A Good Send Off

[ian16th]

A good send off and a question (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/war-hero-d-day-veteran-12856789)

Anyone aware of the story of 619 Sqdn or any other Sqdn not getting a crest?

[goudie]

Who is responsible for designing a Sqdn crest? Is it someone 'volunteered' by the CO? Most of the ones I have seen are quite good.

[Bing]

273 Squadron never had their crest officially approved, full details why and that apply to some other squadrons were discussed in the Houses of Parliament.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiniZaekJLTAhXHLsAKHaVcBesQFgg0MAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhansard.millbanksystems.com%2Fcommons%2F199 6%2Fjun%2F12%2F273-squadron-badge&usg=AFQjCNEPxOHLCQjoeR0kmoDpxrdYyKGDKg

[Pontius Navigator]

I note the five year rule. When Bomber Command became Strike Command there was no delay in creation of a new crest.

As far as design is concerned, 12 Sqn crest features a Fox mask and the motto Leads the Field. This design was chosen as it was the only squadron to operate the Fairy Fox and foxes naturally lead the field.

[BEagle]

These are not 'crests', they are 'badges' in heraldic parlance - or so some sniffy so-and-so once told us after an attempt to create one was made for 1312 Flt.

[ian16th]

I note the five year rule. When Bomber Command became Strike Command there was no delay in creation of a new crest.

It was after my time, but wasn't Strike Command a merger of Bomber, Fighter and Coastal Commands?

[Pontius Navigator]

Ian, indeed, that may have been the get out clause, but . . .

Did 360 have to wait 5 years?

[Innominate]

"When Bomber Command became Strike Command there was no delay in creation of a new crest" - a new badge can be created based on one that has previously been approved for a unit with a similar role. Such badges are known as "close copies".

12 Sqn's motto "Leads the field" not only reflects the chasing of foxes, but also the fact that the Fairey Fox - a bomber - was apparently faster than the fighters in service at the time!

[Could be the last?]

My understanding is that to award a Sqn or Unit badge there has to be no less than 75 permanent staff on the nominal roll. This came to light when a trg unit in Lincs, with 40 staff, tried to reinstate the original badge it was awarded back in the 30's. Not withstanding it had, on average, 80-100 students at any given time, the agency who authorises the award of badges would not budge. I think they just removed the crown and used it anyway..............

[Pontius Navigator]

Cbtl, with a uniformed strength of 4 and total of 20, we got ours. The STC badge and our own name. Mundy's then made the shields for us.

[ian16th]

The Royal Air Force Liaison Party had a strength of about 23 and we had a badge. Though, we were a detachment from Transport Command HQ, at Uphaven and the badge was only a slight modification of the Transport Command one.
http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz108/ian16th/RAFLP%20Badge.jpg?t=1491551587

Still got it and the happy memories 60 years later:ok:

[superplum]

It was after my time, but wasn't Strike Command a merger of Bomber, Fighter and Coastal Commands?

+ Air Support Command.
:cool:

[ian16th]

+ Air Support Command.
:cool:
That cause me to 'do a Giggle', I see that the changes and additions were 'progressive'.

From that impeccable source Wiki:
Strike Command was formed on 30 April 1968 by the merger of Bomber Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command) and Fighter Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fighter_Command),[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Strike_Command#cite_note-time60-1) which became No. 1 Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1_Group_RAF) and No. 11 Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._11_Group_RAF) respectively. Signals Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Signals_Command) was absorbed on 1 January 1969,[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Strike_Command#cite_note-2) Coastal Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Coastal_Command) was absorbed on 28 November 1969[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Strike_Command#cite_note-3) and Air Support Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Air_Support_Command) (formerly Transport Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Transport_Command)) was absorbed on 1 September 1972.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Strike_Command#cite_note-4)

All too complicated for an old man like me. In my time the only changes I can remember, 90 Group was promoted to become Signals Command and 2TAF became RAF Germany, and the changes in NEAF/MEAF/FEAF which were always fluid.

[PPRuNeUser0139]

This place might yield some tips.
Naval, Military and R.A.F. Insignia - College of Arms (http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/services/naval-military-raf)

[Pontius Navigator]

That Hansard report was classic Sir Humphrey. Deny all knowledge. Obfuscate. Procrastinate. Obdurate.

[gr4techie]

A good send off and a question (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/war-hero-d-day-veteran-12856789)

Anyone aware of the story of 619 Sqdn or any other Sqdn not getting a crest?

TTTE
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/TTTE.jpg/240px-TTTE.jpg

[Herod]

At the risk of getting back to the original post, perhaps a bit of respect for a man who put his future at risk that we may enjoy our present?

[rlsbutler]

Thanks to SideValve at #14 for the link.

Having had a schoolboy enthusiasm for heraldry, I chose for my final year thesis at Cranwell the subject of heraldry in the RAF. This got me to London for an extra visit home, for spells in the marvellous Reading Room of the British Museum and for (I think) just one visit to the College of Arms.

The Inspector of Royal Air Force Badges was still Sir John Heaton-Armstrong, 26 years in the role and by then Clarenceux King of Arms. These heralds have a life time of working scholarship. My ignorance of almost everything that Sir John knew must have been a trial for him, but he was marvellously patient with me.

Anybody who can wangle a visit to the College should do so. The building is a treasure, a small surprise between plain modern office buildings. It has been on the same site for well over 400 years. It might have started as rather ordinary and it has had more than its fair share of fire and war damage, but with its handsome gates, wood panelling, gorgeous parchments and gracious habits, it epitomises every form of aristocracy. The humble Royal Air Force badge (in its many forms) seems a bit of an intruder on such premises.

Actually one sees a very satisfactory parade of badges on the walls of the RAF Club. They seem to be official copies of whatever the Inspector authorises and are a credit to whomever in the club looks after them.

My interest in heraldry of fifty or more years ago has pretty well evaporated. I am though still prissy enough to twitch when our badges are called “crests”.

[Nomorefreetime]

My uncle was KIA with 619 Sqn and there is a very active group on FB.

[Tankertrashnav]

Who is responsible for designing a Sqdn crest? Is it someone 'volunteered' by the CO? Most of the ones I have seen are quite good.

A friend of mine, the late Dennis Endean Ivall, was a talented heraldic artist and although originally a Londoner was a Cornish speaker and a Bard of the Cornish Gorsedd. He was asked to design the badge of 2625 (County of Cornwall) Squadron, RAuxAF Regiment, which was based at RAF St Mawgan until its disbandment in 2006. The badge is shown here.

2625 History (http://www.2625.co.uk/history.html)

The Badge of 2625 Squadron that received Royal Approval in 1989 shows a bayonet superimposed on the cross of St Piran, the patron saint of Cornwall. The Squadron motto was Onen Hag Ol (One and All).

As far as I know this was the only RAF unit to have a motto in the Cornish language.

[goudie]

Thanks TTN
I was impressed by the RAF Scampton one when it re- opened with the Vulcan.
In the form of a bow and arrow with the bow representing the large curve that had been made in the dead straight Roman road to facilitate the runway lengthening and the arrow, of course, being the Vulcan

[4mastacker]

At the risk of getting back to the original post, perhaps a bit of respect for a man who put his future at risk that we may enjoy our present?

Perhaps some respect should have been shown by the cretin with the chainsaw if he had bothered to stop for a few moments whilst the Last Post was played.

[Herod]

Agreed, but as you say, a cretin. Doesn't apply to us though, does it?

[Roland Pulfrew]

Here you go: RAF Heraldry Trust (http://www.rafht.co.uk/):ok: