Monarch

[320330kutscher]

hello,
just general how company doing ?
hows it to work ?

recruitment ,question on what to expect on the Interview in Luton and the Sim ?

[Snapper5]

I have been in the company for around 6 years ,
Although we have had some ups and downs I still believe that Monarch is one of the better places to work . The package is still very good compared to other airlines ...
During our only crisis recently ( not the one a few months ago which was caused by enthusiastic plane spotters but the one in 2014) lots of my friends and colleagues left to other airlines BA, Easy etc... and the grass isn't always greener
They regret there decision
Lots of rumours at the moment regarding LH
Quick time to command , around 6 years (I'm due soon)
Easy days out (2 sectors)
Fantastic guys and gals like a small flying club
Not sure about the current recruitment

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

During our only crisis recently ( not the one a few months ago which was caused by enthusiastic plane spotters but the one in 2014)

Yeah yeah, keep denying it but we know the truth.

[Snapper5]

I'm sure you "all" do , it's amazing the negativity monarch has from fellow aviators ?
It's as if Monarch is an airline which is new in the industry crushing T&Cs for all involved ?

[Enzo999]

I was one of those that left and believe me I wish I had not. It's a great company with lovely people, decent 2 sector rosters, good pay and conditions. The only negative is that constant dark cloud that hangs over it and questions regarding its current ownership and their plans for the future. If you can live with that and the airline lasts you will be rewarded with in my opinion the best job in the UK.

[Snapper5]

I agree with you Enzo , the only negative (which alas is a big one ) is the dark cloud .
But I believe in this industry there is always a pay off , some folks love working as a number in a huge organisation with rock solid stability but fly till you die work . But I prefer an easy lifestyle ( max pay for least work ) while it lasts

[Crosswind Limits]

JFP,

You have absolutely no idea what really happened! It never surprises me how some (emphasis on "some") of our colleagues from our competitors would rather we sank as an airline. How sad!

At the moment the company is in as good a financial position it has ever been and I am quite optimistic about the future. The company knows it has to expand and longhaul is a strong possibility sooner rather than later. Despite what some say, I am impressed with Greybull who come across as very business savvy. It is clear they want to grow the airline and our current CEO Andrew Swaffield is one of the very best in his field.

I joined in Spring last year and overall I am very happy. The vast majority of my colleagues are first class, both as pilots and people. I nearly always have a good day out! A pleasant place to work without doubt. Summers are extremely busy and winters much quieter.

Selection is fairly straightforward. Online testing followed by a selection day at Luton including a group exercise, a briefing exercise and interview. Be yourself they know what type of person they are looking for! Sim ride was straightforward and fairly similar to most other airlines. They are hot on decision making and situational awareness as an airline and if you display these qualities in the sim, you will pass no problem. Not looking for perfection, just improvement and above all operate safely!

Good luck.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

JFP,

You have absolutely no idea what really happened! It never surprises me how some (emphasis on "some") of our colleagues from our competitors would rather we sank as an airline. How sad!

Where did I say that I would like to see Monarch disappear? Correct I didn't, and nor would I. Having suffered that fate at a previous employer I wouldn't wish it on my own worst enemy. However there can be no doubt that at the end of October 16 Monarch were right in the brink, no matter how much you don't like it and don't want to believe it. I hope Monarch continue to prosper, but their situation and their constantly changing model does give rise to concern.

[Crosswind Limits]

What happened last autumn was almost a self fulfilling prophecy. Prior to the ATOL debacle, the company was NOT in financial difficulty but with the conspiring circumstmaces that developed, was almost pushed to the brink! Not having to bond our flights only, is a millstone we have gladly shed!

[Cuillin Hills]

It's as if Monarch is an airline which is new in the industry crushing T&Cs for all involved ?

Exactly what the Mantegazza's and Greybull conspired to do their employees in August 2014.

Ask your Captain (who has been there for twenty+ years) about his DB pension and loss of all the increments he had earned due long service and loyalty.

They are taking a hit that is in the hundreds of thousands of pounds - just like the British Midland pensioners.

Greybull had an airline that had nearly 50 aircraft but were only interested in an airline with 32 aircraft.

There is a degree of paranoia displayed by a couple of posters on here that indicate that their fellow pilots, in other airlines, wish they would fail. Absolute nonsense.

I hope to god that Monarch survive - I genuinely do - but some of the comments on here are best described as delusional.

I left fairly recently and don't regret it. I have seen too many of my friends wake up in the morning and find that they have lost their job. I will do everything within my power to stop that happening to myself.

I still can't work out the logic of doing a switch from Airbus to Boeing at such a critical stage in the airline's recovery. Airbus are still scratching their heads.

Best of luck.

[Lazydogg]

Just out of interest would anyone care to share the latest financial package on offer for a Monarch Captain?

It would be interesting to compare it to Easy, Ryanair, Norwegian and Jet2.

[Iver]

I think Monarch is, and always was, a class act. Very hopeful for its future.

You Airbus guys looking forward to the MAX? When will we see them on the ramp? Which bases will see them first? At one point I saw an ad for hiring pilots with 737 type/experience for the MAX - is that still the case?

[Alloy]

Cuillin Hills sums up my feelings on Monarch very nicely having been one of those longtermers.

[Crosswind Limits]

I have been on PPRUNE a very long time but I have never been called paranoid or delusional! :rolleyes:

Anyway, for the avoidance of doubt, no one knows how things will pan out with Monarch. Five years down the road will Monarch exist in its present form or be merged/subsumed with another airline?

Whilst I'm a recent joiner, I have friends who have been at Monarch for many years. The Mantegazza family ran the airline for their own ends and then summarily ditched it when it no longer served their needs. Many loyal and long serving employees were shafted no two ways about it. That said, if it wasn't for the rescue package put forward by Greybull in late 2014, none of us would be in a job. The rescue was painful, extremely painful even but by then Monarch had run out of options. Slashing the final salary pension scheme, cutting salaries and working hours was inevitable. Whilst the airline was saved, the process generated bitterness and resentment from some senior employees. Many left or simply retired but a few stayed on. They are easy to spot in the crew room and everyone knows who they are. Thankfully there aren't that many! There are quite a few long term employees who are still guarded about the future and that is understable but we are where we are! The move to a low cost model has been a success, albeit painful. Longhaul was stopped because it was never done efficiently, not my words but those of long standing in the airline. Moving forward if Monarch think they can do longhaul efficiently and profitably they will do it as there is definitely a market for it!

As to why the fleet change, no one knows for certain but I have heard the following. Airbus seemed to have lost interest whereas Boeing were dead keen on creating a new relationship and the subsequent terms and conditions offered were far more suitable for Monarch. I don't believe anyone at Airbus was scratching their heads because of the fleet change decision contrary to what has been said by another poster. However, the fleet change is a logistical nightmare and how it's all going to work out is anyone's guess! There is talk of A321s remaining at LGW because of slot restrictions which is another complication!

For those that are interested, the basic salary quoted on PPJN for a year 1 FO is correct. When I joined we were only offered a 10/13 contract but very soon after were offered 12/13 which I'm now on. Those that want it are now going full time from this May. I haven't got time to dig out the exact figures, but there's also flight pay, pension, private medical, LoL insurance and 30 days annual leave. However, where PPJN is wrong is saying that the travel perks are rubbish which they most definitely now are not! In fact they are really quite good and include standby with many other airlines like BA and Emirates.

Anyway, in a nutshell, I am paid on time every time and I am treated like an individual. The company is very reasonable and accommodating most of the time and genuinely a nice place to work. Unless things change dramatically, I plan to see my career out at Monarch if I can!

[Alycidon]

Crosswind

Many left or simply retired but a few stayed on. They are easy to spot in the crew room and everyone knows who they are. Thankfully there aren't that many!

I don't understand what your point is, should they all have left?

[Crosswind Limits]

Alycidon,

I didn't have a specific point as such and no of course they shouldn't necessarily have left the company.

[Snapper5]

I'm glad in a way that Monarch has had its change or modernisation as they like to call it . Pre 2014 the airline was almost like a legacy carrier from the 60s ,
Lots of the 20+ year captains were living the life of Larry , 600 hours a year mixed fleet on full pay , a monthly week trip to the Maldives or Goa etc.. , staying in a nice all inclusive and still getting £1k worth of voyage pay ,
A pension which would give them 60k a year ? (Better than the top legacy carriers)
Whilst all this was happening the orange airline and the Irish airline were appearing and squashing T&Cs , making everything cheaper ,the start of the race to the bottom ,
So we had to do something to compete , and for now it's worked ,
I find it very frustrating when the older guys moan about how they lost out , whilst deep down I know I will never see that type of remuneration and lifestyle ,
Look at BA SH modernising , BOB food , smaller seats , pp34 , lots of bad press recently , supposedly a unhappy place to work especially with Mr Cruz at the helm ,
Why pay £150 for BA when you could pay £70 for easy ? Same package , easy is probably better in there own game
Everyone has felt the squeeze and these are the toughest aviation conditions ever with over saturated roots , terror , fuel ...

But considering all of this I still get my 4300k a month (6yr fo) and I'm part time , still fly with my friends , and always have a great day out ! Even if Monarch ever went tits up ( considering it is the oldest airline in the U.K. It hasn't done too bad ) I'm sure it would be bought or absorbed into another airline , thus no job loss (no pilots have ever been let loose)

[Enzo999]

£4300 a month part time!!! Maybe with 5 day off working payments. The conditions are decent at Mon but not that good.

[Snapper5]

Do you have the ctc bond repayment worth about 500 I think ? I try and get 2 DOW a month

[Snapper5]

I'm 12/13ths so not really that part time

[Enzo999]

Ok that's makes more sense, even so £4300 must be a good month I can't imagine you were taking home that much during the winter months. Even so I totally agree with you comments about the old guard at Monarch they enjoyed terms and conditions the rest of us will never experience, unfortunately this industry has gone backwards and Monarch needed to join the rest at the bottom.

[Snapper5]

Just went through my finances and that is average , well completely average would be £4220 (2016) were you a CTC grad ? That really does top it up ! It's a great shame about the overall state of things at play in the industry ! May I ask Enzo where you went to after Mon ? Just for interest

[Enzo999]

No was not CTC, so I guess if your figure includes top up payments for that it would make sense as I say most months I was taking home between 3.5 and 3.8 a month. I went to BA, heard about guys getting quick commands so thought I would join them, unfortunately I am now sat at the bottom of a seniority list longer than a phone book with no movement expected any time soon, still as the saying goes you win some and you loose some.

[Alloy]

Snapper, what was done with the final salary pension was criminal in my and I believe many other people's minds. I and many others will not get what we put into our final salary pension, nor will we ever get a large proportion of the companies contribution of what was basically defered pay. If I did that to you then you would call it theft.

Not a criticism of ZB, rather the industry, but I'm not aware of any other profession where professionals are prepared to go on seasonal (10/13 etc.) pay and contracts in the quiet months just to start employment having payed for their own professional licence. We are our own worst enemies at times.

[Snapper5]

Enzo - we get some strange bond repayment scheme not entirely sure how it works . I know some guys that went to BA , heard it's like marmite. At least you don't have the cloud

Alloy - It is definitely criminal what the company has done or should I say what the mantagezzas have done , Is the reason they did it so the company was attractive for a purchase ?
I love working part time !! The way you should look at it is essentially working less for more income (tax reasons) also in the winters you would just be sitting around on standby , besides I flex a week in winter if I have no plans , tops the salary back up ! Win win !
The way the industry is going most people will burn out after a career in aviation unless they go part time .
You need to talk to the cadets at Ryanair and easy , pay to fly anyone ? Flexiscrew , they have screwed it for us

[renort]

Sounds very much like you're alright Jack. Well done.
I remember people on here 7-8 years ago encouraging everyone to join as it was the best T&C's about, while others could see the huge pension hole for what it was turning the company into.
A bit less of the wallet waving and a bit more educated delving into future plans would serve you well.

[Snapper5]

Renort do you really think in this world that there is such a thing as a job for life ? I can't think of any airline that was the same as it was 7-8 years ago ( although Thomson I hear is very good still)
The whole purpose of this thread was how is monarch doing ? How is it to work there ?

Monarch is doing ok .
To work here it is excellent! Great people !treated like an adult ! But as explained there is always a slight niggle in the back of your mind regarding the future , if you can get over that keep your head down and just enjoy your life then you will be rewarded with one of the best airlines in the U.K.

[tubby linton]

The family wound the company up for a number of reasons, the pension defecit being one, but also increased financial regulation made their money laundering much more difficult.The industry had changed and a failure to invest and move with the times meant they were actually going to have to spend serious amounts of money.
They have now moved into river cruises with their company Avalon waterways,and property As the airline was being deliberately prepared for execution they purchased a lot of brand new vessels, and built the Palazzo Mantegazza in Lugano.

[Crosswind Limits]

GDAJB

There's no sabre waving and I can't argue with your fair comments. Tubby and Snapper5 also more or less summarise Monarch's issues which finally came to a head in late 2014.

[Cuillin Hills]

A couple of years ago I watched the film 'Wall Street' even though it is over 30 years old.

It involves Michael Douglas thinking he is very clever in maximising money for himself (and only himself) as he s****s some airline employees in the Midwest US.

Some of the parallels with Monarch were uncanny.

I am sure there was a Gordon Gecko somewhere in the midst of the negotiations (at some, no doubt, swanky villa/hotel somewhere) as the Greybull 'team' discussed the best options with the Mantegazza 'team' as to how to do what was best for them.

As people have said already - the pension theft was criminal.

The people at Monarch are, generally, superb. It needs more than that, though.

[45989]

I'm glad in a way that Monarch has had its change or modernisation as they like to call it . Pre 2014 the airline was almost like a legacy carrier from the 60s ,
Lots of the 20+ year captains were living the life of Larry , 600 hours a year mixed fleet on full pay , a monthly week trip to the Maldives or Goa etc.. , staying in a nice all inclusive and still getting £1k worth of voyage pay ,
A pension which would give them 60k a year ? (Better than the top legacy carriers)
Whilst all this was happening the orange airline and the Irish airline were appearing and squashing T&Cs , making everything cheaper ,the start of the race to the bottom ,
So we had to do something to compete , and for now it's worked ,
I find it very frustrating when the older guys moan about how they lost out , whilst deep down I know I will never see that type of remuneration and lifestyle ,
Look at BA SH modernising , BOB food , smaller seats , pp34 , lots of bad press recently , supposedly a unhappy place to work especially with Mr Cruz at the helm ,
Why pay £150 for BA when you could pay £70 for easy ? Same package , easy is probably better in there own game
Everyone has felt the squeeze and these are the toughest aviation conditions ever with over saturated roots , terror , fuel ...

But considering all of this I still get my 4300k a month (6yr fo) and I'm part time , still fly with my friends , and always have a great day out ! Even if Monarch ever went tits up ( considering it is the oldest airline in the U.K. It hasn't done too bad ) I'm sure it would be bought or absorbed into another airline , thus no job loss (no pilots have ever been let loose)

A poster boy for the Ruinair generation. So Sad. Used to be a profession once believe or not. Now snot nosed idiots who would sell their granny if it got them "advancement" on the declining slippery pole on the race to the bottom

[Snapper5]

45989

Yes it used to be a great Profession ! Until airlines started selling you a dream
Very sad , then you get guys on here bitterly hoping that a good airline with still respectable terms should fold ? Also sad ?
Maybe we could drag everyone down and start a new level of low cost . Level ? now that sounds familiar

[Cuillin Hills]

45989

Very sad , then you get guys on here bitterly hoping that a good airline with still respectable terms should fold ? Also sad ?


Where, on here, has anyone said that?

Some people have been in the industry a long time and have seen how airlines and their owners work. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. Perhaps they are just being practical but you are misunderstanding that? The more you come out with sentences like the above then the more likely the word 'paranoia' gets used.

People have been very supportive and complimentary of the airline, in general, and quite right too.

Excellent post, by the way, G-DAJB.

[applecrumble]

Put aside the issues which are largely now put in the past which have been discussed already.

Some of the great things about the company:
-Brilliant people and good working relationship between crew and flight deck
-Good T&C'S
-Good overtime rate £448
-Good definition of a day off
-Easy day at work. 2 sectors and 99% of the time have a cracking day out at "work"
-Good training department

You could do a lot lot lot worse. Overall, a great place to work in my opinion.

[harry the cod]

GDAJB

A mature and measured reply to some rather disappointing and selfish comments from other readers. Your articulate reflection of a once great Company and a bygone era is extremely accurate, as is the mention of pay & conditions 15-20 years ago. Thankfully, as you say, the culture of such a legacy remains in those still working there. It is the people, ultimately, that makes the airline what it is...or isn't!

One of the best and somewhat poignant posts I've read in a very long time. Thank you.

[Crosswind Limits]

GDAJB

An eloquent post clearly borne out of a long association with the 'Monarch family'! There is definitely a legacy feel to many of my more senior colleagues, both pilots and cabin crew.

Monarch is by and large a warm and friendly airline and I'm proud to be part of the team. The training cadre is second to none. High standards are expected but with that comes empathy and understanding from the trainers. A very pastoral approach, where if you show hard work, potential and importantly, humility, you will be nurtured and your potential ultimately fulfilled.

There is a 'Monarch type' and the recruitment team have known this for years - birds of a feather............... :ok:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Us older ones have a lot of affection for MON. I learnt much from a true legend there GE the ex Crewing Manager whose base line answer was always NO.
But what about this n that that other Airlines get - NO.
But despite this everyone I knew at MON loved working there.
At the same time MON were competing with Britannia and they have survived with many of the "benefits" that MON Staff have lost so you can understand some of the angst.

[DH626]

I'm going to be starting with Monarch non type rated soon and am very much looking forward to it. Throughout the whole interview process it felt very warm and friendly and the impression from everyone I met working for the company was always positive so am looking forward to becoming part of the team.

[Snapper5]

DH626

Welcome onboard ! You will thoroughly enjoy it

[Lou Scannon]

As an ex LHS chap from F.C. (but without any staff travel)...I regularly fly Monarch to the Canaries and Faro.....because my wife and I like it.

In particular the attitude of the cabin staff leaves us both happy and looking forward to the next trip.

Keep it up team!

[FlipFlapFlop]

DH626. You will enjoy Monarch. It is a great place to work.

[Enzo999]

Monarch must be one of the best places to start your career as a pilot.
I don't know anyone from my time at OAA that earned as much as I did in the first few years, not by a long way!! Over £55k gross first year, not including pension contributions and this was at 85% salary. (Money isn't everything, but to a debt ridden inexperienced FO it means a lot with house prices the way they are)
I get treated 100% better by my company. My T's C's are fantastic and my overtime pay is double or triple theirs.
I'm sure there are good people at every airline, but as mentioned before, its like a flying club. I just did 4 days flying in a row and none of it felt like work (2 sectors is great).
'Those' people we've all flown with are so rare I only know of 1 at my base, the largest MON base.
Feel secure that MON engineering is some of the best in Europe.
Great training department.
Work hard like all short haul carriers in the summer then chill out for the winter (sorry) on 30 hours a month average doing weeks of standbys not being called. That said, I did maximum 75 hours a month summer '16, easy peasy ;)

Can't help with the recruitment side.

I am fairly sure newbies on the cadet scale earning 10/13th salary are not getting anywhere close to that.

[Snapper5]

The actual flying pay is very high , I have easily taken home over a grand a month during the summer , probably the case here

[Enzo999]

Yeah even so and correct me if I am wrong the cadet pay is 38k a year full time, non core pilots get 10/13th of that which is like 30k plus £14 per hour flight pay, say 700 a year if your lucky which totals about 40k! And you have to pay for your type rating these days.

[DH626]

DH626. You will enjoy Monarch. It is a great place to work.

Thank you :) I have a few friends in the company and they all love it.
I definitely can't complain coming in as non type rated and not having to pay for the rating.
It is a 10/13 contract but that suits me having some time off in the winter allowing me to do certain things, very similar to my current company which I love!

[mftx7jrn]

Nice to see an airline striking 'the John Lewis factor': happy employees/customers whilst still making a bit of money at the same time. Long may it last.

[Snapper5]

Cadet pay is for nil experience candidates (monarch actually respects previous experience) ,
Monarch pay for type rating (paid for mine anyway)
Realistic Snr F/O take home is around 45-50k (everything included/Full time) ,
You can decide what you want to do in the airline now if you are in the core group of pilots , 75%,50% . 12/13ths ,full time etc....
most have found that 75% works out best just for lifestyle /pay .
Some live to work others work to live

[Station_Calling]

Realistic Snr F/O take home is around 45-50k (everything included/Full time) ,

To take home £50k you would have to be earning in excess of £73k gross.

I don't believe there are any FO's at MON, regardless or scheme, earning that.

[Monarch Man]

It's now been the best part of a decade since I was a member of the Spotty M family, in many ways I'd have to agree with the posters on their historical view of the place. All that being said, it did have its challenges that is no doubt, as has been eluded too the company was notorious for being tight fisted with respect to hotels and add-ons in the form of breakfasts etc.
My all time favourite memory of the place was just before or just after I left, a certain 330 Captain decided a low pass near the crew hotel in a certain part of Africa was required, on hearing about this incident the Flt Ops dept issued a please explain......a report was duly received..."bird avoidance"
A close second place, the 330 having recently been introduced was being sent to exotic climes, on one occasion to a rather tight ramp ringed with coconut palms. The worst subsequently happened and a wingtip met a grisly fate amongst the coconut trees during a tight turn onto stand....the Captain was from there after known as "Virgil" (thunderbird 2 pilot) for his expertise at parting coconut trees...he also from time to time received mysterious donations of bounty bars in his cubbyhole.
That in my time summed up the place, fun yes, professional always but most importantly a practical no nonsense approach to most airline things, there were one or two exceptions as there are in all airlines but they were usually stomped on pretty firmly.

[Snapper5]

Monarch man , nicely summed up !

Station calling , 50k take home is pretty normal? Get taxed around 2k a month , basic is 58000 , add around 12k for flight pay - 70k then other bits ( voyage etc... ) 73k , 24k off for tax = 49k that's excluding any day off payments which can increase pay hugely .
In October I managed to somehow get 3 in a month roughly an extra 1200 (after tax ) , think it was £5200 that month !
Please don't think I'm trying to willy wave , just saying the facts , all true
You can find the pay on pilot jobs network you will see that it adds up

[Enzo999]

58k is a year 5 scale and full time which nobody is until May. Any new joiner will be on 10/13th of the year 1 pay which is 54! Also flight pay is £14.50 per block hour so to make 12k you would need to do 830 hours a year, which with Monarch's quite winters is impossible (I never did more than 700 and 650 was more typical, although I appreciate this is slightly base dependant), also I don't remember anything like voyage pay defiantly not 3 grands worth. Day of working payments are good money but the company don't like giving them and they are an exception not a rule, I was getting maybe 3 or 4 a year! Also during the summer with 7 days off a month you physically can't work a day off! For anyone joining the company be advised that your take home pay will be considerably lower than the figures quoted above I think you will lucky to get 50k before tax.

[Snapper5]

Obviously a new joiner would be less , I think Monarch pay is fantastic considering the 2 sector days and the relationship with the fellow crew , compared to other airlines it's got to be up in the top

[McNugget]

I'm glad you're pleased. I always heard good things from my friends there. It was saddening to see the uncertainty prevail in recent times, but hopefully that's behind you.

Regarding the money - don't fixate on it. The fact is that with the UK tax system the way it is, disparities between various airline pay grades are actually hugely eroded. When you make 5 grand less than x per year, that's little over a couple of hundred quid a month.

I'd say the biggest financial benefit of the likes of Tom/Mon/TCX are that you can be based in parts of the country where realistically, your costs of living are upwards of a grand a month less. Yes, I appreciate you can commute down to LHR if you're that way inclined, but again, that costs money and disrupts your days off/lifestyle.

That there, is the biggest benefit of the holiday carriers. Leverage that lifestyle to your advantage. Friends that lived up north based in NCL and the like enjoyed marvellous lifestyles. They joined BA in a panic, because their employer hit shaky ground, and every single one that I know regrets it.

[Snapper5]

Mcnugget

I must agree that money can't buy my 12 minute commute to work ! Over a year of work I'm getting a huge amount of time extra in bed , which in this industry is priceless!
I personally work out of BHX , never any holding delays (except in extreme circumstances) and a 10min walk to the crew room

[Groundloop]

Monarch pay for type rating (paid for mine anyway)

Not always. I was speaking to someone recently who has a job offer from Monarch - but he has to find £30k for the type rating.

[spacemonkeys]

What's the plan for crewing the MAX? Retrain guys internally, recruit 73 rated or a mixture of both. Thanks

[Crosswind Limits]

My best guess is those having to pay upfront for type rating are cadets. NTR but experienced guys who joined with me were bonded.

Regarding the 737, training is taking place internally and I think 73 rated folks are being recruited as well.

[JStone]

Hello

Can anyone tell what Sim type Monarch use for their Sim checks?

Thanks

[321abc]

Has anyone had a sim check recently following the interview that could provide some insight on what to expect? 737 rated

[jetstreamrider]

Anyone able to provide up to date take home pay after an average month of flying both high and low season for an FO? Thanks

[Snapper5]

It is pretty varied ,
The month just gone was pretty busy ! Usually in the summer months you will easily be able to get a day off working payment which boosts the salary significantly
High season £4500pm (maybe more at times)
Low season £3800pm

I'm not full time (12/13s) so I'm down roughly £300 pm , but I like having a month off in winter (full time is available) .

Last year after tax I took home around £50k so average earnings around £4100pm
Hope it helps

[Enzo999]

I think we have had this discussion before but forgive me, Snapper and I seem to have worked for completely different companies. Here are the actual facts for anyone joining the company now.

Full time basic £54,500. New joiners will join on 10/13th of that figure till a space opens up on the core fleet of pilots at which point you can choose what proportion you like.

So that's £41,923

Flight pay is £15.22 per block hour. Assume 750 a year (I never did more than 650, don't under estimate how quite winter is).

So that's £11,415

Total package is £53,338 which is £3226 after tax!

Day of payments are very generous £474 but you can't rely on them. Crewing are instructed not to use them unless totally nessacary, if Monarch have crewing levels correct you won't get any, summer months you get minimum days off (7 in 28 so the law does not allow you to sell days off), winters are very slow and something has gone badly wrong if crewing need to use DOW. I used to get maybe 4 or 5 a year.

Snappers figures don't add up me. His basic plus (800 hours and that is very generous) of flight pay will be £62,483. To Net £50k he would need to make £75k which means he has sold 13k worth of days off which is 28!

[Snapper5]

Just saying how it is mate , wish you could post pictures ,
Just looking at my p60 for 2016 got £52910 after £9768 tax reductions 😫😷
Your at BA now aren't you ?

[Enzo999]

Do your figures include a CTC loan repayment?

[Snapper5]

Yes they do which I completely forgot about !
I'm not entirely sure how much that is a month , probably around £350

[Snapper5]

All in all it's a very good package , the pay might not be as grand as some airlines BUT our scheduling agreement and 2 sector days with lovely crew is worth its weight in gold

[Enzo999]

I don't disagree it's a great company, good job and decent package but the figures you are quoting of take home £4500 plus a month makes it the best paid year one F/O job in the U.K.

I would say your loan repayment is more than 350 a month. People are asking what they can expect to take home if they took the job now, your pay is not representative of what new joiners will expect, telling them what you earn is irrelevant, what they want to know is what they will earn and for that they can refer to my figures above. (You are welcome to correct me on the figures but I am 100% sure they are correct).

[Snapper5]

Ctc loan repayment is tax efficient

[Snapper5]

It's not difficult , so without the payment joining with over 1500hrs you will go onto a full time contract because we are very under crewed and have 15 extra airframes arriving in the next few years , you will most definitely be doing nearly 800 hours a year (absolutely maxed in the summer)
Basic is 54500
Flight pay is 15.22ph
54500+12176= £66676(before tax)
Obviously you can sell your soul if you want , you can make good money .
Also 8% pension which I believe is better than easy

[Twiglet1]

if Monarch have crewing levels correct you won't get any

Enzo

Very few airlines get their Crewing levels correct. to cover 3 flights a day you need morning/afternoon and night standby. If you have a pilot willing to sell his day off you only need 1 or 2 at the most.
The likes of Thomson and others have been doing this for years (and i mean years) very successfully. As long as the bean counters get their heads round the benefits e.g. how much does it cost to charter a Titan 767 vv paying a Pilot £500 then everyone's a winner

[Enzo999]

It's not difficult , so without the payment joining with over 1500hrs you will go onto a full time contract because we are very under crewed and have 15 extra airframes arriving in the next few years , you will most definitely be doing nearly 800 hours a year (absolutely maxed in the summer)
Basic is 54500
Flight pay is 15.22ph
54500+12176= £66676(before tax)
Obviously you can sell your soul if you want , you can make good money .
Also 8% pension which I believe is better than easy

So just to be absolutely clear, the whole "Core/Non Core pilot" thing argeed with BALPA has been scrapped? So absolutely 100% all new joiners will be full time contracts from day 1? This might well have changed since I left in which case I might apply for my job back 😉

[Snapper5]

Word on the grape vine is that new joiners as long as they are over 1500hrs (sfo) are permanent , I can ask from the top If you desire

[Flying Torquewrench]

Enzo999

Whilst your intentions are good the information you provide is incorrect on several fronts.

In general the company has always relied on DOWP and this year is no different, if not even more. With the fleet changing from Airbus to Boeing the next few years will be busy for everybody. Though I agree that the winters are quiet, once people go for their B737 type rating the work will have to be done by the remaining pilots. Several pilots have been sitting at 90 hours a month the whole of last winter!

[Twiglet1]

7 in 28 so the law does not allow you to sell days off

Forgot to mention that's not strictly correct now either. EASA has no such thing as a day off so it's only the UK Working Time Directive which is 7 days off in the month

[Jonty]

interesting article in todays times about Monarch

[ratchetring]

Nice to see the CEO managed to receive a inflation busting pay rise of 12 per cent this year ...

[Slamitin]

Still 50% less than the last :mad: who nearly sunk them

[Snapper5]

Losses that we expected due to the retirement of the airbus fleet (good old journalists) ,
Yes a juicy pay rise of 12% is a bit frustrating making it around the £550000 mark

[Akrapovic]

You're attributing all those losses to retirement of the Airbus fleet?

[MonarchOrBust]

Boeing rescues Monarch with new £165m fleet deal (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/boeing-bails-out-monarch-new-165m-fleet-deal-1585454)

Investment (sale and leaseback) by a company of which you are a customer is not a solid platform for the future.

[aileron]

From Travel Weekly,

Monarch reports losses of £290m as it reviews business model
by Amie Keeley Aug 11th 2017, 16:23
Monarch reports losses of £290m as it reviews business model
Monarch Airlines has reported pre-tax losses of £291 million following a spate of terrorist attacks and Britain’s vote to leave the EU slowed demand.

In its latest accounts filed on Companies House, the group also reveals it is “reviewing the current business model” to establish what the “size and shape of the airline should be going forward”.

Financial statement for the year ending October 21 2016, show the company made a pre-tax profit of £12.9 million, compared to £39.3 million the previous year.

Total revenue stood at £558 million, compared with £655 million in 2015.

The report cites a “number of trading headwinds” during the year which have impacted revenue, bookings and load factor, including the continued closure of Sharm El Shiekh airport, terrorist incidents in Turkey and the EU Referendum which resulted in “depressed bookings” and the devaluation of the Pound.

The airline will take delivery of its first Boeing 737 aircraft in March 2018 which it says will “significantly improve the underlying economics of the business” due to being more fuel efficient and requiring less maintenance.

Monarch received a £165 million cash injection from majority shareholders Greybull Capital last October after coming close to failure.

The lifeline convinced the CAA to renew its Air Travel Operators’ Licence (Atol) until this September.

[tubby linton]

The travel weekly article is very badly written . A quick search for the accounts will easily show what has been filed with Companies House. The airline has decided to put all the fleet changeover costs into the accounts , hence the poor figures.

[MonarchOrBust]

The airline will take delivery of its first Boeing 737 aircraft in March 2018 which it says will “significantly improve the underlying economics of the business” due to being more fuel efficient and requiring less maintenance.It's going to take 3-5 years for the new fleet to bed in and before Monarch sees the gains of fuel efficiency and less maintenance. The fleet today is hardly what is considered to be "old".

The airline has decided to put all the fleet changeover costs into the accounts , hence the poor figures.Equally, Grey Bull have termed the sale and leaseback of their new aircraft an "investment" and "cash injection". Compared to last year, all that has happened is Boeing have been guaranteed they won't have surplus 737-Max lying around. The market is saturated with Jet2 and Norwegian now flying to the same destinations that EasyJet stole almost a decade ago now. One of these legacy charters needs to be swallowed up in order to survive. Resistance is a bit futile.

[Snapper5]

I would consider a couple of 15 year old air buses old.
Even emirates faced an 80% drop in profits in 2016-17 ,
Greybull could easily walk away from Monarch , i believe that HNA offered them over 600 million for the business in 2015 but they refused . Supposedly they will carry out the sale and lease back (profit for them) and post brexit sell the to the Chinese

[Enzo999]

Although I believe there is a future for Monarch I think it's foolish to believe it's going to be Easy. And as for a 600 million pound valuation I think that's a bad case of Chinese wishpers. NHA are no fools, they are unlikely to buy something for £600 million that was sold for £1 a few years ago and is loosing money. At best it's only marginally profitable and looking back over the years it's lost billions, I think someone will want the airline but wether anyone offers an amount to keep Greybull happy that's a different question and what happens if no one does? (That's the very question that gave me sleepless nights and the reason I left).

[Snapper5]

I believe that throughout most of Monarchs history it has been loosing money or just turned a marginal profit,
But we still bumble along with decent T&Cs
With backers such as Boeing I believe that I am in a stable place which many would love to see fail .
But I'm sorry boys it looks like we are still here and have an optimistic future with LH on the horizon and a significant expansion on the cards . Some guys that left to go to the supposedly stronger airlines such as BA and Easy have returned with the knowledge that the grass most definitely is not greener !
I would prefer to enjoy my job and have a dark cloud over my head which btw hasn't rained for many many years (ever infact)! Than to slog it out at an airline where everyone believes that because they have 300 aircraft and make over a billion proof they are in a safe place ? I'm sorry chaps but even though your airlines make billions in profit they don't give a monkeys about your T&Cs or your future , you are just a number in a machine

[Fletch]

So what would HNA get for their £600 million?

[CSman]

Quality and Standards

[Enzo999]

Just what every Airline share holder is desparate for.

[Snapper5]

Premium slots , streamlined airline , new fleet on the way , Boeing gold standard engineering , the Monarch brand (50 years old) .....

[Enzo999]

I believe that throughout most of Monarchs history it has been loosing money or just turned a marginal profit,
But we still bumble along with decent T&Cs
With backers such as Boeing I believe that I am in a stable place which many would love to see fail .
But I'm sorry boys it looks like we are still here and have an optimistic future with LH on the horizon and a significant expansion on the cards . Some guys that left to go to the supposedly stronger airlines such as BA and Easy have returned with the knowledge that the grass most definitely is not greener !
I would prefer to enjoy my job and have a dark cloud over my head which btw hasn't rained for many many years (ever infact)! Than to slog it out at an airline where everyone believes that because they have 300 aircraft and make over a billion proof they are in a safe place ? I'm sorry chaps but even though your airlines make billions in profit they don't give a monkeys about your T&Cs or your future , you are just a number in a machine

You either have a very short memory, not been in Monarch long or have extreamly thick rose tinted glasses. Monarch are a good company to work for and it's a nice job. But don't kid yourself they are somehow special or saintly, not that long ago they made several hundred people redundant, slashed pay, forced part year working on people and ditached a pension fund that cost some employees hundreds of thousands possibly millions of pounds.

In the past Monarch we not designed to make money, the business served other purposes, those days are gone and grey bull are in, make no bones about it they are as ruthless as anyone in the business if Monarch fails them they will drop it in seconds.

I admire your confidence in Monarch but I am guessing you don't have a lot of experience of being an unemployed F/O. It has happened to me 3 times and each time I lost a year of my life desparatly searching for that new job. Once out of the system you will quickly see the contempt Airlines hold for DE FOs, they are only interested in cut priced cadets. Whilst it was annoying at the time it was not critical to my life but now I would loose my home and probably my family so living under that dark cloud is not an option.

I in no way want Monarch to fail, I hold them in my mind with great fondness and have many friends still there, but I don't think being total dismissive of their difficulties will be helpful to you or anyone else.

[Snapper5]

Enzo
I understand that it must be horrendous to be unemployed as an FO ,
I have been in Monarch for nearly 6 years and I am in the command process ,
I believe that no flight crew have been made redundant ever in Monarch .
Yes the pay has changed but what airline hasn't ? At least it's still pretty good for the work involved
Yes they screwed some guys pensions but they are getting a cheeky backhand of 10s of thousands a year apparently (all gone very quiet anyway )

I believe you left Monarch for BA SH ? Maybe you should have stayed and got a command ?
I have a young family and would choose Monarch every day over BA

[Crosswind Limits]

Discussing Monarch's fortunes seems to be a hardy perennial and all the usual suspects emerge into the light! :p

I personally think Monarch will be fine, in what guise remains the enduring question!

Snapper5, I think I have worked out who you are! ;)

[JaxofMarlow]

Enzo
I understand that it must be horrendous to be unemployed as an FO ,
I have been in Monarch for nearly 6 years and I am in the command process ,
I believe that no flight crew have been made redundant ever in Monarch .
Yes the pay has changed but what airline hasn't ? At least it's still pretty good for the work involved
Yes they screwed some guys pensions but they are getting a cheeky backhand of 10s of thousands a year apparently (all gone very quiet anyway )

I believe you left Monarch for BA SH ? Maybe you should have stayed and got a command ?
I have a young family and would choose Monarch every day over BA

You have been in 6 years and you can say this.... where have you been? Yes, they have made many flight crew redundant in your time and they bloody nearly made everyone so at one point. Those rose tinted glasses are working so so well.

[Alloy]

Snapper5, being one of those who was screwed over on my pension, salary, carreer and lifestyle and have had no 'backhanders' as you put it, I tend to agree with Enzo999's view.

[factanonverba]

First flight deck redundancies were 1994.

[Pork chop express]

Enzo
I understand that it must be horrendous to be unemployed as an FO ,
I have been in Monarch for nearly 6 years and I am in the command process ,
I believe that no flight crew have been made redundant ever in Monarch .
Yes the pay has changed but what airline hasn't ? At least it's still pretty good for the work involved
Yes they screwed some guys pensions but they are getting a cheeky backhand of 10s of thousands a year apparently (all gone very quiet anyway )

I believe you left Monarch for BA SH ? Maybe you should have stayed and got a command ?
I have a young family and would choose Monarch every day over BA

Snapper5 if you are referring to Oct 2014- Jan 2015 many people jumped ship voluntarily (my self included) and by voluntarily I mean i along with many others were in the 140+ at risk of losing there job and couldn't have got by on the forced part-time. If all those that left to BA / EK / EASY / Air Tanker hadn't there would have without doubt been forced redundancies. Those people that sought alternative employment saved other peoples jobs at Monarch.

[Enzo999]

Enzo
I understand that it must be horrendous to be unemployed as an FO ,
I have been in Monarch for nearly 6 years and I am in the command process ,
I believe that no flight crew have been made redundant ever in Monarch .
Yes the pay has changed but what airline hasn't ? At least it's still pretty good for the work involved
Yes they screwed some guys pensions but they are getting a cheeky backhand of 10s of thousands a year apparently (all gone very quiet anyway )

I believe you left Monarch for BA SH ? Maybe you should have stayed and got a command ?
I have a young family and would choose Monarch every day over BA

You might well be right on some of what you say, I could have possibly been better off staying at Mon and taking command, especially seeing as the command time at BA has rocketed again, but it's a choice you have to make based on risk and reward. I always felt the worst that could happen if I join BA is that I get stuck as an FO for 10 years, but with yearly increments and a decent pension that was not the end of the world, on the other hand the worst case scenario at Monarch was rather more devistating, so I took the safe option. Maybe you have a very different attitude towards risk than me and all being well you will never need to lower yourself to the levels of BA.

On some of your other points Mon have most defiantly made pilots redundant, I still have my letter stating my finishing date and pay off, it's not something I will forget in a hurry seeing as I received it the same day my children were born!

I don't blame anyone for gamely hanging on in there with Mon because whilst it lasts it's a good gig, but you can't just irgnore all the press and facts because the dont suit you. It is very clear that Monarch's finacial health is poor at best and is not really improving. Trading conditions remain bad, their cost base is still high (espically with your salary level), customer confidence is low, the dollar exchange is bad, the Boeings won't save anything the fuel saving will just be off set by the increased lease costs, there seems to be another restructure in the pipe line, they can't get credit, and so it goes on and on. I am not saying they will go bust tomorrow or even at all but it seems fairy reckless to state that everything is hunky dory when it clearly has major challenges ahead.

[Cliff Secord]

I'm not sure of the point of hammering on at someone to convince them that their company is facing uncertainty or xyz company someone left for is sheep dung. All a bit snipey.

If someone wants to believe they're sorted (if they are or if they are not misguided) and in a better position than others let them, if they're happy. Just worry about your own. I can't run my own life let alone worry about others. This game sucks hairy balls. We're all frogs on our own slowly decaying Lilly pads in a pond that's getting a little bit more rank by the year.

[MonarchOrBust]

Monarch can clearly not compete with EasyJet and Ryanair. This much we've known for years. Now however, it must contend with Norwegian and Jet2. Thomson and Thomas Cook have an expanding LH programme whereas Monarch ditched it all. If LH is now back on the table at Monarch, that's good but it's too little too late. Monarch is entering a phase of fleet renewal that is justified by fuel/maintenance savings but everyone outside of Monarch can see it was the fleet renewal that has given Monarch a life line (money created out of thin air). The anticipated savings are not going to be seen for a long time. In summary, Monarch (like others) can't compete with the low co airlines and doesn't have a back up plan either (in terms of LH or winter sun destinations). I remember pushing back at Birmingham in January this year (2017) and seeing no less than 6 Monarch frames parked up with doors closed whilst my airline had 3 departures that morning to winter sun destinations. It looked like the company wasn't even trying to fill those planes.

[KyleRB]

Interesting PPRuNe handle you have! :rolleyes:

Lots of opinions expressed by you and others but not necessarily factual! Only a few people in the know have the facts and you as an outsider to the company will not be one of them!

On social and news media facts are often hard to identify, lots of sound bites and snippets of data simplified and rehashed for quick digestion which often leads to over simplification or worse total misreading of events. As always the devil lives in the detail, which you and the vast majority of others do not have!

For some reason when the opportunity arises, Monarch gets a kicking which on the face of it seems unjustified!

[Snapper5]

http://news.sky.com/story/british-steel-rescuer-greybull-eyes-swoop-on-ailing-alitalia-10988654

Interesting

[JaxofMarlow]

Have they got deeper pockets than Etihad ?

[SAXONBLOKE]

Well said Cliff Secord.

[Snapper5]

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/285633/monarch-chief-ascribes-companys-losses-to-aircraft-write-off

[justjohn737]

Does anyone have any info in regards to the sim assessment and what can be expected? Asking for a 737 rated friend.

[ChimneySweep]

Does the 737-MAX require additional training or will it be covered by an existing B737 type rating?

[Icejock]

News are floating in Norwegian (the country that is) press that Norwegian (the airline) are looking to buy Monarch or parts of. Any of you Monarch guys hear anything about it?

[dirk85]

Two turkeys don’t make an eagle.

[tubby linton]

It is top news in Bolton.Norwegian Air eyes Monarch Airlines deal, sources say (From The Bolton News) (http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/national/15552362.Norwegian_Air_eyes_Monarch_Airlines_deal__sources_s ay/)

[ChimneySweep]

I wonder how that will affect the people who recently applied for the B737 jobs at Monarch. Perhaps by the end of the interview process they'll be flying for Norwegian instead.

[Speedbrakes Up]

Does Norwegian have the cash to purchase Monarch?
Or will they be adding to the debt sheet again....

[RoyHudd]

Statoil and the Norwegian Government have deep pockets.