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View Full Version : Jetstar lags rival's performance on Palmerston North-Auckland route


Chris2303
4th Mar 2017, 18:53
Seems JQ have crewing and maintenance problems in NZ.

Jetstar lags rival's performance on Palmerston North-Auckland route | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/89964372/jetstar-lags-rivals-performance-on-palmerston-northauckland-route)

framer
4th Mar 2017, 18:58
When a crew member is sick, airlines try to bring in a replacement from another route or shift, but that can't always be organised in time.
GA does that but every Airline I have worked for calls crew from reserve coverage to prevent flight cancellations. You get what you pay for. If it is cheap there is a reason.

Chris2303
5th Mar 2017, 03:20
It seems to me that the "operating on the smell of an oily rag" model means that there are no such thing as reserve/standby crew

Ollie Onion
5th Mar 2017, 04:37
I get the feeling that they are still in the establishment phase, unfortunately they haven't learnt from the Jetstar NZ Jet setup disaster and have made the same mistakes over and over again. By rushing into operation and stacking the operation with QLink pilots who are earning significantly more than the locally recruited guys they have sowed the seeds of discontent. They have tried to be cute with different contracts and crappy operating conditions and as a consequence are finding it hard to recruit DEC's and the FO's are leaving as soon as they have the hours to go to a jet operator. They refuse to give a career path to the A320 as they don't won't to complicate things with putting a path on paper?? They insisted on AKL bases only for the first 18 months instead of taking advantage of Link base closures and worst of all they have not invested ANY money in having spare capacity to absorb problems as this operation is still in the experimental phase. I was chatting to the senior pilot there and he said that crunch time will come soon when Qantas have to decide between pulling the plug all together or investing heavily in new/more aircraft and crew, I get the feeling it is still 50/50. Add to the the comment that Qlink seems to think 'we are training astronauts, taking 6-8 months to get a new FO on line when the current crew only have to give two week notice' when they leave. All in all the old saying Piss Poor Preparation Leads to Piss Poor Performance seems to describe it all pretty well.

Rotten Tommy
5th Mar 2017, 09:05
I'm not so sure Ollie.

In general I agree with "the vibe" of your post - that is that they are still very much in the establishment phase and the prior prep was a little lacking in some areas.

But on the other side of your post, they are getting a few DECs, some really good ones jumping ship from air nelson, a number from over seas, so its not all that bad.

They have taken advantage of the link base closure,- Napier, now being a JQ base. Thats a really positive thing IMO.

I'm not sure how high up the senior pilot was you were talking to but I think any plug pulling is a long way off. I agree that the current fleet aren't going to last long, and the operation is probably better suited to Q400s. Whether that happens or not, I'm a bit skeptical. I would hope they go with option B of your 50/50 but again, we have to remember they are still in the start-up phase. Yip crew have left, a number of Qlink pilots have gone home as well so crew numbers are very tight (hence the possibility of there not being any standby crew available in the above case).

Can't really argue too much about the astronaut comment. The training is very thorough, with a number of things being taught that really have little relevance in day to day operations in 2017. That said, 6 to 8 months is a bit stretched, at the moment its about 9-11 weeks in Sydney (yip a lot I know but there are breaks in that) and 6 to 8 weeks line training depending on various variables.

Overall though I really don't see any plug pulling any time soon. The operation IS doing better than expected, despite all the unfortunate negative press. It's very hard to get on some flights, some being sold out more than a month in advance. Yes there are some quiet ones too but all in all I would say they very well for only having been running 18 months or whatever. If there were more seats, they would be sold. Problem is getting them.

Give them time though, get the crew established and everything sorted I think I will end up a very good (and much needed) #2 regional airline in NZ.

Chris2303
5th Mar 2017, 18:45
Ollie the article mentions that it isn't just the Dash 8 fleet that is under crewed - the jet fleet is suffering too.

I think that the message has to be if you be serious about running the airline then give up and go home.

Rotten Tommy
5th Mar 2017, 19:27
Chris, lots of airlines are often under crewed. It's a bit of a problem the world over at the moment, people can't be trained fast enough. Jetstar are not the only ones in this boat, Air NZ have been canceling flights due lack of crew also, I'm thinking particularly about a period they went through maybe a year ago where the links were having an absolutely shocking month of crew induced cancellations. Should they give up and go home also ?

Water Wings
5th Mar 2017, 20:20
It's very hard to get on some flights, some being sold out more than a month in advance.
If you have flights fully booked a month out, you need to fire your revenue management team. You will be leaving money on the table and accepting depressed yields.

As an aside, regardless of whose paint is on the tail, we all have friends flying for the "other" guy or trying to nab that next job. JQ (both jet and prop) bring extra jobs into the New Zealand market and that's got to be a good thing.

Chris2303
6th Mar 2017, 18:13
Air NZ have been canceling flights due lack of crew also, I'm thinking particularly about a period they went through maybe a year ago where the links were having an absolutely shocking month of crew induced cancellations. Should they give up and go home also ?

Um, they are home......

27/09
7th Mar 2017, 04:20
Q400's could do well in NZ.

If they could do well in NZ one of the NZ Links would be already operating them.

I heard Air Nelson had options on them some time ago.

Not enough sectors which are long enough to make them effective. Not enough time saving and comparatively too much cost.

27/09
8th Mar 2017, 03:47
That being said, I'm of the opinion that Jetstar (QANTAS at the time) should of been told to bugger off back to the Western Island from whence they came after Laurie Brereton reneged on the agreement which gave domestic rights to both countries... but that's for another thread
Agree wholeheartedly. That whole thing was a fiasco

framer
8th Mar 2017, 05:38
What happened? I'd like to know if you have the time.

27/09
8th Mar 2017, 07:05
What happened?

The Single Aviation Market agreement signed in 1996 which Australia didn't honour.

From here: https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/australia-and-new-zealand-sign-open-skies-agreement

The agreement will formalise the Single Aviation Market (SAM) arrangements, which were signed in 1996. The SAM arrangements allow all Australian and New Zealand owned airlines to operate trans-Tasman services and domestic services in either country, subject to the necessary safety approvals.

When Air New Zealand wanted to start domestic operations in Australia they were blocked by Laurie Brereton, where as New Zealand allowed Australian owned airlines to operate domestically in New Zealand as per the agreement.

This is what precipitated Air New Zealand's disastrous purchase of the Ansett lemon.

framer
9th Mar 2017, 09:42
Thanks, interesting history. I'll google Brereton and learn more.

cavemanzk
10th Mar 2017, 20:33
As for the recent crewing issues, the damage was done to J* reputation years ago so plenty of kiwis and tourists had already written them off. That ship has truly sailed for J* so I doubt they even worry about it anymore.


Qantas should of dropped the JQ brand out of New Zealand, then reintroduced the Qantas or Qantas Link branding to New Zealand.

I know allot of people that are like oh NZ is only $10 more than JQ, why not just book NZ.

Ollie Onion
10th Mar 2017, 22:48
cavemanzk, that may be the case but it is also the case that Jetstar NZ's load factors are high and they made a record profit this year. So someone is using them. Jetstar is a cash cow for Qantas, why would they mess with that. Don't forget with Jetconnect operating domestically in NZ they were losing $20,000,000 per year. Jetstar has atleast broken even or made profits since they have started here, so that is a huge plus for the Qantas grounp.

Chris2303
11th Mar 2017, 07:15
cavemanzk, that may be the case but it is also the case that Jetstar NZ's load factors are high and they made a record profit this year. So someone is using them. Jetstar is a cash cow for Qantas, why would they mess with that. Don't forget with Jetconnect operating domestically in NZ they were losing $20,000,000 per year. Jetstar has atleast broken even or made profits since they have started here, so that is a huge plus for the Qantas grounp.

Yes someone is using them but NZ has the lions share of capacity and frequency whereas JQ's offerings are extremely limited.

I'd quite like to see BITE statistics in NZ - they may be somewhat interesting.

waren9
11th Mar 2017, 09:24
Jetstar has atleast broken even or made profits since they have started here, so that is a huge plus for the Qantas grounp.

got any link or other reference for that ollie?

there'd be a few that'd agree to disagree there.