FAA ATP - CASA ATPL (specific info on the overseas conversion exam.)

[tail low]

Hi.

Looking to try and obtain a CASA ATPL. I already hold a CASA CPL with Instrument rating & also a FAA ATP.

Looking in the website I note that it could be possible to convert with

1) CASA ATPL Human Factors
2) CASA ATPL Overseas Conversion Exam
3) CASA ATPL Flight Test

After advice from someone who has been through this process specifically -

What is included in the conversion exam and is there one point study material available? What is the best way to go about flight test? Assume King Air or similar would be the smallest / cheapest option? (unfortunately not already rated.) Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. CASA info pasted below for reference.

Regards - Tail Low.

ATPL

A holder of a valid foreign ATPL licence that has been issued by an ICAO Contracting State, may convert this licence to an Australian ATPL, by passing a two-part exam (each to be attempted separately), namely:

The ATPL Human Factors exam (AHUF) and
The ATPL overseas conversion exam (either AOSA or AOSH).
The parts must be passed within a prescribed period of time, referred to as a ‘window’.

Note: The issue of an Australian ATPL(A) includes within it a multi-engine instrument rating. To gain an Australian instrument rating, you must first pass the CASA Instrument Rating exam (code IREX). The Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC) is incorporated with your ATPL(A) flight test. If you already hold an Australian Instrument Rating, the ATPL flight test is taken to meet the requirements of the Instrument Proficiency Check.

The candidate shall contact CASA directly for assistance on the booking. The candidate may apply to CASA in writing by email ([email protected]) or by normal mail to the address below:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority
(Attn: Flight Crew Licensing - Special booking for Overseas Licence Conversion Exams)
PO Box 2005
CANBERRA ACT 2601

Important: Overseas candidates who plan to attempt the aeroplane overseas ATPL conversion exam must allow for the time involved in the correct sequencing of the air law part-exams and the possibility of failing one or more of the exams. CASA has mandatory re-training period which may prevent a candidate from booking an examination after having failed the same subject,three or more times.

The re-training period is a safety-related requirement therefore CASA will NOT reduce it on the basis of the overseas candidate having to leave Australia prior to the completion of the re-training period. If the candidate has an urgent requirement to leave Australia before passing the exams, then he/she should plan to re-sit the exam(s) on his/her return to Australia.

The candidate is personally responsible for taking these factors into account in the planning of his/her own availability for the exams.

[ersa]

TailLow, get hold of these people Overseas Convert | Advanced Flight Theory (http://aft.com.au/cms/?page_id=125)

As for the flying a skills test using an IFR machine

[tail low]

Thanks' for that. Will fire them a message. So the flight test can be done in any IFR machine? Does not need to be over a certain weight?

[Tutifruity]

I have just gone through this process. For the low price of 24 000AUD, to include a kingair type rating that i did not need. Never mind that Casa claims you dont need to be type rated to do the test.

I checked with the only other provider for this ATPL test, and they offer its in a mustang sim for close to 18000 AUD

The test itself was similar to an IFR check, with some Multicrew scenario thrown in there.

A very costly and unneccessary exercise that was not thought through. Took me about 8 months to get this organised, i believe its a bit faster.

Although casa claim they will assist you to get an examiner. It will be at your own cost to move them around. And thats if they even bother to respond to you at all. It takes several email, calls and out office responses to get any information out of them .

Big joke.

[aus_aviatior]

Sorry to hear of your predicament. I am currently going through the same process, unfortunately, this is how it is:
Sit the conversion exams, HPL and AOSA (overseas conversion exam), that's easy enough, HPL is about a weeks study, AOSA around 2 weeks.
The flight test is the real conundrum.
As stated above, it has to be in a multi-crew machine, like a Metro, SAAB 340, 737 etc. This adds an enormous cost to everything.
Furthermore, there are certain training requirements that need to be met, these are found in MOS Part 61, Vol 2, Sch 2...GOOD LUCK FIGURING OUT WHAT THEY ARE! This document is very hard to make sense of!
*Note* This part is usually part of a command upgrade process with an Airline, but if you're an individual wanting an aussie ATPL, you'll be paying to do an extra session on top of your test (assuming you're already type rated).
The requirements for the test itself are found in MOS Part 61 Vol 4 Sch 5, as stated elsewhere on this forum, it's pretty much just like an IFR renewal, and simple enough to follow.
So, in summary:
Sit 2 exams
Do training sim
Sit flight test

Extra requirements may be:
Complete type rating in Multi-Crew aircraft

If anyone has figured out the secret to success with this process, please share!

P.S if anyone from CASA reads this, please please do what they do in the US and let us sit it in a baron or something like that!

[Aloha_KSA]

Just did he whole shebang in B737-300 with Ansett. Defo need two crew turbine, doesn't have to be 737. Hardest part was securing a sim slot. Before you spend the $ and time on the exams, I'd get (1) the aircraft bit nailed down, and (2) find a willing CASA examiner. Otherwise, you may be better off going to NZ, taking ONE test and doing the flight test there, then do TTMRA to get your Aussie ATPL sorted. I tried to organize the CASA examiner to sit in on my 737NG sim, which a fellow at QF was going to organize for me, but holy, moly. Scheduling was like waiting for a solar eclipse. For one thing, CASA doesn't work at night. As for the tests, I did the ATPL-LAW, IREX, and Human Factors. Easy to organize through ASPEQ, especially as you already have an ARN. Did two tests at Bankstown, and one at Frankton, Vic. For materials, you can try to muddle through it all on your own, or pay for a course. I used Rob Avery's course (Avfacts - Pilot Training Products (http://www.avfacts.com.au/)) for mine. Was not cheap, but neither is failing, and I don't have the motivation to organize everything myself that I once did. I printed out and bound everything that I was legally allowed to print and bring with. Didn't need it all, but didn't want to risk not having the one thing I might need. If you are already familiar with the CAO's, CAR's, and the rest of the hodge-podge of disorganized regulatory word soup that comprises the regs, then you are well ahead of the game. If not, spend some time highlighting and use as many sticky note (tabs) as are legally allowed. I actually learned a few things in the process. For example, I now know that if I cross an NDB and I'm precisely X degrees off course for Y minutes that I shouldn't be flying an aircraft, because I'm so busy looking at my watch and too cheap to buy a GPS that I'm now going to have to do algebra to get myself back on course.

[Fawaz]

Hi mates hope you all did well
i have couple of questions as am looking forward to covert ICAO ATPL to CASA ATPL

do you guys have any reference or question babk to study to prepare for this 2 paper exams ?? Would really appreciate any feedback or a study materials




Just did he whole shebang in B737-300 with Ansett. Defo need two crew turbine, doesn't have to be 737. Hardest part was securing a sim slot. Before you spend the $ and time on the exams, I'd get (1) the aircraft bit nailed down, and (2) find a willing CASA examiner. Otherwise, you may be better off going to NZ, taking ONE test and doing the flight test there, then do TTMRA to get your Aussie ATPL sorted. I tried to organize the CASA examiner to sit in on my 737NG sim, which a fellow at QF was going to organize for me, but holy, moly. Scheduling was like waiting for a solar eclipse. For one thing, CASA doesn't work at night. As for the tests, I did the ATPL-LAW, IREX, and Human Factors. Easy to organize through ASPEQ, especially as you already have an ARN. Did two tests at Bankstown, and one at Frankton, Vic. For materials, you can try to muddle through it all on your own, or pay for a course. I used Rob Avery's course (Avfacts - Pilot Training Products (http://www.avfacts.com.au/)) for mine. Was not cheap, but neither is failing, and I don't have the motivation to organize everything myself that I once did. I printed out and bound everything that I was legally allowed to print and bring with. Didn't need it all, but didn't want to risk not having the one thing I might need. If you are already familiar with the CAO's, CAR's, and the rest of the hodge-podge of disorganized regulatory word soup that comprises the regs, then you are well ahead of the game. If not, spend some time highlighting and use as many sticky note (tabs) as are legally allowed. I actually learned a few things in the process. For example, I now know that if I cross an NDB and I'm precisely X degrees off course for Y minutes that I shouldn't be flying an aircraft, because I'm so busy looking at my watch and too cheap to buy a GPS that I'm now going to have to do algebra to get myself back on course.

[Bodie1]

I'm told you don't need a flight test to convert your FAA ATP to CASA ATPL. Ring Alan at Gawne Aviation.

[Climb150]

I'm told you don't need a flight test to convert your FAA ATP to CASA ATPL. Ring Alan at Gawne Aviation.
Well then someone is telling you lies.

[Bodie1]

Well then someone is telling you lies.

Like I said, Ring Alan, I believe he's assisted a few fellows in converting.

[Mach E Avelli]

Be careful. Don’t get sucked in to swapping another ICAO ATPL for an Aussie CPL. If you do that you will be stuck with completing the whole upgrade process including all theory subjects and the initial flight test in a multi crew aircraft or simulator.
If you have the requisite experience, a direct conversion completing the exams listed on the CASA website is the way to go. I believe the flight test requirement in a multi crew type needs further investigation.
For an initial issue - ie upgrading from a CPL - there is no way to avoid this. But converting an ATPL issued by another ICAO Contracting State could be possible by doing an IR MEA in a suitable light twin. I say ‘could’ because the CASA website is vague on this. So Bodie may be correct. There was a time when the ATPL test could be done in the old King Air simulator in Melbourne. It had to be done as a multi crew operation, so procedures were developed to work around the fact that a King Air is certified single pilot. The amount of flying needed to pass the test varied from one practice session for experienced King Air pilots to about five sessions for those coming from unpressurized piston twins. That simulator is no longer approved for the test, however precedent to use the King Air (no longer a Type Rating) exists. It won't be cheap, but probably less than a full Type Rating in something more complex.
To claim entitlement to a direct conversion is worth a try. You would certainly need proof of prior experience in Part 121 or equivalent transport operations, as CASA woke up years ago to pilots going overseas for a ‘quickie’ ATP (because they were too thick to pass the local exams) then coming home to swap it.

[Capt Fathom]

CASA woke up years ago to pilots going overseas for a ‘quickie’ ATP (because they were too thick to pass the local exams) then coming home to swap it.

I recall this happening as far back as the 70’s and included some DCA Examiners, mostly being ex military, Who didn’t have the time or inclination to do the four SCPL exams. So off to the USA (Hawaii was popular) to get an FAA ATPL, which basically entailed the equivalent of an Instrument Rating test in a Baron. Then converted to a SCPL back in Australia, no more questions asked. (Only Airline Pilots could hold an ATPL back then). The good old days. :}

[Climb150]

Too thick to pass Aussie ATPL exams? You mean the exams that ask you to work out off track unpressurized gear down 1 inop PNR? Cause that's relevant in today's world.

The US ATP exam may be easy but the 6 hour oral before the checkride isn't. That's when you get asked real questions about real situations that may arise.

But you know, Australian pilots are so much better than Americans because they did seven exams for ATPL instead of one.

[Mach E Avelli]

Too thick to pass Aussie ATPL exams? You mean the exams that ask you to work out off track unpressurized gear down 1 inop PNR? Cause that's relevant in today's world.

The US ATP exam may be easy but the 6 hour oral before the checkride isn't. That's when you get asked real questions about real situations that may arise.

But you know, Australian pilots are so much better than Americans because they did seven exams for ATPL instead of one.

Where did we claim to be better? I have a lot of time for the USA licencing system, but I have met some pretty dull yank pilots who held an ATP but would never make it in an airline. Anyone can pass a multi choice exam simply by rote learning the extensive question banks on offer at various flight schools. I did it in a day with no preparation or study by the simple process of elimination and scraped a minimum pass first go. The ATP flight test in a Duchess is a joke. At the very least they should require something a little more complex, such as a King Air.
I do agree that a proper FAA check ride can certainly be a work out, but the quality of training and standard of checking varies enormously. A mate did a B737 Classic Type Rating 'on the cheap' in the USA a few years ago. It was his first jet, and in training he never touched the FMS and barely got near the automatics. He could not pass a simple IPC back here.

If you think there is irrelevant material in today's CASA exams you should have done the old SCPL subjects. Mercator Sailing and pressure pattern flying questions persisted even though the Flight Navigator was fast disappearing. Or calculating when the sun would rise as you flew westbound at 400 knots.
Some of the Pommy ATPL subjects were even more difficult and/or irrelevant. Sketching the innards of a cathode ray tube, theory and diagram of Decca Chain, write 400 words on the annual movement of the ITCZ and its effect on the climate in India (with diagrams) etc.

The point of these difficult exams is not only to impart some knowledge (albeit not all essential) but to weed out those who have difficulty grasping new and complex concepts. A pilot wishing to progress through different types on the way to the Big One will be on the receiving end of various examinations for an entire career.

[LostWanderer]

Too thick to pass Aussie ATPL exams? You mean the exams that ask you to work out off track unpressurized gear down 1 inop PNR? Cause that's relevant in today's world.

The US ATP exam may be easy but the 6 hour oral before the checkride isn't. That's when you get asked real questions about real situations that may arise.

But you know, Australian pilots are so much better than Americans because they did seven exams for ATPL instead of one.

Agreed. As a holder of both I would not argue with anyone that the CASA ATPL is significantly harder to attain overall than FAA equivalent. Especially with those archaic exams CASA can’t seem to let go of...it is significantly more convoluted, unrealistic, ridiculous and pointless in the process than the way the yanks go about it. If someone can tell me the last time they pulled out the old whizz wheel and flight planned an RPT or ANY flight for that matter, in the recent past...well you would be one of the only ones on the planet and clearly have never heard of an iPad or the internet. I just don't buy any argument why CASA have not caught up with the times on this, there just is no good reason.

From memory my FAA oral when I did it some time ago was about 4.5 hours of realistic and challenging questions based on everything from weather to air law to alternate requirements and more, you really had to know your stuff to even get to the check ride. It was actually based on things that you need to know, will use in your career and is actually relevant to the operations you will be flying. Can't speak for others experiences recently or in the past in the US but you will always find some examiners (yep that includes here in Australia) will be a lot easier on you compared to another.

And sadly yes indeed there are plenty of Austronauts around who seem to believe Australia invented aviation, came across a few in my time overseas. Funnily enough never came across a single yank with that sort of attitude, very chilled bunch.

[Fawaz]

Agreed. As a holder of both I would not argue with anyone that the CASA ATPL is significantly harder to attain overall than FAA equivalent. Especially with those archaic exams CASA can’t seem to let go of...it is significantly more convoluted, unrealistic, ridiculous and pointless in the process than the way the yanks go about it. If someone can tell me the last time they pulled out the old whizz wheel and flight planned an RPT or ANY flight for that matter, in the recent past...well you would be one of the only ones on the planet and clearly have never heard of an iPad or the internet. I just don't buy any argument why CASA have not caught up with the times on this, there just is no good reason.

From memory my FAA oral when I did it some time ago was about 4.5 hours of realistic and challenging questions based on everything from weather to air law to alternate requirements and more, you really had to know your stuff to even get to the check ride. It was actually based on things that you need to know, will use in your career and is actually relevant to the operations you will be flying. Can't speak for others experiences recently or in the past in the US but you will always find some examiners (yep that includes here in Australia) will be a lot easier on you compared to another.

And sadly yes indeed there are plenty of Austronauts around who seem to believe Australia invented aviation, came across a few in my time overseas. Funnily enough never came across a single yank with that sort of attitude, very chilled bunch.

hi guys am looking forward to make a conversation for my ATPL to casa ATPL
would appreciate any feedback and question bank to prepare for these couple of exams i have found a website that they give a online course but it says questions in the exam wont be the same as the one on the site appreciate any help
thanks in advance

[Climb150]

hi guys am looking forward to make a conversation for my ATPL to casa ATPL
would appreciate any feedback and question bank to prepare for these couple of exams i have found a website that they give a online course but it says questions in the exam wont be the same as the one on the site appreciate any help
thanks in advance
There is no question bank of the actual questions, but ATPL theory schools have "practice" question banks that are very similar.

[manchi83]

Hi there!
I am trying to understand the costs involved in the conversion of my EASA ATP license to CASA ATP.Does anyone has updated information about how much money should I be prepared to spend?
I'm type rated on the 737, so I probably I am looking to do my practical exam on a 737 sim. Any suggestions are very welcome. Thank you guys