When I wasn't on Lightnings....

[NutLoose]

:8


Still they are about and they had a photoshoot tonight, so instead I will bore you all to death posting a couple of my images... you have been warned :O





https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2220/32133185464_f46a6bafa5_c.jpg

[MACH2NUMBER]

Well, you flushed a WIWOL out, looks like XS904. My steed for some years.

[Uptime]

Great, takes me back to my simulator days at Wattisham & Binbrook in the 70's.
Its a long way from Arizona for the photo shoot, the more images the merrier - thanks..

[tartare]

Now that is a jet.

[Pontius Navigator]

Typical Nutty, all promises and no delivery.

Promises a couple and posts one.

Just joking, any more please?

[NutLoose]

Ok, a night shot of the cockpit of one the aircraft with all the cockpit lighting on. Handheld gulp! click on it a couple off times for the full size shot. Sorry for the delay, was processing / sleeping


Feel at home?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2589/32831911162_0f88239094_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/S2f8kQ)
Lightning Cockpit (https://flic.kr/p/S2f8kQ) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[Pontius Navigator]

Nutty, thank you, at home, no? I am with the thread title. Only had one trip.

[safetypee]

The photo suggests that the Lightning was fitted with a RAD ALT (centre top of the glare shield).
Must have been when I wasn't on Lightnings, after 72.
What RA, when, where, how?

[NutLoose]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/430/32832659452_cdb0b76e20_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/S2iXMo)
QRA Lightning (https://flic.kr/p/S2iXMo) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[Krystal n chips]

There appears to be a remarkable lack of drip trays....and sundry / associated floor stains....;)

[NutLoose]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2333/32172931353_b57fccca20_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/R21FAZ)

[NutLoose]

These guys stood perfectly still, this is a 30 second exposure!!


https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/263/32173223963_ede62c35ed_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/R23bzZ)

[NutLoose]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/586/32606695850_cbcd326fa6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RFkQFd) QRA Lightning and crew-1 (https://flic.kr/p/RFkQFd) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[NutLoose]

Bored yet?


https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2145/32174138413_d5cebabc23_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/R27Sqn)
Lightnings-1 (https://flic.kr/p/R27Sqn) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[ancientaviator62]

NutLoose,
keep 'em coming . Great nostalgia trip for this ex 92 Air Radar Fitter.

[NutLoose]

The QRA sheds incidentally are the ones from Wattisham rebuilt at Bruntingthorpe.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/629/32607784200_bcf3a347f6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RFrqcS)Lightnings QRA Bruntingthorpe (https://flic.kr/p/RFrqcS) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

[MACH2NUMBER]

Nutloose,
Superb pictures of a superb beast. For Lightning spotters, do you know how to recognise XS904 by its camouflage alone? Answers please.

[haltonbrat]

The Rad Alt was manfactured by Smiths Industries to a Honeywell design. They were being fitted when I was at Binbrook (79-85).

I had quite bit to do with this kit on various platforms when I was a Smiths Rep after leaving the RAF

[Shaft109]

Just a question - in the hangar is a large yellow guide tray for the nose wheel - what is that there for ?

[charliegolf]

Guess: castoring nosewheel- yellow thingy stops the zoomie zooming off into the wall?

CG

[NutLoose]

Shaft, it was for QRA launches apparently, it kept the aircraft straight when departing the shed in a rush, thus preventing it from hitting anything.


Mach, is the Camo mirrored, Ie grey should be green etc

[Shaft109]

Ah so the Lightning didn't have nose wheel steering as such?

[nipva]

Just a question - in the hangar is a large yellow guide tray for the nose wheel - what is that there for ?

I certainly don't remember any such thing from my 2 Lightning tours (early 70's) when scrambles were a regular occurrence. It would have been a major trip hazard to both scurrying groundcrew and sprinting pilots when coming to cockpit readiness. Moreover despite having no nosewheel steering (it was all twist and steer like the Hunter) the nosewheel naturally castered to the central position and needed quite a positive input to deflect it when taxying. So coming out of the shed in a straight line was never an issue. The F4 with its extra 4' wingspan used the same sheds so wingtip clearance cannot have been that critical.

I can only suggest that it is used by Bruntingthorpe for pushbacks where the nosewheel would want to caster off centre all the time.

[NutLoose]

They popped it in for the photoshoot :)

As the shed came from Wattisham, it probably came with it, one would imagine it was one of those things designed at the outset, but in reality found not to be of any practical use, so it was quietly binned to some unused corner as it would still be on someone's inventory.

[newt]

We did not have it at Gutersloh or Wattisham as I recall!

[haltonbrat]

No, these was no nosewheel steering. Directional control was achieved by differential braking which was not particularly precise

[MACH2NUMBER]

Nutty,
No on the camouflage mirroring, but you are right to concentrate on the pattern.

[NutLoose]

On wrong side or slopes the wrong way?

[safetypee]

...didn't have nose wheel steering as such?
No, but there was a stick top switch - 'Nuclear Weapons Switch' - labelled 'NWS'.

[MACH2NUMBER]

Nutty, very close, the answer lies on the port side.

[NutLoose]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/513/32870415231_ea3d2f9d18_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/S5Dtg6) QRA (https://flic.kr/p/S5Dtg6) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr




:O

[MPN11]

Port side ... Flt Lt Carrol never flew t?

Or ...

It never had a refuelling probe?

[MACH2NUMBER]

OK, it was clearly too difficult for you Lightning spotters. I must admit I only know this from a German Lt Col who built and gave me a superb model of XS904. Apparently no other Lightning has the green and grey camouflage boundary in a very straight line from the forward port cockpit window down towards the nose-wheel bay.
Now thats real spotting!!

[CharlieJuliet]

The colour scheme does not really matter as in the day we were all silver, but the pics are very evocative of the Lightning era. AFAIR there were groves in the alert hangar floors at Binbrook to guide the aircraft via the nosewheels (no NWS, and no wood guides). On a scamble we would be too busy closing and locking the canopy, selecting the main gen, checking all lights out before selecting reheat to worry too much about where we were going. So the grooves avoided any unpleasantness. I think we could manage around 3 minutes from cold - any takers?

[John Eacott]

I'm sure that eventually someone will mention to the 'pilot' that it was a hanging offence to carry the helmet by the chinstrap ;)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/263/32173223963_ede62c35ed_c.jpg

[GeeRam]

Apparently no other Lightning has the green and grey camouflage boundary in a very straight line from the forward port cockpit window down towards the nose-wheel bay.


Pretty sure XR758 was the same?

[West Coast]

How long was an average sortie w/o externals/conformal (if it had them)?

As it was C/L, was one of the engines ever shut down intentionally to extend time aloft? Never really considered the possibilities with an engine configuration like that.

[nipva]

West Coast

Typical subsonic, non-combat sortie length was 1hr 10mins. Such sorties only used reheat for T/O. Any supersonics/combat brought the typical sortie length down to 45mins. There were no external tanks apart from the overwing ferry tanks which were both g limited (3.5 from memory) and to subsonic flight. They increased sortie lengths by about 10-15' as much of the extra fuel was burned dragging them up to height. Where they came into their own was in conjunction with AAR.

As to shutting down an engine to increase airborne time, it was not officially permitted however was quite common practice but we always shut down the No 2 (upper) engine as there were some quite important hydraulics attached to the No 1 particularly the brake parachute doors. Having said that, it was SOP to shut down the No 2 when diverting short of fuel and transferring all its fuel to the No 1.
Hope this answers your questions.

[ORAC]

Shorted I ever controlled was just under 10m. Intercepting 2 A-10s inbound just off Spurn. Took control of an F3 just off the end of the runway and intercepted within a minute - at which stage he went into combat playing the vertical as the pair circled and kept to trying to get their guns pointing at him. Ran out of fuel in about 7 minutes.

[Pontius Navigator]

ORAC, did he get a kill? Or even a shot off?

Once saw an ACMI playback 2x2 F3 defending a HVAA opposed by 16xF16. Quite a turkey shoot. Only 3 missiles launched and two F3 splashed.

Only thing was, no F16 either engaged or was engaged.

[ORAC]

No, no kill. A-10s were very good at self defence and mutual cover.

[West Coast]

Nipva

Thanks for the answers. Sortie time is greater than I would have thought given what I've read here, expecting .4 to .5 to be an average. With the averages you mentioned, it was more than a point defense MiG21 type of aircraft.

[MACH2NUMBER]

West Coast,
All depends on the mark of Lightning. The F2A (used in Germany) had only fuel in the belly tank the canons were integral. It could do up to 1hr 15m at low level (its primary role) and up to 1hr 55m at high level. Obviously no targets attacked. I have a 10 minute flight in my log book flying an F3 Lightning, with both practice missiles expended against 2 Jaguars. This was a short range airfield defence mission. as soon as missiles were expended you had to land ASAP to refuel and (practice) rearm.

[newt]

The Mk2a had the large ventral and two top guns. It still had fuel in the wings!!!!! The missile pack could be replaced with a gun pack ( no effect on fuel load) to give the four gun fit. It could do over two hours on a border patrol! How do I know..... over 700 hours and I have fired all four guns in the range at Leewarden!😎😎😎😎😎😎

[NutLoose]

Did you hit it?

[MACH2NUMBER]

Newt,
You were obviously an hours hog. 'Farmer S' did over 2 hours, at high level, but absolutely nothing happened, like on most border patrols, and he diverted to Hanover I believe at the end of his mission, to get a few more minutes. I hope your 700 hours were not all flown at endurance speed!

[newt]

I was not an hours hog. I just flew whenever I was asked to do so. They were different times and I was a bachelor for most of my tour !

[CharlieJuliet]

F 6 - longest unrefuelled flight 2 hours 5 minutes and shortest 25 minutes indicating that the left hand controlled endurance!!

[EAP86]

I recall a pair of Saudi Lightnings having trouble landing at Tabuk because of a sandstorm in the early 80s. They stayed in the vicinity of the airfield with an engine shut down hoping for the storm to clear. It didn't clear so they pointed away from habitation and ejected. I think they managed something like 2 hrs 10 mins but I suspect the absence of a controlled landing prevented them from claiming the record :-)

EAP

[Minnie Burner]

They look horrible painted.

[pkam]

EAP
I was there at the time,I was chatting to my father in law to be outside the Lightning Sim, with a sandstorm on the horizon, we were surprised to see 4 jets launched. By the time I had legged it back to my abode viz was zero, just thick red sand. Two jets were talked down by the tower the other two refused the offer.Eventually the only option was Martin Baker. The reason for the whole thing? Brownie points for providing an escort for the local prince returning in his B707 from a shopping spree in Riyadh.

[Tankertrashnav]

They look horrible painted

Well maybe not horrible but nowhere near as good as the original (no) paint scheme. Same applies to the Vs which really looked the business in anti flash white but never looked quite so good in camo, or worse still in that horrible look the Victor K2s had acquired by the time of of GW1

[ACW342]

Wattisham 1970, Bomber Comm....oops Strike Command V Force dispersal exercise and three Vulcans inbound when it was realised that in order to get to the ORP they would have to taxy past the Q sheds.

Problem! MPBW (precursor to the DOE) had recently erected a VERY large sign to the side of the taxiway carrying a warning about the possible sudden appearance of two shiny jets crossing your path and that weren't going to stop for you. So what? well as I said the sign was VERY large and would not have permitted the passage of a Vulcan wing. As a result Baseball (SATCO) scrambled yours truly in Rover 1 to lay said sign flat in the grass. Again, and, in accordance with sods law, yet another problem. In their wisdom, MPBW had not only built two sockets for the signpost legs, they had concreted them in!

A quick call on Pye to inform the tower of such and a reply from Baseball (Sqn Leader Jack Harrild, a man much respected by the tower staff) ordering me, in no uncertain terms, to move the offending sign.

With the first Vulcan already streaming his brake chute and the other two not far behind, I used the largest signpost retrieval tool I could in the time available - Rover 1!

Apparently there was amazed and amused laughter in the tower when, having taken out one leg of the offending signpost, I had to execute a swift reversal in order to attack the second leg.

The day was saved. Three Vulcans defending the nation and ready to go within 4 minutes, 1 Land Rover radiator replaced and the charge of deliberately damaging one of her majesties vehicles dropped on the orders of SATCO.

[MPN11]

ISTR a similar 'panic obstacle clearance' at Waddo. Wasn't it the Britannia that only had about 10" clearance under the prop tips? And we were festooned with 12"+ snow flags all along the taxiway?

[Background Noise]

IWNOL, but wasn't the PEC on the other side?

[Thomas coupling]

Nutloose:

Where's the speedo in that cockpit?

Just watching the altimeter increasing as she went vertical @ Mach 1 would be enough to hypnotise most people - yuck what a claustrophobic environment.

[MPN11]

The famous dual-indicator strip 'speedo' at the top of the panel showing IAS and Mach on separate scales. The 2 scales moved independently, reflecting the change of Mach number with altitude.

Note 0,4, 0.5 etc. including finer graduations approaching M1.0 ;)


PS ... never on Lightnings, but I did have MS Flight Sim :)