Cathay Interview Change?

[aviationluver]

I interviewed with Cathay over 10 years ago. Back then an initial written test and one-on-one interview took place in NYC. Then, a few weeks later, I did the complete interview in HK. Unfortunately, I didn't get hired.

I might be interviewing in a few months. The Cathay recruiter told me over the phone that the interview process has changed.

Now, there is no pre-interview. Just a flight to HK and the first order of business is sim eval in the B747-400. If you do well on the sim eval, then medical and group exercise and one-on-one. Is this correct?

Can anyone give me more information? Thanks.

[Brown Nose]

I believe the interview has changed.

Now they ask a few simple questions;

Have you got 2 arms and 2 legs?
Have you got a pulse?
Are you willing to sign a Sh!t contract?

Answer these correctly and you in!

[Basil]

BN, stick with the day job; stand-up is not for you :)

[aviationluver]

BN, do you work for Cathay?

[broadband circuit]

BN, do you work for Cathay?

Either he works for Cathay or he's made a VERY lucky guess at the process.

Here's a precis of the process sourced from someone working for Cathay:

Have you got 2 arms and 2 legs?
Have you got a pulse?
Are you willing to sign a Sh!t contract?

Answer these correctly and you're in!

[LongTimeInCX]

Hey Basil,
Well I thought BN was correct,(&funny!), and that is such a terrible shame that if it wasn't so true it would have been really funny.
As for the OP, if you're another 10 years down the track, hopefully having accrued more useful and relevant experience, it begs the question why you'd now wish to come to a place where T&C's are in constant decline, and to live in a place where the pollution is woeful.
That said, the other crew we work with are almost always great people to be with, and for me, along with payday are the only 2 things that keep me here, and that's only for another 6-12 months.
Try the other CX forum on the wannabes section, as there's normally a lot of keen minded individuals who disperse the latest gen on their interview and selection process there.
Good luck, but due diligence is the key with this circus.
You may be having to deal with people who can compare an $8bn fuel hedging loss (by faceless individuals who still remain unaccountable) with a pilots hard landing. Unf@kn believable!

[Will fly for Cash]

If you interviewed in NYC 10 years ago, then presumably you are a US citizen? If so, considering the giant hiring wave and upswing in contracts in the USA, why even consider CX?

[pfvspnf]

Because 120k USD a year is better than 40k USD a year

[pfvspnf]

Yup HK sucks your lives are so miserable , even the constant sand and dust and lack of laws in the Middle East is better than the SAR. Nobody should move to HK , nobody should even consider it. Continue at $40k a year in the US. You are far better off.

[Basil]

ISTR that Cathay requires a high degree of competence, esp when being dicked around.
That being the case, why don't those competent but disaffected pilots who post on here leave and be welcomed in the ME or other parts?

[McNugget]

ISTR that Cathay requires a high degree of competence, esp when being dicked around.
That being the case, why don't those competent but disaffected pilots who post on here leave and be welcomed in the ME or other parts?

Quite.....

[JayTee777300]

Dear Aviationluver & pfvspnf et al,

Whilst BN's message was delivered with a certain amount of humor and derision please believe that there is a msg in there.

We are only trying to help. I am quite surprised when guys come on here trying to help out or share info only to be shot down by guys who have never spent a day in the company yet feel a need to defend a job they've never had... Telling the guys who are actually here that they have it wrong.

The company is full of young guys who have ignored this message, yet almost immediately after arriving have discovered they can't afford to live here, sending sorrowful letters to the president of the AOA claiming extreme hardship, and begging/threatening the union membership to role their package into contact compliance. Undoubtedly many of these guys came on here and ignored these posts.

Dear Aviationluver... I went through my recruiting roughly the same time as you went through last time. Please believe me when I say that the company, the morale, the lifestyle and roster, the benefits and the remuneration package (especially out of HK) are significantly less than what you would have seen last time around. If you are joining direct into a base... Maybe a different story...

For anybody else reading this please realise I am just trying to help. No need to tell me I'm wrong... Because I'm here. No need to justify your decision to me... That's yours to make... I can't stop you. When you ask why I don't go to the ME... It's because I joined on a different package... I personally would not have uprooted my family to come to HK to join on yours.
But please don't read this msg and then sit beside me on the flight deck in 2yrs and complain that the union needs to fix your package because you didn't realise you couldn't afford to live in HK. The information is here... Don't get locked into only one outcome and disregard good advice simply because it doesn't match the outcome you were looking for. You wouldn't do that in an aircraft would you?

Good luck with the interview aviationluver... Sorry I don't have updated info for you... The last time I set foot in recruiting finding out info for my friends was about 2009... When they reduced all the packages and my friends all withdrew their apps.

[McNugget]

What's wrong in trying to better your conditions? You seem to be taking it all a bit personally, JT. It isn't. It's just the game.

I will get what I can, though I will not sell the other demographics AOA out to do so.

If I see something better, I will go for that.

That's the way the world works nowadays.

[swh]

If you interviewed in NYC 10 years ago, then presumably you are a US citizen? If so, considering the giant hiring wave and upswing in contracts in the USA, why even consider CX?

In the US there the Pilot Records Improvement Act mandates checks a number of federal databases and requires previous carriers to provide records.

If you work for an overseas airline, those FAA requirements need not be complied with, so if you had a DUI on the federal database, it might disqualify you from a job in the US, but not in HKG. Meanwhile while you work for an overseas airline, the time goes on and your old FAA get expunged after a period of time and are no longer reported under a Pilot Records Improvement Act process.

[McNugget]

In the US there the Pilot Records Improvement Act mandates checks a number of federal databases and requires previous carriers to provide records.

If you work for an overseas airline, those FAA requirements need not be complied with, so if you had a DUI on the federal database, it might disqualify you from a job in the US, but not in HKG. Meanwhile while you work for an overseas airline, the time goes on and your old FAA get expunged after a period of time and are no longer reported under a Pilot Records Improvement Act process.

To my knowledge, PRIA is for checkride records. It came into being after a Colgan skipper with literally a dozen checkride failures stalled a Dash 8 into some houses in upstate New York.

You still need to get an FBI check done, and list any conviction, expunged or otherwise. They still show on an FBI check, but show as expunged.

[swh]

To my knowledge, PRIA is for checkride records. It came into being after a Colgan skipper with literally a dozen checkride failures stalled a Dash 8 into some houses in upstate New York.

The National Driver Registry and National Crime Information Center are also compared by the FAA every time you do a medical (which asks about your administrative actions or convictions on your driving record) it will show the discrepancy between medical questions and convictions of misdemeanors and felonies. Pilots who fail to declare everything on the medical are subject to enforcement by the FAA which stay on record for 5 years.

Work for an overseas airline for 5 years and then you have a clean FAA record.

[JayTee777300]

What's wrong in trying to better your conditions? You seem to be taking it all a bit personally, JT. It isn't. It's just the game.

I will get what I can, though I will not sell the other demographics AOA out to do so.

If I see something better, I will go for that.

That's the way the world works nowadays.

Agreed. Absolutely nothing wrong with bettering your conditions... But don't come here expecting to do so... And certainly don't come here pretending you didn't know and pressuring your colleagues to suffer so they can help you out.

As for taking it personally... I guess it kinda gets a bit personal when you commit your career, your family, and your whole life to a company.
A job in your home country... Sure... Give it a whirl, move on if you don't like it. But moving to HK. Its not a simple or cheap process, picking up family and moving to another country. Kids give up school, family and friends. Partners giving up jobs, family and friends. Try building a life for you and your family there when you've always got 1 foot out the door. Not really that much of a fun game I've gotta say.

Sure... It might be easy if you are single and don't plan on having family here... But some us have other people to think about, so we aren't as foot loose and fancy free.

[mngmt mole]

If you are single, you can take a job here and 'just' get by. You won't really save anything, but probably have a good time. If however you are married, or have ANY intention of establishing a real life, family, kids etc, coming here WILL most likely prove the worst decision you ever make. Your wife WILL be miserable, your kids insecure and unhappy. Don't say you haven't been warned.

[McNugget]

Work for an overseas airline for 5 years and then you have a clean FAA record.

You may have a clean FAA record, so discrepancies when you do your medical may not be found, but you won't have a clean FBI record, and you never will. That's the one you need initially for employment.

People get turfed out regularly from new-hire classes for failing to disclose convictions from the dim & distant past. These are the ones brought up by the company mandated FBI checks, not discrepancies on the FAA database. At that point, your career (at least in the US) is over.

Equally, plenty of folk have got hired while being honest and listing DUIs etc from the past.

If they find the skeleton, you've had it.

[McNugget]

Agreed. Absolutely nothing wrong with bettering your conditions... But don't come here expecting to do so... And certainly don't come here pretending you didn't know and pressuring your colleagues to suffer so they can help you out.

As for taking it personally... I guess it kinda gets a bit personal when you commit your career, your family, and your whole life to a company.
A job in your home country... Sure... Give it a whirl, move on if you don't like it. But moving to HK. Its not a simple or cheap process, picking up family and moving to another country. Kids give up school, family and friends. Partners giving up jobs, family and friends. Try building a life for you and your family there when you've always got 1 foot out the door. Not really that much of a fun game I've gotta say.

Sure... It might be easy if you are single and don't plan on having family here... But some us have other people to think about, so we aren't as foot loose and fancy free.

I didn't come here expecting to better my conditions. That would have been equally out of sync with the rest of the industry. I knew exactly what I signed up for, and I've pressured nobody. While I'd like to see various improvements in my contract, I'm here voluntarily.

I completely understand your point about the gravity of moving family to the other side of the world. I agree entirely. However, if you make the decision to come, then you take the territory therein. It's not for the feint of heart, and doesn't work for many. It's also a massive ordeal to move back again. However, if you want out, then go. Nothing wrong with that. If you view that as not an option, then effectively you're not here voluntarily. What's the alternative?

[JayTee777300]

I completely understand your point about the gravity of moving family to the other side of the world. I agree entirely. However, if you make the decision to come, then you take the territory therein. It's not for the feint of heart, and doesn't work for many. It's also a massive ordeal to move back again.

I agree entirely with your point, and it's pretty much the point I am trying to make. It's not an easy thing. It's not for the feint of heart. New joiners need to look at this stuff seriously and consider all aspects of this gig. Don't just see the shiny jet and $... Even if it is better than your current job, think about where you would be in 5 and in 10yrs. This job at Cathay can affect so much more... And not all positively. For me I'm a professional, and I conduct myself professionally... So whilst we are constantly subject to petty power games and being nicked and dimed, most of the time it is not even really about the $, but the of lack of respect, verging on utter contempt from management that it demonstrates, that gets me down.

I'm just here trying to share some truths I wish I had of found out before I signed up (not saying I wouldn't have signed even if I did know... And I'm sure plenty of info was out there but I was too dumb to see it). Whilst my tone might at times indicate a bias, I think you'll find my comments to be mostly factual and fair.

[McNugget]

I agree entirely with your point, and it's pretty much the point I am trying to make. It's not an easy thing. It's not for the feint of heart. New joiners need to look at this stuff seriously and consider all aspects of this gig. Don't just see the shiny jet and $... Even if it is better than your current job, think about where you would be in 5 and in 10yrs. This job at Cathay can affect so much more... And not all positively.

I'm just here trying to share some truths I wish I had of found out before I signed up (not saying I wouldn't have signed even if I did know... And I'm sure plenty of info was out there but I was too dumb to see it). Whilst my tone might at times indicate a bias, I think you'll find my comments to be mostly factual and fair.

Can't disagree with any of that. Like I said, I knew what I was getting in to. For those that didn't apply due diligence; I don't feel sorry for them, but regret the outcome.

Like every job, you need to weigh it up, and you need to have an idea of where to turn if it isn't working out.

For me, it was a better job. It wasn't (and isn't) a lifetime commitment. I weighed up the negative effects of moving (and potentially moving back) against the positives. I did a great deal of research about what I was getting in to, and as such, I've had no surprises. It wasn't about the shiny jet for the shiny jet's sake. The training, type rating and type of operations factored in to my decision - as you say - where will it put you in 5-10 years time? Well, to be blunt, it has put me in a more marketable position than had I not joined. That gives me more places to turn if it falls apart for me.

For me, if it all folds tomorrow, it's been worth it. For some, it hasn't. That's all I can say. Remember that 'worth it' is different to 'perfect'.

[JayTee777300]

Well... Let's hope Cathay realise sometime soon that they aren't paying good money to train guys for a career at Cathay... Rather they are training guys for a career elsewhere.

Somehow I doubt they will work out soon though.

[stilton]

McNugget,


In the US arrests can nearly always be expunged when the charges are dropped, dismissed or of course you're found not guilty.


Not so convictions, it depends on the laws in that state

[Basil]

I left 15 years ago and must say that this has turned into an interesting discussion well worth reading by a potential candidate.

Re training pilots for other airlines; perhaps that's factored in.

[pfvspnf]

After tax , rent, gas , car and insurance , I had savings of around $100 each month . Whilst you lot enjoyed 10 beers in DB and got tanked at the rugby 7s. Just as you are doing now as we speak !

[aviationluver]

Thanks for your responses. I'm not a typical yank who would be applying. I'm single, no kids. I've traveled to many countries and have even taken short classes on cultural diversity. I've spent time in LA, so I know about expense and bad air.
However, the comments that are concerning about Cathay are the feelings of being disrespected by others and the low morale at Cathay. However, on the other hand, I worked at two regionals in the USA in the past and I felt like I was in junior high school when dealing with my coworkers. I'll never work at a regional again. I don't mind moving. Also, the direction the US is going with Donald Trump is making Cathay look more attractive.

[McNugget]

The morale is rock bottom, I'll give you that.

However, the vast, vast majority of my colleagues are great to be around in both a professional and social sense. Most are keen for a couple of beers at the end of a long flight, too.

[A3301FD]

Aviationluver:

As a US citizen working in the USA you enjoy 1st world labour protection. You have accountability (i.e. those who are complete f**ktards generally don't last that long).

Coming to Hong Kong Pong - there is no labour law protection, managers are lunatics that inspire one to commit violence upon them if the chance were to arise, and your contract was last used by someone else as toilet paper. You have no rights, no redress.

As previous posters have mentioned, the USA is or about to undergo a major hiring boom in the legacy carriers. Hang in for that...your quality of life (work, family, medical) will be much better.

Don't worry about "The Donald" - he has 4 years to either prove he was right or wrong, possibly shorter if he really screws the pooch.

I hear what you say about being treated like a child at a regional...magnify that exponentially to a 'premium' carrier and you have CX. I urge you in all sincerity to think carefully about coming to CX

If you do come to CX...could you kindly identify yourself a few years later so that we can all say "Told you so..."

[boofta]

Cathay is not a job
Its a whole working life committment to HK
Took me 26 years to land a job back home.
If you have a turbine job in your home country
hang on for dear life, it will lead to better things at home.
There is no surplus after living costs anymore, enjoy
your home country and life-long freinds,family.
Untimately thats all life is. Beware the cx trojan horse!

[Average Fool]

Enjoy your time at the regional.

You will look back on it with fondness one day.

That one day for me was the day I came to Hong Kong

[Beggar]

I interviewed with Cathay over 10 years ago. Back then an initial written test and one-on-one interview took place in NYC. Then, a few weeks later, I did the complete interview in HK. Unfortunately, I didn't get hired.

I might be interviewing in a few months. The Cathay recruiter told me over the phone that the interview process has changed.

Now, there is no pre-interview. Just a flight to HK and the first order of business is sim eval in the B747-400. If you do well on the sim eval, then medical and group exercise and one-on-one. Is this correct?

Can anyone give me more information? Thanks.

I received an invitation for an interview on June 19-20.
The interview will be as follows:
On Day 1
-Group Exercise
-Technical Quiz
-Simulator Assessment B-747(400/800)
You will receive an email notification at the end of Day 1
If you continue to Day 2, you must book the ASPEQ ICAO English Language Assessment and credit card will be required for payment.
On Day 2
-Interview (HR and Technical)
-Personality Profile (computer-based)
-ASPEQ ICAO English
-Medical
That's it!

[Average Fool]

Yep, that's it!

A whore is easy to meet.

[Luggage]

Can't disagree with any of that. Like I said, I knew what I was getting in to. For those that didn't apply due diligence; I don't feel sorry for them, but regret the outcome.

Like every job, you need to weigh it up, and you need to have an idea of where to turn if it isn't working out.

For me, it was a better job. It wasn't (and isn't) a lifetime commitment. I weighed up the negative effects of moving (and potentially moving back) against the positives. I did a great deal of research about what I was getting in to, and as such, I've had no surprises. It wasn't about the shiny jet for the shiny jet's sake. The training, type rating and type of operations factored in to my decision - as you say - where will it put you in 5-10 years time? Well, to be blunt, it has put me in a more marketable position than had I not joined. That gives me more places to turn if it falls apart for me.

For me, if it all folds tomorrow, it's been worth it. For some, it hasn't. That's all I can say. Remember that 'worth it' is different to 'perfect'.



I completely agree with that sentiment. If somebody wants to pay me a Delta Airline captains salary to fly a BE58 Baron I will do it.

I dont need the shiny A350 to feel good about myself but would take the job at CX, get the heavy time and with 2000 hours of international experience and just move on to greener pastures.

I will never ever be a company man because when the bad times hit the company will never ever have your back, just the shareholders and managements bonuses in mind. They will cut you loose regardless of your mortgage and childrens school fees, food etc.

Those who complain at CX, if you all just leave they will get their act together or go under. Go back to Aus, Europe, Canada, South Africa and the US etc. Use your well gained international experience and get jobs with KLM, Lufthansa, BA, Austrian, TAP, Delta, United, Qantas, Air NZ etc.

I have an interview offer there but as I fly a jet in the US I have heaps more options so dont need CX S..T in my life. However even if I did not I would go get a 777/330 rating of them, get 1000 hours plus and just move on if I went and got a CX job.

To hell with CX, do what is right for your future and your families. CX made their own bed now they must lie in it.

Im not American by the way either, I have Aus/British and South African citizenship. My passports help but there is always a way to work in various countries if you just do a little research and networking/marketing of yourself, yes even the US.:ok:

[pfvspnf]

Well said mate, do what's right for you !

[BlunderBus]

If you're just in it for the money.. join the club. But be warned that a 120k salary earned and spent in hk will not deliver the lifestyle it would afford in the USA. If you need a realistic insight to how you will be treated then just Google the company history of dealing with flight crew employees.. it's nothing short of appalling. And it's constant and relentless..the attack never lets up.. I've seen 25+ years of it and it's accelerating downhill. Forget the word career.. ask yourself where you want to be in only 5 years.. because I absolutely guarantee you that (if you survive 5 years under the training system here) you'll want to be anywhere but hk for a 'career '!! Good luck but please look out a little further than the end of your nose!!

[mngmt mole]

A $120k salary in HK will provide a similar lifestyle as if you were earning $50K in the US. And that is only if you are single. If you are married with children, it is below the poverty level. And i'm not kidding.

[stilton]

'you must book the ASPEQ ICAO English Language Assessment and credit card will be required for payment.'


What does this mean, applicants have to pay to test their English skills ?

[pfvspnf]

I can only comment for a young single person

50k usd a year is about $ 3,300 a month. I was on similar wages at some point.

Rent in a second tier city not really close to downtown was $900 for a small one bed. Food and beverage is about $20 - $40 a day depending on how much you go out , let's average it out at $30. Car , gas and insurance about $300. Cell phone TV internet about $150 . Miscellaneous (groceries , laundry, hydro , utilities ) another $350

Gives me savings of about $700, was usually far lower than that.

From a Google search and from friends and family that live in Hk .

Let's take a salary of net 100,000 HKD after taxes are paid

One bedroom in central or Kowloon side ?

Seeing anything between 17,000-30,000. Let's average at 25,000?

Daily food and beverages , let's assume 900 HKD a day ? Don't think people actually spend this much , especially if they are flying long haul .

Phone tv internet I read is quite cheap let's put it on the higher end 1000 per month ?

Utilities another 2000 per month ?

Transport another 3000?

Miscellaneous another 10,000?

That sums up to 68,000 , I'll round it up to 70,000hkd for your expenses .

Gives you 30k of savings which is $3,861 USD.

Am I missing something here ?

[azhkman]

@pfvspnf

I think the difference is in the size of the 1 bedroom apartment. In the second tier US City, $900 / month would get you a good sized, relatively nicely equipped 1 bedroom apartment.

In HK, it would be a very small place, with likely no separate dryer, no dishwasher, and a dorm room fridge. At 25k / month, it's either very small and really nice, or big and really old, like hot plates instead of a stove top old.

I contend if you are single, or even a couple, come to HK. It's high school for middle-aged people and lots of fun until you have kids, then it's a bit of a pain in the *ss.

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Let's take a salary of net 100,000 HKD after taxes are paid
Am I missing something here ?

Yes, let's just take a random number...

But seriously, how long do you think it will take you to get that salary?

Because for the first... 15 years(?) , you surely won't be getting as much.

[Trafalgar]

PFV. Entertainment (far more expensive than you realise), travel, clothes, toiletries (expensive)....and numerous other costs that 'just happen'...as most of us who have been alive a while know all too well about. Mngmt mole is spot on. You will live like a $50K/yr pilot in the USA, or with wife and kids be effectively at the poverty line.

[mrfox]

http://poverty.org.hk/sites/default/files/data-graphics/PovertyLine_2009to2014.jpg

[Apple Tree Yard]

You can argue statistics any way you wish. The reality is that the present package is barely adequate.

For a single person, it is livable. You don't really care that you live in a 400 sq ft shoe box. You have enough to enjoy yourself a few nights out a month. Can barely save any money.

For a married person, it is questionable. You may accept it because you are 'trying to establish your career'. Your wife however will feel claustrophobic within 6 months, and constantly be bitching to you that she never gets to go anywhere and hates the apartment/chinese/weather/etc. You will save a little perhaps for a rainy day fund.

For a married person with children. Welcome to hurt city. You will spend all your time dealing with a desperately unhappy wife, confused children and a very fragile home life. You will be crippled by the cost of schooling (if you can even get them into one), your wife will hate that you have no money to do anything, your kids will resent you because you can't provide them the life that many of their classmates enjoy. You will save nothing for the future.

There is not a recognisable package in HK that addresses the issues of retirement, medical and long term savings. CX expects you to have just enough to get by. After that, they really couldn't care less about your family's happiness or your need to plan for the long term. That's the reality.

If you come over, don't bother complaining to your colleagues how 'tough you have it'. There is plenty of info out there, so it's way past time where ignorance is an excuse.

[pfvspnf]

Your toiletries and random expenses are not covered at 900hkd a day ? And the 10,000 miscellaneous I just presented ?

You really pay 1000hkd a month for phone Netflix and tv?

Wow the cabin crew and ground staff must really be eating cup noodles all day long ...

[Trafalgar]

PFV, come one over. You sound JUST like the type of person our current management would like to hire. :D

[hkgcanuck]

The hyperbole in the arguments against coming to CX isn't really helping because it's so ridiculous that even the valid points are easy to dismiss. 25K/month for a place with a dorm fridge? Uh-huh, sure.

I couldn't agree more that coming to CX on the current package with a wife and kids is a stupid idea, but for a single person or a couple not planning on having kids anytime soon it's okay as long as CX is just a stepping stone.

Do not come here for a career unless you love pollution and are confident you want to be single forever.

[pfvspnf]

Zero interest in joining Cx, I'm just trying to make a point that for a single guy or gal the salary works .

I'm not denying the fact that your basket case management has taken advantage of you and are squeezing you out.

Coming from Africa, I know what real poverty looks like . These salaries are no where close to the hardships that people face on a daily basis.

[stilton]

If African poverty levels are where you're setting the bar you could be happy
just about anywhere.


Most people want a bit more.

[pfvspnf]

I really don't mean to be rude but nobody here has shown me the numbers otherwise except that random costs for a single person just comes up..

I agree completely that the management has to get their act together but the numberes make sense , it ain't going to make you baller but people live their lives in Hk for a lot less ..

Perhaps it's financial planning in addition to the bitching that will make life more happy, my two cents of course

[Shep69]

The airline business is all about seniority in general. In other words, gains in seniority are essentially a part of your pay and govern every aspect of your life at a career airline.

Given the way things have been trending you have to ask yourself is this going to be a viable career. Or have you heard ONE person say (again given events as of late) it's likely to be somewhere you'd want to spend the next 20 years of your life given the information you now have at present ? If your plan is try it and bail, remember that you've given up any seniority anywhere else and are kinda 'stuck' offshore far away from opportunities at home. And the 'Las Vegas' syndrome can be a powerful force in clouding future decisions.

The opportunity cost you have by coming to CX is the years you might be gaining seniority somewhere else. The equipment you operate or experience you gain will likely be worth diddly squat in career opportunity terms on a follow on carrier, although they (and bouncing around Asia and some other countries) might be a personal adventure for you.

If you have ulterior motives for coming to Asia you might have a marginally livable life under conditions which have been trending downward (more work for less pay and benefits). There is no rational reason to expect things to get better. You personally have little negotiation position to reverse this, and in HK can have work conditions (and your continued employment) essentially imposed on a whim. There are pie-in-the-sky promises of future 'stuff' but none have any validity until they actually happen; and historically when they have happened have been small opportunities for those at the top of a list on which you are at the bottom. And the history has been long on promises but way short on delivery.

So good luck; you have been well advised of the potential pitfalls of giving it a go.

[volare_737]

Could any of you guys living and working in Hong Kong come up with a figure, you think is enough and justified for the job we are doing to have a normal live in Hong Kong !!!! Would be interesting for us guys who are planning to move there. Captains and FO's inputs would be great !!! Thanks !!

[Trafalgar]

A lot more than they are offering !!!!! Really !!!! :mad:

[crwkunt roll]

Could any of you guys living and working in Hong Kong come up with a figure, you think is enough and justified for the job we are doing to have a normal live in Hong Kong !!!! Would be interesting for us guys who are planning to move there. Captains and FO's inputs would be great !!! Thanks !!
1. It's irrelevant what a Captain or most F/O's think. They joined on a proper expat package, so don't have your problem.
2. If you come here with no experience, then the salary you will receive is FAR IN EXCESS of a fair amount. It's obviously not about the money, so come anyway. You can save some yes, but be prepared to spend a lot more than what is quoted here. You are one lucky SOB to walk into an airline job without doing anything to achieve it. Suck it up and please don't complain to me.
3. If you are indeed experienced, then please have an open mind, it is not the be all and end all anymore.

[volare_737]

I did not really ask what a Cap or Fo at Cathay gets. Just a general salary required for a good live in HK. No matter if you are a pilot, teacher, bank executive or what ever !!!!!
Just a number would be good !!!!

[dogsandplanes]

I did not really ask what a Cap or Fo at Cathay gets. Just a general salary required for a good live in HK. No matter if you are a pilot, teacher, bank executive or what ever !!!!!
Just a number would be good !!!!

Depends how you define 'good'

At least 25K/month in rent
Owing a vehicle is basically luxury.

[OK4Wire]

Ok, I'll give it a try.

HKD180,000 per month will give you a "good live" in HKG.

That amount would approximate a comfortable life a decent upper middle-class (if there is a such a thing anymore) family would achieve in Aus/NZ/Canada.

[volare_737]

Thanks !!!

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Zero interest in joining Cx, I'm just trying to make a point that for a single guy or gal the salary works .

I'm not denying the fact that your basket case management has taken advantage of you and are squeezing you out.

Coming from Africa, I know what real poverty looks like . These salaries are no where close to the hardships that people face on a daily basis.

Like I pointed before: when do you think you will be earning 100000hkd a month after tax?
Not now, not even in 10 years.

Joining salary: 36000hkd + 10000hkd housing (before 12% tax - or 24% tax the first year)
How's that working with your numbers?

[pfvspnf]

Sorry I don't understand .

46k? Who is paying that for a DEFO ?

I'd expect to be making at least 100,000 as soon as I'm released to the line.

[cpapilot81]

36000HKD starting?
Yes, year one DEFO 100,000HKD.

[Zapp_Brannigan]

36,000 + 10,000 for a Second Officer.

If you're joining as a First officer, it's 81,000 + 14,000 housing, but before tax
(15% normally, double tax the first year), hardly 100,000 HKD after tax!

I have yet to meet a DEFO, but yes, it works for a single guy and even is a decent salary. Not so much to take care of a family.

If you come as a DEFO, it means you have experience, maybe a command already and might be employable in a major back home. I'd say lifestyle on starting salary would be similar to your current lifestyle in your home country, except you won't be able to buy a place, and the place you will be renting will be much smaller than the one you have in your home country (half the size at the most).

Please, just don't complain to me afterwards about how life is expensive in HK, how your (future) wife hates the pollution or how hard it is to commute.

I wish someone could post the letter written by one of our new hires to the AoA, complaining about how difficult he's having it on his current salary.

To live comfortably, I'd say you would need that same basic salary + 65,000HKD as housing in order to rent a place almost as big as the one you have back home. So 145,000HKD

[TurningFinalRWY36]

figures for SO are a bit off. must be looking at old pay scales

[jetjockey696]

well there is a family in who live the green life and only spend 8000 hkd..per month... it can be done.

How a ?green living? Hong Kong family survives on HK$8,000 monthly | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/2043134/how-green-living-hong-kong-family-survives-hk8000)

If you fancy a bachelor pad on hong kong island.. there is a new project in Wan Chai..North Point etc... Hong kong newest edition bachelor pads..

One Prestige project at Yuet Yuen Street in North Point.
Measuring 163 sq ft in floor area, the apartment will be the tiniest available on Hong Kong island when completed in August 2018. Each studio unit comprises a 60 sq ft bedroom that doubles as a dining area, a 20 sq ft bathroom, and an open kitchen. Half of the studio’s available space is taken up by a standard bed measuring 6 feet by 4, plus a sofa.

Prices for the 33-storey apartment with 207 units have not been revealed.

However, One Prestige is not even the title holder for smallest unit size in the Hong Kong SAR.

That dubious honour goes to the AVA62 apartments in Jordan, north of Victoria Harbour in Kowloon. Each unit in AVA62, built by Wisdom Gaining, measures 152 sq ft, including a 21 sq ft balcony. Despite its size, AVA62 sells for about HK$20,000 (2500USD) per square feet, putting the average unit at about HK$3 million (400000 USD).

http://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/images/methode/2016/09/02/7e45e26a-710e-11e6-af03-e675d0741f8a_image_hires.jpg

Hong Kong developers rush to build ever smaller homes, but buyer beware | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/2013050/hong-kong-developers-rush-build-ever-smaller-homes-buyer)

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Mea Culpa.
I, indeed, quoted wrong figures for Second Officers.

Joining salary is 40,700hkd before tax.

[roll_over]

Coming from the unmentionable desert airline, whenever we are in Hong Kong everyone says they same thing. We can't believe how expensive it is going out for dinner and drinks in some fairly average places in the Mid Levels. I would say that our perspective of what is cheap and expensive is already a little skewed as our home base is not particularly cheap either.

[JayTee777300]

Hi PFVSPNF et al,


I apologise. I've had a busy month and no time to prune. Coming back to this thread late but PFV you've asked someone to 'show you the numbers otherwise' so here is a quick rundown.




Let's take a salary of net 100,000 HKD after taxes are paid

One bedroom in central or Kowloon side ?

Seeing anything between 17,000-30,000. Let's average at 25,000?

Daily food and beverages , let's assume 900 HKD a day ? Don't think people actually spend this much , especially if they are flying long haul .

Phone tv internet I read is quite cheap let's put it on the higher end 1000 per month ?

Utilities another 2000 per month ?

Transport another 3000?

Miscellaneous another 10,000?

That sums up to 68,000 , I'll round it up to 70,000hkd for your expenses .

Gives you 30k of savings which is $3,861 USD.

Am I missing something here ?



First... you won't hit $100,000HKD after tax until you become a skipper... which will be around 12+ years regardless of whether you join as a DEFO or SO. If you join as an DEFO $81k salary + $14k housing = $95k... minus 17% tax = $79k. So there is $21k of your $30k projected savings gone right away. Even after 10years you will top out on the FO pay scales at less than $100k (inc housing) after tax. If you join as an SO you are further in the hurt locker at half that.


The rest of your numbers are in the realms of reasonableness however depending upon how you want to live, your food and your miscellaneous needs to be higher. If you want to sit at home every night by yourself and eat 'local' chinese then you will be fine. BUT if you want to head out with your new friends for dinner and a drink - $2000/per night (on an average night - not big). Lunch and a couple of beers - $500. You've gobbled up your entire miscellaneous in only 4 (small) nights and 4 lunches out - in a month. Want to eat nice food at home? Milk or meat or fruit are 3-4 times more expensive than the USA. Do you like driving a car? Petrol is almost $7.50USD/gal. Buy some clothes? (Does that come out of miscellaneous?) A Movie? Haircut? Soap? New computer? iPad? New phone? A concert? A hobby? (miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous?) You get the point. It's the little things here that drain your savings. That extra money will disappear quick. But it is doable as a single guy.


But now here is the catch. Assuming you like chicks, are an average likeable guy, and aren't butt ugly... by the time you are approaching the magical $100k (post tax) figure at 12yrs from now, chances are you have a wife and kid(s) (because hey... even for the devoutly "I'm just coming to HK as a single guy" crowd... few people stay single forever!). Hell... your kids could be 6 or 8 yrs old by now! And now you are going backwards. The first place I rented with my missus 10+yrs ago was a 2 bedroom in town. It cost me $30k/mth (10yrs ago!). You want somewhere OK for your family (roughly 1/4 the size of a place in the USA)? $40k+. Want a yard for your kids to run in? Forget it. Most don't have one (or pay $55k+). School - after my $50k entry levy/child (thats one of the cheap ones!) - and after CX's contribution - I'm still out of pocket $8400/mth /child! (Thats not including all the little school extras).


Now here's where people say "I'll just do a few years here and then leave and get a gig elsewhere after I get my big shiny jet ticket"... in which case I say, if you've got good enough quals for a DEFO gig at CX, chances are you'll be able to get on seniority list at a major in the states - and if not now, maybe in another year or two? As far as I know airlines are about seniority (well... not really at Cathay... it means very little - talk to all the SO guys who have been screwed by DEFO's previously, or 747 guys who can't bid off their fleet in accordance with their seniority only to watch DEFO new joiners guys take the spots they want on Airbus - seniority here means squat... but I digress)... so IN OTHER major airlines seniority means something... so why would you waste 5-10yrs of it here only to go home and join at the bottom and start all over again.


But in the end... after all the money is tallied - and whether you are ahead or behind financially - what it really comes down to is "Are you happy here?" and "How much sacrifice do you make to (not) get ahead?" Family? Friends? Job satisfaction? Health? Lifestyle? Hobbies? And for more and more guys, as the screws are tightened in one area (finances or job satisfaction or work life balance) it makes it harder to justify the sacrifices in other areas (family or friends or lifestyle).


Anyway... I've tried to keep my post relatively factual and hopefully helpful. If you still want to take the gig no problems... no need to justify it to me... it's your decision to make... I'm just providing the facts as requested.