New Zealand to Host Singaporean F-15SG?

[ORAC]

NZ could host Singapore's fighter jets at Ohakea - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11807172)

Singapore is eying Ohakea air base in Manawatu as a potential base for one of its own Air Force squadrons of F15 fighter jets. Up to 500 people would be stationed in or near the base in the region.

Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee confirmed that the Singapore Government in undertaking a feasibility study to determine what the move would entail, including housing and education needs of family. That study needed to be completed before any proposal could be put before the Singapore or New Zealand Governments. Brownlee said that Singapore's position in Southeast Asia so close to Malaysia and near Indoesia meant that air space was very tight. "New Zealand doesn't have the same congestion so the opportunity to fly more freely clearly exists at Ohakea."

The Singapore Air Force has other overseas bases, in France, the United States and in Western Australia's Pearce Air Base where a squadron is based.

Brownlee suggested the benefits to New Zealand would be strategic and economic. "It would mean there would be up to 500 people based out of Ohakea in the Manawatu region so that has a big economic effect on the local community," he told the Weekend Herald. "But the benefit of strengthening the strategic alliance with Singapore is the most important aspect." Brownlee said there was deadline by which the proposal needed to be considered by but he expected that it was approved, could take a couple of years to establish.

Singapore and New Zealand have a longstanding defence relationship. The New Zealand Army stationed a battalion in Singapore for 20 years until 1989. And both are members of the Five Power Defence Arrangement along with Britain, Australia and Malaysia.

New Zealand's combat arm of the Air Force was axed in 2001 by the Helen Clark-led Labour Government. Asked if the Singapore proposal might be a way for New Zealand to re-establish a combat arm, Brownlee said "definitely not." "It would be a Singapore operation entirely but based at Ohakea." He did not know how many aircraft would be involved but a squadron is usually between 12 and 24 aircraft......

[tartare]

Wow.
We can only hope.
Now - how long will it be before the inevitable greenie whingers start bleating about noise, peace etc.
And I hope they don't co-opt some local tangata whenua to try to add to any objections.
Jets above the Manawatu once more!

[West Coast]

Hope these frontline assets can make it back to Singapore in short order should they be needed. I know some are for training, and obviously there's limited space to base them, but they need to be available in time of need.

[Heathrow Harry]

Well they have the tanker assets to do it but it could be tough if Indonesia was the"enemy"

On the other hand they are so restricted for airspace around S'pore they have little choice

[ORAC]

NZ to Darwin, then Darwin - home routing north of Indonesia over international waters.

[OK4Wire]

What?? Oh, you mean due east to Thursday Is, then north to Davao (ish), then loop around Borneo back home?

[Heathrow Harry]

Of course the Indonesian AF might not notice................... its a very big country

[MACH2NUMBER]

What a paradox. Scrap your own air combat arm, but host another nation's.Is this unique?

[ORAC]

Ask Iceland........

[juliet]

The jets can self deploy, tankers not really needed.

[West Coast]

The jets can self deploy, tankers not really needed.

Doubt they can self deploy (self recover in this case?) without a stop (Oz perhaps). That brings politics into play and next thing you know you're threading the straits of Gib because you don't have overflight rights. Fighting your way in might be tough without tanker support as well.
I'd be surprised if this hasn't been contemplated by leadership. Curious to see what would trigger their return and how early into the crisis they'd be headed back.

[juliet]

Obviously there would be a stop in Aussie if they self deploy. They have to fly that way anyway, the alternative route is longer and realistically more of a diplomatic hassle than the Aussie route.

You're talking about a well over 4,500nm trip so realistically there is probably going to be tech stop anyway even with a tanker if you drag them over. I guess you could put a tanker half way over Aus in a towline but by the time all that got sorted the jets probably could've got themselves home already.

Quite frankly Aus is not going to be anything but wholly supportive if Singapore ever needed to defend itself. If anything the greatest potential issue would be Green Party nutters in NZ trying to sabotage at the Kiwi end.

[West Coast]

I'd venture to say you're correct, but politics being what they are, it's a point a potential adversary wouldn't be ignorant of.

[megan]

Australia just recently had the Singaporean F-15 and F-16 (many of) operating out of Darwin for exercise "Pitch Black". Indonesia is a participant so expect the Singaporeans to overfly. We are well used to the Singaporeans, 126 Squadron with "Cougars" based at Oakey in Queensland and 130 Squadron with PC-21 at Pearce Western Australia. Our Mirages used to stop off in Indonesia for fuel transiting to Butterworth.

[Heathrow Harry]

It's hard to see Singapore getting into a shooting war with their immediate neighbours TBH. I'm pretty sure they have a far more effetcive armed services than either Malaysia or Indonesia - but what would they do?

They have the capability to say take over Johor & Batam but the malaysians could just retire and intercept traffic further north - and Indonesia is so big it would be like invading Russia.....................

Singapore has no border with China, even China's "dotted lines" ...

I guess they might get involved in support of someone in a regional set-to or a UN action in say S Korea if the fat one goes crazy but a country dependent on trade isn't in agreat place to start a fight with anyone - scares off the investors...............

It's pretty much a purely defensive investment I think

[flyinkiwi]

What a paradox. Scrap your own air combat arm, but host another nation's.Is this unique?

It makes perfect sense when you realize that when it comes to the current NZ govt everything is for sale. As long as the Singaporeans front the cash they can do what they want.

[Pontius Navigator]

We did Darwin-Ohakea but flagged in Amberley.

[tartare]

Everything's been for sale in NZ since 1984 my friend.
I think the country would only get an air-combat wing back when affordable UCAVs are finally a reality... and even that may be a contradiction in terms.

[flyinkiwi]

I think the country would only get an air-combat wing back when affordable UCAVs are finally a reality... and even that may be a contradiction in terms.

You mean like this (https://youtu.be/SNPJMk2fgJU)? :}

[Octane]

Handles the recoil well! But I suspect in the real world it wouldn't get within cooee before it was blown out of the sky......

[Arclite01]

Just because there are F15's based in the country does not mean that they are available for NZ defence.

As far as I can make out this is just for the use of facilities and airspace because they don't have enough of their own - Not a defence contribution.

Arc

[Heathrow Harry]

Maybe we have it the wrong way round...

perhaps it's the first step in Singapore "merging" with New Zealand - after all they have a bigger population and could do with the space and NZ needs the investment - and decently equipped armed forces as well.

[Arclite01]

They'd be better off merging with Oz............

Arc

[ORAC]

Which would solve their sand problem....

[tartare]

It's actually all part of a covert, cunning plan to invade the west island.
In at 50 feet above the Tasman.
We'll have annexed Sydney and drunk all the Coopers before Amberley and Tindall have even woken up.

[Heathrow Harry]

"They'd be better off merging with Oz............"

Can't see the Oztralians standing the discipline - no gum chewing, no spitting, no hanging around McDonalds, the lash for spray painting graffitti......................

[SpazSinbad]

Singapore eying F-15 training deployments to New Zealand (http://www.defensenews.com/articles/singapore-eying-f-15-training-deployments-to-new-zealand)

[tartare]

The bleating has started (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11809357)already.
An article so wrong-headed on so many counts it's hard to know where to start.

[flyinkiwi]

That article is pure and simple scaremongering. Fingers crossed that the average Kiwi does what they always do when the topic of defense is raised and put their head in the sand till it goes away.

[megan]

NZ has nothing to worry about. John Hill (you need to be in Jetblast to understand) will whistle up his mate in North Korea to sort any issue out. You can join the friendship movement here.

https://dprkorea.org.nz/

As for Singapore and Oz, I think they own half of everything already, China has the other half.

[KiwiBoyZac]

The RSAF sent a pair of F-15SGs over for the Air Tattoo at Ohakea over the weekend, supported by a KC-135R which remained at Amberley.


Someone at WONZ pointed out this subject was raised, and discussed, seven years ago: Air Force fighter pilots from Singapore | Wings Over New Zealand (http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/10564/air-force-fighter-pilots-singapore)

[SpazSinbad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RenRILqwhJs

[Octane]

Yeah but you're forgetting the hundreds of thousands of hunters with sniper rifles who don't mind living it rough. Mind you, they'd have to keep coming back to civilization to stock up on coldies. Actually, thinking about it, the "invasion" would just turn into one massive pi$$up!

[SpazSinbad]

Yeah Feral Brush Tail Ozzie Possum Invaders do it tough these days over there in the Shakey Isles - the Land of the Long White Cloud. IIRC those possums will be eradicated within the decade <sigh>

[Octane]

Um, my mates prefer larger creatures than possums!
Deer, pigs and goats are the usual fare oh and the occasional wallaby believe it or not!
All the boys have multiple freezers in the garage (and multiple weapons!)
They'll never eradicate those pesky possums, there's something like a 100 million of the critters...

[SpazSinbad]

Your rite - those 'mates' won't get the possums - another method will.

[MACH2NUMBER]

Just being a little simplistic, but some, of the best fighter pilots I ever met were Kiwis. I still find the demise of their combat arm very sad.

[flyinkiwi]

As do a small number of New Zealanders MACH2NUMBER. The problem is, successive NZ governments have systematically reduced defense spending over the past 50 years and the voters were then and are now still totally apathetic about it. Labour even won the 2002 election comfortably the year after scrapping the air combat force, which tells you clearly how important it was to the NZ voting public. The only party which has committed (i.e. it is explicitly written into their defense policy) to re-establishing it is NZ First, National were happy to play the political game when the decision was announced in 2001 but have not done anything about it after winning the last two successive elections other than offer up Ohakea to the Singaporeans.

But I digress.

[Octane]

I seem to recall reading years ago that at the end of WW2, the RNZAF was the 7th largest in the world! How times have changed :-(

[Heathrow Harry]

But what is the point of a large combat air arm in NZ? You have no close threats and the only way you're going to need them is if you decide to join in some foreign adventures where you'll be very much teh junior partner

A squadron of sub-sonic aircraft with the ability to intercept an airliner and maybe carry some basic anti-shipping missile is about all that's needed

MPA and transport is different - you need those far more than fighters

[ORAC]

A squadron of sub-sonic aircraft with the ability to intercept an airliner Speaking as someone who controlled QRA for nearly 25 years, I assure that that by the time you add up detection, identification, decision making, scrambling and then climbing to above 30K to intercept, identify and, possibly, engage - you definitely need to be able to go supersonic.

Which is why you keep reading those reports of sonic booms over the UK as the RAF does it.....

[MACH2NUMBER]

Spot on ORAC, in anti-terrorist air operations, speed is absolutely vital. I suspect if anything untoward ever happened in NZ airspace people would demand that heads be rolled.

[Arclite01]

Did NZ ever actually have any form of QRA operation anyway ??

I don't think they ever had any true fighters since Vampires !!

:}

Arc

[Heathrow Harry]

ORAC etc make a good point - I guess it all depends on how far in advance you decide its a possible threat..................

[Octane]

They've got 2 Mosquito fighter bombers in the air in the last few years with a third on way. Do they count?! They seem to have the talent, maybe they could start mass producing something basic, cheap, suitable and cheap to operate? What on earth would it be though?
They also do have the worlds largest collection of airworthy WW1 aircraft :}