Which job? EZ vs NOR vs ME3

[OC Piztoff]

Let's say, hypothetically, that you had a job offer from EZ (based LGW), NOR (737 Max) and EK (on the 380).

Which employer do you go for?

All of the above would involve moving house for me, but this is no problem. Also not got any kids in school (yet!) so pretty flexible with where I can go.

I have no issue with living abroad (including the UAE- and yes, I know what it's like). Cost of living is important to me (hence my reluctance to commit to an LGW base). Money is pretty important to me, but then again so is spending time with friends and family.

Kind of want my next job move to be a more permanent one, rather than the job-hopping that I've been doing for the last 8-9 years.

Comments welcome!

[Enzo999]

That really is a question only you can answer. You say you want this to be long term move so the question you need to ask is can you live for a long period of time in the Middle East? For me the answer is simple NO! So I would choose EZ wait a while and get my command and then sit there fat dumb and happy for the rest of my career, only slight floor in that plan is you will never get a decent contract offer from them as an FO! If you can afford and are willing to accept a :mad: deal for a few years then EZ might work out. I know nothing about NOR so can't advice. Having worked for one of the other big 3 ME carriers wild horses would not drag me back, but if you can live with it then it has many benefits.

[dirk85]

I would choose EZY, then bid for a EU base or if UK is your thing a small base far from London. LGW not the best in terms of cost of life vs salary.

[FlipFlapFlop]

Tend to go with Enzo here. My choice would be EZ. EK would be fun and at least its Dubai and not Doha. NOR ? You must be joking.

[Snapper5]

Would choose Easy , the other 2 no way! Golden prison in the desert .
Maybe you should consider Thomson ? Crap starting conditions but MUCH better T&Cs than probably any airline

[harry the cod]

Snapper5

Think you work for spotty M if I'm not mistaken? Have you worked for NOR before? Ever crossed the Atlantic? Have you ever been to Doha, let alone lived there? Have you any experience of flying a wide body aircraft from Dubai to a destination 11 time zones away, from 32 degrees sunshine to -12 in +SN? How many layovers have you done in your career so far? How many cities in almost all the continents have you visited and experienced from the comfort of 4-5 star hotels? I'm not sure that the Luton Airport Holiday Inn Express counts.

The point being, advice has been asked, albeit hypothetically, regarding a possible career decision. One in which this individual would rather avoid moving again. Would that important advice therefore not be better coming from people that have at least some experience of those options, regardless of them being positive or negative.

What's the saying, "One man's poison is another man's pleasure".

[Snapper5]

Harry the Cod
Quite an explosion sir,
He wants advice -
I know people in Easy , BA and Emirates
Don't know anyone in NOR (only heard that it's not great )
Just sharing what I have heard ,
Your passion for EMIRATES is impressive do you work there ?

[bringbackthe80s]

Snapper5

Think you work for spotty M if I'm not mistaken? Have you worked for NOR before? Ever crossed the Atlantic? Have you ever been to Doha, let alone lived there? Have you any experience of flying a wide body aircraft from Dubai to a destination 11 time zones away, from 32 degrees sunshine to -12 in +SN? How many layovers have you done in your career so far? How many cities in almost all the continents have you visited and experienced from the comfort of 4-5 star hotels? I'm not sure that the Luton Airport Holiday Inn Express counts.

The point being, advice has been asked, albeit hypothetically, regarding a possible career decision. One in which this individual would rather avoid moving again. Would that important advice therefore not be better coming from people that have at least some experience of those options, regardless of them being positive or negative.

What's the saying, "One man's poison is another man's pleasure".


ahahahahahahah! someone needs some leave

[harry the cod]

Hardly an explosion and I too know people in those airlines. Not the same as experiencing them though, is it?

With the greatest of respect, perhaps advice from those that have actually experienced both sides of the long haul/short haul coin as well as having lived and worked as an expat might be better. You have no actually experience of any of those airlines he's asked about. You've even recommended one not on his list! That was my point.

bringbackthe80s

Too bloody right I need some leave!

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Of those 3 on the list it would have to be easyJet any day. Other options are available in the U.K. at the mo though.

[DarkSoldier]

only slight floor in that plan is you will never get a decent contract offer from them as an FO! If you can afford and are willing to accept a :mad: deal for a few years then EZ might work out.

Depends on experience. Going in as an SFO is not that bad a deal to be honest. Fixed roster (if you want it), good basic pay and conditions, etc...

[Black Pudding]

I think I would take EZ.

All depends on where you are now flying what and where do you live ?

I would recommend Thomas Cook and Thomson as my first choice in the UK.

[McBruce]

One look at the ME forum rules out the ME3 :}

EZ every time due to union/terms of the 3 listed.

[Giggey]

Only one have recognized Unions right? Well there you go......

[harry the cod]

I didn't realise that having union representation was the deciding factor in one's airline of choice. Was that the same BALPA union that supported senior Dan air Pilots in retaining their jobs because they were on the 'wrong' aircraft when BA bought the airline for £1? Was that the same union that fought tooth and nail to recovery the lost millions from the British Midland final salary pension? Was that the same union that thousands of pilots from independent UK airlines give their hard earned 1% each and every month to their Company Council to help support a few individuals who's goal is often more about their own career progression than the genuine concern of the pilot body?

Guess you learn something new every day on these forums.

[Snapper5]

Look out guys !! Looks as if Harry the Cod is on his way to the chippy

[McBruce]

Oh did you not - perhaps you should consider it :ok:

[RAT 5]

Let's say, hypothetically, that you had a job offer from EZ (based LGW), NOR (737 Max) and EK (on the 380). Which employer do you go for?

I'm going to consider this from another angle. Family will dictate much, of course, but...I would not expect any of these to be an employer for life; however EZ could be if you achieve the base you want, and like many who survive end up on a 75% or 50% roster in later life.
Assuming you don't expect to plant your roots permanently the question is which one will best enhance your career. It's not the employer it's the type in your licence: it's the type of flying you want. Do you want a family life of constant multi-sector short haul with a disruptive sleep pattern? Do you want ultra-longhaul with perhaps enough cash quickly to move on to what you really want, perhaps even part-time contract work? Always, unless you are in one of the national majors with a well known life style and possibilities of different career paths, it will be what ifs style you want and which type of a/c can allow you to have the maximum choice in the future. What kind of experience will make you the most valuable? then you can choose and be slightly more in control of your destiny.
Look beyond the next 5 years.

[harry the cod]

Snapper5

In over thirty years as a professional in this industry, I've been extremely fortunate not to have needed the full support from the union. Those that have been less fortunate in their careers, and there have been many, have often been greatly disappointed in the lack of power that 'their' union had when they really needed them.

Please don't get me wrong. There are some hard working individuals out there fighting for your cause and may get results at times. However, my experience is that the union is far less effective than many would hope for or like to believe. When the chips are really down, Companies do whatever they like, regardless of how many shots are fired across the bows.

It's your 1%. Do what you like with it. Just don't base an airline career purely on union recognition. Enzo999 & RAT 5 both offer good advice.

[HidekiTojo]

If you want to live in the UK then obviously go for easy.

If you want to wear a baseball cap and be all hip and cool but on a really :mad: contract with constant uncertainty then go to Norwegian.

If you want to be a proper full on 'airline pilot' and travel the world in a large jet then obviously go to Emirates.

[Enzo999]

Depends on experience. Going in as an SFO is not that bad a deal to be honest. Fixed roster (if you want it), good basic pay and conditions, etc...

I have never heard of anyone in recent years being offered direct entry SFO in the U.K, I applied with 5000 hours and was offered a contract job with Parc or a second officer both of which I had to decline on the grounds of being an adult with a mortgage.

[dirk85]

There is more to Europe than the UK.

Flexi contracts are offered only in the UK, while normal and more than decent direct contracts are offered in the rest of Europe. Also SFO.

[OC Piztoff]

I think EZ are now offering permanent contracts to new joiners...?

Aircraft type is important for only two reasons: firstly, if I get made redundant, being able to find another job relatively easily; and secondly short haul a/c = short haul lifestyle.

The most important thing to me is spending time at home: where that home is (or is going to be) I'm not that fussed about.

Interested that NOR might be putting a 737 Max into EDI for the transatlantic stuff. Money's not as good as EZ, but spending a working day sitting in the cruise for 7 hours before having 12 hours off and then doing the same in reverse before having a few days off sounds quite appealing. Especially considering the cost of living in Scotland.

[Enzo999]

The original question was relating to EZ with a LGW base, so what's on offer else where in Europe does not matter. I could be wrong but In the UK all FOs will enter the company as SOs if they are lucky. If there is someone who has been given direct entry SFO with a UK base please come forward and say. Trouble is in the UK EZ have a good thing going with CTC and Oxford, hundreds of cash rich wannabes happy to throw money at making their dream happen, the role of FO is almost obsolete, it's a cash cow that has the added benifit of making flights legal!

[The African Dude]

Having experienced two out of the options listed, I can only compare between them, so cannot advise. But EZ LGW and EK A380 are really comparing apples and oranges. This decision has to be based on where you need to be based and where you see yourself in five years time.

I enjoyed my steak and 6hrs sleep on the way back from Australia... and it was a lot less work than four sectors through LGW any day of the week. But if you prefer to end the day in a traditional pub garden (prior to collapsing in bed for 7hrs ready for the next 11hr epic in-and-out of the South East) rather than pool and sand then that's a personal choice.

Also, your lifestyle requirements will change in the next years. What offers more flexibility for your particular needs? It's a never-ending discussion. Do your due diligence, look at rosters, visit the places, check out the house prices, make a choice and get on with it.

[Snapper5]

Emirates are desperate for pilots at the moment? Many are leaving to try and return to the UK or where ever they are based .
1000 working hours a year and bunk time does not count ?
Good money but that's not everything

[OC Piztoff]

Cheers for the replies guys. Been trying to get sample rosters for months, but with no luck. I do understand that the 380 vs the 777 with EK is very different, and both of those are very different from EZ @ LGW.

Personally, the thought of 4 sector days for the rest of my working life with a constantly alternating pattern between earlies and lates fills me with dread. Although the money with EZ sounds vaguely sensible (at least for a UK based job).

[Kim Jong Il]

1. Easy
2. Norwegian
3. EK

Easy: Good type, reasonably good employer, profit making, expanding, direct employment, many bases in Europe and UK.

Norwegian*: Last type rating you'll ever need ;), 15 days off per month, expanding. No direct employment, no representation, bank guarantee of 40K EUR.

EK: Useless type, Good money but you have to live in the desert. Been there done that. I'll prefer western or southern Europe over the UAE always!

* Noticed that NOR is 737, not 787, so in my opinion the decision is even eazy-er

[harry the cod]

Bunk time that does not count? Well, half correct. You'll get 75% hour credit for a ULR ops although 100% is paid.

Useless type? Assuming you mean the A380. Well, it's not stopping many leaving their useless type and joining Korean on the B777. And if you mean the B777, that's the same 'useless type' that has a joint B787 on the licence, you know, the last type rating you'll ever need!

Careful with the advice boys.

[Monarch Man]

Just to follow up on Harry's words......

A380, most at EK seem to think it's the be all and end all, the reality is the company is doing back flips behind the scenes to not take anymore..

B777 a good versatile type but, just like the 380 it's not something that will hold sway with many employer who don't operate the type.

Be smart, be sensible, EZY, and then its a tie...Norwegian/Emirates...each are the same given MK redefined recruitment for EK and now runs it for Norwegian.

[The African Dude]

Become a pilot, they said. See the world, they said. Stick with easyJet, they said, it's safer, they said. Pilot training is a gamble they said... no guaranteed job they said.

I mean why even bother taking the risk?

Seriously tho, it is down to your specific circumstances.

[Luke SkyToddler]

The stupidest decision I ever made in my life was to leave Easyjet and go to the desert.

If you must must must get the big jet longhaul thing out of your system, stay with EZ and get your command first, get 1000 hours 320 left seat and then go do an A330 contract somewhere in the world as a captain. But that command time, is the best insurance policy in the world if you decide you don't like your decision after a year or two.

[Gunman returns]

I agree, horses for courses. I have flown long haul for 12 years now and prior to this did my time at Easy. I would never willingly give up the long haul lifestyle. Even after all this time when I'm sitting on the beach in Phuket or The Seychelles or Curaçao with a cold beer I can't believe this is my job. When the joy of just flying wears off ( and it will ) you may as well drive a train or a bus as work for a loco. Did you become an airline pilot to fly back and forth or to travel the world enjoying layovers?. I personally would rather stack shelves in Tesco than fly for Easy, Jet2 etc

[OC Piztoff]

...the reality is the company is doing back flips behind the scenes to not take anymore..

... Norwegian/Emirates...each are the same given MK redefined recruitment for EK and now runs it for Norwegian.

Interesting comments, MM- although not sure that I follow what you mean when you say the above. Could you expand please?

[Say Mach Number]

Three lessons learnt in aviation in just under 25 years in this business;

1. Never leave an airline for less money

2. Never leave an airline to go back in the right hand seat

3. Never leave an airline just to fly a type

Not sure how many apply to you but be warned.

[Chesty Morgan]

Ever crossed the Atlantic? Have you ever been to Doha, let alone lived there? Have you any experience of flying a wide body aircraft from Dubai to a destination 11 time zones away, from 32 degrees sunshine to -12 in +SN? How many layovers have you done in your career so far? How many cities in almost all the continents have you visited and experienced from the comfort of 4-5 star hotels?

Sounds utterly horrendous.

Crossing the Atlantic - boring. When you're not bored you're trying to sleep. Oh, position reports, they're fun.
Flying a wide body - not really any different to flying a narrow body. It's bigger and fatter.
Crossing 11 time zones - just screws up your body clock but you do get 24 hours to sort that out.
32 degrees - too hot. -12 - too cold. I have gone from -16 in ++snow to +35 in ++sun. So what? Do I win?
Layovers - if you've got a good reason to avoid being at home then I suppose a free 24 hour holiday might be acceptable.
Cities - most are overcrowded, stinking, noisy, expensive, cesspits of humanity.
Hotels - meh.

[donpizmeov]

But chesty most like to get off those little training aeroplanes and state being real pilots after a while. For some it will take longer, but they will no doubt gain enough confidence and experience eventually. Cramped in a tiny cockpit for four sectors....yuck. Good place to learn the trade I guess. A roomy and quite flight deck with comfy seats, that's where the true aviators are.
Position reports are so 1990. It's been data link for an age.

[Chesty Morgan]

So you don't even get to break up the monotony with a bit of HF faffing? Even worse. Oh look over there...more sea/cloud/ice cap.

How much real piloting do you do from your bunk?

Last time I did a four sector day EK probably was the employer of choice ;)

[Snapper5]

Shall we all compare our P@!£s size now ?
It's all personal preference
I love my 10 minute commute from my house in the country to my 200m walk to the crew room , I know everyone there .
Do a 2 sector day and then spend the night in my own bed .
No way in the world do I want to fly a big jet ??
If you could actually fly it maybe it would be ok ! , when can you take an A380 or 777 out of autopilot and ATHR and throw it around at NICE or GIB ? Or do you just do your 10mile ILS and follow the cross ?
When I see a big jet takeoff I think to myself unlucky them ! Sat there for hours and hours across time zones to have min rest in some hotel somewhere absolutely exhausted, most of the crew are from the Far East or want to save money ( lonely life) , maybe it would be fun for a year or 2 but then after that ......
I would need ALOT of money to go to that lifestyle

[Piltdown Man]

I have no first hand experience of any of these companies, but know people in all of them. Some like what they have, others can't wait to get out. The problem is money vs lifestyle vs home. Also, where do you call home, or where do you want to call home? To me a home is a garage full of toys and clutter, friends across the road and a place where my kids bring their friends round. An employer is someone who will train me, develop me, look after me when things go wrong and pay me the going rate. The happiest people are in Easy, the least happiest are in the sandpit. The ones at Norwegian don't know yet.

[MaverickPrime]

I don't know people in any of these companies, but I do know this!

I grew up calling the UK home and never wanted to move away from a certain part of the UK as I thought it was great.

Then I went to Spain and lived there for a while, I started to realise the UK wasn't all its cracked up to be and thought I would live in Spain for the rest of my life. Then the novelty wore off and I realised that Spain wasn't all its cracked up to be; the grass isn't any greener in Spain, just a different shade of brown (excuse the pun).

Then I figured something crucial out, life is what I make it, happiness doesn't depend on circumstances, it depends on how well I can command my emotions, it depends how well I can make the most of things instead of complaining to everyone on pprune about my lot.

Right now I have a bird, I'd like to marry her and have a family, so aiming for LOCO and being home everyday appeals to me.

But, maybe in ten years I'll take a fancy for a 777 and a break from home life.

To the OP, weigh up your options, decide what suits you and then make the most of it. I think I've summed up what most people in this thread have already tried to say.

[Iver]

No airline is perfect, but Thomson seems to offer the best of both worlds in comparison to the 3 named airlines in this thread and Thomson are hiring again. Thomas Cook also offers similar mixed flying - another consideration.

If the contract situation could ever be figured out at Norwegian it could be appealing. Too bad they don't integrate the 787 and 737 flying like Thomson.

Norwegian is "supposed" to add as many as 30 A321LRs starting in 2018-2019 and that could offer interesting transatlantic flying - only time will tell if that happens and if they make improvements with their subpar contract.

[tonker]

EZ busy, NOR busy, EK really busy, Jet2.............

[FlipFlapFlop]

Well I am in possession of a recently issued direct entry SFO contract with EZY in LGW so times must have changed

Must have been very recent. 6000 hours including wide body and was offered Parc or 2nd Officer early last year. Luckily others didn't feel the need to kick me in the teeth after 10 years experience.

[Enzo999]

Well I am in possession of a recently issued direct entry SFO contract with EZY in LGW so times must have changed

Well then you have struck gold! You are the first person I have heard of in about 10 years to be offered direct SFO employment with Easy with a UK base from day one. It's a shame they did not do this years ago they have lost a lot of good people and experience to other airlines.

[bizjetway]

I agree that Thomson is an option you should look at but have you thought of flying private jets? There are some good packages with biz jet operators out there, 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off

[nicosnoko]

OK Bizjetway, I would leave my ME3 position for a 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off with a Bizjet, but where?

[KyleRB]

In my opinion and personal experience, you'd be crazy to leave any good airline for a bizjet lifestyle. 2 weeks on/off - so what!? There are some very good jobs in corporate but they are rare, like hens teeth and very hard to find - deliberately! Most are well below par in terms of working conditions and job security. Jets get sold all the time by owners and moving around following a sold jet is a good way of wasting your life. The market in Europe will never recover to what it was 9-10 years back. There are well paid jobs out in Asia or ME but you either live there permanently or live out of a suitcase and commute. Oh the glamour! You are just a glorified aerial chauffeur - nothing more! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt and now chucked it! Working for any decent airline, with all the daily moans and groans, is much better way of spending your life. Most of my former colleagues are now with me in the airlines with no regrets. Every now and then I put my rose tinted glasses on and look back to those days, but when I take them off I again see it for what it was. Some people love the hobo lifestyle but I no longer do.

As to the original poster, in many respects I can't believe the question is being asked. Only you know what your personal circumstances are, none of us do. 10-12 years ago I wanted to fly planes and travel the world. Flying was everything. Now I still want to fly planes but there is definitely more to life. Seeing family, friends and coming home most nights are my priorities. In other words a life outside aviation!

[nicosnoko]

Hello Kyle...

I know quite a few who left one of the ME3 for a bizjet, and no they are not crazy.
Obviously I would not go on a citation 2 or similar, as I know it would be a ****ty contract. A Gulf, Global, Falcon, it all depend on the contract...

I have flown for 6 different airlines and one biz jet operator, obviously the most fun was with the biz jet.

Try to fly 100 hours a month like me, and it's just a matter of time when you will be looking for a new gig.

I'm evaluating a few different options and yes biz jet is one of them.

I would consider EZY but on part time only...

and 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off ...so what... are you kidding???

[KyleRB]

nicosnoko,

You prove my point! If flying is everything to you, then the very best corporate jobs will probably tick your boxes. For me there's more to life than flying, spending time with the family, catching up with friends and doing other 'normal' things is much easier on a decent airline roster. Job security is far higher too!

About 10 years ago at Hamburg I bumped into a VIP 777 crew. It was privately operated and they were knackered and operating longhaul on minimum rest repeatedly. The owner didn't give a monkeys about them. They were simply glamourised aerial chauffeurs literally slaved to their machine. One of my ex colleagues used to fly a Global Express for a conglomerate. He was well paid, stayed in 5 star hotels, and always flown out in business class to link up with the jet but he left that life to spend quality time with his family which he couldn't do on the Global. He's now with me on the 320.

If you are divorced, single or just hate being at home, then a corporate lifestyle is the best form of escapism you can have!

Good luck! :)

[nicosnoko]

Thanks Kyle, I agree with you, some of the corporate jobs can be a nightmare, especially if you have a family. but not all of them.
Of course the best one are, well, extremely hard to find but not impossible. It's all about the right connections i guess.
I will keep looking for one, I might never find it...

One thing i'm pretty sure, I cannot keep flying 95 to 100 hours a month.

And where I would like to live there are not so many options...

Stay ME3 ... NOT
Commuting contract
Low cost EU (not on full time contract)
Corporate...

[Eau de Boeing]

Snapper 5, when you have quite finished talking out of your ar*e.

Nice goes to the A380 shortly with EK, we have plenty of challenging airports on the big bus and even a "nice 10 mile ILS" can be tricky in monsoon or windshear conditions.

Now, I am no expert but I have worked for 2 out of the 3 companies mentioned here and have been a trainer in both of them. I know what lifestyle my young family prefer.

I wouldn't touch Norwegian with yours, I would consider easy only with a permanent UK/French/Italian contract and a place on the waiting list out to somewhere north and I wouldn't join EK on the light twin fleet.

OC Piztoff, the best thing you can do is actually talk to people who have and continue to experience the companies you mention and then make the right decision for you and your family.

(There is life beyond Cumbernauld :ok:)

[Paolo]

"you may as well drive a train or a bus as work for a loco... I personally would rather stack shelves in Tesco than fly for Easy, Jet2 etc "

Well, I tell you what, I used to stack shelves at Tesco in the 1990's and I doubt its changed very much and I can tell you I much prefer my LHS position in a LCC flying (operating?) an A320 around Europe.....

[Count of Monte Bisto]

Interesting discussion. I am a training captain with easyJet (my 5th airline) and have not worked for NOR or EK. I have, however, trained a number of pilots who came direct to us from the other two. You could reasonably argue that the fact they came to us means they are not 'typical' and therefore will be biased against their previous employers. All I can tell you is that they all seem glad they came to easyJet. We are not perfect, but it is a pretty good option. Others have knocked the existence of unions at easyJet- my observations would lead me to the view that their presence has been a massive overall benefit to our pilots. The advantages of easyJet are job security, quick promotion, rosters issued on time, fixed-pattern rosters at larger bases, modern aircraft, good training, good safety culture, great colleagues and relatively little time away from home. The disadvantages are historically unstable rosters in the summer (this year is supposed to be different, but no one is holding their breath!), long 4-sector days and lots of hard work. One or two people who have come from Monarch and the like have felt almost overwhelmed by the intensity of the operation. The pay is pretty good in the U.K., France, Germany and Italy but not so good in Spain and Portugal. The dreaded flexicrew will be gone by the end of the year. If you have a job offer at BA, take it and if you are desperate for long haul easyJet is not the place for you. Thomson is ok but you will wait a long time for promotion. There is no perfect job but each of the companies mentioned can be good if you go in with the right attitude. Good luck!

[FlyboyUK]

I came to EZY from NAI (also my 5th airline) and I think COMB sums it up perfectly. Secure job with proper direct employment pension etc. Having union representation is most definitely a plus. Preofessional, friendly working environment. EZY isn't perfect but it's certainly alone whole lot better than the last two airlines I've worked at.

[Direct Bondi]

There are numerous labor rights and labor principles gained with direct employment.

The multijurisdictional divisions of Norwegian’s atypical employment (airline unemployment) regime, permits one group to be at odds with another.

Norwegian is keeping up appearances of a 100% united family, however, it is apparent the Mrs. Bucket 787 high flyers are very much divided from their Onslow, 737 string vest relatives.