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Icarus2001
2nd Apr 2017, 02:36
The other threads centered around the Bali debacle appear to have been removed. I thought the fleet change warranted a new thread of its own.

Can anyone shed any light on where the recruited guys are at? Are they doing type ratings, going to the A320, being let go?

Basically what is happening with regard to the change to 737? If in fact it is still happening.

Tigerair Australia to switch from A320 to 737 over next three years | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/07/tigerair-australia-to-switch-from-a320-to-737-over-next-three-years/)

Tigerair Australia to add fourth 737 to fleet in December | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/10/tigerair-australia-to-add-fourth-737-to-fleet-in-december/)

BPA
2nd Apr 2017, 03:04
Still going ahead, just at a slower pace due to no DPS flying.

717tech
2nd Apr 2017, 03:59
They never recruited externally onto the 737, it never got that far.

The whole Virgin Australia operation is in the air at the moment. There has never been more chances of the leader being shown the door. With that hopefully comes some actual common sense in holding onto the Airbus operation.

They have lost alot of good and experienced Airbus drivers already.


Tiger Air certainly did recruit onto the 737 externally.

galdian
2nd Apr 2017, 04:03
Yes they recruited - or went through a process.

The Q is: has anyone been offered, and signed, a contract??
Oh - and a fixed, confirmed start date??

Cheers.

davidclarke
2nd Apr 2017, 04:37
Yes they recruited - or went through a process.

The Q is: has anyone been offered, and signed, a contract??
Oh - and a fixed, confirmed start date??

Cheers.

Yes, quite a few contractors have been recruited onto the 737 and have been thru the type rating and started. They just aren't doing much ATM.......

galdian
2nd Apr 2017, 05:16
OK - just to clarify Captains or F/O's or both?

Cheers.

davidclarke
2nd Apr 2017, 05:23
OK - just to clarify Captains or F/O's or both?

Cheers.

Just F/O's.....

Icarus2001
2nd Apr 2017, 05:36
They never recruited externally onto the 737, it never got that far.

Tiger Air certainly did recruit onto the 737 externally.

Yes they recruited - or went through a process.

I know it's a rumour network but is it possible to refrain from posting if you are guessing WHEELS DOWN.

Yes, quite a few contractors have been recruited onto the 737 and have been thru the type rating and started.

So type rated FOs but no flying at present? Not being seconded over to VA?

I guess there should be progress getting the B737 on the AOC then?

Seems like the timing is off if they are sitting around doing nothing.

BPA
2nd Apr 2017, 06:12
The timing is off due to no DPS flying, as DPS was to be the first B737 Destination.

Expect the B737 flying to spool up at the end of this month or early May.

coaldemon
2nd Apr 2017, 07:18
They apparently recruited one of CASA's top managers to help them get it all done. Started a few months ago so they should be getting close.

Snakecharma
2nd Apr 2017, 07:21
Oh spare me

Lookleft
2nd Apr 2017, 08:05
If he started a few months ago he has probably just finished sorting out the pens on his desk!

compressor stall
2nd Apr 2017, 10:08
Latest I heard was tiger staying Airbus and the 737s going back to white with red writing....

BPA
2nd Apr 2017, 11:14
Latest I heard was tiger staying Airbus and the 737s going back to white with red writing....

Only one 737 has returned to VA and it will be heading back to Tiger in May, hence it's flying around (all white) with no markings on it.

The removal of the Tiger A320's is part of the group fleet simplification plan.

VH-ABC
3rd Apr 2017, 00:53
There's a plan BPA?

Octane
3rd Apr 2017, 02:00
So, grab a Virgin 737, paint it into Tiger colours for a few months until things go pear shaped then paint it back into a Virgin for a while until it's time to repaint it back into a Tiger again?!
What a blast for the paint companies :}
Would love to know how much money and downtime has been spent on paint!
How much does it cost to paint a 737 anyway? Anyone?
Presumably the old paint has to be removed first to maintain payloads? I'm assuming it's hundreds of kilos of paint involved? No idea...

BPA
3rd Apr 2017, 02:48
So, grab a Virgin 737, paint it into Tiger colours for a few months until things go pear shaped then paint it back into a Virgin for a while until it's time to repaint it back into a Tiger again?!
What a blast for the paint companies :}
Would love to know how much money and downtime has been spent on paint!
How much does it cost to paint a 737 anyway? Anyone?
Presumably the old paint has to be removed first to maintain payloads? I'm assuming it's hundreds of kilos of paint involved? No idea...

It wasn't been painted back into VA colours, it's all white ie they have just removed the Tiger livery.

Octane
3rd Apr 2017, 04:31
Ah, a bit of paint stripper? Not so expensive then. Apologies..

Deano969
3rd Apr 2017, 06:25
Not getting why fleet simplification is such a big when you have a 1 type fleet of A320s ?

Icarus2001
3rd Apr 2017, 06:47
have a 1 type fleet of A320s ?

Across the Virgin group. Think of the big picture.

virginexcess
3rd Apr 2017, 08:02
They apparently recruited one of CASA's top managers to help them get it all done. Started a few months ago so they should be getting close.

That clown exemplifies everything that is bad about CASA. I highly doubt that the operation will be better off having him there but it does serve to highlight the absolute vaccum of quality aviation managers in Australia.

Deano969
3rd Apr 2017, 08:11
Totally get "across the Virgin group"
But just how much is shared
VA won't even fly a 737 in Tiger colours for a couple of months and VA are running a couple of 320s in WA

Separate admin, crew and attendants but I get that there would be savings for ground staff and maintenance

Likely more to do with finding homes for all the shiny new 737s they have committed to

VA seem to have no issue with going out and ordering new planes every few years and flogging of 5-6 year old frames in a buyers market
Maybe this is why QF is doing so much better with a fleet age of nearly 11 years versus VA at less than 7 years and less than 2 years away from a single isle fleet replacement

Why they don't buy their frames at the end of lease and run them up to 10-15 years old is just ludicrous
REX and Alliance both have fleets of over 20 year old frames and with the exception of the occasional prop falling off, they are both making better profits than VA
Alliance picked up their F70s and F100s for under $1 million each...or the 30 or so that they bought would still be less than 1 of VAs new 737s
Yes they drink more, but still....

davidclarke
3rd Apr 2017, 08:49
Question, how does virgin have enough 737s to release to tiger when the are taking over the flying from the 18 odd Ejets being retired and also delaying the Max until at least late 2019?

BPA
3rd Apr 2017, 09:03
Question, how does virgin have enough 737s to release to tiger when the are taking over the flying from the 18 odd Ejets being retired and also delaying the Max until at least late 2019?

Yes they do, with each aircraft flying more hours per day, rather than parked up for 2-4 hours a day. Remember not all Ejet flying will be replaced by 737 flying with Alliance picking up some of the flying as well.

Falling Leaf
3rd Apr 2017, 11:30
Remember not all Ejet flying will be replaced by 737 flying with Alliance picking up some of the flying as well.

Which of course is a direct contravention to every communication from VA management regarding this issue...'All E-jet flying will be replaced with the 737..."

chuboy
3rd Apr 2017, 12:19
Alliance will replace the 737 routes that don't have frames on them because the 737s are covering the E-jets ;)

coaldemon
4th Apr 2017, 06:23
They also have at least 6 NG's coming and are holding onto B737's that were going to be lease returns from memory. All adds up to more pilots required.

Skystar320
4th Apr 2017, 09:56
250kg of paint on a 737

AerialPerspective
5th Apr 2017, 15:39
Totally get "across the Virgin group"
But just how much is shared
VA won't even fly a 737 in Tiger colours for a couple of months and VA are running a couple of 320s in WA

Separate admin, crew and attendants but I get that there would be savings for ground staff and maintenance

Likely more to do with finding homes for all the shiny new 737s they have committed to

VA seem to have no issue with going out and ordering new planes every few years and flogging of 5-6 year old frames in a buyers market
Maybe this is why QF is doing so much better with a fleet age of nearly 11 years versus VA at less than 7 years and less than 2 years away from a single isle fleet replacement

Why they don't buy their frames at the end of lease and run them up to 10-15 years old is just ludicrous
REX and Alliance both have fleets of over 20 year old frames and with the exception of the occasional prop falling off, they are both making better profits than VA
Alliance picked up their F70s and F100s for under $1 million each...or the 30 or so that they bought would still be less than 1 of VAs new 737s
Yes they drink more, but still....
The answer is because VA are not a 'real' airline, they have very little expertise with anything, constantly demonstrate through the actions of their management that they have no idea about the industry or any wider knowledge beyond recognizing that an aeroplane has wings and engines. For example, who but WHO buys 777s and opts out the large rear Cargo Door so that no pallets can be loaded in the rear... a long range aircraft that can only accommodate pallets in the forward compartment(s). This is stupidity on a gross scale and it was done to 'save money'. Well, good, because no one is going to want to 'waste' money buying those aircraft second hand. Ansett did the same thing by buying 767s (the initial batch) without the wide cargo door at the front - none was available for the rear - so those aircraft couldn't be used economically or easily turned around compared to QF because every damn freight shipment had to be broken up across DPEs instead of put on a pallet so took longer to load and unload. AN did the same thing by opting to pay to remove the in hold systems on their A320s to save money on GSE, but ended up paying out probably 10 x that in WorkCover costs due to injuries manually loading such a large aircraft compared to the 737s, etc. VA also has magic-carpet in some of its 737s but only at one end so when they took the Foxtel Antennas off, it affected the ability to trim (it had to) because of the weight imbalance. I mean, what's the point of doing it at just one end??? QF don't do these things. All their 737s have magic carpet, all their aircraft are configured the same in terms of equipment, etc. from the 767s when they were flying (except for the BA ones) through to the A330s, etc. QF don't do stupid things like buying an aeroplane and removing stuff that makes it less saleable and they also - as you suggest - keep their aircraft until optimum financial benefit can be had from them. When you have experienced people in an airline - even one that has been gutted somewhat - that have in built corporate knowledge of basics like this, these sort of stupid mistakes don't happen.

AerialPerspective
5th Apr 2017, 15:44
Question, how does virgin have enough 737s to release to tiger when the are taking over the flying from the 18 odd Ejets being retired and also delaying the Max until at least late 2019?
I think they had been progressively reducing flying and had several aircraft 'parked' which were positioned strategically in MEL and BNE I believe as operational 'spares' which were for some time on a 'for sale' list. I think this is where the 'slack' in terms of being able to lose some of them came from - that and the fact they would be replacing most of the fleet with 737-MAX-8 anyway.

AerialPerspective
5th Apr 2017, 15:46
250kg of paint on a 737
That can't be right... I thought there was only about 400-450kg on a 747.

VBA Engineer
6th Apr 2017, 10:33
That can't be right... I thought there was only about 400-450kg on a 747.

Not even that much, about 250Kg on a 747.

Roughly 85Kg and a 737.

Painting versus Polishing of Airplane Exterior Surfaces (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_05/textonly/fo01txt.html)

cavemanzk
8th Apr 2017, 06:16
What is the go with VH-VOR? looks like is has recently been based in AKL, and painted all white after its short stint with TT.

Has it had an VA cabin re-installed, or are the J passengers up for an nice surprise when they arrive at the Airport.

Assuming its being crewed by VA (AKL Crew) or is it operated by TT still.

skysook
8th Apr 2017, 06:21
It's been handed back to VAI(NZ) temporarily to cover another 73 in heavy maintenance. Cabin is VA fitted and crew is VAI(NZ). It will go back to TT within the next few months.

wheels_down
8th Apr 2017, 08:15
Why is Alliance operating F100 for Tiger?

SHVC
8th Apr 2017, 08:49
Out of curiosity what would the cost of the internal fit out cost? Externally I don't think would be all that much as tiger and VA only have tail and engine cowl differences. Just seems like more wasted money by our top managers.

Ollie Onion
8th Apr 2017, 10:03
This has got to be costing an absolute bomb to chop and change like this.

cavemanzk
9th Apr 2017, 01:08
Out of curiosity what would the cost of the internal fit out cost? Externally I don't think would be all that much as tiger and VA only have tail and engine cowl differences. Just seems like more wasted money by our top managers.

From this photo taken in March, looks like they have recovered the headrests out of TT Yellow.

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8541146

DutyofCare
12th Apr 2017, 05:40
Hey AerialPerspective (http://www.pprune.org/members/305778-aerialperspective) Guru / in the know & No Crap Master :ok:

Who is running under the Callsign TEGOS pls :confused:

Is it of any fact, AQZ are running TT flts ex MML :confused:

Berealgetreal
12th Apr 2017, 06:04
DutyofCare is right on the money. Actually, Alliance is on the money!

Mate of mine reckons Virgin is the best thing that ever happened to them. Going gang busters.

Basically Skywest, Tiger and Alliance are loving the "Game Change"...

AerialPerspective
12th Apr 2017, 22:34
Hey AerialPerspective (http://www.pprune.org/members/305778-aerialperspective) Guru / in the know & No Crap Master :ok:

Who is running under the Callsign TEGOS pls :confused:

Is it of any fact, AQZ are running TT flts ex MML :confused:
Sorry DoC, I'm not aware but assume it would be Alliance.

Established
12th Apr 2017, 23:25
TiggOz is Tigerair's new call sign since October last year. It has replaced GoCat.

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 03:52
TiggOz is Tigerair's new call sign since October last year. It has replaced GoCat.
Who cares about callsigns in that organisation anyway... VA's ICAO callsign is 'Velocity' which the aircraft use, yet the ground use 'Virgin' which is actually the Virgin Atlantic ICAO callsign yet they get away with it... even when VS was operating into Sydney. I just wonder why they don't get pulled up about it and forced to use Velocity for ground as well... what's the point of a callsign being registered if that's the case???

coaldemon
13th Apr 2017, 05:00
Are you talking about Ground SMC or the Ground Handler?

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 05:18
Are you talking about Ground SMC or the Ground Handler?
Airline operated equivalent in VA of QF Movement Control, whatever VA call it.

Snakecharma
13th Apr 2017, 05:37
Aerial perspective, the "virgin" callsign you refer to is a radio telephony callsign applicable to ATC comms.

The use of "Virgin" by Virgin AMCO on company frequency is not governed by the icao doc and they could call themselves "purple underpants with pink dots" if they wanted to.

Virgin Blue used "Virgin" as a radio telephony callsign for years - 2000 until about 2011 if I remember correctly under an agreement with Airservices. Even with Atlantic operating into Australia - the Atlantic Australian flight numbers were quarantined so there weren't any duplications.

It was only the push to get a common callsign across PB, the 777 operation and the Australian domestic operation that they switched to velocity

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 05:52
Aerial perspective, the "virgin" callsign you refer to is a radio telephony callsign applicable to ATC comms.

The use of "Virgin" by Virgin AMCO on company frequency is not governed by the icao doc and they could call themselves "purple underpants with pink dots" if they wanted to.

Virgin Blue used "Virgin" as a radio telephony callsign for years - 2000 until about 2011 if I remember correctly under an agreement with Airservices. Even with Atlantic operating into Australia - the Atlantic Australian flight numbers were quarantined so there weren't any duplications.

It was only the push to get a common callsign across PB, the 777 operation and the Australian domestic operation that they switched to velocity
Fair enough... be interesting to see if Part 64 mentions anything about it, I doubt it since it's a licensing reg basically. I just thought it was strange when I heard it... Qantas call themselves 'Qantas Melbourne', 'Qantas Sydney', 'Qantas Auckland', etc. they don't call themselves by any other call sign, same with BA, ground and air call themselves 'Speedbird'. Virgin has to be different. I just don't see what the big deal would be if they called themselves 'Velocity Sydney' for example.

Snakecharma
13th Apr 2017, 05:56
Have you considered that the ground station is identifying themselves?

They are Virgin Sydney not Velocity Sydney. Similarly contracted airlines call Qantas Sydney if they use Qantas for ground handling. If you are talking licensing regs I assume you mean Part 61?

As far as licensing is concerned I don't know if ground people require a flight radiotelephony licence - they used to if I remember correctly but not sure these days - but they could call themselves "Big Sky base" if they wanted

Buster Hyman
13th Apr 2017, 06:40
Have you considered that the ground station is identifying themselves?


That's how I read it. Back in the day, AN DOM & AN INTL ops both used Ansett Melbourne on different frequencies. (AN INTL was the GHA branch of AN)

morno
13th Apr 2017, 07:52
These are the issues currently in Australia, what a ground handler is called on the company frequency 😐

Seriously, who cares.

Icarus2001
13th Apr 2017, 08:07
and they could call themselves "purple underpants with pink dots" if they wanted to. Really? On a designated and licenced company aviation band frequency. That is a bold statement.

rockarpee
13th Apr 2017, 08:42
What an amazing thread this is

Buster Hyman
13th Apr 2017, 09:11
These are the issues currently in Australia, what a ground handler is called on the company frequency 😐

Seriously, who cares.

Wow. Just wow. :D:D:D

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 09:31
Have you considered that the ground station is identifying themselves?

They are Virgin Sydney not Velocity Sydney. Similarly contracted airlines call Qantas Sydney if they use Qantas for ground handling. If you are talking licensing regs I assume you mean Part 61?

As far as licensing is concerned I don't know if ground people require a flight radiotelephony licence - they used to if I remember correctly but not sure these days - but they could call themselves "Big Sky base" if they wanted
Yes... Qantas say "QANTAS TWO-NINER this is QANTAS SYDNEY". They do that because Qantas' ICAO callsign is Qantas. British Airways' is Speedbird and they don't say in London "BA London this is Speedbird Eleven" they say "Speedbird London". Carriers who are handled by Qantas call Qantas Sydney because that's what their route manual tells them to do because the handling is by Qantas and no one is going to answer if they use their own company callsign because there's no one there to answer. Every airline I'm aware of that calls it's own company groundstations uses it's ICAO call sign except VA. If there's a process to obtain callsigns and VS has "Virgin" but VA is allowed to use it, what is the point of getting callsigns and registering them in the first place, why not just use whatever they want???
And no, Part 64 CASR covers licensing for Radio Operators but I don't think it covers callsigns.

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 09:33
These are the issues currently in Australia, what a ground handler is called on the company frequency 😐

Seriously, who cares.
No, no one is saying it's an issue, just a comment that's all. It's supposed to be a discussion forum. No need to make a sarcastic comment just because you disagree. There is plenty of absolute CRAP on pprune such as 57 pages on a coloured logo on an aicraft which has nothing to do with day to day airline ops.

BPA
13th Apr 2017, 10:13
Yes... Qantas say "QANTAS TWO-NINER this is QANTAS SYDNEY". They do that because Qantas' ICAO callsign is Qantas. British Airways' is Speedbird and they don't say in London "BA London this is Speedbird Eleven" they say "Speedbird London". Carriers who are handled by Qantas call Qantas Sydney because that's what their route manual tells them to do because the handling is by Qantas and no one is going to answer if they use their own company callsign because there's no one there to answer. Every airline I'm aware of that calls it's own company groundstations uses it's ICAO call sign except VA. If there's a process to obtain callsigns and VS has "Virgin" but VA is allowed to use it, what is the point of getting callsigns and registering them in the first place, why not just use whatever they want???
And no, Part 64 CASR covers licensing for Radio Operators but I don't think it covers callsigns.

You need to go to the USA, as the majority of the operators have there have call signs that have nothing to do with the name of the Airline. You will hear call signs such as Redwood, cedarwood etc. Even Virgin America doesn't use Virgin as their call sign, yet when they call their company they address them by company name.

The issue with VA started when they expanded into international ops. If they stayed a domestic carry then the use of Virgin wold not have been a problem.

Break Right
13th Apr 2017, 10:52
FFS is this really what people have time to spend on.

billykid
13th Apr 2017, 10:57
Some TT passengers might get a nice ride soon.... Alliance just bought another F70 from the Dutch royal family.....


Dutch government plane sold to Australian airline for ?3,7 million | NL Times (http://nltimes.nl/2017/04/11/dutch-government-plane-sold-australian-airline-eu37-million)

PoppaJo
13th Apr 2017, 12:23
'China Southern 343 Hold short of alpha and Give way to the Velocity 737'

'Where is the Velocity, I see no Velocity'

'Give way to the 737 on your right'

'Ahh yes I see 737 give way, and where is the velocity coming'

:ugh:

AerialPerspective
13th Apr 2017, 15:27
FFS is this really what people have time to spend on.
I'm sorry I made the original (partly tongue in cheek) comment. Unfortunately pprune is getting like this, an innocent comment sometimes elicits pages and pages of argumentative back and forth. I'm done, I DO have better things to do than carry this on any further. This is almost as bad as the Gay Colors thread that went on for 57 pages and had ZERO do to with aviation... actually, no, it's not as bad as that.
I already acknowledged about 5 posts back other's viewpoints by saying "Fair enough..." FFS.

And someone mentioned above that I should go to the United States... no, I shouldn't and I hope we never base our standards in this country on that environment.

The Baron
19th Apr 2017, 21:13
Anyone know why Alliance F100s are doing around 7 flights a day out of Melbourne for Tiger?

porch monkey
19th Apr 2017, 23:12
Because now that they have some of the crew trained on the 737, they don't have enough crew to man the A320. Who would have thought........

AerialPerspective
19th Apr 2017, 23:41
Because now that they have some of the crew trained on the 737, they don't have enough crew to man the A320. Who would have thought........
That sounds like a more accurate summation... in the old days we used to talk about the 6 P's... Proper Planning Prevents P--- Poor Performance... that simple axiom seems to have been lost... (of course in order to properly plan one must know what they are doing first).

bobsyauncle
5th May 2017, 13:23
Any news on a return of revenue 737 flying?

Icarus2001
19th May 2017, 10:40
So any progress on getting the B737 on to the Tiger AOC? Any sign of a proving flight?

Goat Whisperer
20th May 2017, 01:47
Icarus...

any sign??? there have been about 100. Put VH-VUD into flightradar24 and see

4th knockback on 737 AOC I hear. That's... not good.

737pnf
22nd May 2017, 12:35
Goat Whisperer
Did you hear anything further than simply they were knocked back again?

Goat Whisperer
23rd May 2017, 01:45
Yes, 737pnf (shouldn't that be 737pm now?)

I heard a lot, but it's so unsubstantiated I can only boil it down to: not even close to being allowed to operate the 737 as they've applied for.

ebt
23rd May 2017, 02:12
I guess there is a silver lining to all this, and that is delaying the penalties that they will have to pay to remove the leased A320s from the fleet. Most leases still have a few years to run.

Goat Whisperer
23rd May 2017, 02:45
Offsetting the 737 pilots paid not to fly and the cost of chartering Alliance F100s?

wheels_down
23rd May 2017, 03:01
I guess there is a silver lining to all this, and that is delaying the penalties that they will have to pay to remove the leased A320s from the fleet. Most leases still have a few years to run.
Other option is to bin the 737 fiasco and keep the Airbus. I really fail to see the point in all this mess for a token fleet of A320s, even more so that they are no longer going to Bali.

With rumoured potential new leadership changes at Virgin upcoming don't think it can be ruled out.

bus 1975
23rd May 2017, 06:16
okay new to this so bear with me

Thought they had transferred over one 737 and were using this for training so 3 being used and the extra for training
and they are still recruiting for 737 or are they just going through process of converting contractors to F/os through the recruitment process

Who was it from Casa that came over ?

Falling Leaf
23rd May 2017, 08:00
Other option is to bin the 737 fiasco and keep the Airbus. I really fail to see the point in all this mess for a token fleet of A320s, even more so that they are no longer going to Bali.

That would be the best and most common sense option, and therefore won't happen....

However, with a change of leadership.....

Berealgetreal
23rd May 2017, 09:43
How hard can it be really..?

737pnf
23rd May 2017, 23:08
Goat Whisperer - I think 737pnf is appropriate

This all doesn't make sense. 60 odd FOs and Capts being paid to do nothing; x number of FAs being paid to do nothing; 2x QQ F100s being wet leased daily; and the CEO is still sprouting positivity and massive growth ahead. TT grew 4.5% on the quarter compared to last year was the latest figure I saw.

The VA group has lost my confidence

AerialPerspective
24th May 2017, 07:27
Goat Whisperer - I think 737pnf is appropriate

This all doesn't make sense. 60 odd FOs and Capts being paid to do nothing; x number of FAs being paid to do nothing; 2x QQ F100s being wet leased daily; and the CEO is still sprouting positivity and massive growth ahead. TT grew 4.5% on the quarter compared to last year was the latest figure I saw.

The VA group has lost my confidence
Pretty good summary.

TBM-Legend
24th May 2017, 09:35
VA system meltdown earlier today...daughter delayed a couple of hours ex-MEL

BPA
24th May 2017, 10:14
VA system meltdown earlier today...daughter delayed a couple of hours ex-MEL

VA wasn't the only airline affected, it was a worldwide issue.

dodgybrothers
24th May 2017, 14:23
Surely that has to be it for CEOs of both outfits?

413X3
24th May 2017, 19:05
'China Southern 343 Hold short of alpha and Give way to the Velocity 737'

'Where is the Velocity, I see no Velocity'

'Give way to the 737 on your right'

'Ahh yes I see 737 give way, and where is the velocity coming'

:ugh:

If that confuses them they might have a mental panic after hearing a Qantas callsign on a big white and blue 747.

AerialPerspective
25th May 2017, 08:22
VA wasn't the only airline affected, it was a worldwide issue.
Would have been SABRE then.

Buster Hyman
31st May 2017, 14:25
So any progress on getting the B737 on to the Tiger AOC? Any sign of a proving flight?
I'm hearing it's done. Possibly last week.:confused:

Goat Whisperer
1st Jun 2017, 00:50
follow VH-VUD on fr24, still doing training flights after months and months.

Virgin Blue didn't need one tenth of the flights to get up and running from scratch!

colebertos
1st Jun 2017, 06:02
The official CASA proving flight was conducted on the 30th of May, it consisted of TT 9122 MEL-SYD, TT 9123 SYD-ADL and TT 9124 ADL-MEL. Mock flights were flown on the 26th with the same flight numbers to prepare the crew which included a diversion to Canberra. It was all flown with VH-VUD.

I have a copy of the passenger briefing if anyone is interested.

PoppaJo
1st Jun 2017, 09:36
So did they pass it?

Berealgetreal
1st Jun 2017, 10:41
Wonder in which balance sheet the costs of the whole excercise will be reflected. Wouldn't be cheap!

skiinoz
2nd Jun 2017, 03:38
Virgin will be doing the maintenance for tiger after October, double the cost of the previous provider, VT engineers are on A320 courses now. Who makes this stuff up! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Does no one in that organisation look back at what they did with the ATR's. Multiple AOG's because the engineers (all on 170k+) were, to busy, couldn't be arsed or didn't have a clue what they were doing. Watch Tigers maint costs and delays skyrocket after October.

Watchdog
3rd Jun 2017, 21:48
TT's first 737 inaugural domestic RPT is Tuesday 6 Jun MEL-SYD.

Lookleft
3rd Jun 2017, 23:08
Tuesday 6 Jun

Hopefully more like Utah than Omaha!:ok:

SRM
3rd Jun 2017, 23:26
Virgin will be doing the maintenance for tiger after October, double the cost of the previous provider, VT engineers are on A320 courses now. Who makes this stuff up! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Does no one in that organisation look back at what they did with the ATR's. Multiple AOG's because the engineers (all on 170k+) were, to busy, couldn't be arsed or didn't have a clue what they were doing. Watch Tigers maint costs and delays skyrocket after October.

Hey mate don't work for BAE by any chance.

Berealgetreal
3rd Jun 2017, 23:32
TT's first 737 inaugural domestic RPT is Tuesday 6 Jun MEL-SYD.

"....they'll never compete on the same routes, they will focus on leisure markets"

bus 1975
3rd Jun 2017, 23:48
So to bee clear as reading this thread it's as clear as mud

The three year date is pretty much out the window ?
And what's expected to happen with the a320s . And the staff associated with them .
Are. The a320 people expected to transfer across on a new type rating or redundant . Also what about the contractors ?

wondrousbitofrough
3rd Jun 2017, 23:58
Virgin will be doing the maintenance for tiger after October, double the cost of the previous provider, VT engineers are on A320 courses now. Who makes this stuff up! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Does no one in that organisation look back at what they did with the ATR's. Multiple AOG's because the engineers (all on 170k+) were, to busy, couldn't be arsed or didn't have a clue what they were doing. Watch Tigers maint costs and delays skyrocket after October.

Thanks for that glowing endorsement:ok:

AerialPerspective
4th Jun 2017, 13:37
Virgin will be doing the maintenance for tiger after October, double the cost of the previous provider, VT engineers are on A320 courses now. Who makes this stuff up! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Does no one in that organisation look back at what they did with the ATR's. Multiple AOG's because the engineers (all on 170k+) were, to busy, couldn't be arsed or didn't have a clue what they were doing. Watch Tigers maint costs and delays skyrocket after October.
That'll be interesting... I've heard of delays at VA in the past because VT walk past, see a panel open (like the toilet or water) and just leave it... 'not my job'... block headed attitude (allegedly) of 'it's not my job so I'll just let the aircraft be delayed'... yet people still reckon VA is the better of the two airlines when it comes to attitude of personnel... I wonder, if the above is true.

porch monkey
5th Jun 2017, 07:37
So by your metric, the honey cart driver should close the odd baggage door or cowl if he sees it left open?

skiinoz
5th Jun 2017, 08:18
So by your metric, the honey cart driver should close the odd baggage door or cowl if he sees it left open?
Reply

WTF????

SRM
7th Jun 2017, 01:50
So by your metric, the honey cart driver should close the odd baggage door or cowl if he sees it left open?
Reply

WTF????

I think you need help mate. No point going off half cocked about things,firstly you really no nothing about and secondly WTF has it got to do with you anyway.

Goat Whisperer
7th Jun 2017, 05:00
back to topic...

it seems Tigerair have flown one 737 (VH-VUD) on a couple of days worth of domestic flights.

The two other airframes haven't flown since Feb.

AerialPerspective
7th Jun 2017, 06:23
So by your metric, the honey cart driver should close the odd baggage door or cowl if he sees it left open?
No, obviously I wouldn't advocate a person not trained to do something but an engineer seeing a panel open (for which he/she is capable and trained to operate) and calling someone to close it rather than doing it him/herself and letting the flight be delayed and pax inconvenienced as a result is just being a turd, when all other functions are finished and the aircraft is ready to go.

The more appropriate action since the Engineer would be entirely capable of closing the panel would be to do it, then go and tell the driver or his supervisor that he'd left the panel open and it 'could' have caused a delay.

It would be no different to a box of amenities sitting on an aerobridge and a ground/pax handling person refusing to hand them to the cabin crew but instead calling a caterer back to the aircraft to do it. Even more ridiculous when it comes from a company that's always going on about 'teamwork' and being a 'team'.

skiinoz
7th Jun 2017, 07:42
I think you need help mate. No point going off half cocked about things,firstly you really no nothing about and secondly WTF has it got to do with you anyway.

Just commenting on a forum SRM, and I would say I am eminently qualified to do so. Why don't you wind your neck in, and as I said wait for October. 😜

porch monkey
10th Jun 2017, 08:11
A.P. Firstly, I have NEVER heard of an engineer doing that. You admit yourself it was heresay anyway. Ultimately, the dispatcher's final task before push is to ensure all external doors, hatches etc are closed. He has the wherewithal to do so. So how that is going to delay a flight is a bit hard to figure. I know you hate VA, and I agree with some of what you have to say, but sometimes dude, have a think before you post utter crap.

SRM
12th Jun 2017, 02:34
Just commenting on a forum SRM, and I would say I am eminently qualified to do so. Why don't you wind your neck in, and as I said wait for October. 😜

That comment sounds very British, Immmmmmmm.

Bellcrank 74
12th Jun 2017, 05:36
Virgin will be doing the maintenance for tiger after October, double the cost of the previous provider, VT engineers are on A320 courses now. Who makes this stuff up! "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Does no one in that organisation look back at what they did with the ATR's. Multiple AOG's because the engineers (all on 170k+) were, to busy, couldn't be arsed or didn't have a clue what they were doing. Watch Tigers maint costs and delays skyrocket after October.



Stick with your A350's :ok:

AerialPerspective
12th Jun 2017, 15:51
A.P. Firstly, I have NEVER heard of an engineer doing that. You admit yourself it was heresay anyway. Ultimately, the dispatcher's final task before push is to ensure all external doors, hatches etc are closed. He has the wherewithal to do so. So how that is going to delay a flight is a bit hard to figure. I know you hate VA, and I agree with some of what you have to say, but sometimes dude, have a think before you post utter crap.
It was not hearsay, it was an actual incident and not the only one that I could list. I however painted it as 'vague' because I do not wish to go into chapter and verse, just offering an item that comes from personal experience that was not the only example - the reason I posted it is because I never heard of it happening before either (in any other airline I have personal experience of). There are idiots in every airline I am sure, nay, in every workplace but some of the things I've seen are nothing more than people being obtuse and arrogant which is why I posted it as the experience and others was one particular group (not all obviously) that just defied belief in terms of arrogance and obscure excuse-generating apparatus along with certain management who would do nothing about it.

737pnf
25th Jun 2017, 10:31
I wondered if any of you can confirm my latest whisperings?

TT have so heavily (internally) recruited pilots for their 737 fleet, that they've had to recruit 320 pilots, while the 7'3 cohort (most of them who hold a 320 TR) earn a full wage for doing nothing...

TT sent a handful of new recruits to the sims in akl for their 320 TR

The NZ 320 sims aren't on the CASA register as an approved training provider, so the TT 320 recruits also join the enviable position of earning a full wage and...doing nothing

Do any of you have your ears so accurately tuned to respond to this?

morno
25th Jun 2017, 11:08
I highly doubt CASA would not recognise a type rating conducted by a NZ company.

The sim doesn't have to be approved by CASA (unless things have changed with Part 61, I don't know. I did my TR pre-part 61), it only has to be approved by an authority that CASA recognises or some words to that affect. In this case, the NZ CAA.

So I don't know if your rumour is very accurate.

From the guys I speak to in Tiger, they're flat out on the 320's.

morno

Pastor of Muppets
27th Jun 2017, 21:12
Shouldn't this be in the GA forum?

Water Wings
27th Jun 2017, 22:11
I wondered if any of you can confirm my latest whisperings?

TT have so heavily (internally) recruited pilots for their 737 fleet, that they've had to recruit 320 pilots, while the 7'3 cohort (most of them who hold a 320 TR) earn a full wage for doing nothing...

TT sent a handful of new recruits to the sims in akl for their 320 TR

The NZ 320 sims aren't on the CASA register as an approved training provider, so the TT 320 recruits also join the enviable position of earning a full wage and...doing nothing

Do any of you have your ears so accurately tuned to respond to this?
Considering JQ sometimes use the Air New Zealand A320 sims in Auckland, that element of any rumour would not stack up.

Chocks Away
29th Jun 2017, 10:14
737pnf - Air EnZed is a "recognised Training Organisation" which meets/exceeds CASA requirements. I utilised them many years ago with a 777 Sim Recurrent check.

737pnf
29th Jun 2017, 11:06
I THINK is was a Part 61 thing, but I didn't get all the info

Thanks for clearing that up

Chocks Away
29th Jun 2017, 13:20
Bro'town has been Part 61 compliant for a long time and now Australia is... in it's own peculiar way :} so it's one in the same now but wasn't an issue previously either.

Jump on the CASA website to search for "Recognised Training Organisations" or search the Air'Bro Academy website for it's Foreign approvals. Simples :p

Aloha_KSA
3rd Jul 2017, 09:52
... Thread going askew... IMHO the 737s going to Tigerair, the contract-only hiring of new pilots at Tigerair... the "fleet consolidation" at Virgin. Big picture: Downsize Virgin domestic and shift to Tigerair to be staffed with pilots from Virgin group seniority list. Lay off the contractors. "Thank you for coming. Best of luck." Any thoughts?

coaldemon
4th Jul 2017, 04:29
Probably not far from the actual outcome whether intended or not by TT and VA Management

Falling Leaf
4th Jul 2017, 04:55
Freeze on any VA pilots going to TT until Jul 18 as VA are already 250 odd pilots short.

porch monkey
4th Jul 2017, 06:05
May or may not be true Aloha. But when you sign a contract that says 12 or 18 months do you expect lifetime employment?

Icarus2001
4th Jul 2017, 08:24
as VA are already 250 odd pilots short.

There are plenty of ODD pilots around.

It would appear VA are now recruiting externally on to the B737 again.

Aloha_KSA
12th Jul 2017, 04:42
May or may not be true Aloha. But when you sign a contract that says 12 or 18 months do you expect lifetime employment?

Begs a question, though: if VA is so short, why the contract pilot hiring at Tiger?

porch monkey
12th Jul 2017, 11:18
Originally to get the 737 operation up and running, hence the time limited contracts. Given the complete cluster**** it has become, now your guess is as good as mine.......:sad:

morno
12th Jul 2017, 17:26
The agreement signed earlier this year or late last year (can't remember when it was already), enables TT and VA crew to go between either from July next year, but protects command upgrades for existing TT crew (those on the seniority list as at April last year).

This was all covered some time ago. Appears some people have short memories.

morno

WillieTheWimp
12th Jul 2017, 21:21
From what I have heard has nothing to do with the 737. It was all to keep certain unions happy.

porch monkey
13th Jul 2017, 00:14
Given the information you've been given from various sources above, I guess you'd be wrong.

davidclarke
13th Jul 2017, 01:37
From what I have heard has nothing to do with the 737. It was all to keep certain unions happy.

Certainly doesn't have any advantages for the TT crew.

WillieTheWimp
13th Jul 2017, 03:05
Given the information you've been given from various sources above, I guess you'd be wrong.

The contracts are solely a requirement of the deed. There are 80+ contractors and how many 737's. Not sure how you see it or what info you have, but from the outside it doesn't look like it is just to get the 737 up and running.

morno
13th Jul 2017, 03:56
Even if it's for more than just getting the 737 up and running Willie, the deed that was signed prevents them from hiring permanent employees until such time as the deed is active and everyone in the Virgin group has had their opportunity to shuffle their chairs if they so choose. THEN, and only then, can a contractor be offered a permanent position, with a DOJ effective from the day they stopped being a contractor. And for any contract Captains, they can't retain their position as Captains beyond their contract.

Keep in mind that 80 may seem like a high number, but they still haven't gotten rid of any A320's, so they still need crew to fly the A320's while the existing crews are trained on the 737. There will be an excess of crew at some point (without taking into account any attrition), but the whole point of the contracts is so that once it's all done, then they can get rid of this excess when it's no longer needed.

So it sounds like any info you have is just to stir the pot.

morno

WillieTheWimp
13th Jul 2017, 20:53
You can spin the numbers however you want. Fact is no company would willingly employ this amount of contractors, purely for a fleet change. No one was type rated, the cost so far is close to $10m. On top of that they're a lot of newly typed contractors taking it straight to Jetstar. They must be laughing now they have TT to provide ratings and line training packages. In order for them to keep 80 they will need to employ 160 so now it does seem a lot. My source are rock solid so it has nothing to do with stirring any pots. Just telling it how it is. Even if some don't like it.

SHVC
13th Jul 2017, 23:01
Nah Willie, I don't think they really are laughing, not even sure if its a factor if they have it or not. JQ may be taking guys from TT with 320 type rating, they still make them do the type rating again regardless. I have had mates start with couple thousand hrs on the 320 at JQ and they were still made to do it all again in the U.K.

davidclarke
14th Jul 2017, 03:19
Nah Willie, I don't think they really are laughing, not even sure if its a factor if they have it or not. JQ may be taking guys from TT with 320 type rating, they still make them do the type rating again regardless. I have had mates start with couple thousand hrs on the 320 at JQ and they were still made to do it all again in the U.K.


SHVC
I have a colleague that went over to JQ from TT and the type rating was fully recognised. They only had to do 4-6 sims from memory then a small amount of line training.

From my understating the deed was put in place to allow VA pilots to come across when there were talks of redundancies. This obviously never eventuated and now VA are 150ish pilots short therefore making the deed null and void. The big kick in the teeth for the contractors is that virgin are currently hiring pilots and that means that the pilots they hire or soon will hire will have seniority in the group over the contractors. This is particularly frustrating for them considering many contract pilots wish to stay on.

Icarus2001
14th Jul 2017, 03:52
they still make them do the type rating again regardless. Unlikely. More likely is that they undertook sim training to learn the Jetstar procedures.

PoppaJo
14th Jul 2017, 04:45
What utter rubbish. I went across with many thousands of hours on the bus but was never asked to do a new type rating. 4 sim sessions.

Had they requested such I would have told them where to stick it and not leave my previous job!

porch monkey
14th Jul 2017, 07:55
I guess I just don't get it. What part of "contract" implies anything other than "contract"? Things in the greater wide world can change overnight. Companies change their mind overnight. Jesus, had you been keeping track of the mismanagement goings on at Virgin over the last 2 years, why on earth would you take anything at face value?
You sign the contract, if you agree to what is in it, you work it, and you move on. Or stay if the opportunity presents. The terms are in the contract. As for VA employing on the 737 now, if you like the look of that, you can always apply. The grass isn't always greener.

737pnf
14th Jul 2017, 08:09
Titan Slave - ROFL!

What's going on defies belief both within, and from outside of the aviation community. And it's not just pilots. There's countless FAs doing SFA as well.

No sims carried out in June, none rostered in July - because they "need THE GUYS to fly" - "the guys" being the Training Captains?? Who knows. But if that's the case, wouldn't you hold off for another month or two, train up normal Captains and FO's, allowing normal crew to fly the planes while the training crew continued to train??

As for the contractors taking their type rating to VA, I'd have to agree with porch monkey about the colour of the grass...JT leaving unplanned with Blunty taking the slack temporarily, JB's "Better Business Plan" - the VA GROUP (not just the airline) seem like they're sailing without a Captain at the moment

737pnf
3rd Aug 2017, 04:49
Hello viewers
Can anyone provide insight as to why so many pilots are on the ground yet still being paid a full wage?
Why didn't TT establish a hold pool of pilots?
Is the reason TT pilots are being paid to do nothing, because there is a WORLDwide shortage of 737 sim time?
Why are TT still hiring, despite this worldwide shortage of sim time?
Is it ALSO a case of TT trying to uptake pilots now, and thus drying out the amount of pilots available to other airlines, ensuring the businesses viability in time to come?

Something just doesn't add up. The VA group are bleeding money unnecessarily. It's like big change is coming and TT, VA, and the VA group are trying to keep a lid on it for as long as possible. Oh to be a fly on the wall in JB/Blunty's office...

Icarus2001
3rd Aug 2017, 07:08
because there is a WORLDwide shortage of 737 sim time? Have you got any evidence of this?

Boeing in Brisbane are definitely not running their sims 24 hours a day. Whether this is due to a lack of instructors is possible but since I am not seeing adverts for sim instructors then I doubt it.

Is the reason TT pilots are being paid to do nothing, because there is a WORLDwide shortage of 737 sim time?

Wasn't it because it took TT a great deal longer than expected to get the B737 on to their AOC to allow training?

morno
3rd Aug 2017, 07:58
You're very interested in the whole Tigerair 737 thing aren't you PNF.

Buster Hyman
3rd Aug 2017, 08:10
Can anyone provide insight as to why so many pilots are on the ground yet still being paid a full wage?
You'll get a career in Management if you can figure out a fair way not to pay them!
Why are TT still hiring, despite this worldwide shortage of sim time?
Fleet transistion. Onwards & upwards.
Is it ALSO a case of TT trying to uptake pilots now, and thus drying out the amount of pilots available to other airlines, ensuring the businesses viability in time to come?
I don't think there's a Pilot Production line but I do think their Fleet transition answers most, if not all, of your questions.

737pnf
3rd Aug 2017, 08:18
morno - I try to keep my ear to the ground. Am interested to see what others can add to the topic.

Icarus - that's the reason I've heard. I saw the VA sim roster about a month ago which showed buggerall excess availability - something like 2 hours excess per week or per month, I can't remember. Apart from that it was flat out. I know TT sent a lot of pilots to Miami for their initial type rating.

Have either of you, or any others, got any other reason why an airline would give away in excess of $6m per annum, when the groups books heavily feature red already, for employees to sit at home doing nothing?

Or any of my other questions?

No Idea Either
3rd Aug 2017, 14:27
There's no conspiracy PNF. Management just completely mismanaged the whole thing. Yes, they're being paid for doing nothing but that's not their fault. Some management turkey should take a fall for it but in the usual fashion they got promoted! Go figure...........

737pnf
11th Aug 2017, 11:42
You have to be kidding, re -
Administrative flexibility behind Tigerair USA traffic rights | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/08/administrative-flexibility-behind-tigerair-usa-traffic-rights/)

coaldemon
11th Aug 2017, 18:55
How do they get around the Air Navigation Act? Being owned by VAA means that TT is more than 50% foreign owned I would have thought. Same issue that brought them a cropper in Indonesia

wheels_down
11th Aug 2017, 22:50
Tiger is 100% owned by an Australian listed company that's why, forget Virgin's shareholding for a minute it's not Tiger. The Etihad/Singapore etc relationship is irrelevant.

From what I gather Tiger is controlled by Virgin. Etihad et al have no say. In saying this who profits in Tiger's earnings?

morno
12th Aug 2017, 02:46
What's the problem 737pnf?

It's only an administrative thing. Quite smart if you ask me. Why restrict yourself for future possibilities?

morno

SHVC
12th Aug 2017, 07:48
Well, no one does wheels.. like VA, Tigerair also ran at a loss about 28 or so million this FY.

737pnf
12th Aug 2017, 12:03
Why?
Because the application probably cost them money. Money that they don't have.
At the very least, it cost resources within HQ time. Time (and money?) that JB/Blunty/PW should be investing in resources to perfect the 737 operation, instead of getting ready for what would require an additional type on the AOC

davidclarke
12th Aug 2017, 12:58
Why?
Because the application probably cost them money. Money that they don't have.
At the very least, it cost resources within HQ time. Time (and money?) that JB/Blunty/PW should be investing in resources to perfect the 737 operation, instead of getting ready for what would require an additional type on the AOC
What they should have done is leave TT alone and let them make money which is what they were on the cusp of doing, instead of getting involved and changing fleets which has cost $$$. I agree with fleet simplification but the 320 was perfect for the operation they were doing and doing well.

morno
12th Aug 2017, 14:27
A321NEO would have been a much better aeroplane to do it than Old 737's.

No Idea Either
12th Aug 2017, 19:09
But then leasing costs would have blown everything out even further Morno

AerialPerspective
12th Aug 2017, 20:49
What they should have done is leave TT alone and let them make money which is what they were on the cusp of doing, instead of getting involved and changing fleets which has cost $$$. I agree with fleet simplification but the 320 was perfect for the operation they were doing and doing well.
Every sentence about VA starts with "What they should have done" - either because the management are stultifying in their stupidity or they actually sit around and ask "What's the worst approach to this or that..." and then do the worst.

It is unbelievable that a company that has now lost billions would stuff around with the only part of that business that is making or about to make a profit... but... then again, this is VA.

Berealgetreal
13th Aug 2017, 10:33
The domestic Virgin B737 I'm told has only lost money for a brief period in the capacity war with QF.

Then again every pilot thinks it's their fleet that's saving the company from financial oblivion.

wheels_down
13th Aug 2017, 10:38
So back to the original question...

Why has the 737 operation stalled? The Airbus fleet isn't even up for lease yet. Half the fleet was meant to be gone by now (original plan).

The Bullwinkle
14th Aug 2017, 06:17
Half the fleet was meant to be gone by now (original plan).
There was a plan???.....

wheels_down
14th Aug 2017, 06:56
Well they didn't have a Plan B, that's where they got caught. They were pretty cocky on getting that 737 AOC last November they spent millions on crewing, scheduling and even loaded all the flights for booking like it was a done deal. Then came the bad news.

porch monkey
14th Aug 2017, 08:32
Add to that the Bali debacle and various other F#ckups large and small, and what happens to the person presiding over it? He's now what?:eek: You couldn't make this shit up.

737pnf
20th Sep 2017, 12:12
wheels_down - there's some hefty losses being charted up on the VA Group Annual Report.
Released today, page 17 of the AR (#19 of the pdf document) shows, despite revenue and income of 543m (an increase of 14% from last year), that tiger made a loss of 24m for FY17.
Head-shaking results really...
Maybe the Bali debacle; the "lack of available simulator time" to train 737 pilots; and the struggles to get the 737 suite of manuals accepted by CASA may've been unforseeable (arguably, terribly mismanaged), but surely they would've been better pumping that spent money into developing tiger based on an A320 fleet? Other LCC seem to successfully use them - AirAsia, Jetstar, easyjet, jetblue...

AerialPerspective
21st Sep 2017, 00:42
Add to that the Bali debacle and various other F#ckups large and small, and what happens to the person presiding over it? He's now what?:eek: You couldn't make this shit up.
He get's a massive bonus again this year... that's what happens... along with the rest of the loss-inducing management team because they've made up some new buzz word 'positive cash flow' and it improved so they get big bonuses.

porch monkey
22nd Sep 2017, 08:20
And on it goes, AP, and on it goes........

AerialPerspective
23rd Sep 2017, 04:21
And on it goes, AP, and on it goes........
Ad infinitum, Ad Nauseam PM with no end in sight... wish I could earn that sort of money without any need to be diligent or achieve goals.

wheels_down
23rd Sep 2017, 05:24
Is the whole Boeing thing officially dead?

Are they attempting to quietly exit the 737 hoping nobody will notice? Failure on so many levels.

737pnf
23rd Sep 2017, 06:03
Hard to say...flightaware shows each of the three registrations are operating return from one destination per day (two flights - there and back. PER, BNE, and CNS all feature).
There's meant to be a fourth being added to the fleet...not too sure what timing or tail number that'll be. Possibly VOM
The 737 HOTC has given notice that he is stepping down and leaving the company; whilst the HOTC for the company is stepping down to become a line captain. Hardly stuff that gives you confidence for what's going on inside HQ

Oakape
23rd Sep 2017, 07:19
VH-VOR was taken from TT & moved to VAINZ to cover some maintenance at the beginning of this year. It is operating as a 'white tail'. Was supposed to be going back to Oz mid May, but is still in NZ.

chickoroll
17th Mar 2018, 01:54
Guessing the FOs realised what a cluster TT is and have sought other employment, now TT are short.

wishiwasupthere
17th Mar 2018, 02:30
Still waiting for them to drop their ATPL requirement 🤞

They're the only airline still holding out now. Cobham no longer require an ATPL.

chickoroll
17th Mar 2018, 02:33
Not even sure why any airline or low cost operator operating Jet aircraft would have the requirement to have an ATPL for new FO in Australia anyway, it is pointless. Any new hire would be waiting 15+ at QF, VA even longer at JQ now from what I hear.

pilotchute
17th Mar 2018, 06:03
Rumour is none of the Tiger checkers can do ATPL check rides. Not that it really matters as I don't think they will be upgrading anyone soon.

737pnf
17th Mar 2018, 08:00
Bugger those who are applying now didn't get in a few months ago. Last time I checked, they were after A320 contractors, bonded for a mere 10 months! Now it's back up to 36.
Wonder who's taking over the HR dept? TS (head of HR) along with several other key, long standing employees within HQ, has resigned recently.
Should I mention both unions have moved for rights to pursue PIA (protected industrial action)?

TULSAMI - do yourself a favour - go and get those exams completed ;)

galdian
18th Mar 2018, 02:40
Management would be fine - take the extra $$, have weekends off and just hope it all holds together until retirement.

Leadership - be nice to throw a bit of that into the company.

As always how many of their problems are solely internal Vs problems as bequeathed from the mothership debatable, based on the 737 debacle the "pissup in a brewery" pretty much describes the corperate capabilities on display.

Outside appearances are from Borghetti down nobody gives a sh*t anymore.

WillieTheWimp
18th Mar 2018, 10:39
With regards to the ATPL, its just a HR thing. I am sure they can hire pilots with a CPL and subjects completed (Frozen ATPL). If you have the total time and all the hour requirements +1500. Why not.

You will find it’s a Part A “thing”... FO requirements will be right at the bottom of the ‘to amend list’ at a place like TT.

framer
19th Mar 2018, 00:49
I’ve seen that requirement disappear at another Airline with one sentence from the CP.
HR: “ we have nobody left in the hold pool and very few new applicants”
CP: “ ok, drop the hours by 500 and get rid of the ATPL”.

Ozgrade3
19th Mar 2018, 10:11
I wonder how the Corporate operators are faring in the US, are they bleeding to the majors or is it the other way round.

wheels_down
19th Mar 2018, 11:35
Whats the holdup? Original plan years back had the Tiger fleet all 737 as of mid this year.

The Virgin group have the 737s, its not a fleet shortage here. I assume they are having problems getting out of the Airbus Leases?

Whats the holdup folks? This is the worlds slowest fleet conversion I have ever seen.

morno
19th Mar 2018, 13:15
It all started going wrong when someone said “what if we.....” and that was the end.

Shame, because Tiger was really going great until Virgin took over the entire thing and started to Virginise it.

Chadzat
20th Mar 2018, 01:00
Bit like Skywest really....

grrowler
20th Mar 2018, 20:12
When was Tiger doing well?? I can remember the time they got shut down by CASA, and the other time they kept losing money and were given away by Singapore rather than close the doors.

morno
21st Mar 2018, 02:39
When was Tiger doing well?? I can remember the time they got shut down by CASA, and the other time they kept losing money and were given away by Singapore rather than close the doors.

How about the time when they were making money, had good morale, were kicking Jetstar’s ass in OTP and Cancellation rates.

grrowler
21st Mar 2018, 04:08
So the period after Virgin took over some of the costs and handed over ready made routes, but before they clustered the Bali flying (also ex VA)?
But I agree, virginisation has few winners 😎

morno
21st Mar 2018, 06:55
So the period after Virgin took over some of the costs and handed over ready made routes, but before they clustered the Bali flying (also ex VA)?
But I agree, virginisation has few winners 😎

No, before that. There were no “ready made routes” given to Tigerair during the period I’m referring to.

Let’s not turn this into another “they stole my job just like Jetstar stole my Qantas career” argument.

People don’t seem to get the whole “think as a group” concept.

stormfury
21st Mar 2018, 11:21
Virgin Australia appoints Merren McArthur as Tigerair boss | afr.com (http://www.afr.com/business/transport/aviation/virgin-australia-appoints-merren-mcarthur-as-tigerair-boss-20180321-h0xrsa)

These paragraphs stood out.

Mr Borghetti said she had transformed and strengthened its regional airline and cargo business and he was "confident that she will make an invaluable contribution in this new role".

Ms McArthur said her first focus when she starts is to learn about the business by listening to its staff and stakeholders, a strategy she used when she entered Skywest to get a handle on its business model.

She said one of the aspects of running Tigerair that appealed to her was the innovation under way in the airline designed to help lower its costs but improve customer experience.

For example, Tigerair is replacing its fleet of Airbus A320s with Boeing 737s, which typically offer a similar number of seats. But the 737s will be fitted out with new "slim line" seats that Ms McArthur says allows for an extra six passengers but maintains leg room and existing space for passengers in the aircraft.

Icarus2001
21st Mar 2018, 12:21
Love the language. Changing fleets does not "improve the customer experience" especially with slimline seats. They are all about "an extra six passengers" sharing the same cabin space and waiting for the toilets.

wheels_down
21st Mar 2018, 12:33
Tony then Chris, Shelley, Crawford, Tony again, Andrew, Rob and now Merren.

The merry go round of Tiger bosses rolls on. Tony Davis would be proud.

grrowler
21st Mar 2018, 21:45
Tigerair Australia has completed a challenging turnaround, with its first annual profit. The LCC, now a fully owned subsidiary of Virgin Australia, was profitable for the first time in its nine-year history in the year ending 30-Jun-2016.

Synergies with Virgin Australia, operational improvements and network adjustments have contributed to the transformation. Virgin Australia has joined its rival Qantas in employing an effective two brand strategy, with Tigerair Australia focused entirely on the leisure sector. quote from CAPA article

Get the “Big Picture, Greater Good of the Group”, but pretending Tiger did that on their own is having a lend.

morno
22nd Mar 2018, 05:17
I don't think I ever claimed that Tiger did it on their own grrowler, but there certainly wasn't a fleet transformation going on at that time and they were left a bit to their own devices to get on with it.

As soon as the fleet transformation started and everything else commenced, it all fell apart.

morno

ASY68
22nd Mar 2018, 13:04
VHVNJ and VHVNQ are both in Clark presently.

VHVNJ is getting a repaint to return to the wild west ;)

VHVNQ is being returned to the lessor.

Keep an eye out for VOR heading back to TSV for a repaint...AGAIN...

Information Charles
22nd Mar 2018, 13:22
Shame, because Tiger was really going great until Virgin took over

Really?! The going got great bit is because virgin took over.