atpl conversion

[MAXX]

forgive my ignorance,

how does an aussie pilot covert icao atpl to jaa if I already have in excess of 5000hrs and almost 3000turbine(prop time)
I am looking to try and study for the exams here in australia,anyone know how to do this.

cheers

maxx:

[foghorn]

I think you get the direct (easy) conversion route.

Try www.caa.co.uk or www.jaa.nl for more details.

[Send Clowns]

I believe you have to pass all 14 JAA exams (yes, I know it's ridiculous, but it's JAA). I can't find from the CAA website whether this is entirely correct. However you do not have to go through an approved course, just the required training to pass the exams. If you can't get through to the CAA to confirm call one of the schools' CGI (+44 1202 599888 for ours) and they will usually be able to help.

[redsnail]

G'day Maxx,
In summary,
You'll need to do the 14 JAR ATPL exams in a JAR country. UK would probably be the logical choice.
You'll also need to do a Class 1 medical, again in the UK. It must be done at Gatwick.
Don't know if your turboprop time is multi or single pilot.
If single pilot, now only have to do an abbreviated IR in the UK. Min 15 hours I think. Check on the CAA's website.
If +500hours multi crew and the type is multi pilot (eg Dash 8, Saab etc) then all you need to do is a initial IR check ride on that type you have +500 hours on with the CAA onboard (sim or aircraft observing.
You can do the study for the exams distance learning in Oz but the brush ups must be done in the UK. I'd recommend Bristol.

Have a look here (http://www.mccannhj.flyer.co.uk/flying.htm) for more detailed info.
Note: The CAA have changed the 50 hours IR requirement.

[Send Clowns]

Reddo, I know you have recently done all this, so I may be wrong. I understand there is no need to do a brush-up course at all, or an approved distance-learning course, as maxx need only pass the exams. That is certainly what we are planning for a couple of aquantances of our Aussie instructor who have Aus ATPLs.

As I say, not my speciality, hence the suggestion he phone the CAA or an FTO.

[redsnail]

Send Clowns,
You get time taken off the course. You don't have to do the whole lot. Would you pitch up to do those exams without some study? Waste of a lot of money I'd say. That's why I recommend to those who have time on 737's etc to do a distance learning course.
However, it may have changed again. As you recommend, check out the latest on the CAA's website.

[Send Clowns]

I quite agree with the recommendation, Reddo, and for a distance learning course I would also agree with your recommendation of Bristol. I was trying to define the legal requirements, just in case Maxx may find something more convenient that does not have approval.

[Brettg]

maxx
i live on the sunshine coast and i also want to convert my aussie ATPL (when i get it) i am soon to apply to UNSW (uni in NSW) and they said that there course is going to be parallel to the JAA syllabus (which means that it will be far easier to convert). Give me your email address and i will get in touch with you

Cheers Brett

[Rotorbike]

General Information Document No.25 Version 5 Page 4 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_gid25.pdf)

NON-JAA ATPL(A) LICENCE
The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 may be issued with a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.280 have been met. Applicants must:-

•hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical certificate;

•undertake ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider, and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level;

•qualify for the issue of a UK Flight Radio Telephony Operator’s Licence (FRTOL) in accordance with General Information Document No. 35;

•undertake a multi-pilot aeroplane type rating course at an approved TRTO (see Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.220, Part B for a list of types);

•pass the ATPL(A) skill test in accordance with Appendices 1 and 2 to JAR-FCL 1.240 and 1.295 with, or observed by, a CAA Flight Operations Training Inspector;

Note 1 ATPL(A) holders who have a minimum of 1500 hours flying experience as PIC or Co-pilot on multi-pilot aeroplanes (or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots according to operational requirements) and hold a valid multi-pilot type rating for the aeroplane to be used for the ATPL(A) skill test and have at least 500 hours experience as pilot on that type, will be exempted from the requirements to complete an approved TRTO course or undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the skill test. Pilots with less than 500 hours experience as pilot on the type to be used for the ATPL(A) skill test will be exempted from the requirements to undergo approved training prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations but will still be required to complete an approved type rating course. However, the course may be reduced to take account of previous experience on the same type upon recommendation by the TRTO to PLD.

Note 2 Different terms apply to ATPL(A) holders with a minimum of 3,000 hours flying experience as pilot of public transport aircraft over 30,000kgs MTWA on scheduled international or similar routes, including a minimum of 1,500 hours as Pilot-in-Command (Captain). Applicants who believe they qualify should apply to
PLD for a formal written assessment using form JAR-FCL 680 and enclosing the appropriate fee, actual logbooks and non-UK licence (with validating medical certificate if separate).
The holder of a current and valid ATPL(A) who does not meet the experience requirements for the grant of a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) can still apply for a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR. Refer to General Information Document 24.

[Busterplane]

Dont care personally, as Im well into my career, but why so much enthusiasm for giving info to foreign nationals when they are only likley to increase the competition for the very jobs in the EU that so many posts in this forum say are limited? Dont see australia opening its doors to lots of unemployed brit pilots so why do you encourage them to come here?

[withoutfailure]

Nice attitude busterplane.....I donot think that MAXX was intending on stealin your job...so to speak...I merely think he ios looking to do the CAA to broaden his chances of employment...who said anything about coming to the UK?

Did you have a bad experience in AUS?..If you do not care as you say then why write?

[Busterplane]

No my jobs safe.

Nothing personal to Maxx or anyone who is forced to move to EU or the USA in order to get ahead. My point is that there are many posts hereabouts that winge about there being no jobs about. as that seems to be the case at the mo why are some, including the DTI, the FO and places such as France effectivly shutting the door on foreign nationals flying UK aircraft? according to CAA figures there are 400plus such pilots operating UK registered ac in this country. antipodeans now make up a large minority within JEA/Bea for instance.

I , like I said am secure but hear daily from frustrated pilots who if French would be protected. How do you feel about it?

[erjdriver]

I have an FAA ATP and in the process of converting it into JAA. Here's what I was required to do per CAA.

1. Get a 1st class JAA medical. cost: 200 pounds
2. Pass ALL the 14 ATPL exams, but NOT required to attend formal groundschool. I still decided to go though Bristol GS and happy I've done so. Cost for Bristol (without the brushup courses): 1,000p Cost of exams (roughly): 800p
3. Pass a skill test with a JAA examiner in the type of a/c you are rated. Cost: 500p

That's it! That's is you have 1500 hours multi-crew, a type rating and 500 hours on type.
If you have 3000 hours in a/c >30000kg, with 1500 PIC (P1) on INTERNATIONAL ROUTES (very important point here), then you MAY be exempt from some requiremnts (check with the CAA). US-Canada doesn't quilify as international route...go figure.
I have a bud who had to sit only the Air Law exam, but he is (was, I should say) a DC10 capt flying international.

Good luck.