Best airlines

[The Range]

Hi everybody,
I`ve only flown on European and U.S. airlines, so I couldn't have an opinion about Asian carriers, that I know are among the best.
So what would you, the most travelled ones, think are the best airlines in the world? Let's say the best five.

[Hotel Tango]

The problem is that it's all very subjective. Much depends on what type of product the judging traveler personally wants. I have flown (C Class) on a carrier which receives more than its fair share of criticism and always been happy with them, and I have flown a carrier which has received much acclaim and wondered why they are so revered. Not that they were bad, just that I found them to be no better than the other.

[PAXboy]

Your own cultural heritage and, thus, expectations plays an enormous part in this. On a trip last year my partner thought that the cabin crew looked askance at her when requesting a drink. Whether the CC did or did not cannot be known.

Further, on the trip out (in a world renowned carrier) in Premium Economy, she was in 777s and on the way back in 380s. She hated the first and loved the second. Same cabin layout and service? Or not?

[Another James]

Garuda now get my hard earned £££'s,ok i use their business class product and i always look forward to flying with them,i cannot say that for any other airline. sorry BA please add me to your churn list.

[Heathrow Harry]

Better service on almost every Asian airlines - outside the Sub-Continent - than ANY European or N American airline

In most countries being CC is a serious, well paid and respected job - in the USA or Europe it's.... not........ just Google rate sof pay v. National averages...............

Most CC in the West would make as much money flipping burgers - damn close to Minimal Wage

[crewmeal]

Would you fly with an airline whose cabin crew lived off pot noodles?

[easyflyer83]

Being cabin crew in Europe and the US is a serious job. Anedotally, crew from Asian countries are courteous and friendly with excellent customer service skills but can be very subservient and timid. In my opinion, that isn't great from a 'safety professional'.


Forgetting the current BA mixed fleet situation, the mixed fleet contract is exceptionally poor, I am not entirely sure why Joe Public regard cabin crew as being a poorly paid job. In most instances, that isn't the case.


I don't want to make out that crew make mega bucks (they don't) but even at the LCC I work for, the most junior full time crew member in the UK earns between 24K and 27K a year. Certain charter crew on long haul can earn more than that too when you take into account their allowances.


The fact is that the basic salary of cabin crew is often quite low but then flight pay (the pay associated with operating flights) is added plus commission (this can be lucrative at certain carriers) and by the end you can actually earn some good money. Put it this way, I have colleagues who could not earn the same amount at most other unskilled roles, and certainly not flipping burgers.


As a cabin manager on circa £32,000 I certainly could not and with a UK national average salary, being around 27K, it begs the question, why do people believe that cabin crew is such a poorly paid job?

[ExXB]

It really depends. Every journey is different.

[Heathrow Harry]

ExXB - not so sure

You might get a really good flight on a US airline trans-Atlantic but that's not soemthing you'd bet on these days

Fot long -haul the gulf airlines set a pretty high standard these days and so do the SE Asian ones.

Personally I'd say Singapore

[ZFT]

Being cabin crew in Europe and the US is a serious job. Anedotally, crew from Asian countries are courteous and friendly with excellent customer service skills but can be very subservient and timid. In my opinion, that isn't great from a 'safety professional'. Isn't this safety element of CC blown out of all proportion? What are the odds of anything happening (where the CC even have an influence) within an already unbelievably safe industry? Virtually zero..

Personally, I would rather have a high level of service with an acceptable level of safety as opposed to the "We are only here for your safety BS (i.e. there is no service) that is spouted on US and many European carriers.

I expect incoming for this view but it is my view!.

[HeartyMeatballs]

ZFT. A deeply offensive post aimed our hard working professional crews who work extremely hard to keep you safe. I suggest that if you show some respect you'll be shown respect.

Who is it who keep passengers safe, looking after them when they're ill, keeping them alive until the plane lands and medics can take over, who provides CPR, who utilises the defribulator and literally bring people back to life, who ensures the cabin is safe for departure and arrival, keeping the peace amongst rowdy pax, liaising with the flight deck on all issues safety related, fight fires in the cabin? And most importantly they try and stop morons evacuating with massive items of hand luggage.

We pilots merely get the machine from A to B. The real skills are behind the flight deck door dealing with cretins whilst still maintaining a smile.The cabin crew are equally as important as the flight crew. Without them them flight ain't going anywhere.

[Heathrow Harry]

bit harsh I feel..................

[Hotel Tango]

Married to a former F/A I appreciate their value other than being catering staff. However, even my wife has at times questioned the physical abilities of large overweight F/As (USA) and slim slender F/As (Asia).

[S.o.S.]

I have asked HeartyMeatballs to reconsider his hasty words. No one would deny that some staff appear to be ill suited to their task. But the forum does not permit wide ranging insults to Cabin Crew, leave alone direct attacks on other members.

[PAXboy]

On disembarking a long haul recently, I saw the First Officer of my flight and wondered how he fitted behind the yoke...

[HeartyMeatballs]

Fixed my post to make it less harsh. I find it deeply disappointing that someone can come in an insult an entire profession (a very important one) and it's me who ends up in the wrong for defending cabin crew. It is a shame that everyone seems happy for a poster to claim the crew are not important and are there to sell you pringles and nothing more than that. ZFT's post was deeply offensive yet s/he receives no feedback whatsoever particularly when s/he indicated that they expected to receive 'incoming' so they knew what they were saying would create a stir.

[S.o.S.]

Thank you HM. I realised too late to state that ZFT also got a notification from me.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Thank you SoS for clarifying that.

And for Meatballs' Final Thought: if any of you are flight crew as you share the same opinion as ZFT then please have a word with yourself. If not for you then change for the safety of passengers you're tasked with keeping safe.

G'night.

[easyflyer83]

Harsh or not, a big thank you to Heartymeatballs for sticking up for his colleagues at the other side of the flight deck door. What he said certainly resinated with me. Whether it was reflective of ZFT, I cannot say.

In actual fact, I do occasionally ponder whether cabin crew are actually primarily in a safety related role. I'm allowed to though because I am trained crew and i guess I know what I am talking about.

Each time I question whether i really am a safety professional I quickly realise that actually, I am. A lot of passengers believe that the safety role of cabin crew extends merely to the safety demonstration on a good day and an emergency on a bad day. But who do you think checks the inventory and serviceability of safety and emergency equipment? Who thoroughly searches an aircraft to maintain security? Who makes sure the cabin is 'secure' for take off and landing and prepared for an emergency/evacuation during these critical stages? Thats right, when we secure the cabin, we aren't making up rules and regs to make life hard for you. We are making sure that luggage is placed well under seats so that they don't fall into the aisle and exits, that laptops are stowed away so they don't become projectiles etc etc. Essentially making the cabin more survivable.

Who checks on the welfare of flight crew including training to deal with the incapacitation of one of them? Who ensures fire prevention through strict rubbish/gash collection, stowage and toilet checks?

Who is trained to spot three different types of icing on the wings and through their experience of working onboard an aircraft can actually identify any unusual noises, sensations and smells?

Who is trained to an high standard of first aid and tested on this regularly?

Those are all safety related duties and many of those duties are routine and not directly involved with an emergency or incident. When i rationalise this way and when I take my yearly exams and watch/read/listen to case studies on recurrent/refreshers where cabin crew have made a vital difference it hits home that we are indeed there primarily for safety and that makes me proud to do the job that I do.

There are crew blogs that get on their soap box and call us doctors/firefighters etc and I cringe at these. We are not, we are cabin crew and we have our own job specification and we do not need the specification of other careers. Equally, I cannot standby and not say anything when my job/profession is misinterpreted (putting it politely) by someone who doesn't know much about the role. Why? Because he isn't trained and ultimately, thats why you need cabin crew on board your flight in a safety capacity. If not, do you really think you would have crew at all in economy these days?

[ZFT]

HeartyMeatballs,
It was not meant to be offensive and I apologise if it came across as such. Also I’m sorry for getting you a ‘Yellow Card’ too.
My point (which seemed to get lost) was that this industry is now so safe that the safety aspect is being used as an excuse to lower service levels. Safety and service need not be mutually exclusive.

I don’t for one second undervalue the CC role with “Who is it who keep passengers safe, looking after them when they're ill, keeping them alive until the plane lands and medics can take over, who provides CPR, who utilises the defribulator and literally bring people back to life, who ensures the cabin is safe for departure and arrival, keeping the peace amongst rowdy pax, liaising with the flight deck on all issues safety related, fight fires in the cabin? And most importantly they try and stop morons evacuating with massive items of hand luggage”, but in over 50 years of very frequent traveling, none of the above have been personally experienced (that I’m aware off).
It is strange that the Asian carriers that typically provide excellent service may be derided on these forums for being subservient, less safety minded etc and yet no one seems to object to these comments or spring to their defense!

Anyway, as I don’t want a 'Red Card', I’ll back out of this topic now.

[PAXboy]

Well, here's an article that tells of the rubbish CC have to put up with. I know this kind of thing has been posted before but I think the article is good:
Diva demands and peeing on seats: Why flight attendants hate working in business class more than economy | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/flight-attendants-hate-business-first-class-passengers-cabin-crew-secrets-horror-stories-a7589246.html)

[rog747]

best airline was good old Palmair from Bournemouth nice crew hot meal comfy seat no hand baggage or excess bag charges nonsense - just plain old courtesy and smiles old fashioned style

[Hotel Tango]

rog747: reminds me flying a return trip from YEG to YZF with Canadian North a few years back (on a B737-200) and being very surprised to be served a hot meal both ways. They were only sectors of 1 hour and 25 minutes! The F/A was brilliant too. She was a real character.

[Heathrow Harry]

I really don't think I've ever uttered a "diva demand"..................

[Mr Mac]

The Range
For me it would be EK/SQ/LH/SWISS. I have never had an issue so far with these carriers and on the first two I think I must have bought a good chunk of one of their A/C over the years in fares. LH/Swiss just do what they say they do, with no big fan fair, but do go the extra mile with customer service when it has gone wrong in my personnel experience.


With regards the cabin crew debate I treat everyone as I would like to be treated myself, and having that attitude I have never yet come across any issues with cabin crew on any airline I have flown since I was a small unaccompanied child flying 1/2 way round the world for school. There have been times, notably with US carriers where I have had my patience and attitude tested, but have yet to snap. BA also seem to have taken on some of the cousins ways I have noted of late on my very infrequent trips with them.
The role of cabin crew is both safety and service, and for all the decrying of none western CC the girls and boys of the EK 777, which would no doubt be mixed crew from many nations, did a sterling job getting everyone out at DXB recently, so I do not think that is a valid point either.

[The Range]

Thanks, Mac

[Rush2112]

I almost always use SQ, economy for short haul and business for long haul. The service and professionalism of the crews is always impressive, despite some of the garbage behaviour displayed by some pax, particularly up the pointy end.

I have used EK, KLM, BA, CX, TG, MAS and GIA - GIA used to be bit of a joke in my Jakarta days but now it is pretty decent. KLM & BA I am sorry to say just were not as good on service or seat etc.

To the point about Asians being timid and subservient, that poster may not ever have been in a hawker centre in Singapore, or HK...

[easyflyer83]

Just an observation on a couple of EK flights where it was the western crew who had to intervene and be the ones to assert authority. Anecdotal maybe but it's what I found.
I never went to a Hawker Centre when I was last in Singapore but, as luck would have it, I'm off there tomorrow (on Holiday) and several other Asian Cities so I will be sure to take a look. Thanks for the tip.

[ExXB]

I recommend the Newton Circus (http://www.singapore-tourist-info.com/newton-circus-singapore.php) Hawker Centre. If you are in a small group often a hawker will approach you to find a table and get your food. All for a small fee, of course, but that way it's closer to a real restaurant.

Pity the Satay Club is no longer but, apparently, Lau Pa Sat (http://www.best-singapore-guide.com/Lau-Pa-Sat.html) is a good alternative. I haven't been there myself though.

[Andy_S]

It’s only a personal opinion, of course, but I’ve found Newton Circus to be overpriced and the vendors rather over assertive. Possibly because it’s popular with tourists?

As an alternative, consider Holland Village. It’s actually a few years since I was last there, but I found it a bit more relaxed. Or try Hong Lim Food Centre in Chinatown.

[pax britanica]

Asian cultural issues often appear on Pprune and it is true that while many appear meek and subservient thats not always the case -Chinese women or 'overseas' Chinese ie from SIN Malaysia etc are far from it when angered or no doubt if things get difficult.

And as mostly they fly in Asia thats fine-in Europe they might not cope too well with a late MAN-Ibiza but there are not too many trips like that in their backyard. best leave those to sharp tongued quick witted scouse women or the 'Yes I know I am attractive but I could break both your arms if needed' east Europeans on Ryan.

As to the roiginal question , I have not flown them for a while, but always really enjoyed MAS as they and the Thais seem to have more of a UK type sense of humour than on some carriers and as has been pointed out EK is a complete league of nations.

I really wonder if BA ,even with the super efficient 787 will mange to keep the smaller eatern routes going as they have basically already cut back to just major buisiness centres when Premium pax and their devotion to BA Avios makes up for alot

[easyflyer83]

As a side.... apart from the Northern Brit crew wanting to get home to see loved ones, DXB-MAN is hated amongst EK crew.... and presumably QR and EY too.

[Rush2112]

Wandering off topic onto Singapore hawker centres: the locals tend to leave Newton Circus to the tourists and go to Amoy Street or indeed Lau Pa Sat. Satay Street is now alongside LPS, they shut down Boon Tat St every evening at 6pm and set up tables and benches.

Never tried Holland Village so I cannot comment on that.

[Mr Mac]

Easyflyer 83
The comment about Man route being hated by EK crew seems a little strong, and at odds with my all too regular discussion with them. I do agree with you it is popular with northern based crew coming back to see family and friends. The one comment I do here is 1. Constantly running out of Tonic water ! 2. Flights usually quite full so work load higher than some routes.

[easyflyer83]

Just anecdotal comments from EK crew/ex EK crew I know. MAN flights, on all carriers, are generally very demanding. That is why MAN is generally top for charter/LCC's when it comes to onboard sales. MAN pax like a good drink and when it's comp then they particularly go mad for it. I was GB Airways crew at MAN carrying pax who, in the main, weren't typical BA pax and especially when they found out the drinks were comp, we didn't stop all the way down to the canaries and deep Med. Aswell as a lot of VFR, EK carry a lot of holiday makers and blue collar business travellers (oil riggers etc) ex MAN who I'm sure will keep the crew very busy.

Cheers for the Hawker tips. Sat in one as we speak.

[mftx7jrn]

I still think BA are a top class airline. Flew back Business from Calgary a few years back and it was exceptional. Regularly used to fly back BA PE from YYC when I was dipping into my own pocket and enjoyed that service too. American Business was not a patch on BA I found, but their customer service was second to none. I used to like BMI Mainline too for short trips. The only airline I actively avoid is Air Canada, not because of anything other than the seats in Economy- I just don't find them comfortable when flying LH (the seats in AC Business are much better though, as you would expect)!

[Piltdown Man]

Service is such a subjective thing there is no real answer. My father was no stranger to First Class, he was a regular flyer to the US, South Africa and the Far East. The thing he wanted was a big seat and to be left well alone. Every now and again he changed his mind. With BA & Virgin the CA's appeared to know what he wanted without him telling them so. But with some other carriers, mainly US ones, he was regularly bothered by people offering him things he didn't want. With Far Eastern carriers he felt constantly bothered to point of (kindly) asking them to leave him alone. No clues for guessing who he mainly flew with. He also used to tell me about the precious crud (my words) he used to share cabin space with. He was full of admiration for the CA's because these passengers are not nice. They are full of themselves and believe they are so important you must do everything they ask, no matter how perverse. Yet the CA's still remained calm and polite where a normal person would have removed their teeth.

Overall, it depends on what you call service. I'm like my father. I want a comfortable seat, the occasional meal and drink on a safe flight running on time. Simple really.

[Ignore the HUD]

Rarely fly long haul but did use Singapore Airlines to CHC via Singapore and was very impressed in economy. Think its cruel you have to pass through Business to get to Economy though!
I regularly fly to LHR from Germany so essentially its either LH or BA for me.
If I had to chose a the best one for me it would easily be LH. BA do too many things that niggle me but maybe I expect too much from them.:)

[thing]

I use Singapore for long haul, UK to Oz and can't fault them. Mostly economy but if we're feeling a bit flush we'll go business, which is excellent. Whichever way you look at it it's a long time sitting in (two) aluminium tubes but the CC are super and go out of their way for you every time.

[Andy_S]

....the CC are super and go out of their way for you every time.

It's been a few years since I flew SQ, but I was really impressed by the visibility of the Cabin Crew in economy. Throughout a 13 hour flight, they regularly (but discretely) patrolled the cabin to make sure everything and everyone was OK.

Do they stall have the snack bar in the galley for economy passengers?

[thing]

Do they stall have the snack bar in the galley for economy passengers?

They do indeed upstairs on the 380. I've never been downstairs so can't comment but I would imagine they have a similar set up.

[WHBM]

Completely subjective. I have always found BA fine although it seems to suffer a disproportionate percentage of nit-pickers as pax, and I have to say that BOB in Europe is a notable turnoff.

Accounts of BA cabin crew handling of emergencies (Las Vegas, YMMM, even the One-Eleven windshield failure) invariably show the most outstanding professionalism by the cabin crew, sometimes in notable comparison to incidents on the "fine service" operators. You can guess which combination I prefer.

[Another James]

Just back from Jakarta with Garuda.
Ok business class with my preferred window seat/table isle side,very private,very comfortable.
Excellent attentive cabin crew,very quiet cabin,food great,drinks excellent,great wifi (inclusive).Excellent for doing work.
15 hours up there but seemed much less.
If Ba had the same seats and offered a direct flight then i would give them a go,although i dont like the ba club world seats and prefer direct routes.
Going to JFK next month with Ba, club world. for some reason i cant work out why this 7 hour flight costs £765 more, that the above 15 hour flight,
Its my money so i like to get value.

[Sobelena]

i cant work out why this 7 hour flight costs £765 more

Supply and demand? Nothing to do with distance.

[PAXboy]

Indeed, the price is the maximum the market will bear. Changeable by the day/hour/minute if needs be.

[Mr Mac]

The Cabin ?
Has something changed at BA ? I have just had an interesting text
from a colleague in bound from the Far East on BA business class who as a BA woman passenger through and through said "that's it" flown with them as long as I have employed her +10 yrs . I do not know what they did but this girl is BA to the hilt (Dad was BOAC/ BA) and has not followed the example of the rest of my staff and moved carrier, so I will find out Monday, but she is /was frequent flyer, not sure level but high, as she does a lot of my leg work so I will see what happened. She has been more than tolerant in the past of what I would consider to be a show stopper, but as London based she has stuck with BA, but not for much longer it appears. Anybody else noted a drop off in quality as not now a regular BA user.

[Metro man]

London - New York is THE premium business route and business class fares are around 5X economy fares. Fly from a leisure or non business airport, or a route which carries low cost migrant labour, eg Manila - Kuwait, and business class can be had for around 3X economy fare.

Leisure routes are good value for using FF miles to fly in a premium cabin as it allows the airlines to burn off the miles in a seat that would otherwise be empty. Business routes are very poor value with few seats available and max miles being required as the airlines would rather sell these seats for money.

Supply and demand.

[crewmeal]

BA cut back on further frills causing dismay among staff | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4329830/BA-cut-frills-causing-dismay-staff.html)

Flowers yes but First snacks no way.

[WHBM]

Unfortunately Alex Cruz, current CEO at BA, never got the memo that he was heading up a mainstream business-oriented airline, and thinks he is still at Vueling.

[PAXboy]

You mean, WHBM, that they promoted someone from inside the Group? Rather than take the risk of hiring someone who understood the business? After all, if they had done that, the new CEO might have wanted to do things that the Board did not approve of. :rolleyes:

[Sygyzy]

To paraphrase Churchill; A modest (or reserved/retiring) man...he has much to be modest about.:(

[configsafenot]

Fave 5.......erm......well......Emirates, Qatar, Gulf Air, KLM and Singapore Airlines

Great food, well presented aircraft & staff (ground and cabin), always smiling even when they have a pax from hell on board

B(loody) A(wful) have alot to learn and til they learn it, I will still wish BCal was flying

[Andy_S]

Fave 5.......erm......well......Emirates, Qatar, Gulf Air, KLM and Singapore Airlines

It’s a long time since I flew on KLM. Maybe things have improved, but one thing I remember was how awful the food was. I’ve only ever had two genuinely inedible airline meals in my life; both on KLM, both in Business Class…..

[configsafenot]

KLM is not bad on the food, I like the amount of choice.....and its a dying breed, a full service airline and in all the years I have flown, so far not had anything served to me that was not edible or identifiable

One other airline I love flying with, mainly cos of the direct flights is Brussels Airlines, MAN to BRU simply cannot be beaten, brilliant little airline, great crews and some lovely special paintjobs too

[Mr Mac]

The cabin
My colleagues BA flight was "a challenging experience" her words, but she asked that I do not post anything, as she is taking it up with BA. Also as she also occasionally visits this forum she said she would post, if she felt the need to vent. All I will say is you would not believe it of "the worlds favourite airline".


Configsafenot
Mrs Mac also speaks highly of them as she used to use them on her regular trips to Vancouver, I have not flown with them for some years but also had a favourable view. I also liked the porcelain (Delft ?) houses you got, we must have a small village tucked away somewhere between us !

[SLF3]

Consensus in our (business class) office is Garuda / Singapore / Qatar. The order varies.

Personally, I also like Finnair and Iberia, but then I almost always take night flights and only care about the seat.

The BA supporters club has retired, and is not being replaced.