China in Afghanistan

[ORAC]

To be fair, after Russia, the USA and NATO, it is their turn to bleed......

Chinese troops appear to be operating in Afghanistan, and the Pentagon is OK with it (http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/chinese-troops-afghanistan?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2003.06.2017&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief)

WASHINGTON — There is mounting evidence that Chinese ground troops are operating inside Afghanistan, conducting joint counter-terror patrols with Afghan forces along a 50-mile stretch of their shared border and fueling speculation that Beijing is preparing to play a significantly greater role in the country's security once the U.S. and NATO leave.

The full scope of China's involvement remains unclear, and the Pentagon is unwilling to discuss it. “We know that they are there, that they are present,” a Pentagon spokesman said. Yet beyond a subtle acknowledgement, U.S. military officials in Washington and in Kabul would not respond to several detailed questions submitted by Military Times............

[Herod]

To be fair, after Russia, the USA and NATO, it is their turn to bleed......

Don't forget the British. Not just this time, but the First and Second Afghan Wars in the nineteenth century, and the Third in the twentieth

"Never fight a land war in Asia" Montgomery or Eisenhower, or.....

[Heathrow Harry]

Absolutely - Afghans don't like each other but they REALLY don't like foreign military

[Arclite01]

Yeah - good luck to them. No one wins there.

A good read on the subject is 'Butcher and Bolt' by David Loyn https://www.amazon.co.uk/Butcher-Bolt-David-Loyn/dp/0099522632

Arc

[Fareastdriver]

I hope that they do better than they did against the Vietnamese.

[Lyneham Lad]

Sounds like a low-profile way of having their troops gain some combat experience (in readiness for...)

[Fonsini]

Sounds like a low-profile way of having their troops gain some combat experience (in readiness for...)
I subscribe to this theory ^^

[topgas]

Obituary in the Times today of the great great grandson of Sir George Pollock, Baronet of the Khyber Pass, who lead the relief of Jalalabad and rescued the hostages in Kabul in 1842, after the disastrous retreat from Kabul

[Lonewolf_50]

I hope that they do better than they did against the Vietnamese. Not sure I do. I have some mixed emotions about this. I have a lot of friends who are of Vietnamese extraction, and have studied a bit about the late 70's conflict ... at the time I was rooting for the Vietnamese despite having a significant negative attitude towards Viet Nam in the larger sense.


From the PoV of feeling for our fellow mil professionals in the Chinese Army: I hope they do well and are allowed to do well ... but that is opposed by my distaste for the Chinese political class. I want them to get blood all over them for this.

We'll see how it goes. The Chinese have a shared border with Afghanistan, so there is a legit case for them to make in re the security of neighbors influencing their security. I seem to recall that in Western China the similar problem to Russia's "near abroad" is present.

[Herod]

How long before China decides it wants Primorsky Krai back from Russia? A land full of natural resources, and what was once part of China. Not a lot Russia could do about it, short of going nuclear; a bit like the West over Crimea.

[Lonewolf_50]

I suggest one not underestimate the Russians.

[minigundiplomat]

Sounds like a low-profile way of having their troops gain some combat experience (in readiness for...)


Well, it looks like Bush was ahead of his time then - most of the West should be experienced and ready in that case.....

[A_Van]

Herod,

Your knowledge of history is amazing. However, a piece of land, which is part of what is called in Russian "Primorsky krai" was indeed part of the Chinese empire, but for some time before ....the middle of 13th century.

After that guys like Genghis Khan occupied that whole area and kicked out the Chinese further south. Moreover, one of the Chinese ruling dynasties in the middle ages came from Mongolia, too.

Thus, speaking about claiming anything back from Russia by the Chinese sounds like a joke. Look at your campus: it was the time when (King) Henry III surrended most of his lands on the continent to (the French King) Louis IX. Wanna claim them back? :-)

[ORAC]

Van, look at the Chinese claims in the South-China Sea, some date even further back - once Chinese, always Chinese - and they define who was Chinese....

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china’s-south-china-sea-claims

".....Official Chinese history today often distorts this complex history, however, claiming that Mongols, Tibetans, Manchus, and Hans were all Chinese, when in fact the Great Wall was built by the Chinese dynasties to keep out the northern Mongol and Manchu tribes that repeatedly overran Han China; the wall actually represented the Han Chinese empire’s outer security perimeter. While most historians see the onslaught of the Mongol hordes led by Genghis Khan in the early 1200s as an apocalyptic event that threatened the very survival of ancient civilizations in India, Persia, and other nations (China chief among them), the Chinese have consciously promoted the myth that he was actually “Chinese,” and therefore all areas that the Mongols (the Yuan dynasty) had once occupied or conquered (such as Tibet and much of Central and Inner Asia) belong to China........"

[Fareastdriver]

I can remember a Chinese official pounding the desk insisting that as Singapore was made up of Chinese people it was an intrinsic part of China.

[A_Van]

ORAC, agree. There are always some "history distorters" among the politicians, and everything depends on who is prevailing....

Specifically with China we have some lessons learned in mid 60's when Mao tried to re-route the anger of his hordes to Soviet Union. To a large extent, that was why at that period of time intensive development of MLRS systems took place. The metrics were acres (in which everything had to be "decomposed to the dust level") :-)

[Lonewolf_50]

I can remember a Chinese official pounding the desk insisting that as Singapore was made up of Chinese people it was an intrinsic part of China. Reminds me of Milosevic's "wherever there are Serbs it is Serbia" line in the 90's. (Well, that's how it came across in translation, not sure what nuances were missed ...)

[Pontius Navigator]

Oh heck, Chinatown, Chinese restaurants, Indian diaspora . . .

I know I could get a Big Mac, but could I get a Chinese or Indian in Moscow?

[reynoldsno1]

The Chinese have significant mining interests in Afghanistan - particularly copper.

[mr fish]

one would imagine afgan dogs are presently ****ting it!!!


FISH.




and scorpions, snakes, rats, erm..dolphins etc.

[KenV]

On the subject of "taking historic lands back", it's been significantly less than two centuries since Mexico owned California and Texas. And not much more than two centuries since England owned many of the states in the eastern United States. Good luck taking those back.

[ericferret]

No interest in claims to any American land. However it might be nice to get Normandy, Brittany e.t.c back. While we are at it maybe we can junk Scotland. Nicola Sturgeon is missing a trick calling for another Scottish independence referendum. She should be calling for a referendum on whether the UK wants to retain Scotland. Independence in no time.

[ORAC]

And not much more than two centuries since England owned many of the states in the eastern United States. Good luck taking those back. And a lot less since we had a claim to a prime piece of real estate in mid-Pacific.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Flag-of-hawaii-flying.jpg/220px-Flag-of-hawaii-flying.jpg

[West Coast]

Jonathan Higgins is about the last vestige of that besides the flag.

[ORAC]

Strangely enough a pure-bred cousin who had never been to the UK.

[West Coast]

Small world init?

[Trim Stab]

Interesting that China would appear to be developing some sort of small unit expeditionary/SF?/ISR capability.