant region as well as those specifically operating in/over Syria and Iraq. So I suspect there are arguments over that as much as teeth sucking over cost and whether it hits the criteria of risk & rigour. Personally, I'd have thought a Near East or Levant clasp would cover it nicely.

[fingureof8]

Sentry E-3D Mission Crew TEAM AWARD, RAF WADDINGTON.:D

Well done guys... what's the story?

[Herod]

Flight Lieutenant John Paul JONES

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Surely someone of that name should be in RN.....

Don't you mean USN?

[gijoe]

Afraid not, no SHADER medal so far. The new GSM clasps are geographically rather than thematically based, so they will have to decide where as much as what counts e.g. what about ground crew in Cyprus, personnel deployed in support and Liaison functions around the Levant region as well as those specifically operating in/over Syria and Iraq. So I suspect there are arguments over that as much as teeth sucking over cost and whether it hits the criteria of risk & rigour. Personally, I'd have thought a Near East or Levant clasp would cover it nicely.

That is it in a shell for a nut.

The decision, or lack of one, is almost embarassing. Other Commonwealth nations have been recognising the time and personal sacrifice that their people make since day one...and medallically awarding them with items with HM's image on.

Meanwhile the UK continues to send people on ops - oops sorry it is not ops so you won't get Op Allowance - to fill ops roles - oops, sorry it is not ops so you won't get a medal - and in many, many cases resulting in junior ranks receiving a monthly wage that is less than they receive in the UK - it is ops and you are not in the UK so we will take your Home to Duty away.

Junior Ranks of all colours that have not done ops before are confused - and the leadership of all colours needs to pull its finger out.

[racedo]

Don't you mean USN?

Well USN doesn't give out Royal Honours ever since they decided to go it alone.

[Herod]

No, I agree, but the John Paul Jones I think you're referring to was never in the RN. Or are you not referring to the captain of the USS Bonhomme Richard?

[alfred_the_great]

That is it in a shell for a nut.

The decision, or lack of one, is almost embarassing. Other Commonwealth nations have been recognising the time and personal sacrifice that their people make since day one...and medallically awarding them with items with HM's image on.

Meanwhile the UK continues to send people on ops - oops sorry it is not ops so you won't get Op Allowance - to fill ops roles - oops, sorry it is not ops so you won't get a medal - and in many, many cases resulting in junior ranks receiving a monthly wage that is less than they receive in the UK - it is ops and you are not in the UK so we will take your Home to Duty away.

Junior Ranks of all colours that have not done ops before are confused - and the leadership of all colours needs to pull its finger out.


They must be on a hell of a HTD that their LSA doesn't cover it.

[Melchett01]

That is it in a shell for a nut.

The decision, or lack of one, is almost embarassing. Other Commonwealth nations have been recognising the time and personal sacrifice that their people make since day one...and medallically awarding them with items with HM's image on.

Meanwhile the UK continues to send people on ops - oops sorry it is not ops so you won't get Op Allowance - to fill ops roles - oops, sorry it is not ops so you won't get a medal - and in many, many cases resulting in junior ranks receiving a monthly wage that is less than they receive in the UK - it is ops and you are not in the UK so we will take your Home to Duty away.

Junior Ranks of all colours that have not done ops before are confused - and the leadership of all colours needs to pull its finger out.

But you know what we're like for medals, they're just not the done thing. Unless you can convince some senior type that it's up there with D-Day on the risk scale - and the criteria can be sorted to enable his chums to qualify ahead of the other Services; and unless you can convince the Finance types that spending money on people rather than management consultants is a good move; and as long as the politicians and Seevice Chiefs can put a good spin on it to get more votes / jets / tanks / ships, then it probably won't happen quickly. Or at all. Pending a full scale inquiry to ensure it doesn't conflict against some seemingly random decision made in 1957.

[Jimlad1]

The lack of medallic recognition is becoming a major issue for a lot of guys. In the RN for instance there are people who have done 5,6 or more tours in Bahrain. The argument that 'oh but you get LSA' seems to ignore the fact that you are away from home, subject to pressures that are not necessarily hostile, but which do place restrictions on your life, and which do involve a lot of commitment.

I personally think beyond the 'Long Service', 'Campaign' and 'Gallantry' medals, that a 4th category is needed for what I'd call 'deployment' medals. Essentially a single gong which you can add clasps to for time deployed on an Operation that is not a Campaign. This would recognise repeat offenders in the Cyprus / Bahrain areas, but also allow for a SHADER campaign medal for those on the ground or in airspace to sublty differentiate the additional risk.

The days of people with the HERRICK/TELIC combo being commonplace are drawing to an end, with far fewer people having that now. Yet we remain busy and operationally deployed, even if not every deployment is a two way range. Recognising that our people do great work overseas in a small way seems reasonable to me.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thanks for the update on an Op Shader medal (or lack of one) chaps. I used to be pretty au fait with medals but I get a bit out of touch these days.

[Melchett01]

The lack of medallic recognition is becoming a major issue for a lot of guys. In the RN for instance there are people who have done 5,6 or more tours in Bahrain. The argument that 'oh but you get LSA' seems to ignore the fact that you are away from home, subject to pressures that are not necessarily hostile, but which do place restrictions on your life, and which do involve a lot of commitment.

I personally think beyond the 'Long Service', 'Campaign' and 'Gallantry' medals, that a 4th category is needed for what I'd call 'deployment' medals. Essentially a single gong which you can add clasps to for time deployed on an Operation that is not a Campaign. This would recognise repeat offenders in the Cyprus / Bahrain areas, but also allow for a SHADER campaign medal for those on the ground or in airspace to sublty differentiate the additional risk.

The days of people with the HERRICK/TELIC combo being commonplace are drawing to an end, with far fewer people having that now. Yet we remain busy and operationally deployed, even if not every deployment is a two way range. Recognising that our people do great work overseas in a small way seems reasonable to me.

Jimlad1,

Fully concur, especially as medals are one of the few things we have left to recognise service given the rapidly dwindling recognition in other elements of our Ts & Cs. In my opinion the Canadians, IIRC, have it right. They have an 'operational' medal for those actually sausage side and what amounts to a 'support' medal for those employed on named ops but not actually in country doing the fighting. So there is precedent in the Commonwealth for such an arrangement I think the US had something similar for the GWOT before individual Iraq/Afghanistan medals. And if the Canadians require HM 'approval' and it has been given, then the blockage would be some senior types in the system rather than HM taking a dim view of too many medals.

If Middle Eastern ops in the broader sense and the Falklands are so important then give the guys a 'non-op' medal. It's really not hard and would go a way to actually proving that people are our best asset when everything else seems to be hit by constraints.

[gijoe]

Totally agree with the Hon Melchett and Jimlad1.

The lack of decision is embarassing. It may suprise some but there are people with 2 x Jubilees and LSGC - and no ops. It is therefore important to recognise time spent on such. Why give an LSGC to officers? The 'behave yourself' bit comes with job - and then not reward those that are away from family and friends for long stretches??

Leadership - pull your finger out. A decision, even if you don't agree with it, is better than no decision. It is what you are paid to do.

[Treble one]

For those of use with more knowledge of the honours system than I-is a DSO considered a 'greater' award than a DFC for example-or is it simply a different award for a different circumstance e.g. DSO for Leadership vs DFC for gallantry in the face of the enemy?


Many thanks
TO

[trim it out]

More information on criteria for awards available here (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/557785/JSP761_Part1.pdf) and here (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility) Treble.

DSO is a level 2 award and a DFC a level 3 according to the JSP.

[Treble one]

Many thanks trim it out.


Rgds
TO

[alfred_the_great]

The blockage is CJO - of all cloth, crabfat blue, bootneck lovat or pongo green.

[Easy Street]

Not what I'd heard, AtG. The current CJO is apparently in favour of broad (ie Cyprus and Gulf) SHADER recognition, and it is the Chiefs of Staff Committee which has been the blockage recently. I can't imagine it would be CDS, CAS or 1SL causing the difficulty...

[gijoe]

Not what I'd heard, AtG. The current CJO is apparently in favour of broad (ie Cyprus and Gulf) SHADER recognition, and it is the Chiefs of Staff Committee which has been the blockage recently. I can't imagine it would be CDS, CAS or 1SL causing the difficulty...

I'll go with that. :ugh:

[Melchett01]

Not what I'd heard, AtG. The current CJO is apparently in favour of broad (ie Cyprus and Gulf) SHADER recognition, and it is the Chiefs of Staff Committee which has been the blockage recently. I can't imagine it would be CDS, CAS or 1SL causing the difficulty...

So, held up by people that in all likelihood haven't deployed for years, if not decades, but will no doubt be in line for a seemingly automatic 'K' or some such
for just turning up to a plush office and large staff. Pretty much as I might have imagined. Would be interested to understand what the difficulty is exactly that is taxing their decision.

[gijoe]

So, held up by people that in all likelihood haven't deployed for years, if not decades, but will no doubt be in line for a seemingly automatic 'K' or some such
for just turning up to a plush office and large staff. Pretty much as I might have imagined. Would be interested to understand what the difficulty is exactly that is taxing their decision.

Spot on - 'It doesn't apply to me...but I don't think it is justified anyway. Oh by the way, looked at all of the cash I have saved by not approving this.'

:ugh::ugh: Double Headbang!

[alfred_the_great]

Not what I'd heard, AtG. The current CJO is apparently in favour of broad (ie Cyprus and Gulf) SHADER recognition, and it is the Chiefs of Staff Committee which has been the blockage recently. I can't imagine it would be CDS, CAS or 1SL causing the difficulty...


But amazingly, no recognition for the RN and RAF engaged in the hard graft in the Gulf for the last 20+ years (s/fast Air Ops Iraq and TELIC).

But yes, I can imagine the Pongos not liking the fact there is medallic recognition for anything other than Infantry operations.

[gijoe]

But amazingly, no recognition for the RN and RAF engaged in the hard graft in the Gulf for the last 20+ years (s/fast Air Ops Iraq and TELIC).

But yes, I can imagine the Pongos not liking the fact there is medallic recognition for anything other than Infantry operations.

AtG - way, way off of the mark re the British Army.

[Melchett01]

But amazingly, no recognition for the RN and RAF engaged in the hard graft in the Gulf for the last 20+ years (s/fast Air Ops Iraq and TELIC.

I have to say I've never really understood why time at the CAOC in AUD was never recognised. Especially as when the CAOC was based in Saudi it qualified for the Air Ops Iraq clasp, and arguably a far lower tempo than we see these days. And before anyone asks, I've never done a CAOC tour so there's no self-interest other than curiosity at a slightly odd decision given the precedent.

[Beancountercymru]

Getting back to the list...

What's the story here?

Queen's Commendation for Bravery in the Air (QCB)
Corporal Antony Luke COLLINS

[alfred_the_great]

AtG - way, way off of the mark re the British Army.


I have an email from a senior British Army Officer denying that there was sufficient risk and rigor for medallic recognition operating off Syria whilst chemical weapons and ASCMs were present ashore.

But f*ck me, the Army go to do some STTT in northern Iraq, and suddenly we all need a "SHADER" medal...

[Chinny Crewman]

Any links to the citations or can anyone shed any light on them?

[LTLFTP]

Any links to the citations or can anyone shed any light on them?

Only one so far from the RAF Facebook page

"Squadron Leader Roger Cruickshank has been awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross in the Operational Honours List 2017 for his strong leadership in the fight against Da'esh in Iraq.

On May 27 2016, while leading a Typhoon formation, Squadron Leader Cruickshank conducted successful strikes against multiple hostile targets, with repeated exposure to Da’esh anti-aircraft systems. He showed phenomenally quick-thinking, supreme technical knowledge and sheer determination to successfully destroy enemy targets while his formation ran critically low on fuel, nevertheless, he still managed to achieve the mission and get his formation safely back to base.

Speaking about the Honour, Squadron Leader Cruickshank said: “I am very humbled to receive this honour and feel proud to have even been nominated in the first place. However, I sincerely feel that I was just doing my job and in the right place, at the right time.

I have benefited from a supreme training system which set me up to deal with the task I was faced with and feel fortunate to have been given the confidence to cope.

Finally, I must stress that it is hugely down to the team as a whole, the engineers, the survival equipment personnel, the operations staff and many others, who all ensured that I was indeed in the right place, at the right time and able to save the lives of allied personnel on the ground.”"