KISS

[mahogany bob]

KISS

I am thinking that sometimes the basic principles of common sense are very often underestimated. Very intelligent people seem to be capable of very unintelligent decisions eg :

1. Charge of the Light Brigade- horses against guns!!

2. WW1 - infantry against machine guns !!

3. Space travel - billions spent - achievement ???

4. Vietnam - why fight with one arm tied??

5. Typhoon - a great fighter ac but a bomber??

6. Aircraft carriers -too expensive and too vulnerable!

7. MOD - too big !

8. Gulf war 2 - no end game /wrong enemy ??

9. Arab spring ???

10. BREXIT - don't procrastinate just go for it!

11. Russia - talk !

12. United Nations - waste of time ??

13. House of Lords - too big !!

14. Corbyn - disaster!

15. Political correctness - gone far too far !!

16. Health Service - too big !

17. Rich to poor pay gap - way too big !

18 . RAF - top-heavy !

19. Annual budgets - stupid !!

20. Wind turbines ??

Could go on but would welcome comment from the intelligentsia !






Sent from my iPad

[Biggus]

Bad day at the office?

[reds & greens]

And breathe...
Can't fault No18 though.

[Tay Cough]

Twenty interesting thoughts. One very big assumption...

Very intelligent people...

[Pontius Navigator]

There are legions of counter arguments. Take NHS, I have just had major surgery but in the 5 weeks was treated or attended by, at a guess, 6 doctors and over 30 nurses and assistants with others unseen such as pathology, histology, etc. The whole was seamlessly integrated and I would not have wanted fewer.

The number of clinical staff in different departments need non clinical support with receptionists in each department, ward managers, bed managers, catering, logistics etc etc.

I would rather too many than LEAN or JIT.

[Ken Scott]

3. Space travel - billions spent - achievement ???

If you're not narrowing it to manned, GPS satellites for example, those would seem to have some impact on modern life.

The Apollo program led to the development of microprocessors & there is also a theory that it resulted in the end of the Cold War - America's success in the race to the Moon led the Soviets to believe that they were technologically capable of almost anything so when Reagan began the Star Wars program they believed it would also succeed and realised they couldn't compete, financially or technologically.

The pictures of the Earth brought back from the first missions to the Moon arguably led to the nascent conservation movement as it was the first time Man saw our planet for what it was, a tiny oasis in space.

The entire cost of Apollo from 1961 - 1972 was less than one year of spending on the Vietnam war (at its peak), every dollar spent on advanced science & engineering here on Earth, it wasn't just money packed into rockets & blasted off into space. The spinoffs from this technology has helped to transform modern life.

The USA's Skylab project conducted science & Earth observation from low orbit, just one deposit of copper it discovered was valued at more than the entire program.

I could go on!!

I agree with the rest of your list though.

[esscee]

Placing a camera next to a A330 Voyager joystick springs to mind!

[mahogany bob]

Ken - a good defence?.
PN - congrats on your NHS experience - hope that you are having a full and speedy recovery. However the basic facts remain that everyone is living longer and new drugs are so expensive that funding in its present format just won't work! Root reform is needed ASAP - it is time to bite the bullet and get on with it! In any enormous operation millions seem to disappear down the cracks!

a few more!

21. The EU! Why not just EFTA?

22. The EURO - doesn't work!

23. Immigration - without proper control.

24 RU - offside laws!

25. Golf - obscure rules / EGU handicapping system!

26. Soccer - why no video replay?

27. Formula One - boring!

Over - - -

[Red Line Entry]

Alternatively...perhaps many (maybe all) of the issues you raise are in reality complex and difficult challenges in which those involved hold a vast range of different views and opinions depending on how their lives and futures are affected.

Or maybe the world has just been waiting for all these issues to be raised on an internet bulletin board that can solve them instantly. Was Jet Blast full?

[Pontius Navigator]

MB, TY, apart from drugs it is more costly procedures. Mrs PN is a retired nurse and was surprised at the amount of personal or disposable equipment used. Each patient had a personal blood pressure cuff. Thermometers had one use only disposable tips. Even pills were supplied in a small once only cup. Everything that could be once only use was so, apart from water beakers and jugs. Item cost will have been in pence but grossed up, add in purchasing staff and supply chain and costs will mount. That is the price regarding cross infection control.

I agree on the aspect regarding aging population.

[darkroomsource]

16. Health Service - too big !

really?
you won't think so if it's your life on the line, or that of your son or daughter.

[sandiego89]

KISS

6. Aircraft carriers -too expensive and too vulnerable!

12. United Nations - waste of time ??



When was the last time an aircraft carrier was damaged in battle? 1945? Granted we have not had a major blue water peer conflict, but carriers seem to have come in handy over the last 75 years in conflict large and small. As for expensive, it is only too expensive if you can't afford it. A Ferrari is to expensive for me, but maybe not the next guy.


UN. Perhaps more talk than action, but would prefer that there is no international body? I think it is good to have a forum.

[Wander00]

aah, but infection control is key to patient survival. Interestingly, having been in both UK and French hospitals, give me the latter for cleanliness and infection control, but things may have improved in UK since last visit

[gr4techie]

5. Typhoon - a great fighter ac but a bomber??

Yes it is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-against-daesh

[JAVELINBOY]

Money well spent on space programme after all we got non stick frying pans out of it. Just think how many Brillo pads we would have got through without the invention.

[mahogany bob]

Yes it is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-air-strikes-against-daesh

Fantastic work - congrats to all involved - a great shame that more of this info doesn't appear regularly in the national press!

[pasta]

Everything that could be once only use was so, apart from water beakers and jugs. Item cost will have been in pence but grossed up, add in purchasing staff and supply chain and costs will mount.
It could be that this works out cheaper than paying people to collect all the different items, and then sterilise them to the required level.

I don't have the source handy, but I read that every dollar spent on the Apollo program resulted in a net benefit to the US economy of 7 dollars. It's not like the money disappears; it buys you skilled jobs, expertise, infrastructure, education, exportable technology etc, and keeps circulating round the economy; all those skilled workers are spending their increased earnings on goods, services etc, which pays more people's wages and so on. The question isn't whether or not you should spend the money, but whether you'll get even better returns by spending it on something else.

[Pontius Navigator]

Pasta, that of course is possible, but to take two, BP cuffs and thermometers were used patient to patient with the latter simply dipped in a cleaner. If you are of an age you may remember the glass mercury thermometer in a slim metal case. Long thin bulb under the tongue or short bulb at the other end and always a danger of a mouth full of mercury and broken glass.

[ACW418]

As someone who was diagnosed with aggressive cancer last June you would have great difficulty in persuading me there is anything wrong with the NHS. Fantastic service. Every ward I was on was cleaned extremely well every day.

Chemotherapy is awful but it seems to work.

ACW

[Ken Scott]

Money well spent on space programme after all we got non stick frying pans out of it. Just think how many Brillo pads we would have got through without the invention.

Actually teflon was invented in the 1950s & whilst used by NASA for rocket nose cones etc it was not invented by them. But Pasta is correct, the benefits of Apollo far outweighed the costs, even if you ignore the sheer achievement of putting men on the Moon.

[Roadster280]

OK, I'll play.

1. Charge of the Light Brigade- horses against guns!!
Agreed, but they were a tad short on armour or air support.

2. WW1 - infantry against machine guns !!
Agreed, but they were a tad short on armour or air support (though not as short as Crimea).

3. Space travel - billions spent - achievement ???
As Ken says, massive, tangible and intangible returns. Every cent spent on the Apollo program amounted to an investment in technology.

4. Vietnam - why fight with one arm tied??
Because nuking peasants is not "on".

5. Typhoon - a great fighter ac but a bomber??
Indeed. With 232 of them ordered at the outset, why does the GR4 remain in service some 14 years later?

6. Aircraft carriers -too expensive and too vulnerable!
Without aircraft carriers, the Falkland Islanders would be speaking Spanish. Neither were sunk, so not that vulnerable.

7. MOD - too big !
Ambiguous. I would suggest that all three services, and MOD CS wish they were bigger.

8. Gulf war 2 - no end game /wrong enemy ??
Depends on your POV. If your intent is to demonstrate political and military power and remove local dictator, then it was a win. If your intent was to somehow "fix" the Middle East, it was a serious disaster

9. Arab spring ???
Who was making the intelligent decisions?

10. BREXIT - don't procrastinate just go for it!
Not my area, sorry. It was however a wake-up call for all, whether pro or anti-Brexit.

11. Russia - talk !
Better than not talking

12. United Nations - waste of time ??
Well, it does provide legitimacy for operations against international pariahs.

13. House of Lords - too big !!
Why too big?

14. Corbyn - disaster!
Au contraire. A marvelous success. For the Conservative party, at least.

15. Political correctness - gone far too far !!
Very subjective. Not calling a spade a spade does have some advantages.

16. Health Service - too big !
Agreed. You either fund it properly and go bankrupt, or have poor healthcare.

17. Rich to poor pay gap - way too big !
Depends entirely on where you set the thresholds for "rich" and "poor". In general however, reward is a direct function of effort, application and ability.

18 . RAF - top-heavy !
Quite

19. Annual budgets - stupid !!
What would be preferable? 5-year plans?

20. Wind turbines ??
Energy without fuel costs seems like a winner to me.

[Pontius Navigator]

Wind turbines? At what economic cost? Do they ever show a profit?

More relevant, at what environmental cost? We know the cost of production, installation, grid connection, maintenance, and ultimately disposal, but what was the environmental cost against the environmental saving? When their life expires will they be abandoned like wartime forts, chopped to the sea bed, or recovered at greater environmental and economic costs?

Is solar a better proposition with power generated at the point of use?

[Wander00]

PN - I am with you on wind turbines. And all this electric car nonsense - the power has to be generated somewhere - so someone is getting the pollution, unless it is the small amount of "green" generation or nuclear that is saved just for electric vehicles (and tongue firmly in cheek to deflect the incoming).

[Pontius Navigator]

Wander, fit cars with solar and stop night driving :)

[Wander00]

Aah, at my age the latter might not be a bad idea, although it was Mrs W who rolled the X-Trail a week or so back, sober and in broad daylight, and she is 9 years younger than me!

[Herod]

Wander00. Agreed. Night vision does deteriorate with age. I was running through town just before Christmas (with a running club) and fell badly, tearing two tendons in my shoulder. Operation next month. I put it down to not being able to discern the heights of kerbs. I've told the club I'm not running until the evenings get lighter. I found the same with driving; not so easy to differentiate the kerb, especially against oncoming traffic. I'm safe enough, but I don't enjoy it any more, whereas once I preferred night driving.

[langleybaston]

QUOTE:

Wind turbines? At what economic cost? Do they ever show a profit?

More relevant, at what environmental cost?

In one of my whimsical moments [possibly senior as well] I caught myself wondering if all these wind turbines were perhaps slowing the rotation of the earth? This is based on the premise that nothing is for nothing.

Come to that, New York, London, Dubai, Beijing do stick up unnaturally. I just hope the Himalyas etc are shrinking to compensate.

Just wondered, mind you.

[A_Van]

Never shared enthusiasm about wind turbines. Just wonder why they are mentioned as a wonder :-) Solar arrays are better, but still the output per square/cubic meter of the space occupied is quite low.

And mankind still needs the technologies where a hell of output power could be generated by a compact generator. Recall that shortly after the first nuclear power plants were put into operations, and also H-bomb were invented, there was a lot of enthusiasm that fission was just an intermediate solution and very soon we would have (nuclear) fusion to feed us. No waste, no problem with fuel. When I was a schoolboy in 60's I read a lot about it as it appeared to come soon. Some 50 years passed, but we are still pissed. Next generation of "egg-headed" appears to be not that great and smart... And all those supercomputers and internets seem to be of no help to them.
With this regard I really loved the rumours spread by LockMart a few years ago (their famous Skunk Works) whispering that they were close to roll out an industrial solution for compact fusion. I am pretty sure it is not so, but what a great teaser! Perhaps the race for this new source of energy would get a really new impulse?

And of course, when talking about money, only for the amount spent/wasted in Afghanistan in this century (USD 500 - 900 bln) it would be possible to both solve the compact fusion problem and walk on Mars.


Herod, I wish you totally recover soon with no consequences to your health. Being a long distance runner/skier since my youth, I understand how inconvenient it is to be so much constrained.

[Pontius Navigator]

A Van, I guess solar is not a perfect solution in Russia. Plenty of sunshine in summer but if your panels are covered with ice or the northern winter things might be a tad different.

[MightyGem]

1. The tried and tested method of the day. Only there were a few more guns than anticipated.

2. A bit like England v Italy. It took a while to figure out what to do.

3. Non stick saucepans. :)

[mahogany bob]

19. Annual Budgets - stupid!!

I was hoping that some luminary would explain or defend 'annual ' budgets!
Remember in the 70s during a ' fuel ' crisis we had to eek out our reduced sqn fuel allocation. Less flying, shorter trips , best efficient crew table etc. Actually quite good training !
However with a about a month to go to the end of the financial year suddenly a load of fuel became available which HAD to be used by the said date! Resulting in flying long useless sorties (with airbrakes out ) etc!
How stupid was that?
Apparently it is still happening - with the overseas aid budget ?? Where millions are spent in haste on dubious projects?
Mugging up on budget control reveals that it should be possible to defer money to be used later when needed but is this done?? - and if not why
not ??

[esa-aardvark]

When I worked (space, not military), our budgets were allocated
for a purpose down to quite small detail. I was one of the people who helped plan it,
annual, 5 year, 20 year. There was no chance
just to throw away money at the end of a budget year.
With some adjustments for urgent requirements (wars etc)
I don't see why the same can't be done in the military. Of course
I retired in '95 and our annual budget was only a few billion.

[Pontius Navigator]

Annularity was still well in the 21st Century. Lyneham got a wonderful footpath across a large open grassed area so that families could stand on dry ground watching the annual bonfire. The footpath went no where and walkers would go round the perimeter on the grass.

Now THAT was annularity.