Charter vs. aircraft age

[ccajun]

Question for you 135 folks:

I'm looking into acquiring a Falcon 2000 / CL 604 size aircraft and want to offset costs with charter business. I don't want to buy a plane that can't be chartered. (And yes, I know it's always a losing proposition. Just trying to minimize the overall cost.)

So at what age does this type aircraft become a dog in the charter business?

Any comments appreciated.

[340drvr]

Don't know about any actual age number as a cutoff, but conventional wisdom would suggest the best way would be to look for an aircraft that's currently operating under 135, true for any size aircraft.

[ccajun]

340drvr-

I'm afraid I didn't phrase this question clearly. Let me try again.

As a charter customer I am comfortable with planes that are 2000 and newer, especially if the interior is updated and it equipped with wi-fi. That's just one data point though. What I want is to get an idea of where charter customers in general start to push back on chartering a plane because of the aircraft age.

[gbruton]

There is a operator at my airport that runs a 1983 CANADAIR LTD CL-600. and it is flying nearly everyday. They also have newer Challengers and a Gulfstream but the 83 gets a lot of time in the air.

I think for the most part charter clients do not inquire about aircraft age nor can/would they be able to really tell the difference between a 1983 or a 2017.

To most they just want to say they flew on a Gulfstream or show pictures of them in a large cabin jet. Just being honest.

[Monkey Boy]

In the US I think age is less of an issue, in Europe it's a little different.

[ccajun]

Gbruton - Thanks for this input. I would have thought a 600 would have a very small market. Then again my first charter was a Kingair C90 of comparable age and I thought it was great.

[ccajun]

Monkey boy -
I saw something to this effect on the web quite some time back but don't recall details.
Thanks

[x933]

US Market is a lot less age sensitive. Be realistic about your utilisation vs achievable utilisation with your crewing contingent, or go with an operator that can provide additional crew when required.

[Amadis of Gaul]

340drvr-

I'm afraid I didn't phrase this question clearly. Let me try again.

As a charter customer I am comfortable with planes that are 2000 and newer, especially if the interior is updated and it equipped with wi-fi. That's just one data point though. What I want is to get an idea of where charter customers in general start to push back on chartering a plane because of the aircraft age.
There are plenty of considerably older airplanes with fully updated interiors with WiFi, Satcom, and Krishna only knows what else, so age in this regard is not much of a factor really. For example (and I realize that this is a REALLY EXTREME example), would you have any problem being a passenger on this mid-70s bird?

Photos : Super-luxury private plane used by Qatar royal family is up for sale - NRICafe.com (http://nricafe.com/super-luxury-plane-qatar-royal-family/)

[ccajun]

Point taken, Amadis.

[ksjc]

Nice bidet on that Royal flight. First aircraft bidet I've seen. Very progressive.

[rick1128]

Most people would know the age of the aircraft they were in if it was placarded on the forward bulkhead. Cases in point are the MD80's currently operated by airlines like American. 30 years old and approaching 100,000 hours. I am currently flying a 38 year old Lear 35 with over 25,000 hours on it. And it flying just as well as the last 35 built.

As long as they are clean and well maintained (including paint and interior) people don't know or care how old they are.

Your biggest concern is making sure the aircraft will fly on a regular basis. To ensure that, you will need to find an aircraft that the market will support. A G650 out of Podunk, KY will not fly, as that is most likely a Seneca/King Air market. Each charter market has its own dynamic. One of the best way to find what it is, is to search a website like Flightaware.com and see what is going into and out of the market.

Two important factors to consider are reliability and support. While modern manufactured aircraft are reliable, as they get older the reliability decreases, some models faster than others. The biggest factor is manufacturer support. Check out the manufacturer reviews in Aviation Industry News. Some like Gulfstream get top notch reviews. This becomes more important as the aircraft gets older and the model is no longer produced.

Good luck.

[ChickenHouse]

In the US the age of a Falcon will only change the nature of your clients. You do have the advantage that GA is respected as common transportation, plenty of customer. Get a brand new aircraft, you get the rich and blinkyblinkies. Get a mid age aircraft and transport the notsopoors. Get an older aircraft and you get ordinary people, aviation enthusiasts and rich undercover.

Europe is different, in some countries at aircraft age 5 you start to get a problem and at 10 you are ready to sell to the US. Only few company whores fly older.

[Runaway Gun]

I've arranged charters in Europe, for some sporting hero types. I was quickly advised that if the jets I chartered were over three years old, then the customers would be mightily upset.
Status issues are about more things than watches and WAGs.