Toughest Duties

[73qanda]

With the NZCAA in the process of rewriting the duty rules I have become interested in what other NZ and Aus pilots are doing duty wise.
What's your toughest duty?
Mine,
Sign on 7pm
2 crew
2 sectors
Land at 5am

Some pilots I fly with find this duty no problem, horses for courses I guess.

[Bleve]

Very similar:
Sign on 2120
Two crew
Three sectors
Sign off 0800

[AerocatS2A]

Sign on at 1900
2 crew
4 sectors
Supposed to sign off at 0510 but invariably about 30 minutes late.

[PoppaJo]

Jetstar had a MEL-ADL-PER-ADL-MEL duty. Not sure if it's still done but it was a 6am signon and hated by all.

Anything that involves signing on before sunrise and signing off after Sunset for me.

[Ollie Onion]

0530 sign on:

AKL - MEL
MEL - ZQN
ZQN - AKL

Melbourne turn was 35 mins, Queenstown turn was 45 mins but you needed to leave the acft and pass through customs, immigration and back through security. Entire fostered duty was 25 minutes inside max FDP but you would normally end up extending. Arrive back I. AKL just in time for evening peak hour traffic. They used to roster them back to back.

[gtseraf]

These monster night duties are also scheduled elsewhere in the world. What I can't understand is when crew say the duty was scheduled within max duty (just) but the crew regularly extended to finish the duty. This beggars belief. If the duties are THAT bad (and they are!) AND the crew have to regularly extend, there is a simple solution. Refuse to extend, get off mid duty and require min rest then continue. If most crew applied this fix, those duties would have to be changed.

many issues will not be solved until pilots stop bitching/boasting about them on Pprune and actually take some action about them

[AerocatS2A]

Reality is that many crews will extend if it means going home to their own bed as opposed to spending a night in a hotel. It's not right, but it happens.

[Global Aviator]

Also the mitigating factor is duty before the killer red eyes. Blocks of red eyes or mixed?

Then there is controlled rest, ok it's in the manual, a requirement to file a report when you use it. Why do so many not want to file a report?

Difference with our industry to regular shift workers is the constant mix of duties. Unless your a night freighter!

FRMS ������!

[greybeard]

Wimps all of you.

PER, Morawa, Yalgoo, Magnet, Cue, MKR, Wiluna, Sandstone, Magnet, Yalgoo, Morawa, Perth.

had to be done in Summer for first and last light at Morawa.

3 Crew, DC-3, F/O did the books, sold tickets, balanced the mail bags and depending on the Captains got some LH seat time for some fun.

Then in a later life SIN DAC SIN at night with a brand new S/O under training with the safety F/O checked out the day before.

Suck it up

:ok:

[Stationair8]

No doubt greybeard, you had to fly in bare feet, because you couldn't afford shoes. On you days off you had to come in and wash the aeroplane then go and wash the chief pilots car?

I found one of the worst fatigue generators was the split shifts over a five day week. The boss said it was public service job, so suck it up princess we're his words! Funny about a 0600 sign on, 1000 sign off , 6 hour break, 1600 sign on and then a 2000 sign off, by Friday you were knackered!

[framer]

Is the requirement to report controlled rest a company requirement or the regulator?

[waren9]

that mel per adl mel one was tough. it used to be a triangle, one direction or the other. didnt know they made it 4 sectors.

personally found the bkk-mel back of the clock tough. 2 crew with 1 capt in particular sleeping most of it :* in summer the sun would be up by about bhi burning your retinas out

yeah yeah, rod for my own back etc i learnt from that

[Pinky the pilot]

Stationair; May I suggest that greybeard was, whilst probably saying truthfully how it was way back then was also attempting to wind you up a bit!:= And I'd say he succeeded!:D

If you want an example of Flight and Duty times totally ignored, let alone observed in the abeyance thereof, I would refer you to the things that any GA Pilot in Papua New Guinea back in the 80's and 90's had to endure, merely to ensure that the Company he worked for continued to operate....let alone keep his job!:eek::ooh::mad:

For instance; Twice a week I signed on at 0-Dark Hundred at our Port Moresby base with a take off at first light on what was termed 'The Jungles Run' and the day generally finished somewhere near Last light returning from the other side of the Country (Wewak, Madang, or wherever) knowing that you had to be back at the Office around 7am the following day.

None of us complained! We all knew that we were breaking some rules but we all also knew that if we didn't, the Company would not survive!:= The work was there and we had to do it.:ooh:

And quite frankly; I enjoyed it!!:ok::ok: I'd go back to it in a flash if I were given the opportunity. Sadly, it 'aint gonna happen!!!:{:{

[Lookleft]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story ( I think it now has a name!)

The Jetstar sector was MEL-ADL-PER-ADL and the flight crew and CM got off and overnighted in ADL. It was all very civilized and a pleasant duty. Unfortunately with most things LCC if the crew enjoy a pairing it will be changed or dropped altogether.:ugh:

[gtseraf]

the temptation to get to one's own bed by extending may very well lead to a permanent resting place 6 foot under!

[framer]

New thing that gets me is changing from earlies to lates with one day off in between , doing a few lates and then one day off before going into earlies again. Everyone is different but it's the inability to fall into a routine that slowly stuffs me.

[V-Jet]

What peeves me here is that even if a rare journo that actually might interpret your posts correctly - and they quite possibly can't conceive it's true because it would be so far outside their experiences as to not register. But even then doing it once is easy. There is no way they would understand what it means to do these sectors month after month and year after year.

All this from companies that have the gall to publicly speak of 'maintaining a great work/life balance'.

[gtseraf]

and "Safety is our priority!"

[Mangi Fokker]

5:30am bus Kimbe
6:30am sign on Hoskins (DHC6)
7am departure Hoskins- Uvol
Uvol - Jacquinot Bay
Jacquinot Bay - Gonalie
Gonalie - Manguna
Manguna - Cape Orford
Cape Orford -Tol
Tol - Tokua
Tokua - Lihir (Buka)
Lihir (Buka) - Tokua
Tokua - Tol
Tol - Cape Orford
Cape Orford - Manguna
Manguna - Gonalie
Gonalie- Jacquinot Bay
Jacquinot Bay - Uvol
Uvol - Hoskins
6pm sign off
7pm bus drops you home in Kimbe
11.5 hours duty, 12 hours rest
Sign on again 0630 next day. Do it all again.
West New Britain 1990s post eruption.

[LeadSled]

Geeez!!!, some of you blokes don't know you are alive.

In the "good old days" in the UK, the stick hour limit was 125 hours per month, then the company sent you to the company doctor, who pronounced you not suffering fatigue, and sent you back to work.

From memory (can somebody else remember) the "month" was 28 days, so some (at the whim of Scheduling) could and did rack up 1500-1600 hours per year - stick time, not duty time.

In those days, among the scrag-end non-scheds, the loss rate was pretty impressive, but there were plenty of war surplus aeroplane and crews, and plenty more passengers where the last lot came from --- just had to make the bucket and spade brigade fares cheap enough.

Tootle pip!!

[greybeard]

Got someone going.

Different era, lots more fun, knew most of the Pax we carried by first names and they us.

A 5 channel VHF, tuneable HF receiver, no FSU except MKR, engine starts were an acquired art, 2 Gal oil jugs carried up to the top of the cowell via the wing, over wing refuelling in ALL weathers.

IFR plan, VFR procedures, an indifferent auto-pilot, no aircon, box lunch put on in Perth.

NDB at Magnet and MKR with 2 NDBs at Perth with an ILS no VOR anywhere.

Shoes were required as the rudder pedals could be quite warm::)

No magenta line, wiss wheel calculations.

An employer who actually cared, Horrie Miller always called me by my name so he remembered or asked when we arrived so he could do this.

All on less than $3500 a year, pure gold those days, regrettably no more.

:ok::ok:

[LeadSled]

2 NDBs at PerthOne at the old flying boat base on the river (PH 400??)

an indifferent auto-pilot,An autopilot, what luuuxxxxury!!! That's what the co-pilot (before they became known as First Officer) was for, to fly the aeroplane ---- and that ILS thingy, that was strictly "secret Captain's business".

At least we did have 90 channel Murphy VHF comms ---- the one with the two dirty great selector wheels, to select the numbers either side of the "dayceeemal" ---- to select the actual crystals, none of this frequency synthesis.

The A in ADF was a bit of a fiction, but never mind, the loop ( BRT - Big Round Thing) was in the cockpit roof, withing a short reach of either seat, not like the crank handle on the Bendix ADF box's from the land of the septics.

Tootle pip!!

PS: I have a Bendix "A"DF receiver out back, the box weight is just over 70 pounds, about, about 30 kgs in new money ---- a current equivalent is lighter than just the Bendix cockpit controller.

[ruprecht]

Any duty towards the end of the month, as the A380 movies haven't been updated yet...

:E

[Pinky the pilot]

What Mangi Fokker said!:ok:

Tokua - Lihir (Buka)

Buka? You got to Buka.... to perve on the Meris??:}:D:E

Half ya flamin' luck Mate!!:ok::D

[Callicutt Kid]

Mangi Fokker!

You forgot the "quick " Kandrian shuttle just to top the day off.

If was tough working in the bush but I find 4 sectors in a shiny jet swapping from lates to earlies with a red eye thrown in more knackering now��.

The Kid

[maggot]

Daylight in your own timezone. Heh.

[DeltaT]

Sign on 0600
Single crew
2-8 sectors
Sign off 1900

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Looking busy on a day off.

[mustafagander]

Back in the GODs when Moby Dick was a sardine, we used to have a truly delightful night ex LHR on the B747 Classic. We did LHR-AMS-VIE-BAH departing around 1900 ex LHR every Thursday. Doesn't sound too bad but try 2 Cat II approaches and a bit of circadian disrhythmia in winter and 2 short sectors. Now it's tough, very tough. Luckily we were young and silly. Also the Swechat brewery supplied excellent bevvies through our ops people in VIE, life had its compensations. Seniority worked as it should, the most junior FEO, me, did lots of them.

[FL235]

First day working for Laurie crowley in Lae, 30 mins in a 205 with the chief pilot to prove I could fly it, then Lae - Telefolmin -Yellow R. - Green R. - Wewak -Lae. Long haul in a 205.

and then there was the day finding a bush strip by starlight..

[FlyingChipmunk]

Mate,
I thought my
SIN - MLE - SIN ETOPS
13 hr duty from 6pm - 7am was tough. :D




5:30am bus Kimbe
6:30am sign on Hoskins (DHC6)
7am departure Hoskins- Uvol
Uvol - Jacquinot Bay
Jacquinot Bay - Gonalie
Gonalie - Manguna
Manguna - Cape Orford
Cape Orford -Tol
Tol - Tokua
Tokua - Lihir (Buka)
Lihir (Buka) - Tokua
Tokua - Tol
Tol - Cape Orford
Cape Orford - Manguna
Manguna - Gonalie
Gonalie- Jacquinot Bay
Jacquinot Bay - Uvol
Uvol - Hoskins
6pm sign off
7pm bus drops you home in Kimbe
11.5 hours duty, 12 hours rest
Sign on again 0630 next day. Do it all again.
West New Britain 1990s post eruption.

[greybeard]

What, no more speed boat rides in the dark to and from Bandos.

Crap duty hours, not good at all.

;)

[Mangi Fokker]

Those 16 sector days were single pilot, but with the right engine running and an efficient male (due heavy lifting) Flight Attendant, it was possible to have some very quick turn arounds. Only refueling was Tokua and Hoskins. Also Airlink and Islands Aviation competed on the service, so we were generally racing each other. Big days though, all the pilots were under 35, that undoubtedly helped.

[splat72]

Great days flying back then, had a ball with Islands Nationar my girlfriend at the time used to occupy the right seat of the Otter sorting out the tickets and fares.

[limitedrisk]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story ( I think it now has a name!)

The Jetstar sector was MEL-ADL-PER-ADL and the flight crew and CM got off and overnighted in ADL. It was all very civilized and a pleasant duty. Unfortunately with most things LCC if the crew enjoy a pairing it will be changed or dropped altogether.:ugh:
You haven't been round long enough. It used to go all the way back to MEL with the whole crew....

[troppo]

Great days flying back then, had a ball with Islands Nationar my girlfriend at the time used to occupy the right seat of the Otter sorting out the tickets and fares.

Hmmm....I don't recall too many male FAs at INA, in fact some of the tidiest female FAs worked there

[bazza stub]

Toughest duty? I don't think any duty in isolation is particularly fatiguing or tough. By far the worst of the worst is the constant grind of max duty, lots of short sectors, crappy forecasts, crappy ATC, crappy efficiency policies, early starts after RDOs with late finishes before. Then there's the passive aggressive sh!t from management when you decide not to extend or go fatigued.

It's the chronic nature of shabby rostering and predatory managers that are creating this fatigue (and morale) bubble. When it busrts is anyone's guess, but when it does, it's going to be fugly. CASA?? What are you doing?

[Mail-man]

The NE Mail out of Alice Springs. 12 hours dead reckoning in a 210 at 40 degrees+. 17 or more stops, my memory fails me now.

I'll agree long BOC's can be tedious and tiring, but the above mentioned was the most physically and mentally draining by the end of a day.

Wouldn't trade those ga days for anything now : )

[haughtney1]

As has been said, most duties if you are adequately rested..you can cope with.

How about this 2 weeks for fatiguing

Day 1
9.30am DXB-CMB-SIN..11pm at the Hotac 7pm Body clock
Day 2
10.15pm local sign on SIN-CMB-SIN at home 5am
Day 3 Rest day
Day 4
11.20pm DXB-JNB 8.30am at the Hotac 6.30am Body clock
Day 5
7.30am local sign on JNB-DXB at home 9.45pm
Day 6
2.25pm DXB-KWI-DXB at home 10.50pm
Day 7
DAY OFF
Day 8
3.00am DXB-MAN 7.45am at Hotac 10.45am Body clock
Day 9
7.15am local sign on MAN-DXB at home 8pm
Day 10
7.45pm DXB-RUH-DXB at home 00.15am (into day 11)
Day 11
REST DAY
Day 12
3.15am DXB-COK-DXB at home at 3.30pm
Day 13
2.00pm DXB-DEL-DXB at home 11.45
Day 14
Day off


At the end of that little lot, alternating between day and night, east west etc...I could barely count to 10.

[framer]

I'm surprised you could stand!

[swh]

Getting married and having it last 10 years in this industry

[Blitzkrieger]

Getting married and having it last 10 years in this industry

Bingo! I can name several that have gone by the wayside. Many quite recently 😔.

[Slippery_Pete]

At the end of that little lot, alternating between day and night, east west etc...I could barely count to 1

And did you report fatigued?

[haughtney1]

And did you report fatigued?

No, I managed to contract a chest infection.....:hmm:

[Slippery_Pete]

And did you report fatigued?

No

Well then they'll roster it again next month. Simples.

[haughtney1]

Don't worry Pete, there's enough ex Virgin ATR drivers here now...keen to do it.