Old F@rts

[Apple Tree Yard]

Back in 1998/99, the company introduced a special scheme to induce the more senior pilots (read: expensive) to take early retirement. I think it was called VSS. With all the focus on 'cost cutting', why not offer another similar scheme to clear out the last of the old f@rts that are still here? Two birds with one stone. :D

[Oasis]

Great Idea, but the last ones are not here for the money....

[AQIS Boigu]

Early retirement to become a Senior Sim Instructor...

[Yonosoy Marinero]

That may just be the fleet that I'm on, but many of these old farts are actually quite pleasant gentlemen and very nice to fly with.

Or is someone desperate for an upgrade?

[motley flight crue]

The 'old farts' are entitled to a career as well, not just move aside for little punks like you to get a command and sit in the left for 30 years. Maybe you concentrate on doing what your paid for... support the captain. Your turn will come, until then show some respect to the oldies. You may learn something that you haven't read in a book.

[MENELAUS]

And vas was ****. 6 months pay. Or was it a year ?

[Sam Ting Wong]

Old f@rts ( read : B scaler), have a good look at this post.

This is one of the guys you sacrificed your payrise and housing extension for at the last vote.

Congrats!
Well done!

[ExSp33db1rd]

.... the last of the old f@rts .......

but of course, you'll NEVER become an Old F@rt - will you ?

Old F@rts Unite ! It's the Young F@rts that are ruining the World !

[Average Fool]

B Scalers are the old farts now?

[Freehills]

Well, B scalers have been around for 24 years now, so yeah.

[Dan Winterland]

Lets get rid of the B scalers so the C scalers can have it all. Then the company can introduce the D scale in the perpetual race to the bottom!

[Apple Tree Yard]

Um, guys...I am one of the old farts. Obviously the irony was lost in my post. I want them to pay me off so I can leave this clown show. :ugh:

[cxorcist]

You didn't lose me, ATY, but why would CX pay you to leave when they are short of pilots? Are you inferring that there will be a significant down-sizing?

[Captain Dart]

They were short of pilots when they imposed sign/be fired/VSS in 99. The pilots had to be seen to be 'taking one for the team' and I would not be surprised to see it again from this lot.

If they offered a reasonable Voluntary Separation package now, I would be up there to sign it so fast, I would meet myself coming back.

[boxjockey]

You didn't lose me, ATY, but why would CX pay you to leave when they are short of pilots? Are you inferring that there will be a significant down-sizing?

That's the rumor. Around 15% or so.... Be AFRAAAAAAIIIDDD!!!

[Scoreboard]

Laugh out loud so they have to throw out the c scale spiky hair group before the old farts....last in first out.....if its 15% over staffed

[Liam Gallagher]

Does anyone recall what the terms of VSS were? If it's enough, I might call Noel and reform the band.

[ACMS]

Yawn...........unless I win Tatts I'm sorry but I'm not going anywhere better soon. I'm not about to reach the top of those crap incremental pay tables to suddenly up stumps and go elsewhere.....

So suck it up, we've all been where you young Top Guns are, your turn will come soon enough believe me.

[Sam Ting Wong]

The only "special scheme" the company needs to terminate old ( or young) farts is a posted letter and 3 month notice.

Which is why it would have been better to accept a pay offer when it was on the table.

I told you so.

[main_dog]

That "payrise" came with onerous strings attached... the membership clearly decided it wasn't worth it.

You can disagree or "told you so" as much as you like, but it doesn't change the basic facts of a democratically taken decision.

[MACH.88]

Agreed with above. STW stop being so defeatist, it just plays to the company and fence sitters.

[Progress Wanchai]

The only "special scheme" the company needs to terminate old ( or young) farts is a posted letter and 3 month notice.

Which is why it would have been better to accept a pay offer when it was on the table.

I told you so.


In fact STW/Paul,
By being in industrial action it actually suspends COS clause 35.3 as per the GFBAF. So if job protection is what you're after (which being months away from retirement you're obviously not) then the status quo is a safe position to be in until the dust settles.
While they've been prepared to sack officers illegally before, I just don't see the current management wanting another 10 years of unfair dismissal claims. The ground has shifted. CX is no longer the flavor of the month in Hong Kong. The 49ers fiasco will look like a well managed strategy compared to a similar company action now.

[Sam Ting Wong]

You can twist it as you like, it was wrong to reject the offer.

You know it, I know it, the company knows it.

[Captain Dart]

Three months' notice anytime (or the turnstile not letting you in to Hello Kitty City- it's been done) or not, they still offered VSS in '99. Six months' salary for 40 pilots from what I remember; I am open to correction. The offer was over-subscribed.

STW, haven't you made enough money by voluntarily training hundreds of our cheap replacements and diluting our contract and bargaining position?

[jonathon68]

My memory is a bit hazy so I may be incorrect on the following.

VSS was 1 months salary per year of service or 3 months salary per years remaining until retirement, whichever was less.

Some guys got approximately 1.5 years pay out of the deal. Most got about a years pay.

They were able to elect to work until the end of that year, or leave as early as possible.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

why are we even discussing this? Cathay can't afford more early retirements

[Sam Ting Wong]

Why do you guys have this constant desire for wild abstract theories, grand philosophical discussions about wages for managers vs workers or other moral debates????

Can't you guys be ( just once!) be practical???

It is what it is.

The company has announced a cost cutting program.

Is it fair? Reasonable? Who cares!!!

We will not get the same offer again, we might possibly face cuts, we are losing out as we speak. Period.

I told you so.


PS Captain Dart, I am not a trainer, and never was. Nevertheless, I do not blame anyone in training for our own failures to sign a pay increase when the sun was still shining.

[mr did]

Paul, you were a trainer for years.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Why should I lie on an anonymous forum??? Insane!

I AM NOT PAUL !!!!!!!!

I don't even know who that is!

[cxorcist]

STW is a cadet FO on the 747. He is a nice enough guy, but not especially bright. No offense, but somebody has to round out the bell curve.

[Runnymede]

Captain Chesley 'Sully' Sullenberger

Your quintessential ....... 'Old Fart'

Well trained, ex military with an exemplary service record.

Understands through IQ and experience, the value of excellent training and CRM. Becomes an expert in field well before 2009.

Joins Pacific Southwest Airlines in 1980 and gets restructured, re-branded and basically screwed from the start of his Airline career till he ends it himself in 2010.......He is frank in his disdain for airline management over those years, citing the damage done to both airlines and crew alike!

Never looses his cool.......

- The young crowd who flock to join CX on 'local' terms are 'enjoying' the results of THEIR decision to join on such deplorable conditions.......that by the way, WE Old Farts are trying to improve.......for the real needs and benefit of everyone!

- Suggesting that us Old Farts @ CX should now leave to make way for younger talent, is rude, ignorant, self serving, short sighted and will dilute the experience quotient within our cockpits even further than management have already deleteriously done so, in their manic chasing of lower costs / more profit / by any means / under any pretext / using any and all excuses and justifications!

208 seconds

[raven11]

Runnymede,
I wish there was a "like" button for your post.

[MENELAUS]

Like button. Runners. Pushing that like button

[cxorcist]

Correct Runnymede!

While not an "old fart" yet, I'm certainly sandwiched below them and above our new generation of snowflakes. My goal is to emulate the good "old farts" while staying relatable to the millennial snowflakes, since they are the future CRM challenges. More reliance on automation will certainly be the standard as flying skills and solid backgrounds become more rare.

Many snowflakes simply didn't get any reasonable pre-CX experience. They think flying airplanes is about button pushing and dial spinning with the occasional padlock onto the flight directors at the expense of all else.

That said, some of the more experienced pilots don't do much better. Many of us have become very soft in our own entitlement, contrary to our backgrounds and sources of pride. "Old Farts" would do well to bring their thicker skin to work while snowflakes should be eating humble pie with a big steaming cup of STFU.

[Shep69]

Excellent Runner.

I'm personally baffled by any proposition that sacking a bunch of minions can in any way help an organization whose profits have been blown by a boss betting poorly at the track (metaphorically speaking). Just doesn't make sense or address the root cause of the issues and seems, frankly, insane.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Just doesn't make sense or address the root cause of the issues and seems, frankly, insane.

NOTHING this bunch (of managers) do, or plan, makes any sense.

They ignore trends when they should address them.
They cut back when they should expand.
They cloister when they should engage.
It goes on. And on. And on.

Almost everything they do is a model of what NOT to do. Their "strategy" (if there is one) is 180° out of synchronization with trends, industry practice and common sense.

A new manager's M.O. is to do NOTHING that could rock the boat or risk a change, hanging on for dear life in a position they neither understand nor enjoy, just long enough to move on up the corporate ladder and reap the benefits of head office bonuses and a cushy life in the Cotswolds.

[cxorcist]

A new manager's M.O. is to do NOTHING that could rock the boat or risk a change, hanging on for dear life in a position they neither understand nor enjoy, just long enough to move on up the corporate ladder and reap the benefits of head office bonuses and a cushy life in the Cotswolds.

And therein lies 90% (or more) of the problem. This truth is all prospective employees or shareholders need to know. That's why very little ever changes at CX until it's a crisis.

[goathead]

Perhaps some of these old farts can start showing some gumption and withdrawing there support as members of the training department.

[broadband circuit]

Perhaps some of these old farts can start showing some gumption and withdrawing there support as members of the training department.

+1 for you, kind sir!

[Oasis]

Starting with the AOA president.

[Captain Dart]

Couldn't agree more.

[MENELAUS]

Yes moral high ground is a wonderful thing, especially when you're perched atop of it. One can hardly expect your invocation to not join/ upgrade or ask for denial of third party training to succeed if you're doing it yourself.

[Oasis]

Lead by example. With great power comes great responsibility.

Uncle Ben taught me that.

[MENELAUS]

Uncle Ben ? The rice people ?

[Oasis]

Yea, with the the power of white rice, comes great responsibility!

No I meant this guy:

https://images.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_470,q_auto:good,w_620/don-t-want-to-see-another-dead-uncle-ben-jpeg-262940.jpg

never forget.

[MENELAUS]

Sorry. I've forgotten!!

[oriental flyer]

Memory loss It's a function of being an old fart

[Oasis]

Yet, they have forgotten more than you will ever know ;-)

[Apple Tree Yard]

...how many flights did you call in sick for....? :hmm:

[XFR8]

Yet another FH thread descends into mudslinging Farce

[4runner]

In the US, we call them SNAP's. Sensitive, New Aged Pilots. We smack them around and send them for "rug dances" with a crusty Chief Pilot if they get too uppetty. PS, I'm in my mid 30's. I've done a few dances myself.

[Langata]

Well said Anotherday!