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QDMQDMQDM
16th Mar 2017, 22:05
Here's looking at you, CASA:

The problem of Bullshit Notams ? International Ops 2017 (http://flightservicebureau.org/the-problem-of-bullshit-notams/)

cogwheel
16th Mar 2017, 23:31
Can only agree. It has been raised at the RAPACs, but no progress to date.

Popgun
17th Mar 2017, 02:56
Here here!

PG

ruprecht
17th Mar 2017, 03:50
If I'm 5nm from the ARP at 150' AGL, then I have more things to worry about than a crane without a red light...

ruprecht

Mr Approach
17th Mar 2017, 09:46
No CAA/ANSP/Airport dare not put everything they can in a NOTAM. If there is an incident the legal bottom feeders will tear the place apart looking for any loophole they can use to blame someone - anyone - except their client.

It's all about our legal systems - you try using the defence "Oh Milud, I didn't think it was essential information"

Falling Leaf
18th Mar 2017, 00:30
It's all about our legal systems - you try using the defence "Oh Milud, I didn't think it was essential information"

So our NOTAM's are unworkable for the same reasons our regulations are unreadable? And yet for the most pedantic and box ticking nation on the planet, we still have this strange risk appetite where we are happy for high capacity RPT aircraft to fight it out with lighties in a CTAF. Very strange...

got_wheel
18th Mar 2017, 02:52
If I'm 5nm from the ARP at 150' AGL, then I have more things to worry about than a crane without a red light...

ruprecht

Ass-covering gone mad
Really... a tree... :ugh:

OBST TREE 58FT AMSL
PSN 386M FM THR RWY 25 AND 183M LEFT OF RWY 25 CL
BRG 047 MAG 0.91NM FM ARP
FROM 01 310536 TO 03 300500 EST

Vag277
18th Mar 2017, 05:46
The issue is the requirement to report and in many cases mark "obstacles" that penetrate the Obstacle Limitation Surfaces around the aerodrome. See MOS Part 139 and ICAO Annex 14. This is international practice.

Biggles_in_Oz
18th Mar 2017, 06:15
Typical lazy pilots., :E: couldn't be bothered to do a 3D plot of 52 cranes every time they get a YSSY location briefing.
It's only 1 NOTAM out of 37 (or 133 if you include the Head Office crud)


To be slightly fair, YSSY does have helicopters and there are 3 cranes between 620' and 830' AGL.

david1300
18th Mar 2017, 06:45
Here here!

PG

Hear hear, actually :ok:

Pastor of Muppets
18th Mar 2017, 09:54
My personal favourite is the "trigger notam" cross-referencing to yet another unfindable / unreadable pile of nonsense.
Just tell us what matters to an "Airman"; today and leave the grand plan, 12 month projection crap out of NOTAMS.

Andy_G
18th Mar 2017, 10:18
All of this so true, I imagine a world of technology and wonder (ozrunways/avplan/anything but airservices/casa))where we can quickly read a Notam and weather briefing without having to nut it out and do a slow-ass flight plan every time. 2017 and we still cant embrace all the tech.

ShyTorque
18th Mar 2017, 11:51
My personal favourite is the "trigger notam" cross-referencing to yet another unfindable / unreadable pile of nonsense.
Just tell us what matters to an "Airman"; today and leave the grand plan, 12 month projection crap out of NOTAMS.

I totally agree. The last thing any crew is going to be able to do when checking NOTAMs before departure is to magic up a way to access cross-referenced documents in various other publications. Especially when the departure point is not anywhere near base ops, or even any other operations centre.

Angle of Attack
19th Mar 2017, 06:25
So who is going to go and see the Pastor at the Bulla Uniting church in Melbourne and tell him to replace the damn obstacle light on his spire?! It's been NOTAMED for at least 7 years....

IsDon
19th Mar 2017, 06:32
So who is going to go and see the Pastor at the Bulla Uniting church in Melbourne and tell him to replace the damn obstacle light on his spire?! It's been NOTAMED for at least 7 years....

And guess what, in all of that time not one aircraft has actually run into the thing.

Call it devine intervention maybe. More likely it never needed a light on it in the first place, and therefore never needed a NOTAM to tell us the bloody thing isn't working.

t_cas
19th Mar 2017, 08:18
And guess what, in all of that time not one aircraft has actually run into the thing.

Call it devine intervention maybe. More likely it never needed a light on it in the first place, and therefore never needed a NOTAM to tell us the bloody thing isn't working.

And also highlights a latent failure in ANY of the systems, to mandate the light be repaired and therefore removing the NOTAM.
I'll bet it has something to do with a dispute of a "red light" on a church.....
What ever the light is perceived to represent, the church has possibly upheld its right to odject for the last seven years.
7. Interesting number that.

Derfred
19th Mar 2017, 15:44
If the Three Wise Men had become distracted by a Red Light while attempting to follow the Star So Bright, imagine the mess we would be in today!

Or maybe the pastor is a Sting fan... "You don't need to put on the red light..."

clark y
19th Mar 2017, 20:29
The trees are bigger around that church.
I'm surprised there is no notam about the ice-cream/coffee van that sits in the car park to the north of runway 16 in YMML. It comes in handy as " features readily identifiable with the runway end" (on the centreline and to the left of the red light that you won't see on the church).

le Pingouin
20th Mar 2017, 11:00
I think the church was auctioned off about 6 years ago....

underfire
21st Mar 2017, 02:36
When looking at cranes or other obstructions, we only issued a NOTAM if there was a conflict, nothing advisory such as noted in the posts above.
(ie, if it does not have a light, you do not NOTAM the procedure, you remove the crane until compliant, that usually gets their attention) If the crane is in the way, it is in the way, light or not.

The NOTAM includes the corrective action, mostly either shutting down the procedure for a timeframe, or modifying the DA. Typically, we did not include the reason, just the outcome.

Soup Nazi
25th Mar 2017, 23:01
We actually pay people to write that crap. Perhaps ASA could look there for savings.

SN

Roller Merlin
7th Apr 2017, 06:48
The trees are bigger around that church.
I'm surprised there is no notam about the ice-cream/coffee van that sits in the car park to the north of runway 16 in YMML. It comes in handy as " features readily identifiable with the runway end" (on the centreline and to the left of the red light that you won't see on the church).

Both the trees and the street lights along the road in front of the church are taller than the church spire!