Xiamen Air - B737 contracts

[The Bullwinkle]

Just wondering if there are any expats flying the B737 for Xiamen who could offer some insights into what it's like flying for them. (Rosters, lifestyle etc)
Any information would be appreciated.

[zxccxz]

Decided to write a long post..
This is because I came on pprune around a year and a half ago and that's where I found out about Xiamen.
But except the link to the Terms and Conditions there wasn't much info here so I just went and everything worked out great..
Now it's my time to pay back sharing some info!


About the city:




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http://imageshack.com/a/img921/268/Un0qSm.jpg

Pollution --> Look at the sky color in the pics.
Compared with the rest of Chinese cities it is very clean, not many factories in town.
(of course don't expect the same quality of air of EU/US, but compared to Beijing it's heaven.)

Ranked 2nd city for quality of life in China (look at wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiamen)

There are bike paths everywhere, very clean. Parks, you can take long walks... etc.

Expats: you can find them only in a couple of neighborhoods, it's not an international city like Shanghai or Beijing.

Cost of life:
Taxi -> 30min ride approx 5 USD
Mc Donald's meal approx 4 USD

Places to stay:

A) Straits international community (single bedroom around 800 usd/month, double bedroom 900 usd month)
Near the beach, lots of western restaurants (but price for a dinner would be around 15-20 usd), nice area, lots of expats

Pics:

This is the view from an apt at 15th floor:

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B) Marco polo (single bedroom around 600 usd/month, double bedroom 700 usd month)
Lots of expats, near the lake (which is not really a lake anyway), lots of western shops, more things to do compared to Straits
http://imageshack.com/a/img921/9466/Uvyks7.jpg

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C) Near Tesco mall (single bedroom around 400 usd/month, double bedroom 550 usd month)
Newly built area, no expats, 5 mins from the airport, lots of western shops (mc donalds, starbucks, kfc, tesco, decathlon, everything basically)

International schools:
there are 2 of them, there is a queue to get your kids in.. So you have to sign up early.
But not much info on that (don't have any kids)

About the company:

I haven't been here long yet, but treatment from the start has been always very good.
They value pilots, always available to solve problems.
Spoke with many expats and they are very happy with the working conditions. (around 60 expats here at the moment)
Never saw that kind of attitude/enthusiasm at my last airline.

Pay:
Payscales are advertised everywhere, it's the most paying job on the 737 right now.
But there are a couple of things extra which are not advertised for some reason:

1) Profit share, about 10k USD/year
2) Overnight allowance (depends on contract, from 500 to 1500 usd depending if you commute or not)
3) Resident contract (which is what I am doing): overtime is counted monthly, so if you fly more than 75 hrs a month you earn 300 usd/hr.
Average is around 100 hrs/year of overtime (30k USD more)
The payscales that you read from the agencies are all net..

So for a resident contract you are looking at 30k USD/month.

Flights:
Mainly domestic but also some International destinations (Thailand, Japan, Malaysia, Indonesia)
Hotels -> 5 stars everywhere, really good.
This is the hotel where you do all the groundschool in Xiamen (and also the assessment when you come over)
http://imageshack.com/a/img922/1638/XXgENv.jpg

787 upgrade -> not advertised, nor offered at the moment.. but rumors that it will be in the future

Tickets:
5 free per year + 5 ID75.
This for you + wife + kids + parents.
Each of them gets 5+5 tickets


Other things to consider:

Roster 4 days ON, 2 days OFF.
Usually overnights are quite common, so expect to start on day 1 in Xiamen, then sleep 3 nights away.
Sometimes less.
Usually you will operate from a nearby airport (Fuzhou) which is a big base for them. (Hotel is really nice there)
Duty times: the really long slots that affected the operations until last year (1 hour each single and every domestic flight) are mostly gone (except Beijing and Shanghai which are overloaded).
However: it's not a walk in the park. Usually the flying days are long.
Also it takes some time to adapt, especially the first 2 weeks you will need to figure out how to use a VPN, their Uber-like taxi service app, the app to get food delivered to your door, the sim card, etc.. etc..
Anyway, for me it was a no brainer.
I was working a lot already at home.. Here I get paid the big bucks to do it!

Families: many capts choose to bring their wife here, if you are not married it's still doable but she will need to get a visa everytime.. So more complicated!

Ps: recruitment takes some time. Usually to get a response and to organize an assessment it's around 3 months.
I made some useful contacts here, so if interested in speeding up things or for first hand info on the assessment PM me!

Any additional info: kidnapper01 (at) gmail.com

[4runner]

Finally...a positive and realistic post. Seems to be a good outfit and you seem to be integrating well. Thanks a lot for the info and the pics. Am not knocking the boys that are negative, they have their grievances and then some. I'm just glad that someone is being well compensated and treated nicely on a contract job. Especially in China.

[TomGM]

Thanks for all this information. I was trying to send you a PM but I`m not allowed right now. I`m very interested in this company, I`m currently an NG Cpt at my country`s flag airline but looking for a change (BIG change). As soon as I can solve this problem I`ll PM you.

[zxccxz]

Hi Tom, I sent you an email through the "send an email" forum function!

[fly12]

Hello Guys, I am really interested in Xiamen Air, I am presently flying the 737 classic and NG as a captain in the US. Any info would be appreciated, recruitment process, medical info. etc. Thanks ([email protected])

[Iznogood]

zxccxz, just wanna say thank you for your post!

[sevenfour744]

Hey All,

I have an interview scheduled with Xiamen. Any gen/info would be greatly appreciated

[GJKS]

Hi, could you give us details about CAAC check. Many expat are failing in this fase.

[zxccxz]

Hi, this check depends on the Civil aviation authority examiner.
Usually they are very similar and the airline will give you 3 days training in the simulator to prepare all the scenarios that come up at the exams.

My exam:

windshear after takeoff
engine limit - surge - stall memory items
aileron jam
RTO due engine flameout
engine failure at v1, single engine ils, go around
dual pack failure @ fl170, rapid descent to avoid cab alt >10000ft, landing xmn vor 05, engine fire during short final, land, memory items on runway, evacuate.

In my batch 5 out of 6 people passed, it's doable but of course it requires some days of study and review before showing up at the sim!

[The Bullwinkle]

Hi again zxccxz,

Your information has been fantastic!
Thank you so much for all the great detail you have provided.

[zxccxz]

You are welcome!
If you are thinking to apply contact me at kidnapper01 (at) gmail.com, I have some good contacts here that can get you scheduled for an interview very fast..
Also got some first hand feedback about the assessments which are done montly!

Best regards

[Stallone]

such a great thread this is

everyone is sharing the good stuff

[italian stallion]

��thanks for all the information

[zxccxz]

You are welcome!

[Ovt]

Guys, I am doing the sim assessment in AMS at the end of the month...

Any idea what to expect ? I read a few things but mainly for the CAAC check

[zoom33]

all the best Ovt

[huffercart]

Thanks for the great feedback. Is there a ATPL theory test for the CAAC licence conversion?

[flymanu]

Hello,
I have a SIM check in AMS at the end of the month.
The info I had about the sim are the same info from zxccxz.
Busy for 2 hours, no time to explain or speak about your life in the box just do your job.
All the best

[framer]

Hi,
It seems to me that there are several different recruitment agencies all providing recruitment services for Xiamen Airlines. Does anyone here have an opinion about which ones are better or worse? Which ones provide the most support ? Which ones take a bigger cut of your pay etc? Which ones are easier to deal with? Having done contracts before I found that the ones that have an office 'in country' are generally better.
Any thoughts?

[Derek_DPI]

Hi Framer, there are many agencies doing the recruitment services on behalf of Xiamen along with other airlines in China and all offering the exact same service and packages to pilots. In fact I work for one based in Dublin, Ireland but also have agents in China. However, one thing you should be very aware of is that at no stage ever should you pay any agency a single penny/dime/cent!! All agencies are paid by the airline and at no time does the pilot pay the agency anything. Would be glad to help if you have any questions.

[RG500]

Hi,
It seems to me that there are several different recruitment agencies all providing recruitment services for Xiamen Airlines. Does anyone here have an opinion about which ones are better or worse? Which ones provide the most support ? Which ones take a bigger cut of your pay etc? Which ones are easier to deal with? Having done contracts before I found that the ones that have an office 'in country' are generally better.
Any thoughts?


IMHO, agents aren't worth the money that they make off of you.
They will hold your hand during the initial interview process, but if you have some acumen and with the information that the airline gives you (same as what a recruiter will offer) you can be as prepared as the rest of the candidates. In addition, there are plenty of insurance agents that will work with you, without having to be with an agent.
At a previous contract I had, it was mandatory to have an agent and I soon learnt that their priority is with the airline and not the pilot recruit.
I went direct hire with the airline and haven't regretted that decision.
Good luck

[framer]

Thank you, I appreciate the info.

[Newcomer2]

Also, any deep night flights?

[jakezahn]

What are "long days"? In my company long means anything up to and including 14hrs duty...

[italian stallion]

Hi there,
Can anyone give any updates regarding Xiamen, I have an assessment coming up in October.
Any information will be greatly appreciated.

[freightdriver]

Need some help in answering some question regarding Xiamen.....thanks

[PILOTHEAD]

Any chances for DEC on the 787 for current 777 and 787 captains at Xiamen ?

[fly4more]

Xiamen airlines is 100% owned by China Southern. So expect similar CAAC medical issues. It is quite carrier dependant. And the attitude of the candidate.

The elephant in the room is not so much passing the initial medical, its actually keeping it valid. So you pass the initial and are offered a position, resign from your current employer, it can be a big setback when in 6 or 12 months they say your blood flow rate is restricted, or your ECG is irregular.

With the big bucks pay comes associated risks. Otherwise everyone would be doing it.

And there will never, ever be a transfer from Skipper on 737 to 787 . But a carrot they will a dangle...

[The Bullwinkle]

Xiamen airlines is 100% owned by China Southern.
55%, but don't let facts get in the way!

[captain.weird]

Guys does someone have any document/info/website regarding the acceptance of licences of the CAAC? Like a list of countries and then: accepted or not.

[joe falchetto 64]

Yes there is one, regularly updated, but it is a CAAC internal paper: I cannot share, I am sorry. For any question it is possible to ask to any recruiter (at least any reliable recruiter).

[Ovt]

Hey guys !!! Going for the CAAC check in a couple weeks. Has anybody been there recently? Just wondering what to expect for the sim check.
For the ones who've done it already... do you remember if the track line under the ADI works when they fail the MAP or ND ?

[snak]

Hey guys !!! Going for the CAAC check in a couple weeks. Has anybody been there recently? Just wondering what to expect for the sim check.
For the ones who've done it already... do you remember if the track line under the ADI works when they fail the MAP or ND ?
Yes it does

[Ovt]

Yes it does

Awesome, thanks ! ;)

[Switchbait]

Gday all,
I am about to depart Xiamen, after 9 days here with my wife and 2 little kids.
We have had a great time here. The city is clean, with a well organised system of roads and public transport, and traffic that is quite honestly not bad at all. The local people are very welcoming and helpful.

We rode the public busses with ease and caught taxis using either google translate on my phone, or pre printed cards I had made.

Thank you to zxccxz for helping me make contact with one of the current Captains and his family. We had a great couple of days socialising with them, whilst they generously showed us around.

If anyone would like specifics about any particular aspects to the city and out visit, feel free to ask any questions, and DM if you prefer.

Overall, it looks to be a very liveable city, and the feedback from people currently at Xiamen Air is positive.

I’m looking forward to returning in May for screening.

Cheers,
Switchbait

[flamingmoe]

Thankyou Switchbait,

Good to hear that you had a positive experience in Xiamen, I too are watching this contract closely, as it appears to be the best for treatment of expats, and Xiamen appears on the surface to be quite nice, with minimal pollution.

A few questions if I could..

1. Do you know what the schedules are like, and if most trips are layovers? Do you know what layovers the 737 has?

2. Which areas in Xiamen are best for expats? How much would a nice apartment cost in these areas?

3. Do they dangle the 787 carrot, as one previous poster put it.

Thanks for your kind offer of help here, I wish you well in your upcoming screening.

[lancilov]

1. 4 days on 2 days off (has been also the minimum 36 hrs off at times but new caac regulations are coming in 2019 where it has to be fixed 48 hrs off so ...). can be up and down, or 1 leg and layover, or 2,3 legs with layover, its random, but generally, you sleep around the network mostly for the nights in your 4 days rotation, but not always...
there is loads of layovers in china, a lot to name, but outside china its Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, manila, Bali, I am sure I forgot something..

2. thats personal, most foreigners live in International straits , gated community, very nice. apartment depends on your need, 1 bedroom from 5.000rmb, to 4 bedroom Giant ones for 10-12 k... but this is top of the range, can get half of these prices outside gated communities...

3. yes its possible, not really a dangle, they offered, foreigners refused basically so they stopped offering. apparently they will offer again,

good luck

[Switchbait]

Cheers Flamingmoe,
Thanks for answering the questions Lance.

[Newcomer2]

Any night flights (let's say between 2am and 6am local time)?

[jonny dangerous]

I'm scheduled for a screening in June. I appreciate the info posted and will post any relevant info I pick up along the way.

Cheers

John

[lancilov]

negativ, no red eye flights... well except during 2 weeks of February in holidays, there is 1 flight to Bangkok overnight in whole network but, normally no foreigners fly unless you want overtime,...

[Newcomer2]

Awesome :ok:

[Switchbait]

Gday Jock,
Xiamen International School is really the only decent option. I visited the school in March with my family.
Teachers and kids all seemed happy, and the admin are welcoming and helpful.

The school website is a little out dated, but most of the info is correct and still relevant.

Cheers
Switchbait

[Transformer_Man]

Good luck. Be careful.

​​​​​​Look a bit more into life in the People's Republic of China, where you will live. There are countless rules and countless measures of surveillance, on and off the airplane. China is North Korea with a bit more soft power.
​​​​
​​The Next Chinese Hull Loss (https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/504738-next-chinese-hull-loss.html)

There are contracts and then there is what is really done. Scheduling rules and what is really flown.

[POWDERFINGER]

Make money, risk job loss every 6 months in medicals, sim checks. Live under the watchful eye of Big Brother.

Don't ever, EVER bend metal. (https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/552336-pilot-legal-prosecution-china.html#post8794137)

[Fareastdriver]

That thread was going four years ago. Still no hull loss.

[Low Pass]

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to help me get ahold of some 44on 16off rosters? Really want to see some recent rostering.

Thanks in advance
destevens(at)outlook.com

[Ovt]

Any luck with those rosters ?

[Switchbait]

Figure on working 4 days on, 2 days off and you won’t be too far off.

[Atomo]

Good afternoon Guys,

I'm going for my assessment next month in Xiamen. Anyone has fresh news or tips of what to expect for the sim CAAC et the company sim ?

Thanks for your help

( applied for Captain 737 )

[POWDERFINGER]

A foreign captain bent some metal at RPLL and there is intense scrutiny on the pilots. All of the foreigners, therefore, are having their qualifications revalidated by sim rides and written tests. It does not matter if a 6 month check was passed last month, licences to be summarily revoked for unsatisfactory checks.

​​No improvement in actual training.
CAAC / Company simply hires then culls low hanging fruit.
More bent metal possible, due no coherent training or leadership.
​
​​

[POWDERFINGER]

Rosters pilots experienc are: 4 or 5 days on, 36 or 48 hours off. Contracts are merely words on paper; in China you catch fish in muddy waters.

[A-V-8]

A foreign captain bent some metal at RPLL and there is intense scrutiny on the pilots.

Where was he from and how did he bend the metal?

[airdualbleedfault]

Read "Flying upside down" and try not to be one of the "oh that won't happen to me because I'm such a great pilot" brigade :rolleyes:

[mach85]

Read "Flying upside down" and try not to be one of the "oh that won't happen to me because I'm such a great pilot" brigade :rolleyes:


Ha ha ha ha ha sooooo true.

Its amazing how many you meet especially where I am. The nonsensical madness in China can happen to anyone so best to realise you are no different before starting a contract there.

Wise words bleedfault 👍👍

[WYOMINGPILOT]

All 737 recruiting is now ceased. Still recruiting for typed 777, 787 or 747 on the 787.

[italian stallion]

That seems the case....back to the drawing board now, which Chinese airline now?