What's the minimum separation gap ?

[yurski]

What's the minimum separation gap between two aircrafts one is taking off another one is landing from behind ( on the same runway) In this video looks like they are close to each other or this is normal procedure ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ahd9A_0Xxk

[DaveReidUK]

I suppose entitling your video "ATC doing their job" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. :O

There are a few controllers who frequent this forum, I'm sure one will be along shortly to give you a definitive answer.

In the meantime, if you click on "Show More" on the video page, you will see the statement "According to an air traffic control planes can use the same runway if the departing plane is airborne before the arriving plane touches down", though I suspect the correct answer is more about when an approaching aircraft can be given a landing clearance.

[yurski]

Thank you DaveReidUK. I would wait for a controller response

[Pistonprop]

See my answer in your duplicate post!

[Una Due Tfc]

As soon as the preceding departure aircraft's wheels leave the runway, the landing aircraft will be cleared to land (in EASA land anyway, the Americans do things differently).

[yurski]

Pistonprop I did not make a duplicate post ! Where I can find your answer ?

[yurski]

So ! I still did not get a clear answer
What's the minimum separation gap / safe distance between two aircrafts ?

[Una Due Tfc]

There isn't one. It varies from airfield to airfield but you won't clear the departure to line up unless the arrival is a set distance from touchdown, eg 2 miles, then only if the departure advises he is ready for an immediate. There is no written minimum separation distance between arrival and departure. Separation is only lost if arrival and departure are on the runway at the same time or if a go around is mis managed

Minimum safe distance between airborne aircraft varies depending on airspace. 3nm in TMA, 5nm enroute, 10 mins in procedural for example...

[chevvron]

What's the minimum separation gap between two aircrafts one is taking off another one is landing from behind ( on the same runway) In this video looks like they are close to each other or this is normal procedure ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ahd9A_0Xxk
Obviously was not Heathrow. The landing aircraft appears to be Ryanair who will avoid a go-around if at all possible.
As far as I can see it's good runway utilisation.

[10 DME ARC]

Not that close really, most airports I worked in UK operate that the landing aircraft not allowed to cross the start of runway(tarmac) before departed airborne. There are places that have a procedure of 'land after departing' where by landing aircraft can even be on same runway as long as pilot happy to provide visual separation. Radar separation is not used landing/departing as you work in a visual environment in VCR, this changes in low vis operations and then becomes dependant upon separation needed to clear Localiser/glide path sensitive area's.

[Talkdownman]

In this video looks like they are close to each other or this is normal procedure ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ahd9A_0Xxk

Nothing much at all to see here....

Ops normal for single runway operation, thanks to the skill and expertise of UK ATCOs. 20 seconds lost there, probably even time for a quick crosser :E

[yurski]

Thank you all for your answers !

[terrain safe]

Loadsaroom!

Seriously absolutely no problem and as Talkdownman says should have got the tug across as well.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Ryanair who will avoid a go-around if at all possible.

What a load of cobblers (and that's from a confirmed Ryanair disliker)

[Talkdownman]

Loadsaroom!

Seriously absolutely no problem and as Talkdownman says should have got the tug across as well.
Some people have just never seen Heathrow on 23 in a very stiff south-westerly...

[terrain safe]

True. Mind you I have and it's entertaining timing the departure rolls on 27R against the inbounds. Mind you the EIN 737 captain was enjoying his visual...

[Talkdownman]

Perhaps he was on a Middle Marker bet...

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

If you can get a fag paper between them they're not close enough!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<it's entertaining timing the departure rolls on 27R >>

Do you not mean 09R against landers on 05?

[chevvron]

Nothing much at all to see here....

Ops normal for single runway operation, thanks to the skill and expertise of UK ATCOs. 20 seconds lost there, probably even time for a quick crosser :E

Coming back to Gatwick on a fam flight once in a 737, we were a 4 miles on 08 and they still had time to launch 2 before we got landing clearance.
Are they allowed to do that nowadays with the new ANSP?

[KelvinD]

Quite often at Luton you can see a flight at the distant end of Rwy26 with an inbound aircraft visible on the approach. It all works out generally well but, when I was there recently a departing Wizz Air flight had been cleared to go but didn't move immediately. Meanwhile a Ryanair flight was getting closer and closer. Eventually, it was so close I began to wonder what would happen now. As I was thinking that, it all happened at once. The Ryanair flight changed his mind and began a missed appraoch. At the time, Planefinder was showing this one at 350ft. As he began the procedure, he was directly above the Wizz Air flight which decided it was time to go so there were 2 aircraft travelling in the same direction. 1 on the ground giving it max revs and another directly above him a couple of hundred ft above. Within a couple of seconds, the Wizz Air flight made a heck of a noise with the noisiest brakes I have ever heard. The Wiazz Air then trundled sedately to the 2nd junction, turned off and set off along the taxiway to join the back of the queue. Almost nonchalant! I wasn't listening to the radio but I bet there some stern words!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I've seen that with two 747s. The one going-around was given a heading to take it away from the track of the outbound which continued on its way. Job done.

[chevvron]

We did it at Farnborough with 2 Antonov 124s!! The one lined up was given takeoff clearance as the landing one turned downwind and still he hadn't rolled when the landing one, which did a 7 mile final, was at 2nm!
After the airshow that year, the controller involved was posted to Heathrow to do Thames Radar (MB)

[RAT 5]

I've seen that with two 747s. The one going-around was given a heading to take it away from the track of the outbound which continued on its way. Job done.

I always wonder at the routing of GA's. e.g. STN RW22. The GA is towards BKY at 3000'. The Buzzard/CPT SID is towards BKY at 4000'. It has the potential of 2 a/c flying the same routing, with the GA a/c perhaps going faster than the takeoff a/c, and the lower a/c climbing through the GA. It then requires the Tower controller to separate them without necessarily being visual and not necessarily having the 'big picture' about all a/c in that part of the sky. And then Tower radio goes dead. It would not be a good day.
I just wonder why this potential conflict is designed into the procedure; and it's not only at STN.

[treadigraph]

Around 1978 I saw an Aztec line up and go on 28R at Heathrow with a Pan Am 747 practically over the fence.

The 747 went round, moving to the left of the runway (ie closer to the central area), presumably so the First Officer could see where the Aztec was. The Aztec stayed low, from the Queens Building Roof I didn't see it much after it lifted off.

Didn't have an airband radio in those days so I've no idea how the conversation between the three parties went; I imagine it may have been a little tense!