No jets!

[the_flying_cop]

Having spent the last 10 days at my humble Scottish holiday home, I'm disappointed not to have seen/heard a single jet. A far cry from the F1-11's et al from the 80's who used to rattle my chimney pots.

Please can you fix this, I'm here til Sunday.

Pm for a location/grid :)

[Willard Whyte]

Sorry, this has to be done:

It's (or rather was) the F-111.

[the_flying_cop]

My apologies, yes the F-111, it was a long time ago in my defence.

[Fareastdriver]

That was when air forces had aeroplanes; now they just have simulators.

[blimey]

I saw one Tucano today during a very long drive up t'North :{

[Dan Gerous]

Just spent 2 days in the Moffat and seen naff all. :(

[JAVELINBOY]

Wednesday late afternoon treated to a C17 from direction of Cardiff heading towards Severn Bridges lowish and slowish. Week before a Jet Provost heading for Swansea makes a change from all the Civil stuff out of Cardiff and Bristol and the Police Helicopter.

[Herod]

a Jet Provost heading for Swansea makes a change from all the Civil stuff

Err. Either it was civil, or we've entered a time warp. Nice though.

[Thrust Augmentation]

Grew up in a bottleneck in LFA 14 in the 70's / 80's & it was the almost daily activity that gave me an interest in military aviation. Back then there wasn't much from the western / allied inventories that I didn't see, from Gnat's to B-52's & everything in between - even occasional US carrier birds.

From my humble Scottish home (no holiday involved) things have been exceptionally quiet for a number of years now & only seem to have gotten more so since the GR4 left Lossie. A couple of Typhoons or Tornadoes maybe once or twice a week, a C-130 once a fortnight & possibly the odd hawk, Tucano or F-15 pair once a month at most are about all there is now...... Highlights in the last year have been a couple of A400M flights & an exceptional low Voyager


At least the incoming SAR S-92's from Inverness, Prestwick & Stornoway are something to see on a regular basis.

[Royalistflyer]

Sitting in my study on the north shore of the Holy Loch, every now and again a large RAF transport aircraft will come by at around 200 feet and around 200 knots on a low level exercise. Since my study is itself at around 200 feet above the loch and these aircraft are no more than 300 yards away - I get a side level view - its fun. The latest was an A400M - a very impressive flypast. So I'm afraid Flying Cop - you're in the wrong bit of Scotland.

[Parson]

Lived in the back of beyond SW of Aberdeen in the early 90s. Early morning peace and tranquillity regularly disrupted by low flying Buccs. Didn't mind really.

[Martin the Martian]

Hmm, in 1990 the RAF had three Tornado GR.1 wings (Marham, Honington and (sort of) Cottesmore), three Tornado F.3 wings (Leuchars, Coningsby and Leeming) and one each of Jaguars, Harriers, Buccaneers and Phantoms in the UK alone, as well as three training establishments with Hawks. Add to that the Royal Navy Sea Harrier squadrons and the USAFE presence of two A-10 wings and two F-111 wings, and there were rather a lot more fast jets around then.

The equivalent now is three RAF wings (2x Tiffie, 1x Tornado), one Hawk training establishment and one US F-15 wing.:{

[Bob Viking]

I realise I bang the same old drum all the time but talking purely in terms of numbers of FJs does not paint the whole picture. I loved the Jag and would fly it again in a heartbeat but a single Typhoon can carry the payload of a four ship of Jags and self defend. Modern weapons are also far more accurate then they were even in 1990.

I know most people on this forum love to reminisce about the past and how much better it was but the current RAF is really not as bad as many make it out to be. A frontline RAF of seven Typhoon Sqns and some F35s (maybe one maybe two Sqns) to replace the still very capable GR4s may not make for brilliant flypasts over Buckingham palace but is still bloody capable. I'm not mentioning Reaper since I'm purely talking in terms of FJs but it also plays a big part nowadays.

I love flying at low level as well but as much as I hate to admit it it's just not as necessary now as it was a few years back. Modern FJs don't need to be down there to do their job. It's a crying shame and I would happily tool around at low level until I'm old and grey but it's just not the way of the world any more.

The price of progress I'm afraid.

BV

[longer ron]

Out sailing with friends today on Loch Earn - we had a Tuc low flyby,a Typhoon low tight turn,A Gyrocopter flyby and an Air Ambulance chopper flyover - noisy bu66ers :)

[the_flying_cop]

I'm not dissing the capability of our favourite service, I was just saying how quiet it has become. I've been coming up here for near on 37 years now and never seen it so quiet. Last year we had a few hawks up the valley, and a couple of hercs at LL round and about.

As a young teen, I used to look forward to coming up here, seeing Jags, Harriers, Tornado, hawks, and some very low F-111's. Now i love coming up here for different reasons, but I can't help looking skyward for even the slightest suggestion of something flying past.

My only thing of interest to report was last November, when what i suspect to be an A400 flew over me at LL as i came through Tebay on the M6. I say suspect as all i saw were the nav lights :)

BV, i completely understand the abilities of these new airframes, and the lack of need to skim the hedges, it just doesn't make for the same spectacle :) cheers.

[The_hippie]

Haven't had owt military over Barnsley for 20 years.
We used to have all sorts over when I was at school. A-10's were ten a penny lining up on the pit as an aiming marker.

[Tankertrashnav]

In the days of the old low level route in 1970 I once took my unsuspecting wife to Aysgarth Falls in North Yorks as it was a noted beauty spot. Having just done a low level nav course on JPs I knew it was also a turning point on said route. Spent a happy couple of hours sitting in the sun as a succession of aircraft including Vulcans, Buccs, JPs and even the odd Varsity passed overhead at 500' heading South, with the wife remarking that there seemed to be a lot of aircraft around today!

[westernhero]

Living in the middle of the Midlands we have a very vanilla flavoured sight of military flying, F-15s either going East - West from LK to the land of my fathers for a spot of low level or going home again vice versa and that's yer lot, apart from the odd Wokka. If the Yanks packed up and went home it might be years before I'd see a military aircraft around here again.

[Wyler]

The latest platforms are indeed far more capable and therefore numbers are not the issue.
However, the more bells and whistles you put on something the more likely it is to break.
10 jets on the ground does not mean 10 jets available.
Capable yes, more reliable? Not so sure.

[superplum]

Watched two F-35 platforms descending into L'heath yesterday afternoon - didn't take long though, then back to mowing.

:ok:
:cool:

[ORAC]

A Typhoon may indeed be able to carry the load of 4 Jags, but it can't be in 4 places at one time, and in the AD role that is equally important if you have 4 single targets - or get involved in 1x4 as opposed to 4x4 dogfight.

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

Equally you may not need to be at low level to do your job, but it makes ingressing against an S-400 SAM unit a lot easier, especially when you don't have supporting stand-off or escort EW and HARM.

Worked in the UKCAOC when we did 2 different plans during an exercise to attack a target in an unspecified country. The first involved a COMAO of about 30 aircraft involving the above plus sweep, AAR, E-3 etc. The second was a 4 ship of GR1s at low level on a moonless night all by themselves. The GR1 planner knew exactly which option he preferred.

[Sandy Parts]

ah but ORAC, did the Operational Analysts say which one would have 'met the aim'?
Agree with most here though, strength in numbers! Facts are modern assets cost lots and we can't afford/won't prioritise lots...We also have to train for the 'current war' so sitting up above the hard-deck waiting for a target to pop-up doesn't lead to exciting low-level wanging around the valleys. Would be nice to do I guess but priority must be to practice the skills needed for current Ops first.

[ORAC]

The approved solution, generally ignored, is to equip and train for the next war, not the last one....

[blimey]

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

Especially if it's flown by good operators and carrying modern munitions.

[tartare]

...and never, ever wang below 250 feet. ;)

[just another jocky]

A Typhoon may indeed be able to carry the load of 4 Jags, but it can't be in 4 places at one time, and in the AD role that is equally important if you have 4 single targets - or get involved in 1x4 as opposed to 4x4 dogfight.

Quantity has a quality all of its own.

Equally you may not need to be at low level to do your job, but it makes ingressing against an S-400 SAM unit a lot easier, especially when you don't have supporting stand-off or escort EW and HARM.

Worked in the UKCAOC when we did 2 different plans during an exercise to attack a target in an unspecified country. The first involved a COMAO of about 30 aircraft involving the above plus sweep, AAR, E-3 etc. The second was a 4 ship of GR1s at low level on a moonless night all by themselves. The GR1 planner knew exactly which option he preferred.


And the GR4 can do it "silently" too ORAC whereas the GR1 TFR & GMR could be detected....


And for the rest of you....I get tired of folk who are not IN the service now stating how much better they were in the past. In the most recent conflicts, the GR4 and FGR4 have performed superbly (and reliably), much, much better than previous aircraft could have done. There is little to suggest the F35 wont take over the GR4s mantle and perform better still. By the same logic, the RAF of WWII was 'better' than the RAF of the 60s/70s/80s because of their numbers :ugh:.


But that wont stop the old whiners who don't know the current RAF.


End of Friday morning rant! :E

[safetypee]

No jets; two Tornados managed to get lost behind the Malvern Hills on Thursday. There was semblance of close range combat, but more like a tail chase on either side of the circle - get into the vertical!

Alternatively perhaps they were playing for someone else - Malvern.

Please return asap and use some burner; the apple blossom is in danger of frost damage and air heating is required to protect this years cider harvest.

[Pontius Navigator]

You don't have to be in the wilds of Scotland not to see military aircraft. Sitting a couple of miles from a secret Typhoon base it is pretty quiet too.

Saw an RJ low level (5k) eastbound this week, a Typhoon landing last week, 3 Tucs going same way same week the week before and two Osprey. The Osprey is the only type we see and feel twice a week. Not even a Spit, Hurri, Lanc or Dak.

[thunderbird7]

And for the rest of you....I get tired of folk who are not IN the service now stating how much better they were in the past......But that wont stop the old whiners who don't know the current RAF....End of Friday morning rant! :E

Aaaah! But to be fair to the OP, the RAF of the past was SOOOOO much better at entertaining the public by wazzing over their heads in the boonies or on road journeys! Because there were so much more of them/us! :ok:

[Sandy Parts]

just another jocky - calm down dear :) Don't think those of us 'out' are saying we were 'better' in the past (at least I wasn't). Just saying that the modern option is 'less of more' i.e. smaller amounts of more capable stuff. Therefore as thunderbird says - less to see (and less to inspire the next generation of flyers?). As to always 'fighting the last war', my points were designed to say we are still fighting the current war (hello to all those reading on the welfare terminals in locations east of UK...).

[Alan Baker]

Of course the problem with the "Typhoon does the job of four Jaguars" argument is that if you shoot one down you've lost the equivalent of four aircraft!

[Bob Viking]

Alan.

Agreed. However, you've got to try a damn sight harder to shoot down a Typhoon (air to air or air to ground) than you would have a Jaguar or one of its contemporaries.

Remember I'm a Jag mate. I love the jet and would happily have kept flying it when it went out of service but I can see progress as a positive thing.

BV