Boeing 747 Combi

[TSR2]

Does anyone know if BA ever operated a Boeing 747-200 Combi.

[exeng]

Yrs they did.

[Anilv]

2 aircraft ..G-BDXN and XP ..

[Flightwatch]

5 actually. G-BLVE/F leased from MEA 1985 to 90 and G-BDXM/N/P. Certainly VE/F and XP were flown in combi version, I don't remember if XM/N were used as combis in BA, I remember them as all pax with slightly higher TOW than the earlier -236s, but certainly afterwards by Air Atlanta for Malaysian when I think they were always pure freighters. VE wasn't used for long as a combi but VF was used for the entire lease flying LHR-SVO-NRT and return twice a week and ORD that I can remember.

[TSR2]

Thank you for the replies.

I remember flying LHR-ORD on one in the 80's but cannot be certain of the airline. At that time I flew that route reasonably regularly and cannot remember flying with any other airline than BA.

[WHBM]

Most likely a BA one, as none of the US carriers on the route had one.

They were often rotated round by the day dependent on cargo loads on different routes.

The ones leased from MEA originally dated from 1975, having been delivered there just as the lengthy civil war broke out. They were leased out to various carriers for lengthy (as BA here - 5 years 1985-90) terms until the 1990s, when they finally reverted to their owner's services.

BA's own handful dated from 1987, so the whole lot were in service in the late 1980s. They were sold off around the turn of the century, a notably short period for BA 747s to be in the fleet.

[Porky Speedpig]

Combi life in BA curtailed by the SAA Helderberg incident which imposed punitive restrictions so in reality became particularly heavy passenger aircraft with additional maintenance requirements i.e. uneconomic to operate

[Mr Mac]

All
Never realised BA had any of these, and I was flying a lot on the North Atlantic at the time with them. All my time on Combi was on one route, from Amsterdam to Houston with KLM, and it was definitely a mixed Cargo passenger flight with bulk head in place.


Regards
Mr Mac

[Bergerie1]

BA had a Combi flying into Al Jubail on an MOD contract in 1991 during the first Gulf War.

[Meikleour]

Bergerie1: Nope. I think you will find that it was an ex-BA B747-236F in the first gulf war but was operated (stealthily) by a well known far eastern carrier with a green and white colour scheme! Best not to ask how I know this.............

[DaveReidUK]

Nope. I think you will find that it was an ex-BA B747-236F in the first gulf war but was operated (stealthily) by a well known far eastern carrier with a green and white colour scheme! Best not to ask how I know this.............

Ah, the infamous all-white "Ascot 888" aka the "Stealth Freighter".

[Una Due Tfc]

I remember hearing a story many years ago of the Israelis painting a cargo 747 up in the colour scheme of the flag carrier of a small, neutral Western European country for a one off flight in Iran around that time. The story goes that a number of fast jets hid in its' radar signature until close enough to their target.

[Bergerie1]

Meikleour, No - I know for a fact it was a British Airways operated aircraft. I could even quote the captain's name and dates of the flights, but not here on Prune!

[Vzlet]

The April 2014 issue (https://www.airpilots.org/file/1554/apr-14-air-pilots.pdf) of "Air Pilot" provides this:

"...Operation Granby, when Cathay leased a 747 Freighter to the MoD based initially out of Stansted, and subsequently Brize Norton. Operations were conducted under an RAF callsign of Ascot 888 (a very lucky number in Chinese) flying 'non contentious' supplies to Dhahran. The aircraft (VR-HVY) was painted completely white and,as a result, became known to the crews as the 'Stealth Freighter”.

[bgbazz]

Slight thread drift here...my one and only trip in a 747-200 Combi was experienced as SLF and it was a nightmare! Supposed to a direct flight from Singapore to Heathrow, but turned out to be somewhat different to what was planned. The passenger number was somewhat lower than what I had expected so there were quite a few empty seats...cabin crew (if you could call them that, seemed to be made up of office staff going on vacation). I was seated just forward of the dividing bulkhead for a while and the sweet smell of that green stuff made my eyes water...I moved as far forward as I could, just to catch some sleep. About 4 hours into the flight, the plumbing system pooped itself, so no toilets were usable! Arriving over Europe, the captain came on the PA and announced that due to a fuel problem we would be landing in Frankfurt for a short stop...that didn't happen and we ended up landing in Brussels instead and were parked on a hardstand, miles from anywhere Obviously, the pax were not allowed off the aircraft, but the purser had the good sense to open a side door and the queue for a pee was something to behold...albeit 20 odd feet above the ground...the poor females had to use a plastic bucket in the blocked restrooms.
I watched from the open door as the Captain made the refueling arrangements with the Belgian fuel tanker driver, I saw him pay with a credit card and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. We arrived at Heathrow about 4 hours later.

I realise that most of you will think this is a BS tale...but you would be wrong!!

The airline? I'm not going to denounce anyone directly, but most of their aircraft have a dark red leaf somewhere in their livery.

The year?...1989.

I've flown countless hundreds of times since then, in probably every version of the 747 and the experiences have been pretty positive overall...I've sat at the pointy end and every class of seat in between, all the way to the blunt end and my last comment would have to be this...freighters carry freight, airliners carry people...stuff the combi!

[DaveReidUK]

The airline? I'm not going to denounce anyone directly, but most of their aircraft have a dark red leaf somewhere in their livery.

Flying pax SIN-LHR ?

[WHBM]

Flying pax SIN-LHR ?

I can think of one "Dark red leaf" livery operator, who at that time operated from Singapore to Heathrow. They normally made a commercial stop at Bombay, but there may have been nonstops as well. They had two 747 Combis, which were used on the route (their main use).

[primreamer]

BA also operated the ex British Caledonian combi, G-HUGE, for a short while after their takeover of BCal in 1988.

[Exaviator]

I spent 13 years on the 747 fleet with Singapore Airlines, which included three Combies. It made no difference which aircraft we flew, Pax/Cargo/Combi. The main difference on the latter was a rather protracted fire fighting procedure for the aft cargo compartment which entailed a senior Chief Steward entering the compartment wearing breathing apparatus and equipped with a large extinguisher which had about a six foot extended nozzel. Through out the exercise he had to maintain communication with another crew member stationed at door 4 left, who in turn relayed the info to the flight deck. Fortunately whilst we all had to practise the procedure every 12 months, I never had to put into practice.

[tdracer]

I doubt you'll ever see any more new build combi's - 747 or otherwise. The regulatory changes after the above mentioned Helderberg crash simply make certification impractical. If there are any 'new' combi's, they won't be coming from Boeing/Airbus/etc., they'll be aftermarket modifications.
Sadly, STC's all to often aren't given nearly the scrutiny that TC/ATCs get.

[Anilv]

Doing the loadsheet for the combi was challenging.

Loading and offloading even more so.

You really needed the help of the guys in the warehouse to build up all the heavy, high density stuff into lower deck pallets so that you could stuff them in the front lower-deck. The lighter less dense stuff would go in the maindeck and maybe some LD3 cans.

Sequencing the offload was important to avoid tail-tip.
1. Install tail-prop
2. Start offloading the rear and maindeck as soon as possible.
3. Once rear and maindeck offloaded, offload and load the forward hold.
4. continue with loading the main deck and rear hold.

Easy enough if you were the end station but if you were in the middle you had to worry about the transit load... if the origin station had a few lower-deck pallets for the destination then you were ok. But if they had some big stuff in the main deck you had to get creative.

One day I had a some big stuff on the maindeck and nothing much in the forward to hold it down. What I had to do was send 2 of the pallets bound for my (transit) station on to the end-station. They sent it back later that day on the return leg. Needless to say the cargo guys weren't pleased.

Alitalia had a 17 maindeck pallet which passed thru SIN regularly on its way to Australia. That was a pain to trim.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.

Anilv

[Bergerie1]

Meikleour, Vzlet, My apologies, I have checked my notes. BA operated 3 Combi flights into Al Jubail (before and after the start of hostilities) and then stopped. The well known green and white operator continued their 'stealth flights' for a while afterwards.

[DaveReidUK]

I can think of one "Dark red leaf" livery operator, who at that time operated from Singapore to Heathrow. They normally made a commercial stop at Bombay, but there may have been nonstops as well. They had two 747 Combis, which were used on the route (their main use).

Can't be AC, as their maple leaf was white in those days (and they had 3 747 Combis).

The plot thickens ...

[WHBM]

Can't be AC, as their maple leaf was white in those daysOnly the big one on the fin. Think nationality flag.