Virgin Australia Cadet program

[guni83]

Hi all,

I hear Virgin Australia is opening up their cadet program later this month.
They have advanced program for current CPL holders and I think the program is planned to start from October this year.

Does anyone have insight and know if they will consider to shortlist a non CPL holder who is in integrated CPL course currently with the completion period before the start date of the program?

Thanks

[Flyboy1987]

Hi all,

I hear Virgin Australia is opening up their cadet program later this month.
They have advanced program for current CPL holders and I think the program is planned to start from October this year.

Does anyone have insight and know if they will consider to shortlist a non CPL holder who is in integrated CPL course currently with the completion period before the start date of the program?

Thanks

They will have 1000's to choose from so I highly doubt it.
Who knows though?
Good luck

[dr dre]

Only one way to know for sure. Submit an application, and if they deem your application suitable they'll get in touch with you to start the selection process and you can find out then.

[notabove500]

They will have 1000's to choose from so I highly doubt it.
Who knows though?
Good luck

1000's is excessive. There will be a smaller pool of people with a CPL, but not MECIR who fit Virgin's profile.

[Albert Einstein]

They will have 1000's to choose from so I highly doubt it.
Who knows though?
Good luck

I too think 1000s might be a big number. Experience has taught us in the past that nobody really knows what these recruiters are looking for, maybe just girls, maybe just boys, maybe its just a survey, all I know is I got a ppl and a few hours short of a cpl and i'm going all in, the only thing i got to lose is nothing.

[TurboProp2120]

I too think 1000s might be a big number. Experience has taught us in the past that nobody really knows what these recruiters are looking for, maybe just girls, maybe just boys, maybe its just a survey, all I know is I got a ppl and a few hours short of a cpl and i'm going all in, the only thing i got to lose is nothing.

Good on you Albert Einstein - looks like a good program, but expensive. Lodging costs alone seem to be easy $30k, on top of course costs. Do they pay you throughout the course?

I must say the guaranteed job at the end is a good lure.

Good Luck! :ok:

[mikewil]

Is anyone still waiting to hear back after submitting their videos?

[ACMS]

Probably candidates with many more hours than you. Go get 1,500 hours then try again.

[Tui12]

Hours not relevant as you can't have greater than 750 TT even for the "advanced" Cadetship

[Jbrownie]

8 hours solo? Nearly beat my 6.6 mate

[outofwhack]

Nearly beat my 2.9 hours to solo

[Tui12]

The point I am trying to make smart arses is that it doesn’t meet their criteria so I wonder exactly what that is.

[Tankengine]

The point I am trying to make smart arses is that it doesn’t meet their criteria so I wonder exactly what that is.

Possibly over qualified. Who knows? Perhaps you annoyed someone at the interview.

[FLGOFF]

Impossible to say what their criteria is, they set lower minimums in order to allow people with less experience make up for it in other areas. More hours doesn't automatically mean better and they know that. + Hours to first solo in itself is irrelevant.

[FPDO]

2333


ONe of the new batch of Cadets !

[Tui12]

There was no interview. Girl I know got the same email. She has an instructor rating as well. Maybe they are basing it on looks although she is a lot better looking than me.

I wouldn't not mind if people got the chance to interview or testing but to not even be offered that when you have everything they need and more, is surprising.

Must be because I'm Kiwi/English will have to learn how to speak through my nose next time its for an Australian job ;)

[wishiwasupthere]

Maybe they detected the sense of self entitlement coming through.

[puff]

When you have about 6 positions and probably 1000 applicants, everyone that hits submit and gets through has the 'minimums'.

Quite simply with those sort of numbers above, thats why they aren't interested in people that are 'close' to a CPL or any other way of not meeting the requirement. Not really possible to interview everyone in this situation who meets the minimum....apply for other in demand jobs like firefighter too and sometimes you just don't make the grade to go further. As to why, one makes it over another ?!?!?!

Remember this cadetship was also advertised for internal staff before going external, they won't take substandard candidates, but there are lot of very qualified and capable people in the ranks within the company too.

[mikewil]

It seems as if the program heavily favours females as well.

Take a look at the previous class that was a run a few years ago:

http://www.flyfta.com/wp-content/uploads/DSC_0682A.jpg

You can see from the photo that out of 8 cadets, 5 were women. You can't seriously tell me that 60% of the applicants were women. Last time I looked at the statistics, less than 10% of commercial pilots licences in Australia are issued to women. I would think applicant numbers in this program would be similar. You would therefore have a far higher chance of getting through just by not being a bloke.

This is the problem with companies trying to use quotas to rectify perceived injustices. There are less female pilots simply because less women want to fly, just like there are less male nurses and teachers because less men want to go down those career paths.

Shame on Virgin.

[Flyboy1987]

It seems as if the program heavily favours females as well.

Take a look at the previous class that was a run a few years ago:

http://www.flyfta.com/wp-content/uploads/DSC_0682A.jpg

You can see from the photo that out of 8 cadets, 5 were women. You can't seriously tell me that 60% of the applicants were women. Last time I looked at the statistics, less than 10% of commercial pilots licences in Australia are issued to women. I would think applicant numbers in this program would be similar. You would therefore have a far higher chance of getting through just by not being a bloke.

This is the problem with companies trying to use quotas to rectify perceived injustices. There are less female pilots simply because less women want to fly, just like there are less male nurses and teachers because less men want to go down those career paths.

Shame on Virgin.

Welcome to aviation.

[7478i]

Is anyone still waiting to hear back after submitting their videos?


I am still waiting too, anyone else?

[23alpha]

I am still waiting too, anyone else?

I just got a reply from them. I applied for the ab-initio route and have been rejected.

[23alpha]

Well, I'd like to know what their "non-specified" criteria is!! Just got my rejection email. I applied for ab-initio. Have completed maths & physics at high school, I've completed a BSc, I have 15 hours TT, I have a Class 1 Med, and wrote what I thought was a pretty good application but still failed to even make the very first cut :ugh:

So, I must be too old or too male. Either way seems like discrimination to me.

...yes, I'm feeling a little sandy.

Although I have no flying experience, I have a master in Professional Engineering and have had experience working in an airline's technical services. I also thought I had a pretty good candidacy but didn't even make it to online testing like you. I wonder who's making their online testing?

[StillUntitled]

I too applied for ab-intio. Ive only got my RPL and like 30 command hours, had a pretty solid application. Low hours but a licence that showed I was interested in the field, solid cover letter. Sent them my ASIC, a copy of my class 2, etc even though i didnt really have to. Sent my training notes, log book, all of it. Only one problem didnt have a passport yet. Sent them an email, they were happy for me to send it after the close of date. Sent the passport app off and get the passport like a week and a bit after the application closing. In the mean time when i applied, i noticed some things in the applcation that it didnt say on the requirements page. Things like a birth cert, and the last 3 pages of your log book. The page on their website just said log book. So i send an email with extra stuff to cover myself. Yeah sure no worries i added that to your aplication. Passport comes in. Send it to them on a monday. No response. Thats strange normally they reply within the day. Send it again on thursday morning. Response thursday afternoon. Rejection email. Seems very suss.

[Flyboy1987]

I understand getting the rejection letter may come to as a shock to a lot of you, I've had my fair share...but you have to remember you are up against a very high number of applicants. Ask yourself, how do you stand out against the other 1000 applicants, what's makes you special. If you want to be trained and given an airline job at the end, you're going to have to be a cut above the rest.

[cadet5]

It is very disappointing, but im with everybody else here, there are too many people competing for these positions, statistics say hundreds are going to be really disappointed once we receive the "thanks but not this time" letter. I don't feel bad cause I have my own career and I success in other things, it wasn't my time this time but it has been my time before and it will be my time many more times to come. who knows maybe they are looking for certain ages, or maybe for females, someone posted there something about them hiring many women in the past, or maybe they are looking for looks after all many of us had to submit a simple video with very quick and basic answers not really much you can do in two minutes, maybe they just wanted to see how easy on the eye your are. Hang in there everyone, keep getting involve in this sort of things and one day we'll make it, that's how it works. ;)

[puff]

With all due respect coopmeup,

Perhaps your distain of having to do the video was obvious to recruitment!

[7478i]

I just got a reply from them. I applied for the ab-initio route and have been rejected.



Still waiting here, when did you submit your videos?

[Flyboy1987]

With all due respect Flyboy,

You do not know what was contained in my application and how I attempted to stand out. I think conveying a very high level of academic achievement, and displaying a professional manner with strong work history, great references, and a strong desire to 'get a foot in the door' should be sufficient to progress to at least some online psychometric assessments.

This is not Big Brother and I should not have to submit a video of me prancing around in a tutu to get the attention of the recruiters for a position which does not require that level of extrovertedness.

Whatever you submitted wasn't enough, you may have been borderline, they may have taken one look at your application and said no, who knows.

It's great you've studied maths and physics, but so have most pilots.

Don't take it personally and spend weeks thinking about the application you submitted, it was probably overseen by a member of HR who have no idea what to look for in a pilot, move on, your time will come.

It's no coincidence that these opportunities normally go to the applicants whose father is a widebody captain within the company. You'll watch the video the successful applicants make about how they grew up with aviation in their blood as they used to visit dad in the cockpit.

Work hard and it will eventually happen for you.

[Flyboy1987]

Thanks for the encouragement Flyboy. The bitterness of being rejected even though I know in myself I will make a better pilot that every one they finally choose will make my eventual success taste even sweeter.

P.S. I am so sick of nepotism it isn't funny.

Mate, it's hard not to be bitter.
You may run in to the guys and girls who are successful and you'll wonder how the hell they got in, that's life.

I went down the GA road and now looking at the majors after 3 years, my mates went cadetships and are upset they'll never get to do the flying I done, to each their own.

As for nepotism, this industry is full of it, and if my old man was in an airline or owned/worked in GA, of course I'd be using him for a foot in the door, unfortunately for me he's an electrician who's terrified of flying!

[Coopmeup]

having unwavering self-belief is considered a poor attitude is it XM?

[Tankengine]

having unwavering self-belief is considered a poor attitude is it XM?

Yes..............

Lots of dead pilots with unwavering self belief. :(

[mikewil]

Tankengine :D
What that means is that you can do so without needing to berate fellow candidates. How the hell do you know that you'll make the best pilot with your limited experience as you described in your earlier post? Very disrespectful, nepotism or no nepotism.

It is hard not to berate them with the blatant discrimination shown in this program in the previous cadet program that they ran.

5 out of the 8 cadets were females.

I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of the applicants were female.

Notice how these females are also very attractive as well. Maybe the same division of HR that takes care of cabin crew recruitment is also looking after the cadet pilot applicants.

[Coopmeup]

There's a big difference between backing yourself to become the best, and thinking that you already are. I fall in the former.

[dr dre]

Thanks for the encouragement Flyboy. The bitterness of being rejected even though I know in myself I will make a better pilot that every one they finally choose will make my eventual success taste even sweeter.

P.S. I am so sick of nepotism it isn't funny.

First off, it isn't nepotism. Applicants who know people in the company (whether they be friends or family) do a unique insight to the recruiting process of an airline and are able to gain that knowledge prior to their selection process. They may get an advantage because of this, but that isn't proof of nepotism. Plenty of senior captains out there who have kids that have been knocked back from from cadetships.

Second of all, if any future applicants are reading this, don't for one second be arrogant enough to think that you "will make a better pilot than every one else they choose". Remember in Top Gun when Viper tells Maverick that he likes arrogance in a pilot? Well airlines absolutely hate overt arrogance in their pilots, and it's the easiest way to rejected from a cadet interview.

5 out of the 8 cadets were females.

I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of the applicants were female.


Lastly for all those whinging about affirmative action and girls getting the jobs over the boys, having known plenty of female cadet pilots, they are absolutely at the top of their game and do give the boys a run for their money. I've no doubt anyone selected for this program, regardless of gender, was at the top of their selection pile. It may just be coincidence that it was 50% female, and the females were the stronger, more motivated candidates than the men. But more likely there were probably just as many female applicants as male. I'm hearing in some university and flying school courses that female enrolments are equal to or are exceeding male enrolments in the last few years. The old boys club of aviation is gone. No use complaining, you weren't up to scratch, better start worrying about the rest of your career.

[puff]

Hi Puff, I used a video as an example of how we must obviously be expected to display non-specified qualities in order to be successful. I didn't even make it that for - which you would have known if you had have read the thread properly instead of making a stupid ill-informed comment like a douche.

Nice coopmeup, I have read the thread properly, if you look back earlier in the thread I actually posted something that I thought might have entered into your head that whatever you had for your application might not have cut the mustard against other people external of the company, and people from within the company that have a demonstrated pattern of work and dedication and knowledge to the organisation. As for doing the video interview, yes they are BS...but you do realise that there is a 3 stage interview process to work at Bunnings to stack shelves?

Friendly bit of advice from someone actually in the industry, don't act like a douche(as you delightfully bought back) and act like the industry owes you anything. It's a tiny industry on the grand scale of things, and a crap attitude will find you not just getting rejected from this, but everything you ever go for.

Aviation needs skills and attitude, you might think you have one, but you have displayed so far you don't have the other.

As for nepotism, the first 2 courses had no Captain's children (women or not) on it, and plenty applied!

Mike - I suggest you hang around the airport a bit more and observe some of the VA cabin crew these days, they are not ALL the 20 year old blondes from 15 years ago.(Those still there are now approaching 40) Quite a large number of 45+ are being hired now.

[mikewil]

But more likely there were probably just as many female applicants as male.

Rubbish. Do I need to dig up the stats on annual numbers of CPLs issued to males vs females to prove your suggestion is utter BS?

All that having gender quotas does, is denies the position for people more qualified and capable for the job.

Perhaps we should also have quotas to meet to ensure we have an appropriate number of Aboriginals, Muslims, Gays, Trangenders etc in cockpits.

[dr dre]

All that having gender quotas does, is denies the position for people more qualified and capable for the job.


What if the female candidates showed they were more suited for what VA was looking for? Maybe the typical teen/early twenties male personality wasn't what VA sought for this cadetship in particular and, like has been mentioned on other threads, empathy and getting along with people are what airlines are looking for. Maybe the women were better suited to this.

But at the end of the day, the fact is the cadetship makes up a fraction of recruitment. 4 positions going to women when according to your standards it should have only been 1 or 2 or none is hardly anything to complain about. Males will still make up the majority of pilot recruits.

[dr dre]

To everyone who has suggested I have a poor attitude due to one sentence that I have previously written I'll say this...

If you don't aspire to be the best in your field then what kind of pilot does that make you?

We all try to do the best we personally can do and strive to improve ourselves, but I think it's when you said:
I know in myself I will make a better pilot that every one they finally choose will make my eventual success taste even sweeter
That when you say that you know you will be better than every one else they could possibly choose, that comes across as arrogant.

[Brakerider]

To everyone who has suggested I have a poor attitude due to one sentence that I have previously written I'll say this...

If you don't aspire to be the best in your field then what kind of pilot does that make you?


The truth is you can be the best hands on pilot In the word but it won't get you past the HR BS in today's Airline interviews. I know some really good people who've missed out, and some others got in that leave you asking why!

[j3pipercub]

To everyone who has suggested I have a poor attitude due to one sentence that I have previously written I'll say this...

If you don't aspire to be the best in your field then what kind of pilot does that make you?

It makes me a safe pilot that knows my own limits and can (and has) worked within them for over a decade in GA. In a safe, efficient and effective manor which means everyone goes home at the end of the day.

I'm sure you're pretty good, but you ain't the best, you aren't the next Yeager or Hoover, nor will you likely be a 'better pilot than anyone VA choose'. You'll most likely be a hack, like the vast majority of pilots, myself included. That is to say we screw smalls things up every flight, but strive to improve.

The ego you display will most likely get you and your future pax killed or seriously injured.

But hey I'm just a hack who's been around the block in Aviation a bit, I'm sure you know best with your vast aviation experience.

[psycho joe]

There are a whole gamut of urban recruiting myths being run here, and whilst it might be cathartic for some to believe these fallacies as self evident truths, the reality is more benign;

1. Airline recruiters don't want the best pilots, they are actively engaging in affirmative action ie they want minority pilots.

Despite some ridiculous things that get said in the media from time to time, no airline in Australia engages in affirmative action for pilot recruitment. Airlines don't have the budget to waste time on unsuitable people and no Pilot involved in the recruitment process would sully their reputation by being involved in such a folly.

2. I have a friend who's a great bloke who failed an interview, therefore the recruitment process is invalidated.

Nobody who ever failed an airline recruitment process in the history of aviation has ever gone back to their friends and explained that in the interview they acted like a total muppet. They lied or demonstrated an inability to accept responsibility, they couldn't articulate a single thought process, or that when they get stressed their natural response is to become obnoxious and that this was demonstrated to perfection in the process.

3. Airlines are nepotistic, they want airline captain's sons.

When an airline says "what sort of people do we want?" they look at their best and then actively recruit people with those qualities. It's not rocket science or even a stretch to think that an exceptional Captain may have a son/daughter with similar qualities and personality traits.

4. I'm awesome and didn't pass the recruitment process, therefore the airline doesn't recognise awesomeness, I've been discriminated against and the whole process is invalidated.

Nope. It worked perfectly.

If your natural response to being critiqued is anger and an inability to accept responsibility (apportioning blame), then be happy in the knowledge that you are the reason why there is a vetting process.

[pilotchute]

Joe,

Whilst I agree that airlines don't hire unsuitable candidates, what exactly makes a candidate unsuitable? This varies greatly between companies.

You could ace the sim and interview but if management think you will be unwilling to move bases in 2 years time they may be inclined to take someone who performed at a much lower (but still satisfactory) standard than you.

Your notice at current company and where you live now are also factors that can work for you or against. The Darwin GA guy may be great but misses out cause he can't make type rating course in 10 days. So they take Mr very average who can.

Also Jetstars new CP announced that she is pushing for 50% female pilot recruitment so if that isn't affirmitive action I don't know what is.

[Flyboy1987]

Joe,
Also Jetstars new CP announced that she is pushing for 50% female pilot recruitment so if that isn't affirmitive action I don't know what is.

Qlink are also targeting female pilots.
At a recent assessment day one of the first statements made by HR was "we have a target of 30% females".

There is definently an agenda at play and with political correctness gone mad, it's probably only going to get worse.

[logansi]

I think you could be an argument that females perform better in the types of interviews we see in these cadetships. Through my own experience, I have found that females are much better at giving the interviewer what they want than their male counterparts when it comes to off the street kind of positions.

[pilotchute]

A friend of mine said recently,

"I will never know now if I am being hired on merit or if it's just to fill a quota".

[23alpha]

Still waiting here, when did you submit your videos?

I never even made it to the video interview stage which is something I find really odd given I exceed their minimum requirement.

[belly tank]

23 Alpha,the mind boggles of the HR departments these days.
Ive got 4500 hrs rotary wing ATPL with 700 multi engine IFR glass cockpit multi crew time in heli, due to the oil and gas downturn I applied as I also have a CPL(A) Frozen ATPL(A) with a lapsed multi engine IPC rating. I didn't get through as I was told i had too many hours. :ugh::{.

[pilotchute]

Hiring criteria changes at the whim of management. I worked at a A320 operator that changed its mind 3 times in 6 months. First they targeted turbo prop FO's. Then the new HOTAC wanted people with time on type. Just before I left they wanted single pilot IFR time.

It's a lottery.

[psycho joe]

Firstly, to be clear I have no connection with the thread topic whatsoever, however I am familiar with the subject of recruiting generally.

Coop et al. It's important to understand that meeting the minimum requirements to apply for a position is no guarantee of success. Whilst it is true that I have no idea how you presented yourself, likewise you have no idea how others presented themselves either. It's also important to keep perspective, there's a difference between not being competitive in the selection process and outright rejection. You won't get detailed coaching from a recruiting department. This is real life and not high school, airlines have neither the resources nor the inclination to spend man hours coaching every unsuccessful applicant. The airline and the industry owes you nothing. How you react is entirely up to you. Pick yourself up and move on, or use this as an excuse to define the rest of your life. I'd suggest that you stop whinging, this isn't even close to the worst rejection that will confront you in this industry.

Also Jetstars new CP announced that she is pushing for 50% female pilot recruitment so if that isn't affirmitive action I don't know what is.

I believe that it was the CEO. Im aware of this statement in a paid advertorial and I've written at length about this on another thread. Essentially talk is cheap, recruiting is expensive. These days every airline department fights for, and is accountable for every dollar so results are essential. Furthermore, HR people are generally viewed as being expendable and most companies turn over hr people faster than rolls of toilet paper. Given that it takes a whole team of people to recruit every individual, a single hr person playing games by stacking a recruitment drive with unsuitable people would result in a massive failure rate, and subsequently a new HR vacancy.

[Biatch]

It seems as if the program heavily favours females as well.

Take a look at the previous class that was a run a few years ago:

http://www.flyfta.com/wp-content/uploads/DSC_0682A.jpg

You can see from the photo that out of 8 cadets, 5 were women. You can't seriously tell me that 60% of the applicants were women. Last time I looked at the statistics, less than 10% of commercial pilots licences in Australia are issued to women. I would think applicant numbers in this program would be similar. You would therefore have a far higher chance of getting through just by not being a bloke.

This is the problem with companies trying to use quotas to rectify perceived injustices. There are less female pilots simply because less women want to fly, just like there are less male nurses and teachers because less men want to go down those career paths.

Shame on Virgin.


Incorrect... 7 cadets. 4 women. One female in that photo is a cadet mentor and current 737 FO.

Whilst the correction doesn't exactly disprove your point, it may indication your assumptions may not be all as they seem. I would be more inclined to believe what someone else here has said, in that the company cannot afford to run a recruiting quota.

[mikewil]

I would be more inclined to believe what someone else here has said, in that the company cannot afford to run a recruiting quota.

Course they can. There are thousands of applicants for any form of airline pilot employment program (both direct entry and traineeships).

HR departments have so many applicants to choose from that they can cherry pick who they want and weed someone out because they don't like the colour of their eyebrows.

In many threads here, there are stories of captains going for direct entry with thousands of hours of jet experience being turned down in favour of someone with a few hundred hours of instructing in a duchess.

HR departments are a cancer on every organization. Don't for one second believe they will choose the best person for the job.

Flying an aeroplane isn't difficult, you can train any monkey to fly. Who gets the job comes down to what kind of candidate the twisted HR personnel are frothing at the mouth for at that point in time.

[pilotchute]

Mikewil,

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Flying skills are an after thought these days when it comes to recruitment.

[Open Descent]

Flying skills are but a small part of the skill set that airlines are looking for these days.

At the end of the day you may be able to flying anything like it's on rails, but if you're the sort of person that nobody wants to sit next to for 8 hours, then you may find yourself out of the running.

I'm surprised some of you haven't figured that part out yet??

[DogDaysAreOver]

Well, I'd like to know what their "non-specified" criteria is!! Just got my rejection email. I applied for ab-initio...

So, I must be too old or too male. Either way seems like discrimination to me.

...yes, I'm feeling a little sandy.

I am female. I have a degree in aviation, a respectable number of flying hours for a recreational flier, and overseas experience in flight operations.


I applied for Virgin's inaugural program back in 2012 and subsequently got to the final round. I knew of one of the young women who got in and she performed excellently in the group work exercises and public speaking. I have no doubt she performed well in the other stages too.


However, I didn't progress past the first stage the following year. To say I didn't have "it" would be at odds to my performance the year prior. After some thought, I came to the conclusion that I had not shown self improvement during the time that had elapsed. However (and perhaps more importantly) there didn't seem to be any sort of prejudice given my gender or past performance - I had to prove myself just like everyone else.


At the time I was with the military (and later joined a paramilitary company). It was here that I spent my time reflecting upon the skills that a pilot needs, and then went about developing said skills. These included (the list is no way exhaustive): strong communication skills, the ability to work in a team, able to work under pressure, able to take criticism on board, ability to self reflect/assess, etc. I deliberately picked a career path within the organisations so I could get the exposure and challenges that I need to grow. I also spoke extensively to aviation experts and enthusiastists to get their inputs, opinions, etc.


With a few more years of work experience under my belt I applied for another Australian based cadetship as well as overseas cadetship. I got offers for both cadetships and am due to start training soon for my chosen airline. I don't think these successes came about being the owner of a vagina - I know I performed strongly in the group exercises as I have plenty of practice. I also had quite a lot of interviewing experience by then, and I had a number of real world examples to expand on.


End of the day would not say I am an excellent pilot (I didn't break any records when soloing!), or that I am particularly smart or talented. But I took on the lessons learned from going through the recruitment process of Virgin then set out gaining valuable life skills that would serve me well in any job.


I guess my point is that you have to roll with the punches and stop playing the victim card (dare I say "man up" :P). Because while you spend your time complaining, people like me are working away....

[dr dre]

End of the day would not say I am an excellent pilot (I didn't break any records when soloing!), or that I am particularly smart or talented.


The amount of time it takes someone to go solo has no bearing on future pilot success IMHO. I've seen some who went solo after a few hours, but basically plateaued when they reached a level they thought was comfortable. They learnt quickly, but not deeply.

Others who took dozens and dozens of flying hours before first solo are some of the best pilots I know, and make particularly good instructors. They have some real experience in overcoming problems they can use to help students overcome their issues as well. They also strive to self improve regularly, something the minimum time brigade doesn't do.

[Masafi1]

So has anyone progressed through to the cognitive/psychometric testing on either the ab initio or advanced programs yet?

[psycho joe]

DDAO

Congratulations on your success.

I deliberately picked a career path within the organisations so I could get the exposure and challenges that I need to grow.

This is the single best bit of advice on the subject of airline recruitment that anyone could take away. Like it or not behavioural science based Pilot recruitment is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

[pilotchute]

Open descent,

I would rather sit next to a**hole for 8 hours knowing that if stuff goes wrong big time he/she won't drop the ball. I couldn't care less about how polite/charismatic someone is. Its a job not a social club

[dr dre]

I would rather sit next to a**hole for 8 hours knowing that if stuff goes wrong big time he/she won't drop the ball. I couldn't care less about how polite/charismatic someone is. Its a job not a social club

Having an a-hole in the flight deck next to you is, in my opinion, going to cause many more incidences of things going wrong to begin with. And when it does, this isn't a single pilot game, two crew working effectively together will provide a better outcome than an a-hole single pilot hero anyday.

[psycho joe]

I would rather sit next to a**hole for 8 hours knowing that if stuff goes wrong big time he/she won't drop the ball. I couldn't care less about how polite/charismatic someone is. Its a job not a social club

I don't think that OD was trying to diminish the requirement for flying skills, rather pointing out that flying is one of several complimentary skills required.

Being an a**hole or even a half-a** isn't a skill, its an art-form and as such has no place in a technical environment.

I hope that helps.

[Jimnhorace]

DDAO, thank you for illustrating so eloquently what any major aviation company should be looking for when they recruit.
Over several decades in aviation, I have been involved with recruitment, induction, training and checking of candidates for a major airline and you sound like you have developed into the type of pilot that every airline would be very happy to have in their fold so congratulations on your achievement.
The suggestion that you may have achieved based on gender is offensive to me as a recruiter and fellow pilot.
I firmly believe the only thing quotas achieve is awarding a job to someone less qualified.
For some people though, there will always be an excuse for not getting a job.
So much more convenient to say, I wasn't (choose an adjective) enough.
Be mature enough to admit (just like DDAO did), I wasn't good enough.
And then you can go about improving your self.
And while we are on it, no-one wants to sit next to an a,hole for ANY length of time. If you show yourself to be an a,hole, I guarantee you will not be getting the job.

[pilotchute]

Jim,

Whilst I would prefer not to sit next to an ahole, the quality of some of the people I had to fly with recently makes me wonder. Whilst being very polite and book smart, planning an approach seems beyond their ability.

I will take the abrasive but skilled person any day.

[dr dre]

For the record, if I am unsuccessful with any job, whether the reason(s) be a single issue or a list as long as a whole page, and whether I agree with them or not - I'll take it on the chin and attempt to address every single reason until I can say 'hand on heart' that I have done the best I possibly can in every single listed aspect to make myself a better recruitment prospect. No issue with me whatsoever.

What is total bullsh*t though, is when you meet (and/or exceed) every single advertised requirement then get a bog standard 'thanks but no thanks' email with no explanation as to where your deficiencies were.

I'd like your advice Jimnhorace how one should reflect on how they aren't good enough if they aren't told why they were not successful.

I don't want to make excuses. I can receive criticism. I can act on advice. I can make myself a better person and a better pilot... but only if I am told where I am lacking.

You're not going to get it. Companies these days don't have enough HR staff with idle time on their hands to provide in depth constructive criticism and career advice to everyone who applies to their cadetship but doesn't make it (there would be thousands). If they did a lot of rejectees would scream "unfair" at the reasons given and complain back to the company, further clogging up their resources.

Sorry to say it, but HR have zero responsibility towards failed applicants. None at all. They solely deal with succesful cadets and current employees.

If you want feedback here's a tip. Discuss your interview with your peers and mentors, and be self aware enough to realise where you may have gone wrong. If you can't do that that may be a big hint into why you failed in the first place.

[Jimnhorace]

Coop, I understand your frustration. It is very difficult to know how you stack up against the other candidates or prospective company standards without that feedback so, you have to work with what you know.
Critique yourself honestly and concentrate on all the areas you think you could have improved on. No-one has ever flown a perfect sim or sat a perfect interview. There is always room for improvement. Seek guidance from those you know that have been successful and leave no stone unturned in your preparation. Conduct mock interviews with your friends. Have them ask supplementary questions that you may not have anticipated. If you haven't done a lot of hand flying lately or you know you will be assessed on a particular sim, consider buying an hour for familiarity and to get your scan going.
Look like a professional. if your only suit is ill fitting or shabby then hire, borrow or buy one. Polish your shoes. Bind your resume, have copies for the people conducting the interview and know what is in it. Same with your log book.
If you are asked to bring copies of check and training records for the past 2 years then bring all of them from that time frame. Even if they are not particularly complimentary. I can tell you that candidates who have been just average in every other aspect have been given jobs because of how they responded to questions about those assessments. They owned them. Didn't try to blame any one else and were able to tell us what they learnt from that experience and how they are now better pilots.
From experience, a lot of people think they failed the interview when in fact they have failed the sim.
And don't believe just because you failed in your application for one airline, you will be undesirable to the next or unsuccessful in your next attempt. Back in the day, a lot of people who failed the Ansett selection criteria ended up successful with Australian or Qantas and vice versa.
Good Luck in your quest and don't give up. Nothing succeeds like perseverance.>
Chute, I can teach some one how to set up and fly an approach but i can't teach someone how to not be an a,hole.

[dr dre]

You completely missed the point. I met all the specified criteria and I didn't get to an interview stage at which I could request the feedback of peers and mentors. Pretty hard to be "self aware enough to realise where (I) may have gone wrong" don't you think?

Im also quite aware of the fact that no-one who is rejected at the first (or second, or even third) round will receive feedback.

Also, do you honestly think if you applied for a job (any job - even outside of aviation) and you were rejected despite meeting all the criteria they were seeking, that your inability to work out why you were unsuccessful was in fact, the reason itself? I don't think so.

Well you submitted an application that got rejected, right? There might be something in your application that stood out as being a negative. Have a few experienced airline pilots run their eyes over it, or maybe a few HR specialists. They might find something that may be an instant "red flag" for recruitment.

Or you could just be unlucky and got rejected on a technicality because they have 1000's of applicants for less than 10 positions and not enough HR staff to look through them all indepth. But don't worry, the world needs over 600'000 new pilots over the next 20 years and not getting into the VA cadet program this year won't hurt your career. Just be prepared to accept any honest critique of your attitude or behaviour along the way.

[mikewil]

If anyone has sat the psych testing for the cadetship over the last couple months, can you please send me a PM.


Thanks

[Coopmeup]

Well you submitted an application that got rejected, right? There might be something in your application that stood out as being a negative. Have a few experienced airline pilots run their eyes over it, or maybe a few HR specialists. They might find something that may be an instant "red flag" for recruitment.

Or you could just be unlucky and got rejected on a technicality because they have 1000's of applicants for less than 10 positions and not enough HR staff to look through them all indepth. But don't worry, the world needs over 600'000 new pilots over the next 20 years and not getting into the VA cadet program this year won't hurt your career. Just be prepared to accept any honest critique of your attitude or behaviour along the way.


Coop, I understand your frustration. It is very difficult to know how you stack up against the other candidates or prospective company standards without that feedback so, you have to work with what you know.
Critique yourself honestly and concentrate on all the areas you think you could have improved on. No-one has ever flown a perfect sim or sat a perfect interview. There is always room for improvement. Seek guidance from those you know that have been successful and leave no stone unturned in your preparation. Conduct mock interviews with your friends. Have them ask supplementary questions that you may not have anticipated. If you haven't done a lot of hand flying lately or you know you will be assessed on a particular sim, consider buying an hour for familiarity and to get your scan going.
Look like a professional. if your only suit is ill fitting or shabby then hire, borrow or buy one. Polish your shoes. Bind your resume, have copies for the people conducting the interview and know what is in it. Same with your log book.
If you are asked to bring copies of check and training records for the past 2 years then bring all of them from that time frame. Even if they are not particularly complimentary. I can tell you that candidates who have been just average in every other aspect have been given jobs because of how they responded to questions about those assessments. They owned them. Didn't try to blame any one else and were able to tell us what they learnt from that experience and how they are now better pilots.
From experience, a lot of people think they failed the interview when in fact they have failed the sim.
And don't believe just because you failed in your application for one airline, you will be undesirable to the next or unsuccessful in your next attempt. Back in the day, a lot of people who failed the Ansett selection criteria ended up successful with Australian or Qantas and vice versa.
Good Luck in your quest and don't give up. Nothing succeeds like perseverance.


Thanks Dre, JimnHorace,

I have already sought out a couple of professional resume reviewers following this rejection and will be making amendments as necessary. I will also be attempting to improve the 'readability' of my resume by ATS (applicant tracking software). It is possible that my application simply wasn't read correctly and never even made it to human eyes. Whether this was the case or not, it is still an area I can improve on.

I have also taken additional flying lessons and will continue to do so (despite the potential peril of "too much flying experience" for ab-initio programs) because I want to know I have the skills (and, at the risk of sounding like a nerd, I love flying). At the end of the day, If I exceed the maximums before I am offered a cadetship then it will just be off to GA world for a few years. Same goal, different journey.

I am proud of my logbook and keep it neat, tidy and legible but I did not think to make sure I bring it should I ever get to an interview and I will absolutely remember to do so. Would've been a rookie error I guess, but not now. Thanks.

I am confident in my interviewing ability and own a pretty nice suit :ok: but I do not have contacts in aviation world (other than my instructor) to whom I could interrogate about the hiring process. This is something I will also work on.

Very disappointed about this rejection from Virgin but there is no way I will just give up or wallow in self-pity despite being accused of such in some posts on this thread.

I'm just going to push on and I have no doubt I will be able to make a career in aviation in one way or another. Thanks for your positive feedback and genuine advice.

[Di_Vosh]

I agree wholeheartedly with dr dre, Jimnhorace, and psycho joe and have little to add to their comments.

There is another possibility for the response Coopmeup got, and it's along the lines of:

Or you could just be unlucky and got rejected on a technicality because they have 1000's of applicants for less than 10 positions and not enough HR staff to look through them all indepth.

As has been said previously: HR has limited time and resources. A hypothetical cadetship is advertised: There are only 10 positions, and thousands of applications. Since HR's time is valuable to the company, if they get 100 (say) applicants who meet all the criteria they MIGHT say:

"Enough. We've got 100 people we can shortlist for sims. interviews, etc. Disregard any further applications."

So any further applicants, regardless of qualifications, won't even have their applications read by the company, even if those applications are submitted before the cut-off date.

This is reasonably common in other industries, and I've done this myself when I was in I.T. and we had over 200 applications for 2 graduate entry positions.


The take-away from this is: Have your C.V. references, etc, ready. When a position opens, get your submission in ASAP. If you wait for the 'day before the deadline' you may well be too late.


DIVOSH!

[Coopmeup]

Hi Divosh,

I have considered your suggestion but can advise that I submitted my application, in full, on the very first day the applications opened (to the general public).

As I said in my previous post, it is possible that my application was ignored by ATS and never made it to a human (I dont know if Virgin use this sort of software but it would be a good guess that they do for the amount of applications they must receive) so I am taking positive steps to eliminate this possibility from occurring in the future (irrespective of whether it occurred in this instance) as well as other actions to make myself more appealing.

Cheers.

[Sbaker]

I applied for the Sharp Cadetship back around 2011-2012.... got rejected, applied again in 2015, got in... just keep at it.. perseverance.... When I got rejected all I did was go back to work and sorted myself financially in the meantime, then when mining slowed down thought I would have another go... I am much better for it from a financial perspective in the fact I have my car I own outright, and a house... so now I can ENJOY the flying - even if I don't get paid as much in flying - as long as it covers the bills I will be happy. :-)

Also a tip for applicants, I know mining companies actually use software to scan CV's, and the software picks out the CV's to show to the HR Recruitment.... it scans for Keywords that they choose.... like "SAFETY", "LEADERSHIP", "SOP" etc. ...not sure if Virgin use such software - but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Jimnhorace]

and, at the risk of sounding like a nerd, I love flying

That is another curious thing about interviewing.
Over the years, I have been confused, bemused and frustrated by the number of people who we want to employ but who convince us not to because of a professed lack of passion for aviation. There is nothing uncool about loving what you do. It is what drives a career wanting to be better at our craft and noone on the interview panel is Chuck Yeager. Most pilots have to work to maintain a good standard.
What is important to us above almost everything else is, are you the type of person who will still be engaged enough by what you do to still be putting in the effort required to achieve well in 5, 10, 20 years time?
What sort of Captain will you make and what impression will you leave on your subordinate crew at the end of a trip and career?
This strikes at the cultural core of any airline. Be surrounded by people who want to be good at what they do and you will find yourself in that mind set as well.
One final thought. No recruitment protocol is infallible. We all know people who got the job that should have gone to some one else. That is not right nor is it fair but that is life. Sometimes a persons best attribute is their ability to sell themselves and the employer gets to wear that mistake for 30 + years. Don't waste any energy worrying about why that guy got the job. Just do what DDAO did and get on with it.
One final, final thought. I wonder how many people have tried to enlist the advice of DDAO. She is recently successful not once but twice in applications for Cadetship. I would have expected a raft of questions directed to her about all manner of things and maybe that happened on a PM platform out of view. I hope so. She was gracious enough to share her experience here and that makes her a resource prime for plucking.
(I hope you don't mind the reference, DDAO)
Good Luck to you all.

[romeocharlie]

Jim's advice is solid.

I've got a few cents to add.

The recruitment process is changing. It is no longer 'here's the minimum requirements, if you meet them you'll get a job.' But on the minimum requirements topic....

Coop - in about 2007, when times were good and everyone was moving through their little part of aviation, Skytrans minimum requirements were 2500 hours just to get a job flying a 310 out of Cairns, because it was a multi-job not stuck in some :mad:hole like Horn island or Kunners or TFC (Tennant F'ing Creek). Virgin and QF at the time had a minimum of 500 hours multi-command and a few other bits and pieces. Now, that's not to say the rare person got in with that, but I can assure you most of Cairns that got a job at the time had over 3000 hours with a hell of a lot more than 500 multi. Minimum requirements are just that. Minimum. Why don't they just raise the minimum they expect people to have you ask? Because it's their train set and that's how they want to play with it.

I personally know an AME for QF with more flying than you who has been rejected from a couple of cadetships too. I assure you his cover letter, resume and qualifications didn't just meet the minimum but smashed them. He is a well rounded individual who any airline would be lucky to have (IMHO) and is modest (yes this is something we look at). Did he get on a forum to complain about being rejected from not one, but two cadetships? No, he's up at old Taity's on the coast smashing out CPL subjects like a lord! He sold up everything he owns and is determined to get a job the good old fashioned way.

The key words to the last paragraph here are 'well rounded.' The people who are lucky enough to get these cadetships (not something that was around when I started) don't just meet the minimum requirements, they generally have been in the industry in some form or another. They have uni qualifications too - heck, half the industry has some useless bit of paper gathering dust that plays no benefit to their actual job. They do check-in, chuck bags, or whatever just to get the experience in the industry they want to be in the rest of their career.

Equality. 40% of the QF group Chief pilot's are female. If you knew either of them, you'd know they both earned their position through hard work. Both of them have been in the industry long enough that trying to 'even the numbers' didn't exist and thus reflects their efforts more.

We all try and do our best, that's all you can ask for. Perhaps the question the OP should've asked wasn't what he had to get rejected, but what the successful candidates did have to get such a meritorious position. I know a couple of cadets who both gladly offer their time to discuss this with anyone who asks.

If you get rejected, reapply. It's called tenacity.

RC

[SkyRoving]

If anyone has sat the psych testing for the cadetship over the last couple months, can you please send me a PM.


Thanks

I have but assuming you have already done the test as the cut off was the other day.

Best of luck for round 3 :)

[patty50]

Assessment centre invites out now.

Anyone know if the ab initio and advanced will be done at the same time?

Seems about 8-10 people per day? Fair bit of culling still to do it would seem.

[Bepis101]

Got an invite to an Assessment Day as well patty50.

Do you have any additional knowledge (other then what was in the email) about the tasks they'll make us do?

[Flightboy1]

I also got an invite to the Assessment Day. I'm in the advanced stream of applicants. Another guy I know is in the ab-initio stream of applicants, both on on the same day so it seems they both streams will be done on the same day. Anyone know how many applicant we would be down to now??

[patty50]

I was too slow to see how many interview spots there were but I assume total number is however many multiplied by day. I'm going to guess about 10-12 days, probably 8 per day. Assume equal for advanced and ab initio and we're likely in the top 30-50 for each stream. Could be totally wrong of course.

Nice surprise that both are done on the same assessment days (sort of) double your odds.

I have a hunch they'll hire at the upper limit of their cadet class sizes, given their direct entry hiring.

[ibeargifts]

Soooo... Initially I was notified I was unsuccessful for the AB initio process... but just one hour ago I was emailed a message saying I agreed to come to the assessment day... welp... I better take this opportunity.

So how are you guys prepping for this?

[notabove500]

Soooo... Initially I was notified I was unsuccessful for the AB initio process... but just one hour ago I was emailed a message saying I agreed to come to the assessment day... welp... I better take this opportunity.

So how are you guys prepping for this?

I think everyone got it. Don't get too excited unfortunately!

[StillUntitled]

I think everyone got it. Don't get too excited unfortunately!

See I got the original rejection email, then just got an email apologising for the email sent out this afternoon. Which I never got, seems they have some issues they need sorting out. Makes me chuckle.

[ibeargifts]

I think everyone got it. Don't get too excited unfortunately!
Yeah. I got a follow up email telling me to ignore my invitation... sad face... Oh well... at least nothing changes for now...

[patty50]

A few issues with their email today. I received the mentioned emails and then the follow up apologising. I'm gathering they sent the apology email to everyone including those who had previously been invited to assessment centre days.


Seems fewer people attending assessment days than I thought, going by the schedules.

[wishiwasupthere]

So let me get this straight?

They told you initially that you were unsuccessful, then they sent an email inviting you to an assessment, then another email apologizing and saying it was a mistake??

What a circus!!

[Jabawocky]

Yes, a family friend who desperately wants to be an airline or commercial pilot suffered the high hopes and dashed in hours feeling.

Bit of a stuff up it seems :rolleyes:

[Jeps]

I can echo some of the sentiments here. I applied on a Friday and on Saturday morning at around 6am I got a rejection email. I assume HR Wasn't feverishly reviewing my application in the 12 hour interval between application and rejection. I also consider myself to have fairly good standing for both programs. The algorithm mustn't have liked me......

[Bepis101]

Does anyone have an idea of what's going to be assessed in the PILAPT? I've never done one before and am not sure what to study...

[mikewil]

Does anyone have an idea of what's going to be assessed in the PILAPT? I've never done one before and am not sure what to study...

At what point will you be sitting the PILAPT? How do you know this is the particular test they use?

[Bepis101]

Will be sitting the PILAPT during the assessment day. A HR email informed applicants that the day would consist of this PILAPT test.

[SkyRoving]

from my calculations there is about 80 interviews in total with the Syd and Bne Schedules for based on last round 10-15 spots. Still a lot of culling to do I'd say

[mikewil]

How did everyone find the assessment days?

Anyone make any observations about the mix of candidates? Was it a pretty even split between male and female applicants?

[TTPilot]

Sydney assessment center is next week. I thought there was a melbourne one also, is there a Brisbane one?

[TTPilot]

The Sydney assessment center hasnt happened yet - its next week. Is there a Brisbane or Melbourne (or both) center also?

[mikewil]

Anyone know how many simulator assessment days have been allocated? All in Adelaide or are there multiple locations?

[Bepis101]

Anyone heard back from Virgin regarding Assessment Day results yet?

[guni83]

I am hearing some rumors that the program didn't go ahead at all because FTA didn't get the VSL approval from the government that Virgin was going to rely on to finance the training.
But this is an unverified rumor.

[mikewil]

I am hearing some rumors that the program didn't go ahead at all because FTA didn't get the VSL approval from the government that Virgin was going to rely on to finance the training.
But this is an unverified rumor.

Rumour might be based on the other flying school at Parafield (Hartwig Air) that might be losing their access to VSL funding.

Haven't heard anything about the same happening at FTA.

Anyone else heard anything?

[bolthead]

Just slight thread drifting for a bit here. If every Tom , Dick and Harriet had easy access to $99,000 for flight training, I would think that would attract a lot who are just not to cut the mustard and finish the course. Now who can we blame for that?

[dr dre]

I am hearing some rumors that the program didn't go ahead at all because FTA didn't get the VSL approval from the government that Virgin was going to rely on to finance the training.
But this is an unverified rumor.

The FTA website states that VET student loans have been approved and are in effect for their courses:
Flight Training Adelaide | HOME (http://www.flyfta.com/course-information/student-loans)

Just slight thread drifting for a bit here. If every Tom , Dick and Harriet had easy access to $99,000 for flight training, I would think that would attract a lot who are just not to cut the mustard and finish the course. Now who can we blame for that?

Well it's lucky that Virgin put the applicants through aptitude testing and interviews prior to them gaining a place on the course then.

[outnabout]

Mikewel, I think you will find that The Other Flying School has already lost its VET FEE funding (reported in the newspapers as being mid-June) and is now appealing that decision in the Aust Admin Tribunal.

[havoste]

FTA has VSL approval but reached a temporary cap on funding in 2017. Going forward they may reduce non-cadet VET student intake to accommodate more cadets including Virgin.

[Westieboy]

Virgin have announced they're reopening their cadetship again in October following a successful completion of their advanced cadets. Will be interesting to see if they change their structure with the announcement of Qantas' academy

[MrAvGeek]

Virgin Australia will reopen applications for their cadetship this Friday (04 May). According to the updated FAQ page (see website):

2019 will have two intakes, one in January and the other in July.
There will be no advanced program stream in 2019.
A cost breakdown of the course is now available and is as follows:

AVI50215 Diploma of Aviation (Commercial Pilot License) - $74,990
AVI50415 Diploma of Aviation (Instrument Rating) - $27,840
AVI60216 Advanced Diploma of Aviation (Pilot in Command) $16,714
UPRT – $1,760
Uniform - $832
54 weeks full board accommodation - $24,316.74

Though, the FTA program allows a successful cadet to access Vet Student Loans (VSL) to fund the program. VSL can fund up to $76,125 per qualification i.e. CPL. MECIR, ATPL & MCC, but it should be noted that in 2018 an individual can only access a maximum of $102,392.

[heli1980]

What are the age requirements for this program ive just turned 33.

The Helicopter career path has been destroyed in Australia by CASA and part 61 and I was looking at moving to a more stable career. Will 2900 Helicopters hours and flying overseas be a benefit for this cadetship? I already have passes in irex and other exams.
.
I'm currently flying in Bali and so once I week i have a beer or two with the 737 guys flying in from Virgin, they seem to think that I should apply and its very much a people person job and how you get along with the other crew.

But im not sure if this program is aimed at students with 0 time, I have 0 time in fixed wing aircraft.

cheers

[havoste]

Yes it's for ab-initio up to a PPL, they should also add that only current Virgin staff or relatives need apply, to save applicants and their own time.

[josephfeatherweight]

Hey, heli1980, is the helo job situation that bad??? I thought it was going alright these days?

[MrAvGeek]

Virgin Australia will reopen applications for their cadetship this Friday (04 May). According to the updated FAQ page (see website):

2019 will have two intakes, one in January and the other in July.
There will be no advanced program stream in 2019.
A cost breakdown of the course is now available and is as follows:

AVI50215 Diploma of Aviation (Commercial Pilot License) - $74,990
AVI50415 Diploma of Aviation (Instrument Rating) - $27,840
AVI60216 Advanced Diploma of Aviation (Pilot in Command) $16,714
UPRT – $1,760
Uniform - $832
54 weeks full board accommodation - $24,316.74

Though, the FTA program allows a successful cadet to access Vet Student Loans (VSL) to fund the program. VSL can fund up to $76,125 per qualification i.e. CPL. MECIR, ATPL & MCC, but it should be noted that in 2018 an individual can only access a maximum of $102,392.



Applications are somehow open at the following link:

careers [dot] virginaustralia [dot] com/cw/en/job/500807

[heli1980]

Hey, heli1980, is the helo job situation that bad??? I thought it was going alright these days?

Unless you spend 70k on Helicopter MECIR, there is no chance in hell now after the co-pilot IR and ratings were abolished.

and GA pays nothing and is not stable anymore.

[stormfury]

Depending on your personal situation, the US might be an avenue. The RW transition programs are aimed at Mil RW pilots but this is primarily to get the <1500hr exemption.

It might be be worth investigating with Dr Google. Failing that there are a few lurking around PPRUNE that may be able to offer some advice.

[puff]

Yes it's for ab-initio up to a PPL, they should also add that only current Virgin staff or relatives need apply, to save applicants and their own time.

Interesting you say that, do you have the stats on the percentages of how many there were? I don't believe there has been more than 3 with those connections on any of the courses thus far.

[mikewil]

Yes it's for ab-initio up to a PPL, they should also add that only current Virgin staff or relatives need apply, to save applicants and their own time.

If you want to significantly boost your chances of success through the recruitment process, I recommend seriously considering a sex change.

The photo in the following link should give you a pretty good idea what they are looking for....

https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3778/Virgin%20Australia%20Ab-Initio%20Pilot%20Cadet%20Program

[badt18]

Although I believe airlines like Virgin are favoriting females for their cadetship programs (Its good marketing on their part).

I do wish to point out that their 2018 Advance Pilot Cadets graduation photo shows 5 males and 1 female.

[mikewil]

Although I believe airlines like Virgin are favoriting females for their cadetship programs (Its good marketing on their part).

I do wish to point out that their 2018 Advance Pilot Cadets graduation photo shows 5 males and 1 female.

This is because the vast majority of existing CPL holders who applied for the program are male, so they weren't able to meet their 'quota'.

When they have say 2000 applicants for the ab initio program with perhaps 1900 males and 100 females, its still easy to meet their quota of 5 of each.

As far as it being "good marketing", I honestly can't believe the population is brainwashed by the feminist media to not be outraged by gimmicks like this. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot...

[badt18]

As far as it being "good marketing", I honestly can't believe the population is brainwashed by the feminist media to not be outraged by gimmicks like this. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot...

I never said I agree with it but from a marketing point (General Public, outside of the pilot community) If a house wife that organises the family holidays see advertisements that contain female pilots or seen female pilots for Virgin at the airport, they may be more incline to trust Virgin and this would put Virgin in a good position when it comes to that family planning their next holiday.

Yes its crap and unfair but it seems the way allot of company's are going towards

[mattyj]

I’m quite interested in the Virgin Galactic Space Cadet program

[sheppey]

UPRT – $1,760

What a rip off for unusual attitude training. You can do that in 20 minutes in a 737 desk top simulator for nothing.

[Frostmourn]

And heard back anything?
I should probably cut off my penis and put in a vagina, looking at this 50:50 quota.

[pilotchute]

The whole Virgin cadet scheme is PR. They dont need to do it so why should they? If it was an honest scheme they would take more than 6 people a year.

The REX cadet scheme is 10 years old now and I have never seen a mainstream media article about it. As for the Qantas scheme that is just more smoke and mirrors.

[notabove500]

And heard back anything?
I should probably cut off my penis and put in a vagina, looking at this 50:50 quota.


If you read closely on the information page you would see
'You will receive notification if you have been short listed to participate in our assessment process within four to six weeks of the application close date.'

[Frostmourn]

If you read closely on the information page you would see
'You will receive notification if you have been short listed to participate in our assessment process within four to six weeks of the application close date.'
Thanks. obviously im too impatient. End of June by the look of it then. Did you apply as well?

[CloudMusterer]

And heard back anything?

I got an email last week saying I was short-listed for the video stage and I submitted my videos yesterday.
Fingers crossed for now; We will likely find out if we made the cut for an assessment day in late June.

[Sergekal]

I got an email last week saying I was short-listed for the video stage and I submitted my videos yesterday.
Fingers crossed for now; We will likely find out if we made the cut for an assessment day in late June.

I sent my video application 3 days ago. The suspense is going to kill m wasiting. Goodluck!

[Shaunie]

Does anybody know anything about the accommodation on site? I'm married so would be interested in finding out if my wife and I will need to be separated for the training.

[notabove500]

theres no option for partners to live in at FTA

[DoubleDiamond]

Has anyone kept receiving the email asking for them to send their videos through. I've now received it 3 times in as many days.

[CloudMusterer]

Has anyone kept receiving the email asking for them to send their videos through. I've now received it 3 times in as many days.

I only received it once. Perhaps you should make sure they actually received your videos? I got an email back from flipbase saying my videos were successfully sent to virgin just after I submitted them.

[DoubleDiamond]

I only received it once. Perhaps you should make sure they actually received your videos? I got an email back from flipbase saying my videos were successfully sent to virgin just after I submitted them.

Yeah not a bad idea CM. I've sent them twice and received the flip base notification twice. If I get it a fourth time ill send them an email. Now hurry up and wait I guess.

[harrisonicboom1]

I sent my Questions in last sunday, what do you guys reckon is the waiting time for a response

[CloudMusterer]

I sent my Questions in last sunday, what do you guys reckon is the waiting time for a response
The website says we'll know if we made the cut for an assessment day 4 to 6 weeks after the closing date. So I would think sometime between the 2nd of July and the 14th of July.

[harrisonicboom1]

Got a response back from VA today,
Unfortunately didn't get thru to the next stage, wasn't expecting it due to the BS quota, look forward to the next round

[Kranz]

Well,

Got the rejection email today. 2nd year in a row I have been unsuccessful. Last year I didn't even get to video stage. This year I did. Maybe next year I'll get to group assessments. So disappointing but I keep trying & I keep flying. I just hope that one day a window will open if not a door.

It hurts so much when you put your heart and soul into something, and deep down you know you have what it takes to be a good pilot. I tried to communicate this through my application, resume and video but they seemed to be looking for something else too. I would be grateful if anyone here could provide some feedback or advice on how I can better myself to become the candidate that airline HR are looking for. Good luck to everyone else.

[CloudMusterer]

Well,

Got the rejection email today. 2nd year in a row I have been unsuccessful. Last year I didn't even get to video stage. This year I did. Maybe next year I'll get to group assessments. So disappointing but I keep trying & I keep flying. I just hope that one day a window will open if not a door.

It hurts so much when you put your heart and soul into something, and deep down you know you have what it takes to be a good pilot. I tried to communicate this through my application, resume and video but they seemed to be looking for something else too. I would be grateful if anyone here could provide some feedback or advice on how I can better myself to become the candidate that airline HR are looking for. Good luck to everyone else.

Sorry to hear that mate. Like many of the others in this thread have said, don't take it as a bad commentary on yourself; no-one knows what they are looking for. If I don't get through this year my plan is to get my ratings and head north for a couple of years to gain some command time. Work and hard and it will happen to you in the end.

[MrAvGeek]

Well,

Got the rejection email today. 2nd year in a row I have been unsuccessful. Last year I didn't even get to video stage. This year I did. Maybe next year I'll get to group assessments. So disappointing but I keep trying & I keep flying. I just hope that one day a window will open if not a door.

It hurts so much when you put your heart and soul into something, and deep down you know you have what it takes to be a good pilot. I tried to communicate this through my application, resume and video but they seemed to be looking for something else too. I would be grateful if anyone here could provide some feedback or advice on how I can better myself to become the candidate that airline HR are looking for. Good luck to everyone else.

I too got the rejection email, though I am a little more gutted as I made it through to the Assessment Day in last year's application process. I did declare this in the initial application and actually received more worthwhile support with my networks in regards to tweaking my resume, cover letter and how to answer the video application questions. My mind will be left wondering for a while - you might be onto something Kranz.

[Birna]

I have gotten the rejection email twice now in two days. Feels like its just being rubbed in with another kick in the guts, although I'm sure its not intentional. Rather disappointing result but I will keep applying until someone makes me stop.

Got a response back from VA today,
Unfortunately didn't get thru to the next stage, wasn't expecting it due to the BS quota, look forward to the next round

Well this supposed quota that some people are talking about didn't work for me, so chin up. There were just better candidates that more accurately articulated why they were the best picks.

[Kranz]

I have gotten the rejection email twice now in two days. Feels like its just being rubbed in with another kick in the guts, although I'm sure its not intentional.

Last year they sent out an email inviting everyone to the assessment centres after they had already rejected 90% of them. This year they are telling everyone 'no' twice. We go to all the effort to make a professional, quality, accurate application and resume, and upload videos to the best of our ability and the clowns there cant even perform basic HR administration tasks. It adds to the frustration substantially but at the end of the day it wont change your attitude to wanting to be a pilot or securing a job with an airline if that's what you really want.

All I can do is fly to the best of my ability every time and incrementally get better. Eventually, I will have the practical skills, knowledge and capability to be a commercial pilot. whether that translates into a paid job is, in some respects, out of my control. I just need to focus on the bit that I can control and attempt to make it as attractive to employers as possible. Again, the frustration is that it is never entirely clear what those employers are looking for however the enjoyment of flying is enough for me to keep doing it. Good luck all.

[pilotchute]

Rumour is once Borghetti steps down the cadetship will be wound up.

[Flyboy1987]

Rumour is once Borghetti steps down the cadetship will be wound up.

Jesus. Where will the remaining 6 pilots come from each year?

[pilotchute]

What will they do with the 3 ATR pilots that are left when they ditch that aircraft!!!!

[Kranz]

Pilotchute - how solid is that rumour? Is it as solid as the rumour that JB is already getting forced out the door?

[pilotchute]

I have it on good advice that Virgin will be consolidating it's operations to shore up its bottom line. It has fingers in too many pies.

It's going to be focusing on things that make money and not wasting any more time on new ventures or things that aren't core business.

A number or middle management will go too.

He will hang on to the very end.

[CloudMusterer]

Assessment day invitations were sent out today and the assessment days will be held in early August. I wonder how many people have been culled already.

Is there anyone here who attended an assessment day last year and is willing to share how it went?
- Any interview questions or group scenarios that you remember?
- What was the difficulty of the maths and physics written exams? I am guessing it will be mainly Year 12-level Physics and Maths.

Good luck to everyone.

[Stricko101]

Assessment day invitations were sent out today and the assessment days will be held in early August. I wonder how many people have been culled already.

Is there anyone here who attended an assessment day last year and is willing to share how it went?
- Any interview questions or group scenarios that you remember?
- What was the difficulty of the maths and physics written exams? I am guessing it will be mainly Year 12-level Physics and Maths.

Good luck to everyone.

I also got a confirmation for the assessment day in Sydney on the 8th of August. Although I haven't been to the Virgin Australia assessment last year I went to the Jetstar assessment and Im guessing the style of the tests will be fairly similar. The level of maths was fairly basic and consisted of mainly questions in regards to distance/time and a few multiplication and division questions but you were under time pressure. The physics questions were slightly more difficult and a sound knowledge of basic physics principles and calculations would help. The hardest part of the assessment was the psychometric test and I found it quite challenging.

[Kranz]

Cloud, Stricko - what did you do in your video submissions to differentiate yourselves. I though mine was ok but I didn't get through so some indication of what you did might benefit me in the future. TIA.

[CloudMusterer]

Cloud, Stricko - what did you do in your video submissions to differentiate yourselves. I though mine was ok but I didn't get through so some indication of what you did might benefit me in the future. TIA.

I kept my videos extremely simple actually- plain background, properly dressed, straightforward answers (but I did a lot of takes). Best of luck for any future intakes.

I also got a confirmation for the assessment day in Sydney on the 8th of August. Although I haven't been to the Virgin Australia assessment last year I went to the Jetstar assessment and Im guessing the style of the tests will be fairly similar. The level of maths was fairly basic and consisted of mainly questions in regards to distance/time and a few multiplication and division questions but you were under time pressure. The physics questions were slightly more difficult and a sound knowledge of basic physics principles and calculations would help. The hardest part of the assessment was the psychometric test and I found it quite challenging.

Thanks for the info mate, I am also attending the August 8th assessment day. See you there :ok:

[Stricko101]

Cloud, Stricko - what did you do in your video submissions to differentiate yourselves. I though mine was ok but I didn't get through so some indication of what you did might benefit me in the future. TIA.

My videos were simple, to the point and met the tight time constraints, which l found extremely difficult to meet. It required me to cut and edit multiple clips together.

[Kranz]

Hmm, exactly the same as I did. Simple, professional, addressing the questions, keeping within the time limits, and multiple takes to correct and prevent errors. That is frustrating that I did the same thing as other people that got through to the next round but I missed out. Good luck guys. I'll keep on pushing by other means. If you're successful, you might be the last ones according to 'Chute above.

[compasshr]

I also got a confirmation for the assessment day in Sydney on the 8th of August. Although I haven't been to the Virgin Australia assessment last year I went to the Jetstar assessment and Im guessing the style of the tests will be fairly similar. The level of maths was fairly basic and consisted of mainly questions in regards to distance/time and a few multiplication and division questions but you were under time pressure. The physics questions were slightly more difficult and a sound knowledge of basic physics principles and calculations would help. The hardest part of the assessment was the psychometric test and I found it quite challenging.
Did you do seperate exams for maths and physics last year? Guessing they're all full working too and probably no multi choice. Just trying to figure out which topics to study up on!

[Stricko101]

Did you do seperate exams for maths and physics last year? Guessing they're all full working too and probably no multi choice. Just trying to figure out which topics to study up on!

The entire exam was computer based split into separate sections. All the questions were multiple choice which I believe is intentional, as every aspect of the exam was under time constraints and I recon the examiners want to see how you perform under pressure and examine your accuracy/speed.

[CloudMusterer]

The entire exam was computer based split into separate sections. All the questions were multiple choice which I believe is intentional, as every aspect of the exam was under time constraints and I recon the examiners want to see how you perform under pressure and examine your accuracy/speed.

The email from virgin explicitly says the theory exam will be written, so I reckon FTA do their testing a little differently to CAE.

[Stricko101]

The email from virgin explicitly says the theory exam will be written, so I reckon FTA do their testing a little differently to CAE.

Written Comprehension exams
PILAPT Test

Yep, the english/grammar comprehension will definitely be a written exam but the PILAPT test I recon will be mainly multiple choice but we will just have to wait and see!

[shareennottle]

Hi there, my son also got to send the video where he has to answer the 3 questions in 2 minutes. He has now been invited to the assessment day in Adelaide

[CloudMusterer]

Hi there, my son also got to send the video where he has to answer the 3 questions in 2 minutes. He has now been invited to the assessment day in Adelaide

What's the date of the Adelaide assessment day? The Sydney assessment day is the 8th of August.

[shareennottle]

2nd of August

[shareennottle]

Hi Shareen,

Can I ask when exactly was your son received the assessment day invitation Email? I received mine last week as well but I was just wondering how come I haven't been allocated one yet. Thanks

25.06.2018

[shareennottle]

Funny, if it had been 5 out of 8 cadets were male, this discussion wouldnt be happening!

[CloudMusterer]

At the moment we know about:

Adelaide
2nd August

Sydney
8th August
9th August

Is anyone attending an assessment day that is not on the list above? I figure if we know how many assessment days there are, then we can estimate how many people are left in the application pool.

[compasshr]

Funny, if it had been 5 out of 8 cadets were male, this discussion wouldnt be happening!

How do you mean? Just from general probability, more of the applications would be from males given the industry.

[girlsflytoo]

CloudMusterer

Yes, I have my interview on the 24th of July in Brisbane

[shareennottle]

Hi girlsflytoo, congratulations on making it so far. Was it as scary or as hard as you thought it was going to be? What impressed you the most about Virgin Australia?
All communication that I have had with VA and the flight school has been outstanding. They were all super friendly, honest and encouraging. I have been living in Germany for nearly 27 years so trust me you learn to appreciate the difference in cultures and really really appreciate the Australian friendliness and amazingly good manners. If I would be young again like my son I would also enjoy the opportunity to work for such a company.

[wannaB_pilot]

I have an assessment day on the 30th of July in Melbourne. Also congrats to everyone else who has an assessment day!

[CloudMusterer]

I have an assessment day on the 30th of July in Melbourne. Also congrats to everyone else who has an assessment day!

Congrats! How did you find your assessment day?

[wannaB_pilot]

Congrats! How did you find your assessment day?
It was alright! There's a total of 120 people invited to assessment days, so anyone who got invited to one should be proud of themselves. They've narrowed it down from 4000 applicants already.

[compasshr]

It was alright! There's a total of 120 people invited to assessment days, so anyone who got invited to one should be proud of themselves. They've narrowed it down from 4000 applicants already.

Congrats! Got to ask - was there anything you found particularly difficult?

[Stricko101]

It was alright! There's a total of 120 people invited to assessment days, so anyone who got invited to one should be proud of themselves. They've narrowed it down from 4000 applicants already.
Did they indicate how many candidates they were selecting?

[Tommy Bahama]

Hi girlsflytoo, congratulations on making it so far. Was it as scary or as hard as you thought it was going to be? What impressed you the most about Virgin Australia?
All communication that I have had with VA and the flight school has been outstanding. They were all super friendly, honest and encouraging. I have been living in Germany for nearly 27 years so trust me you learn to appreciate the difference in cultures and really really appreciate the Australian friendliness and amazingly good manners. If I would be young again like my son I would also enjoy the opportunity to work for such a company.

Good God wait till you start.

[notabove500]

I wonder how long the whole process will take :

[tail wheel]

A word of warning to the Wannabes:

The major Australian airlines may not appreciate their recruitment and assessment policies, dates etc discussed on a professional pilot bulletin board. Some of those airline pilots carrying out applicant assessments also post on PPRuNe.

I recommend you cease the personal discussion including posting interview and assessment dates, lest you are identified resulting in the possibility of being "overlooked" for employment?

Also PPRuNe is a bulletin of matters of general interest, not an aviation Facebook for personal chats.

Thanks

Tail Wheel

[Kaan Kublay]

Anyone know when VA likes to advertise their cadet program? Also would anyone like to share their past experiences or things they have heard about it?
Thanks.

[Kaan Kublay]

Anyone know when VA advertises their cadetship and any information about it with relation to success rate and if it is a good option to apply for?
Thanks.