Cabin safety demonstration

[davidjpowell]

Something occurred to me earlier this week while trying to pay attention to a cabin safety demonstration, despite no clear view.

We had a flight on a 787. Like most long haul planes had seat back screens. However the. Demonstration was done manually.

Now I know that my daughter could not see anything, and indeed my own view was limited. Why on earth would they not use the tv's backed up by a manual demonstration?

[safelife]

Sometimes the IFE isn't loaded with the correct video (wrong language), or the crew performed the demonstration for training purposes.

[ExXB]

I believe that manual demonstrations are required at random to keep the crew current. Or it could be a technical reason.

I was on a flight not so long ago where the lead announced "cabin crew manual demonstration". You could hear the groans and scrambling from all compass points.

[Alsacienne]

I just wish passengers would be courteous enough to stop talking, listening through their headphones, watching their phone videos/playing games etc to allow the safety briefing to be heard and seen. The level of disrespect is increasing and it's my life other passengers are putting at risk. I am always delighted when a demonstration is stopped and a PA call is made to tell everyone to pay attention. It's necessary EVERY time you fly.

[Sobelena]

I'm with you Alsacienne. Unfortunately it's a sign of the times, i.e. total disrespect for everything!

[Avitor]

Passengers not paying attention is discourteous to cabin crew, no matter how many times safety has been put in front of them it should be heeded. Such are the vagaries of human nature.......'I do not need this'....Yes you do!

[davidjpowell]

Although when you can't see very much it does not help with the interest....

Certainly we must be very unlucky as we had the manual demonstration both ways...

I do remember the groan on a BA flight when clearly the IFE decided that it was not playing the game that day... From what I recall, it then put up a 30 minute flight as to whether it would work at all...

[vctenderness]

It is usually a problem with the IFE system. The crew test the safety demo prior to boarding if there is a problem they get the manual kit ready.

Sometimes it works on the pre board test and then goes t***s up when its for real. That's when you hear the 'dreaded' announcement.

[RAT 5]

Passengers not paying attention is discourteous to cabin crew,

It is also discourteous to fellow pax who are trying to listen. In a cinema the other customers will tell them to pipe down, why not on an a/c?

Sometimes CA's stop and ask for attention. Personally I'd include the addictive, "some passengers are unfamiliar with these instructions and as a courtesy to them please STFU."

[Alsacienne]

RAT5 +100

[ExXB]

Some airline simply put a recording on and then the crew and those pax,who don't speak that language, simply ignore it. Now that is discourteous and IMHO dangerous.

But it's done in English, some here will argue. That's good enough.

[Alsacienne]

English and ..... but when you're flying from Basel, do you offer French or German as a recorded briefing in a second language ... I've heard both on many occasions but never together!

[jonkster]

Maybe this won't go well here but I can sympathise with passengers who do not pay attention to safety briefings.

I try and look like I am paying attention out of politeness but after hearing the same briefings over and over again, it is hard to switch on.

It is a question of how we work around human behaviour. Telling people they must pay attention really doesn't work as much as we would like it to.

Many travelers have been on consecutive flights over several days and had the same briefing telling them how to fasten their seat belt and where the life vests are and that the emergency exits are where the crew are pointing (and the crew then wave their hands forwards and backwards which doesn't actually tell you where *your* nearest exit is) and after say 4 or 5 times hearing that same script and demonstration in the last 24 hours, any wonder people turn off?

What can be done? What is the needed information passengers must be familiar with?

For a first time flier, maybe how to fasten a seat belt but for most people, hearing that part of the briefing is the signal to switch off - the majority of travelers have been able to fasten their belts for years and being told and shown how it is done wears thin.

I do not have many answers to how this can be resolved but some of the videos that employ some measure of humour and novelty at least grab people's attention (like funny adverts - however even then seeing the same video time and time again gets tired). Maybe multiple videos not the same one every time so you get to see some novelty?

Really important things that make a difference in an emergency could be reinforced in other ways, not just the briefing.

Where is your *actual* nearest exit? (and the next nearest in the other direction) - perhaps each seat back should have a label indicating that for that seat?

Do not retrieve baggage from lockers in an evacuation. Perhaps labeling that on the lockers and on boarding passes?

The brace position - illustrated on the back of the seat?

Oxygen mask deployment and use? I don't know - but being told it in the middle of a script after people have switched off perhaps isn't working that well.

Much effort and money goes into analysing human behaviour, working out how humans' attention and interest can be grabbed by people selling things in the in-flight magazines. Perhaps some of that effort and ingenuity could be used in working out how to inform people of essential things they need to know when travelling in an aircraft?

[Bealzebub]

Jonkster, I both agree and disagree with what you say, and it is a subject we regard as being important.

To start with the contentious point. Thank you for giving the impression of paying attention, because in truth that is probably quite helpful. Repetition plays quite a significant part of how we conduct the whole operation. For example, every flight involves the crew briefing each other on the (hopefully) salient points of that particular phase of the flight. The "take off brief" will rarely involve something the crew hasn't considered many times before, but with emphasis on current "threats and errors" what it does do is to put the salient points back into pre-frontal cortex of the brain. In essence this is the brains "post it" note and moves that particular information back into the short term memory. This is important, because the onset of a "fight or flight" response is likely to cause heavy reliance on both survival (instinctive) memory, and what has been placed into that short term memory.

Take the seat belt scenario. There are many examples of potentially survivable accidents where victims who seemingly should have been able to escape are found still strapped in their seats and then seemingly overcome by a subsequent fatal event. Interviews with survivors sometimes reveal the difficulty they had getting out of their seat. In a "panic" or survival situation where the relevant escape actions weren't preeminent in the short term memory, the survival instinct was to rely on the instinctive response. That instinctive response was often to reach for the seatbelt release where it instinctively is everyday in your car, which (of course) isn't where it is in the aircraft!

I think that in many cases of "God not this stuff again" be it ahead or behind the flight deck door, the reality is that even though you may believe you have "switched off" More often than not that information is still refreshed in the prefrontal cortex and serves the intended purpose to some degree. Even if that is not universally the case, there is only so much you can do, and it is incumbent on those responsible to do it.

Where I do agree with you, is in how the delivery provides the best level of take up so that passengers and then crew minimize the time exposed to jeopardy and therefore optimise survivability. To their credit, some airlines (air New Zealand being one notable example) have put some serious thought, effort, and money into this subject. Humour is often successful, but it can be very subjective and still becomes stale with repeated exposure. Keeping the subject fresh has a significant cost element, and beyond the regulatory requirements, cost is always going to weigh heavily.

The reality (of course) is that commercial flying is extremely safe and routine, and dealing with the necessity of rare (but unpredictable) emergencies is always going to involve compromise. To that end I think we realistically have to accept some element of compromise. However, accepting the weaknesses of human behaviour (which to a greater or lesser degree we are all guilty of) I suspect the answer lies in a combination of better technical evolution, more effective education, and better human interaction between the crew and the passengers. Unfortunately, I doubt that will be a rapid development.

[ExXB]

I agree Junkster that the timing and content of the safety demonstration need to be rethought.

Some things, like bags in the lockers, should be conveyed much earlier - I would say even before boarding. 'Learning' this while taxiing is too late.

A little more interaction might help. Asking pax to locate their two closest exits, and to count the rows. Why not say "Ladies and Gents, there is one thing you need to leave behind in the evacuation. What is it?" Or "Is this anyone's first flight? Hands up please" and then show them how the seatbelt works. (It is different than most first time flyers have ever seen) And not the same interaction every time.

Some of we SLF know the routine as well as many cabin crew. Before the briefing has started I have secured my carryon, buckled my belt, located my life jacket, counted the rows fore and aft to the nearest exits on both sides, located the panel for the O2, familiarised myself with exit openings (B737 particularly inconsistent here) etc.

What's being done today hasn't been looked at for decades and it should be. It seems these things only get reviewed following accidents.

Yes hairbrained ideas but what we are doing isn't really working - as evidenced by the disinterest of passengers.

[crewmeal]

Whilst many SLF travel with their favourite carrier time and time again, how many actually pay attention to "Please note your nearest exit" especially when an aircraft is all in EY config? The other point to note is a shorter taxi to the runway. I've been on several flights when the safety briefing has been shown during and after take off.

[Squawk 6042]

I have often thought it wood be good if there was an area in the airport terminal where you could practice putting on a life jacket and pulling down and putting on the oxygen mask. (I always have a vision of pulling so hard that the tube detaches!)

[davidjpowell]

I've got a few thoughts...

How many of us need telling how to put on a seat belt? Extra words that encourage one to tone out.

Baggage - I get that we should leave baggage behind in an emergency. I also get that some people just don't get it. In recent evacuations where people have taken baggage has it made a difference? I mention as a discussion point more than anything else.

[jonkster]

I also get that some people just don't get it. In recent evacuations where people have taken baggage has it made a difference? I mention as a discussion point more than anything else.

FWIW I read an article recently (it included links to passenger phone videos) where passengers clogged up the aisles during an actual evacuation, trying to get their bags out of the lockers as people were trying to get out and then trying to use the escape slides with them (think it was in Australian Flight Safety?).

I recall the article seemed to say that people went into a different mind set when things went wrong and were stressed and wanted to make it all more familiar and normal and safe - leaving your personal possessions behind was not what felt like normal or familiar or safe behaviour to many - despite being repeatedly yelled at by cabin crew to leave their bags, they automatically wanted their stuff with them. :(

I think showing that evacuation video with the aisles clogged would make for better compliance should the worst happen, than being told in a briefing not to get their bags if evacuating...

[S.o.S.]

Welcome to the cabin, Squawk 6042. :ok: That's an interesting suggestion. Please do stay to enjoy the company.

[Squawk 6042]

Thank-you! Yes, it would be an interesting way to pass some spare terminal time. Maybe a small mock up of two rows of seats, practice taking the life vest out and putting it on; also the oxygen mask. I'm sure it would be a good spectator sport! I find doing a much better way of learning than watching/reading.

[Heathrow Harry]

The CC are concerned - but the airlines? they are worried that if they make it sound dangerous people will stop using them (maybe go to New York on passenger liner ?)

A proper safety breifing would say "fasten your seal belt or your head maybe spread over the roof of this aeroplane... "

it would get attention but marketing would go ballistic.......

The real problem is that flying IS VERY SAFE - far more so than driving a car - and teh passengers realise it..........

[Dubaian]

Am I in a minority of one in thinking that life jacket demos (or videos) are pretty much useless for large aircraft on scheduled services? How many incidents can you recall where passengers did don jackets as instructed and did it made any difference to survivability?

Fast evacuation on the ground is much more likely to save lives - and that means NOT getting your stuff out of the overhead lockers. Emirates were very very lucky not to lose anybody when they had a 777 pancake in Dubai and catch fire resulting in a total hull loss. Yet I believe the Indian Embassy only had 9 requests for replacement passports after the crash - since virtually everyone on board on a flight from India took the time to get their hand baggage out of the lockers. Lucky indeed to get out in time when several slides were unusable.

High time to take a look at drastically revamping the content and presentation of standard safety vids/demos. IMO.

[physicus]

Try and beat me to the emergency exit. I will climb over you and your attempts at getting your bags. I spend almost as much time in the air as air crew of late. The only things I check every time during the briefing really are:
- count the rows to the exit back and fro.
- check where your life vest is, physically, touch it, can you reach it, is it there (had missing vests before!)
- know that you actually have to pull on the oxy mask canula to get the flow going
- know where the portable O2 is
- yell at anyone getting up before the FSB sign is off.

That's pretty much it. And god do I wish those multilingual airlines would simplify things and have a single safety video in native tongue and english subs!

[HeartyMeatballs]

To be honest as the end of a long flight people are probably so tired and it's been so long since they heard the demo ore takeoff that they should always be reminded to locate their nearest exits, review the safety card and if an evacuation becomes necessary to leave all hand baggage behind. Its the same on holidays flights too when people are more concerned about the beach/hotels/sites they've been looking forward to for months and that's all they're bothered about on the approach, particularly if they've had a couple of drinks onboard.

[ExXB]

HM, Air Canada does that. Perhaps all Canadian airlines.

[HeartyMeatballs]

That's good. I'm sure I heard it about the exits during approach on a US airline. I think it was United. More airlines should do it.

[Donkey497]

Air Transat cabin crew repeat the reminder to checkthe nearest exits front and back as they start the "prep for landing" announcements.

[PAXboy]

DubaianAm I in a minority of one in thinking that life jacket demos (or videos) are pretty much useless for large aircraft on scheduled services? How many incidents can you recall where passengers did don jackets as instructed and did it made any difference to survivability?
The topic has been aired in here before, I think. Whilst I agree with you - no regulator is going to change that. Regulators are subject to politicians, at some point. Try to persuade a politician to remove a 'protection' will have them worried that the family of the next person to really need a life-jacket will be in court faster than to the hospital.

The same goes for removing shoes at security because one man once failed to bring a working bomb on board in his shoes. [I sit to be corrected]

[Background Noise]

I've got a few thoughts...

How many of us need telling how to put on a seat belt? Extra words that encourage one to tone out.

Not many maybe, but there is likely to be a first timer somewhere - everybody had to have a first time.

I guess I am used to dos and don'ts but i feel there is too much shilly shallying in most of the wording. Went on Aer Lingus for the first time recently and the announcements were excellent - e.g. 'Smoking is illegal, failure to obey orders from the crew is punishable by imprisonment' - do this, do that, it was spot on. Doesn't mean everyone listened of course but it set a good tone.

[configsafenot]

Aside from those who ignore the preflight safety demo, I wish there was a gizmo that as soon as the aircraft started to taxi towards the runway for takeoff an autolock triggered on the overhead bins that stayed autolocked til the seatbelt sign went off and when the aircraft started to descend that same autolock triggered and did not come off til the aircraft was latched onto its airbridge.....that would be wonderful

[ExXB]

Just one more thing to break.

I'd hate to be delayed or cancelled if this 'vital' piece of equipment was U/S.

[G SXTY]

To try and answer the OP's question, why the manual safety demo?

As a current 787 driver I can think of a couple of possibilities, either:

(a) The IFE system was playing up and refusing to play the pre-recorded video.

or (more likely)

(b) The APU was unserviceable, requiring a ground power start. Like most systems on the 787, engine start uses electric power, and - funny old thing - it imposes quite a big drain on the ground power unit(s). As a result the aircraft cunningly load-sheds electric systems, so a GPU start is likely to knock out the IFE - hence the manual demo.

[configsafenot]

Just one more thing to break.

I'd hate to be delayed or cancelled if this 'vital' piece of equipment was U/S.


I just don't like being stood on or belted around the head by a wayward suitcase from the locker as we taxy around a corner....it hurts

If the lockers stayed locked til the airbridge was attached and door open, then everyone would have to learn that rarest of things upon arrival...patience

On a safety aspect...lockers that locked would also stop the luggage going down the emergency slides too cos no-one would be able to get at it....perfect remedy for those who insist on being welded to their duty free and suitcase when evacuating the plane

[S.o.S.]

configsafenot Many would agree but the topic has been discussed in here before. usually after every incident where there are images of pax down the slides with luggage.

There are numerous arguments (both ways) and if you search the forum you should be able to find them.

[davidjpowell]

To try and answer the OP's question, why the manual safety demo?

As a current 787 driver I can think of a couple of possibilities, either:

(a) The IFE system was playing up and refusing to play the pre-recorded video.

or (more likely)

(b) The APU was unserviceable, requiring a ground power start. Like most systems on the 787, engine start uses electric power, and - funny old thing - it imposes quite a big drain on the ground power unit(s). As a result the aircraft cunningly load-sheds electric systems, so a GPU start is likely to knock out the IFE - hence the manual demo.

Thanks G SXTY.

It was a very nice airplane to be chauffeured in - even in the back... (hopefully you were not responsible for the collision with the ground on our return to Manchester. A rather 'firm' landing :))

[G SXTY]

Not me - I've never taken one into MAN (although I have tried to flatten that hump a few times in a previous life). ;)

The 787 is a tricky little bugger to land smoothly though - it's big brother is much better at achieving crowd pleasing touchdowns. That beautiful wing just doesn't want to come back down to earth . . .

[Basil]

I have often thought it wood be good if there was an area in the airport terminal where you could practice putting on a life jacket and pulling down and putting on the oxygen mask. (I always have a vision of pulling so hard that the tube detaches!)
. . . and a rigged evacuation slide to keep the kids (and adults) amused ;)

[Dairyground]

I the last year I have flown in various cabins with five different airlines. Only one of them identified the location of emergency exits by reference to row numbers. On a widebody with fixed cabins, it may be best to that there are exits at the front and rear of each cabin section. But on a single-aisle aircraft without hard dividers it would be very useful to identify the exits by row number as well as by (usually ineffectually) pointing to them. Most people know which row they are in and can do simple arithmetic, so working out whether forward or backward is the best direction, at briefing time, is quite easy - much easier than counting rows when the cabin is full. of course in an actual emergenc it may be better to follow the crowd and head for the popular, rather thna logical, direction.

[easyflyer83]

EasyJet has recently updated it's descent PA as well, asking pax to review the safety card and to leave all cabin baggage on board should an evacuation be necessary.

[crewmeal]

Just to prove a point some carriers demonstrate safety on take off. In this case Egyptair from Luxor to Cairo.

ysRTt6Uf4QA

[Basil]

I think any real professional crew on here are aware that the briefing is probably your last opportunity to formulate an initial plan for an, admittedly unlikely, shockingly violent, noisy and bloody situation.
No matter how often you've flown before, you will almost certainly be sitting in a different place, on a different aircraft type, day or night. Remember there are different developments and cabin layouts of most types.
On the flight deck, we brief every departure and arrival as if it will NOT go according to plan; could be a clue there . . .

[Harry Wayfarers]

There's no beating the cr@p out of passengers with my local airline, we're all very informal here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU

[RAT 5]

My wife, and ex C/A, and I always sit in a correct position for the takeoff roll and last couple of 100'. Glasses off and feet away from the 'made to break your feet bar' underneath the seat in front, and ears open. I'm amazed how many people continue to read the newspaper without a care in the world. Blind faith is wonderful, until it is disrespected. :uhoh:

[Basil]

There's no beating the cr@p out of passengers with my local airline, we're all very informal here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqh8e2KYIrU
Got MY attention! "Breath normally!"? - Yeah, sure.

[easyflyer83]

That's all well and good RAT 5 but in fairness to pax those kind of actions are things you learn as crew, not as a passenger.

There is however a need to perhaps educate passengers as they are blissfully unaware of why we, as crew, do things. Arguments with passengers are becoming more frequent when all we are asking them to do is something related to safety. i.e bags under seats, not blocking exits etc etc. They don't seem to grasp that we are essentially making the cabin that bit more survivable should an emergency or accident occur on take off or landing. But then, it's rarely explained to them and after all these years, the role of cabin crew is still not truly understood amongst your average Joe.

[PAXboy]

So true easyflyer83. All carriers have always gone for advertising around the CC giving cabin service not cabin safety. No one wants to talk about safety. Whereas, car manufacturers talk about safety features all the time! When it comes to public transport - trains, planes, cruise ships and bus/coaches? No one says a word.

It has long be held in the airline world that to talk about safety would, rather than reassure, frighten pax away and 'tempt fate' the next time the carrier had a prang.

[DaveReidUK]

Iberia's short-lived marketing campaign many years ago is a perfect illustration of that.

[IBMJunkman]

Ever since I saw a deadheading pilot take out the safety card and read it over I have done the same. If he felt it was important to do I should, too.