Captain UA455 removed from flight for "emotional meltdown"

[Dog Star]

Bad hair day?

?Emotional? Pilot Removed From SFO-Bound Flight After Bizarre Rant « CBS San Francisco (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/02/11/emotional-pilot-removed-from-sfo-bound-flight-after-bizarre-rant/)

[Chris2303]

I feel very sorry for the crew and passengers on this flight and hope that the Captain will be well supported by the employer.

[Blind Squirrel]

Such things happen, and always will as long as fallible humans are part of the equation. The problem, mercifully, was detected and appropriate action taken. I very much hope this unfortunate individual, who would be better served by our compassion than inappropriate attempts at "humour," will receive the help she needs.

[Lost in Saigon]

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnu6QSEt-m4

I wonder why she walked to the back of the aircraft after her "rant"?

[KelvinD]

What kind of uniform was that she wearing? Tee shirt and baseball cap?

[nevillestyke]

Statistically the safest place to be? :rolleyes:

[Hotel Tango]

Look on the bright side, she gave her passengers fair warning. Others, such as the Germanwings F/O, didn't!

[aterpster]

Whether a man or woman, this type of conduct renders a pilot unfit to be in our profession. I know, she needs help, and help she should get. Once fit again, she should be looking for a non-aviation profession.

[_Phoenix]

It was a long period of time, from the moment the crew enter the cockpit until they are ready for push-back. I wonder why the crew did not talk to the pilot, to convince her that she is not fit to fly. FO didn't stop her to become a national news.
At the end of the video, I think she realized what she did, then she went at the back of the plane to avoid staring eyes and cameras.

[wiggy]

Ready....well posted...

Pheonix....

It was a long period of time, from the moment the crew enter the cockpit until they are ready for push-back. I wonder why the crew did not talk to the pilot, to convince her that she is not fit to fly. FO didn't stop her to become a national news.

But do we know the definite timescale here.? Until we know what really happened we might want to cut the rest of the crew a bit of slack. Reading the article is it not just as possible that the captain wandered on, interacted with a few passengers face to face ( about her clothing) and then grabbed the PA handset ( from the news item it appears she's doing the PA from the cabin ) and started her rant ? In which case it is possible the poor FO might have been unaware what was going on at first and was possibly too busy having a WTF moment, followed by making calls to company, to have the time at least initially to indulge in counceling.

[_Phoenix]

Yes, theoretically it is possible, but the doors were armed (in video FA ask to disarm doors), then I guess there was some time between she entered the cabin and the doors closing.

[JW411]

I would imagine that the F/O was looking at the seniority list.

[Airbubba]

Whether a man or woman, this type of conduct renders a pilot unfit to be in our profession. I know, she needs help, and help she should get. Once fit again, she should be looking for a non-aviation profession.

I'm guessing she'll get a few weeks off with pay to sort out her 'life issues'. Then she will return to the line unless the feds somehow get involved and yank her medical in the post Germanwings era.

In other cases of bad judgment and public misbehavior, I've seen some of the familiar cards played as a mitigation strategy. United is by all accounts a progressive workplace and in addition to ALPA, she will probably have one or two demographic advocacy groups on her side.

It's very hard to get fired as a union pilot for a major U.S. airline these days. A few people do succeed though. :ugh:

An account of the episode from the Austin, Texas newspaper:

Pilot removed from Austin flight after reports of strange behavior

Nicole Barrios Austin Community Newspapers Staff
10:11 p.m Saturday, Feb. 11, 2017 Local News

A United Airlines pilot was removed from an Austin to San Francisco flight Saturday evening, a spokesman for United Airlines confirmed.

United Airlines spokesman Charlie Hobart confirmed that the pilot was removed from United Airlines Flight 455.

“We hold our employees to the highest standards and we removed that pilot from that flight,” he said. “We brought in a new crew and they operated that flight.”

The pilot boarded the flight dressed in regular clothes, he confirmed.
According to multiple reports on Twitter from passengers, the pilot went on a “rant” about her divorce and the presidential election, and also began crying.

Randy Reiss, a passenger on the flight, tweeted about the flight and described the situation as scary. On Twitter, Reiss said the pilot told those on board that she was going through a divorce and began crying during the incident.

Reiss told the Statesman via Twitter that he believed the pilot was not in “the mental space today to take that on.”

A video uploaded to YouTube today appears to show a portion of what the pilot said to passengers.

In the video, the pilot is seen saying: “Don’t worry, I’m going to let my co-pilot fly it (the airplane). He’s a man,” she said.

“If you don’t feel safe, get off the airplane. But otherwise, we can go,” the pilot told passengers over the intercom.

After that comment, a man in the video appears to get up and request to get off of the airplane.

The pilot is then seen asking passengers if she offended them.

The flight was scheduled to depart Austin-Bergstrom International Airport at 5:02 p.m., according to KVUE News.

The flight’s departure was delayed for about two hours due to the incident, Hobart said.

“We removed her from the flight, (and) we’re going to discuss this matter with her,” he said. “We were looking out for our customers to get them to where they needed to be.”

Pilot removed from Austin flight after reports of strange behavior (http://www.statesman.com/news/local/pilot-removed-from-austin-flight-after-reports-strange-behavior/v6eFTLZ1JHRHfIsAb2wQAL/)

[Arw82]

I really feel for this pilot. She must have been in an awful place to bahave like this and I'm guessing its totally out of character. Hopefully she can get over this episode and continue flying.

[canyonblue737]

Avw82: I feel for the pilot and her personal life and how it will be affected but I'd caution at being quick to ever let her fly again. This isn't an episode of depression or a bad day, this is a mental break that nearly all will never experience in their life no matter the circumstances so something is clearly wrong with the individual and the safety of the flying public and fellow employees has to be guarded. The biggest indicator this can happen again is that it has happened the first time. Sad situation.

[RealUlli]

I guess she went through the IMSAFE checklist a bit too publicly.

IMHO, she should have called in sick. However, doing it in this way, she's practically guaranteed to get proper help.

[Murexway]

It's very hard to get fired as a union pilot for a major U.S. airline these days. A few people do succeed though. As a former union rep at a major carrier I agree. But this captain might have just managed to do so with this one.

Although, JetBlue wasn't union at the time, you might remember the captain who got locked out of his own cockpit inflight due to a scary rant. He'll apparently never fly again, since the judge who released him in 2012 stipulated that he never again try to regain his license.

[aterpster]

Murexway:

If UAL plays their cards right, they won't terminate her provided she go under the care of a psychiatrist jointly agreed to by ALPA and the company. Further, that she signs a release that at the end of therapy the psychiatrist will advise the company, ALPA, and the FAA whether she is fit to be issued an FAA medical certificate.

The chances of the psychiatrist giving her the thumbs up will be about zero, so then she is terminated because of lack of certification, or medically retired, depending on the provision of the UAL/ALPA CBA.

[aterpster]

Airbubba:

I'm guessing she'll get a few weeks off with pay to sort out her 'life issues'. Then she will return to the line unless the feds somehow get involved and yank her medical in the post Germanwings era.

Too much publicity for that. That alone has already provided notice to the FAA. UAL may be "enlightened" but there are safety and significant legal issues if she is returned to duty without a full workup.

[RoyHudd]

The assumption is that a pilot is a man, unless otherwise specified. That's normal human parlance. There are vastly more male pilots operating airliners. Statistics. Do we have to get bothered about a relatively insignificant gender terminology issue, when the glaring issue was a mentally disturbed pilot intending to operate? And she talked about PF being a "MAN". Should the nitpickers have mentioned that too?

[IBMJunkman]

How did she get onto the plane? I thought the pilot and co-pilot had to go to a place to get weather info and plan the flight. Is that done in street clothes?

[Chronus]

Gender cannot be an issue, it could happen to anyone these days. Had the captain and first officer both been gay and both madly in love with the same gay flight attendant, who was also on the flight, who had ditched them both for another gay flight attendant who was also on the same flight, and all the pax were gays on their way to a gay convention, the issue of gender discrimination would not have arisen and no journalist worth his salt would have written a bean about all that wobble been thrown on board and we would have had nothing to talk about on this forum, would you not agree.

[Deep and fast]

Mentioned the other pilot was a man and ranted politics with Clinton and trump. Sounds like an anti man feminist rant. Hubby probably cheated and got caught leading to divorce.
The real problem is not calling time on work instead of washing your dirty clothes in public.
Like it or not, she's toast.

[pax britanica]

I feel very sorry for the lady as she obviously worked very hard to become a UAL captain in the first place and people do have emotional overloads, like it or not hormonal imbalances can amplify those for the fair sex more than men sometimes.

A few things puzzle me
1 Only 20 Pax tried to contact UAL about it
2 How on earth , with all the security today, did she get on board sans uniform, said garment normally festooned with Corporate logo, rank stripes various IDs and passes
3 No one in crew room, crew bus, despatch, etc etc saw any odd behaviour

Bizarre incident all round, comments about Trump and Hilary though would suggest that she is certainly not wholly insane

[Hotel Tango]

How on earth , with all the security today, did she get on board sans uniform

That's because you obviously don't know how it works in the USA. I won't go into detail but simply say that with company I/D she can make it to the gate, even in civvies. As for crew room, crew bus etc. etc., she may have well gone straight to the gate.

[West Coast]

At my airline in the US the policy differs dependent upon the location, some crew rooms/ops you can access in civies, others you can't. Dependent upon the airport.

[aterpster]

A uniform is not required by FAA regulations.

[ehwatezedoing]

Mentioned the other pilot was a man and ranted politics with Clinton and trump. Sounds like an anti man feminist rant. Hubby probably cheated and got caught leading to divorce.
The real problem is not calling time on work instead of washing your dirty clothes in public.
Like it or not, she's toast.

Your "final" report is missing Taf and Metar.

:rolleyes:

[West Coast]

aterpster

A uniform is not required by FAA regulations.



To access areas of the SIDA it is per certain airports.

[Herod]

I have had a breakdown. Although it seems to have happened in the air, it wasn't apparent until long after landing, and no, I never flew again. THIS IS AMENDED, SINCE I REALISE THAT IT IS IN POOR TASTE, READING SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE COME AFTER.

[West Coast]

Of your own choosing?

[Herod]

West Coast. If you're asking about my breakdown, no, not of my own choosing. Loss of licence medically, and the hoops to get it back were too much. I figured that even if I did, the stress of the job would probably bring it back. Luckily I was 57 when it happened, and a good pension kicked in at 60, so it was survivable.

[Murexway]

I read the comments of one passenger who stated that she was wearing flip-flops. I can't imagine an agent letting the working captain down the jetbridge dressed like that. Apparently it was an A-319. Was this a mainline crew? If so, she must be SFO based.

[chimbu warrior]

Whether a man or woman, this type of conduct renders a pilot unfit to be in our profession. I know, she needs help, and help she should get. Once fit again, she should be looking for a non-aviation profession.

A little early to be judging I would suggest. Until all the facts are known, the reasons for this meltdown cannot be assumed.

I'd also hope that the issue is/was temporary, as the road to a left seat at a US major is long, and this pilot has already invested heavily in their career. To automatically exclude someone from the cockpit without knowing all the facts is a fairly harsh judgement.

[Hotel Tango]

I can't imagine an agent letting the working captain down the jetbridge dressed like that.

How would they know she is the "working" captain? She could be dead heading on the jump seat for all they know. Crews are dead heading all the time in the USA.

[aterpster]

West Coast:

To access areas of the SIDA it is per certain airports.

No doubt about that. But, she got to the airplane and at that point was not in violation of any operating regulation for not being in uniform.

[ExSp33db1rd]

There have been plenty of recent examples of male pilots having a breakdown in the cockpit

Horses for Courses. When I experienced a divorce in mid-career, a sympathetic Management offered me time off, no doubt thinking along present day lines, but I refused on the grounds that whilst my personal life appeared to be going out of control, my job was the one stable thing that I had command of, and enjoyed, and to be denied that as well would have really sent me into depression.

Commensense prevailed, I wouldn't want to have to fight the Huggy Fluffies of today.

[Airbubba]

I read the comments of one passenger who stated that she was wearing flip-flops. I can't imagine an agent letting the working captain down the jetbridge dressed like that. Apparently it was an A-319. Was this a mainline crew? If so, she must be SFO based.

Yep, she was wearing flip-flops as you can see in this picture from Twitter, I've had colleagues show up for international deadheads in similar attire:

https://twitter.com/undeadsinatra/status/830566959045545985/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[flite idol]

Sad situation. Unfortunately had she been allowed to become airborne and the gravity of the situation she had created subsequently became apparent to her, then her mental state may have then deteriorated even further. Obviously a lady under great stress and hopefully she will be treated with respect and will get the help she requires.

[tsgas]

the way that she is dressed would be suitable for driving a cab

[Airbubba]

She was divorced in 2015 after 28 years of marriage. :(

I would imagine that the F/O was looking at the seniority list.

She's been with United since the late 1980's according to my sources. That would put her in the early EEOC hires with the Frasca trainer interview at Stapleton.

She's 54 with a daughter and a son from the marriage and lives near Sacramento. Her father flew for Pan Am back in the glory days and her son is in Air Force flight training.

the was that she is dressed would be suitable for driving a cab

I would suggest that grooming and uniform standards have not been consistently enforced for females at U.S. airlines. Any comment on appearance or hairstyle can be spun into a harassment claim from what a male supervisory pilot told me a few years ago. He seemed to speak from experience.

Anyway, she was in civilian clothes. But I still wouldn't wear flip-flops to work, even to check my crew mail, much less to command an airliner. I've sure had to find a phone booth to change into a uniform a time or two over the years when I was a commuter.

Some ops manuals I've used actually do have a procedure for operating a revenue flight in civilian attire with authorization. Don't know about United.

[parabellum]

My last employer insisted that all positioning flights were in uniform, solved any potential problems regarding choice of civilian clothes and kept the crew sober!

[gtseraf]

this incident raises the question of personal health and a company's REAL attitude towards it, not the fluffy "we'll look after our staff" PR spin.

I'm not referring to UAL, don't know how they would treat this. There are many people out there who expect that there employer would suspend them immediately, without pay and would make every effort to terminate them asap, rather than work together to find a mutually acceptable solution.

This leads to situations where pilots are flying when they should not be.

Before anyone shoots me down, not all employees have the luxury of union representation or a sympathetic management.

[Gusz]

How would they know she is the "working" captain? She could be dead heading on the jump seat for all they know. Crews are dead heading all the time in the USA.
Gate agents are supposed to check id's. They know who the operating crew is.

[bluesideoops]

you mean there are human beings at the pointy end of the plane and that they can suffer from mental illness (stress, anxiety, depression, PTSD etc..) how can that even be possible?! surely these pilots are infallible demi-gods?! and that folks is what is wrong with our industry and regulators the world over. A total failure to recognise the weakness of the human condition and to accept that pilots are just as likley to suffer from the same mental health issues as the general populus (1:3 get depression and or other mental illnesses). Pilots under pressure not to put the hand up and get the help they need due to Company pressure (loss of job) or Regulator pressure (loss of licence/medical) so they either seek private help below the radar and keep it hidden or soldier on without help and have a total meltdown or drive it into the ground. There are some good, caring companies and some good regulators that are being proactive in this area but the balance is far too much towards the other end and its very worrying. Before anyone beats me up, I'm just stating some facts here - it's a very complex and emotive issue and I don't really know what the solution is but the status quo is a 'swamp' which is a breeding ground for these types of incidents to continue. The fact is, and anyone who has held a medical certificate on this thread knows, it is very easy to hide these kinds of problems from an AME and with an unforgiving industry and regulatory environment, where loss of licence and career is likely, there is a great incentive to do so. We don't need 'loonies' up front that can potentially crash an aircraft and kill all on board but at the same time, we need an industry and regulatory environment that can have a 'grown-up' discussion and come up with some real solutions to these problems.....

[flite idol]

Very well said bluesideoops.

[vapilot2004]

What kind of uniform was that she wearing? Tee shirt and baseball cap?


First thing I noticed. Who was that person on the IC and how did she access airside?

[stilton]

Shame she took her issues to work so publicly but my heart goes out to her, I can empathise and I hope she gets the help she needs.


Divorcing after 28 years is brutal, I know from personal experience.

[CurtainTwitcher]

There are peer assistance groups that offer confidential assistance to pilots PAN - Peer Assistance Network (https://panaircrew.org/), with some basic info & resources and info on the page.

This model is quite successful and has been going since the early 90's. The only person who truely understands all the pressures and medical licensing issues is another pilot, not involved with the union, management or regulator on a strictly confidential basis.

PM me for info.

[Deep and fast]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep and fast View Post
Mentioned the other pilot was a man and ranted politics with Clinton and trump. Sounds like an anti man feminist rant. Hubby probably cheated and got caught leading to divorce.
The real problem is not calling time on work instead of washing your dirty clothes in public.
Like it or not, she's toast.
Your "final" report is missing Taf and Metar.



Companies are heartless bar stardians that why I made this comment.
If more compassion existed in business there would be less fatigue, less mental health issues, less divorce, less etc etc.
But the heartless kings, the accountants are running the show now.

[Uplinker]

Heartfelt sympathy to this person. Divorce is really horrible, and stress is easy to miss, believe it or not.

The really sad thing is that she did not feel that there was anyone she could talk to: Her Union, her manager, her HR department, her occupational health office, her AME, her doctor.

Companies need to understand that the way they are running airlines these days is leading to vastly increased stress on aircrew's lives. Therefore, there needs to be some way that an employee can talk to a suitably trained person if need be - and be listened to confidentially and sympathetically. That person doesn't necessarily need to be the person's manager - they could be the source of the stress - so there needs to be other people in a company that a person could go to and talk to confidentially.

I went to my doctor after having not done very well in a SIM once. I told him I didn't know what was wrong with me and why I was performing so badly. He asked me some questions and then on the spot, he signed me off work for two weeks for stress. I had no idea that I was even stressed.

.

[Piltdown Man]

Man or woman, we all need our hands holding at some time. Maybe her problem was that she couldn't find anyone to talk to. Someone who would listen to her and tell her not to go to work until she gets a few things sorted. The thing is she cared enough about her passengers to tell them she was having a problem. It is just a shame for her that she lost the plot when she did.

What is clear is that whatever processes and procedures they have to support pilots before they get this far did not work in her case. As for the future, we will now see how good her employer and union are when they work together to get her back onto the straight and narrow. I truly hope she is given the help she needs and is able to get back to work in the near future, if that is what she wants.

[framer]

Companies need to understand that the way they are running airlines these days is leading to vastly increased stress on aircrew's lives
Ain't that the truth.
I think that sleep disruption exacerbates any other problems that are common in people's private lives. We have more sleep disruption now in Airline flying than ever before.

[IcePack]

Trouble is it is now the norm to self posn into your base. A well known airline in the U.K. Even has someone positioning in from Vancouver prior to operating along haul sector which frankly is a joke. Plenty position in from France.
Until pilots stop shooting themselves in the foot. (Complaining about fatigue & rostering whilst the above continues) Not much is going to change & more incidences of " burn out" will occur.

[wiggy]

Plenty position in from France.

Going slightly off topic but please, not that old one chestnut again - take a look at the map...my door to door journey from France to LHR is probably less in time and distance than that of people who commute by road or train from Manchester, Leeds etc, and I don't do any of the driving. Knowing our lot if they forced everybody to live in Longford they would then go to EASA/CAA and ask for approval for longer FDPs.

Back on topic, we need need to be aware of stress, and things like sleep issues creeping up on people but I don't think it's something that can be solved by increasing the number of rules in the rule set....as PM said: "Man or woman, we all need our hands holding at some time. Maybe her problem was that she couldn't find anyone to talk to." and I absolutely agree. I've certainly seen a couple of male colleagues who have come unglued due stress, and we as a group can be awfuly bad at asking for assistance when we need it....

I for one wish the lady a speedy and full recovery.

[pax britanica]

Wiggy
Commuting to LHR in the rush ours is probably easier from France than Camberley Maidenhead Amersham and numerous other common aircrew locations in UK (ok a bit tongue in cheek I know)

I will go back to my original point that i am surprised at the lack of empathy some ehre show for someone who could hardly be more 'one of your own' as flight crew with generations either side of her involved with flying and her clearly ahving had a fine career up to date. If those attitudes are fairly common in the US pilot community (and I am not saying they are) then it is hardly surprising the poor woman 'lost it' with a divorce after all that time god alone knows what the fiancial consequences might have been and maybe she saw herself facing some fiancial hardship close to the end of her career as a result along with all the other stresses.

As for crews pitching up in casual clothes,operating crew not being gate checked etc, it seems completely out of step with all the so called security checks claimed for pax and crew these days .

Anyway I think it is above everything a very sad story and speaks volumes for the increasing heartless species Homo Sapiens has become

[Petercwelch]

Great sympathy for her. Divorce after long marriage a huge stressor. Wish there were some good reliable solution foe her and United. Unfortunately, best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Impossible to know if such could or would ever happen again to this woman. Thoughts and prayers are with her and what sounds like a fine family.

[Hotel Tango]

Gusz said:

Gate agents are supposed to check id's. They know who the operating crew is.

Yep sure, the emphasis being on "supposed". Having seen it at first hand more than once, things can get a little lax at times, especially on domestic flights and when the gate agents are busy dealing with multiple pax at the gate desk.

[Reverserbucket]

Divorce after long marriage a huge stressor
Divorce after any length of marriage is a huge stressor.

[pax britanica]

It was being lax about security on domestic flights that lead to 9-11 ,

[Herod]

Divorce after any length of marriage is a huge stressor.

Yep. My first was after 18 years, and as someone said earlier, the job helped keep my sanity. Not so lucky with the second. The absolute is imminent, after 26 years, and with no job to take the strain, it's not easy. Good luck to the lady, and any others of you out there who are stressing.

[Hotel Tango]

It was being lax about security on domestic flights that lead to 9-11

I would dispute that tbh. Certain items were not restricted at that time, nor were FD doors required to be locked. I may be wrong, but no regulations at that time would have prevented 911. Much changed after that event.

[lambourne]

Companies are heartless bar stardians that why I made this comment.
If more compassion existed in business there would be less fatigue, less mental health issues, less divorce, less etc etc.
But the heartless kings, the accountants are running the show now.

What do you want the companies to do? Have an annual psych eval for pilots? The unions would be up in arms. This issue is combination of protectionism from the unions where their mantra is "no pilot needs to be psych tested regularly " to the companies not wanting to push the issues lest we find out publicly that a large % of pilots have been flying with mental issues bad enough to ground them. That would look smashing the Daily Mail and New York Post headlines.

I have sat next to guys that would keep a team of psychiatrists busy for a week. Ask them if they've considered getting help and they insist they don't have a problem, everyone else in the world is the problem. Have a quick chat with the office and while they know very well the person in question they don't want to take the first step to intervene. Pro standards sees the same people over and over,yet they only want a group hug. It is the elephant in the room up until they show up in civvies and flip flops and crater their career.

The Southwest Captain that took the plane from the FO below 200' and collapsed the nose gear was reported in the NTSB investigation to have been one of the most highly "avoid pairing with" Captains at Southwest. The company had the data but chose not to engage. Her peers were speaking with their bids and directly to the office but it fell on deaf ears.

Unions and management need to advocate adding psychological screening added to the medical. There are far too many future cases out there to keep sweeping mental health under the rug.

[cwatters]

Some of the comments in this thread show a lack of understanding of how stress and a lack of sleep can effect normal people like you. You don't have to have a permanent mental illness to have an episode like this, it can happen to anyone.

I worked with someone for several years who appeared very much in control of their lives and was an outstanding employee. Then one day someone said something relatively harmless and their world fell in. It turned out that they had more going on in their lives then we knew about. A sympathetic employer, a bit of counselling and a break from work and they were back to normal again.

The professionals were keen to point out that the person was no more prone to a recurrence than any other employee. They pointed out that if employers fire people that have such an event then others are less likely to seek help when they find themselves in a similar situation.

[tsgas]

a lot of UA Capt's have had multiple divorces and have never done anything like this. Rule #1 is that when a pilot is under severe stress it is their professional responsibility to walk away from the flight. Your personal life takes a back seat to your responsibility that you have towards the pax. This incident puts a black stain on the profession.

[Murexway]

How would they know she is the "working" captain? She could be dead heading on the jump seat for all they know. Crews are dead heading all the time in the USA.As a retired major US passenger airline Captain, I know a couple of things about USA airline procedures.... The agent knows if there's a jumpseat rider. The agent has to assign all seats (including the jumpseats) in the computer, for weight and balance if nothing else. Even presuming that the FO pulled up the paperwork, the agent(s) know who is working the flight. Regardless of whether the captain showed up and boarded with the rest of the crew, or boarded late, the agent knows who's going down the jetbridge and where they're sitting... including the Captain's chair.

[Hotel Tango]

Jolly good Murexway. If you're sure that's the case then the question asked of how the Hell did she get that far becomes valid.

[Murexway]

Well, I'm not saying that agents are infallible. They're "supposed" to know who's in which seats and have some idea of who's going down the jetbridge, including crewmembers. But I noticed that United has a current opening for a part-time customer service rep in AUS. The agents are certainly overworked and underpaid. That opening specifies that the agent must be capable of lifting boxes, etc weighing 70 pounds. It's not unheard of that a single agent might be working a narrowbody flight, and if the door was open, this captain could have simply walked down the jetbridge without the agent noticing. So I'm not trying to blame the agent; just saying that the agent should have had some clue that the captain didn't look like a "normal" captain (no pun).

[Murexway]

Apparently the agent tried to stop her from boarding:

The pilot boarded the afternoon flight at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport a bit late — wearing a ball cap and casual clothes.

Straight away, she appeared to get into an argument with crew members at the front of the plane.

From his seat near the back, Chris Moore figured at first that she was just another San Francisco-bound flier. “I thought she was a first-class passenger, complaining,” he told The Washington Post. “Then she grabs the mic.”

Another passenger told Reuters that the pilot asked for a vote on “whether we should have her change into her uniform.”

The passengers gave her a pass. Many found her request endearing, at first.
Randy Reiss, on his way home to San Francisco after a family funeral, was one of them.

“United has always, for me, been a very straight, corporate airline,” he said. “It seemed very friendly, nice, cutesy.”
“Then she said, ‘Sorry, I’m late. I’m going through a divorce.’ And I thought: Uh oh.”

Standing in front of the cockpit, the pilot kept talking over the intercom. Her speech veered into a string of non-sequiturs, and the mood in the cabin turned from cozy to uncomfortable, to worse.

The pilot pointed out two passengers at the front of the plane and noted their race — one black, one white — for reasons that were clear to no one.

The pilot touched on recent politics.
“She’s like ‘I don’t care if you voted for Trump or Clinton. They’re both [expletive],”

“Okay, if you don’t feel safe, get off the airplane, but otherwise we can go,” the pilot said, still sounding cheerful in the video as the first of her passengers began to revolt.

“Disarm the doors,” a flight attendant said.

“She’s not mentally fit to fly,” Reiss remembered telling an attendant as he waited for the door to open, he said. The attendant gave him a knowing look, he recalled, but replied, “She’s been cleared to fly.”

Still watching the drama from his seat, Moore told The Post, he saw an off-duty pilot call the pilot over and try to calm her down — to no avail.

She returned to the microphone and “did more talking,” Moore said. “I think she went into the cockpit.”

He decided to follow Reese toward the exit. So did many other passengers — at least 50, Moore

When she changed the subject to the plane’s imminent takeoff, Reiss began to shake, and another passenger began videotaping the drama.

Reiss was the first to evacuate. He got out of his seat, collected his bag and asked the flight crew to let him off.

He heard one flier yell “Stop!” at the pilot. Others were crying as they streamed back to the terminal.

When he cleared the jet, Moore said, even a gate agent was crying.
The agent told him that she had tried to stop the pilot from boarding, he said, quickly realizing that “the lady was unstable.”

“People were pleading … ‘Please call security,'” he said. “I’m wondering, if we didn’t do something, if the plane was going to take off.”

United Airlines did not respond when The Post asked that question. Nor did the airline say who the pilot was, what became of her, or what policies were in place that had cleared her to fly.

Reiss confirmed that a new pilot took the jet to San Francisco — about 90 minutes behind schedule, though other passengers rebooked through Houston.

Before he re-boarded, Reiss said, he watched police walk the pilot back through the airport. The pilot apologized and hugged him before they parted, he said. She offered to write a book with him.

[b1lanc]

uplinker,
Couldn't agree more and perhaps couldn't even talk to her family.

I'd also ask if the Continental merge is a contributor. I've heard a number of UAL crew openly complaining about having to adjust to the Continental culture which they entirely dislike.

[Airbubba]

It was being lax about security on domestic flights that lead to 9-11 ,

I would dispute that tbh. Certain items were not restricted at that time, nor were FD doors required to be locked.

Actually, cockpit doors were locked in the U.S. for years before the 9-11 attacks.

Divorcing after 28 years is brutal, I know from personal experience.

a lot of UA Capt's have had multiple divorces and have never done anything like this.

I'd also ask if the Continental merge is a contributor. I've heard a number of UAL crew openly complaining about having to adjust to the Continental culture which they entirely dislike.

I think one or two of us here have experienced divorce, airline mergers and airline bankruptcy. And other life events like the death of a family member.

Like other crewmembers who show up unfit for duty, she is one of us and she needs help. And we must continue to make sure that these colleagues don't fly the plane when they are unwell.

I can think of maybe three cases of these 'emotional outbursts' from coworkers over the years but none were in public. All three pilots kept their jobs as far as I know.

I'm not sure how the Continental culture could be blamed, change is part of any job I would think. And we all talk here and elsewhere about the good old days and how we did it at Brand X. A friend from Continental moans about what a good airline they had until United came along and messed everything up. And, the perfect merged seniority list is the one where everybody is unhappy. ;)

And, if this woman never flies again she's had a better career than many of us. She was hired by United in her 20's as a 747 flight engineer, went to right seat on the 737 and DC-10 and has been in the left seat most of her career on the 727 and A320.

A year ago she tweeted: May quit [flying] for real job (comedian). No joke.

[JumpJumpJump]

Has anybody considered the chance that she boarded in uniform (and maybe even flew a leg) only to land, turn on her phone and see a series of messages from her Husband (or from friends showing evidence of infidelity) in which case she offloaded herself, got changed in the toilet so as not to be seen crying walking throgh the terminal in uniform and as she passed the intercom she snapped? Is that realitic? Seems more likely than making it through security dressed as she is. Baseball haps are good for hiding tears

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Poor thing.

Divorce isn't that devastating - and certainly not something a SANE pilot should get into meltdown over.

If she can't take the strain she should be nowhere near a commercial aircraft - and that's for her to determine as we all have to day-to-day.

I visit to a shrink is definitely required, rest, and maybe a rethink of her career options.

[Herod]

Divorce isn't that devastating - and certainly not something a SANE pilot should get into meltdown over.

Can I take it from that, you have never been divorced? I didn't get into meltdown, but that doesn't prove I'm sane.

[Murexway]

Has anybody considered the chance that she boarded in uniform (and maybe even flew a leg) only to land, turn on her phone and see a series of messages from her Husband (or from friends showing evidence of infidelity) in which case she offloaded herself, got changed in the toilet so as not to be seen crying walking throgh the terminal in uniform and as she passed the intercom she snapped? Is that realitic?About as realistic as little green men invading her mind and making her do weird things. Supposedly, she divorced in 2015.

[lambourne]

Has anybody considered the chance that she boarded in uniform (and maybe even flew a leg) only to land, turn on her phone and see a series of messages from her Husband (or from friends showing evidence of infidelity) in which case she offloaded herself, got changed in the toilet so as not to be seen crying walking throgh the terminal in uniform and as she passed the intercom she snapped? Is that realitic? Seems more likely than making it through security dressed as she is. Baseball haps are good for hiding tears

To help dispel this "thought". It was the first leg after an overnight in AUS. She flew three legs the day prior.

[JumpJumpJump]

Thought dispelled, I read the rest of page four. :)

[Murexway]

Yep. My first was after 18 years, and as someone said earlier, the job helped keep my sanity. Not so lucky with the second. The absolute is imminent, after 26 years, and with no job to take the strain, it's not easy. Good luck to the lady, and any others of you out there who are stressing.
Not any more fun the second time.... Good Luck

[JammedStab]

She's been with United since the late 1980's according to my sources. That would put her in the early EEOC hires with the Frasca trainer interview at Stapleton.


And, if this woman never flies again she's had a better career than many of us. She was hired by United in her 20's as a 747 flight engineer, went to right seat on the 737 and DC-10 and has been in the left seat most of her career on the 727 and A320.
Sounds like another affirmitive action winning hire.

Remember the Fedex DC-10 crash with their equivalent hire.

I know...I'm the bad person.

[Airbubba]

Sounds like another affirmitive action winning hire.

Well, she was hired at a time when United was under the gun from a 1976 court decree in a case filed by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, a 'diversity' agency of the federal government.

United had committed to a 'double quota' hiring strategy to increase diversity and was sued in 1988 by the EEOC for not being compliant with the earlier ruling:

In a motion filed with Senior U.S. District Court Judge Hubert F. Will, the EEOC charged that United failed to hire minority and female pilots at twice the percentage of qualified applicants, as it had agreed to do in 1976.

An EEOC spokesman said that if 10 percent of pilot applicants in a given year were women, United had agreed that 20 percent of the applicants hired would be women.

The agency contends that the selection criteria that United used discriminated against blacks, other minorities and women.

The EEOC is asking for job offers, back pay and retroactive seniority for those not hired, said the spokesman. In addition, it wants sanctions to force the airline to comply with the decree in the future.

Eeoc Hits United Hiring Plan - Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-09-13/business/8801300011_1_entry-level-pilots-pilot-applicants-minorities)

As a result of the 1988 suit, United accelerated diversity hiring and adjusted requirements to more aggressively promote inclusivity. Separate interview programs were set up at the old Stapleton airport offices for so called 'EEOC' class (a legal term from an earlier lawsuit) applicants.

Technical knowledge tests were abandoned since some groups did poorly due to cultural bias and lack of educational opportunities.

The skills evaluation ride was no longer given in an airliner sim because that gave people with large plane flying experience an unfair advantage. Instead a little Frasca trainer desktop box with a Cessna type panel was used for the evaluation.

Pilot hiring manager Nancy Stuke published separate sets of average experience levels of successful EEOC and non-EEOC applicants.

Inevitably, some folks with very low experience levels were hired in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Of course, we all started somewhere and after a few thousand hours, you either get it or you don't.

I believe the captain in this incident probably had at least a few hundred hours of flight time, much of it in the family's 1947 Luscombe, and a commercial license when she was hired circa 1989. Also, quite possibly her father knew UAL V.P. of Flight Ops Hart Langer from the Pan Am days which may have helped.

[JammedStab]

Well, she was hired at a time when United was under the gun from a 1976 court decree in a case filed by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, a 'diversity' agency of the federal government.

United had committed to a 'double quota' hiring strategy to increase diversity and was sued in 1988 by the EEOC for not being compliant with the earlier ruling:



Eeoc Hits United Hiring Plan - Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-09-13/business/8801300011_1_entry-level-pilots-pilot-applicants-minorities)

As a result of the 1988 suit, United accelerated diversity hiring and adjusted requirements to more aggressively promote inclusivity. Separate interview programs were set up at the old Stapleton airport offices for so called 'EEOC' class (a legal term from an earlier lawsuit) applicants.

Technical knowledge tests were abandoned since some groups did poorly due to cultural bias and lack of educational opportunities.

The skills evaluation ride was no longer given in an airliner sim because that gave people with large plane flying experience an unfair advantage. Instead a little Frasca trainer desktop box with a Cessna type panel was used for the evaluation.

Pilot hiring manager Nancy Stuke published separate sets of average experience levels of successful EEOC and non-EEOC applicants.

Inevitably, some folks with very low experience levels were hired in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Of course, we all started somewhere and after a few thousand hours, you either get it or you don't.

I believe the captain in this incident probably had at least a few hundred hours of flight time, much of it in the family's 1947 Luscombe, and a commercial license when she was hired circa 1989. Also, quite possibly her father knew UAL V.P. of Flight Ops Hart Langer from the Pan Am days which may have helped.
I would say that we can look forward to this sort of blatant discrimination ending in the next four years.

[Lookleft]

Doesn't really matter how she got into the airline it would appear that she has significant experience since and I doubt she was given a free ride through the Command process. I think what it does highlight is that professionals from all walks of life and yes even the steely eyed missile persons in the flight deck are under significant stress from things such as personal matters, changes in corporate culture, the drive to squeeze as much "productivity" out of flight crew and uncertainty about retirement incomes. She has made a decision that will impact on the rest of her working life. Don't be too quick to judge because in this day and age none of us know where our particular breaking point is.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Lookleft: Absolutely.

But you'd think in this modern world of 'no blame' cultures, work-life balance and equal opportunities that people would come nowhere near their breaking point.

Either the world of work has gone way past the potential for individuals to break down without the mitigation of workplace practices, and/or life in general is simply becoming too complicated and emotionally demanding for many to cope?

I've had two demanding careers, three wives and was emotionally abused as a child. A psychiatrist I met by chance shortly after my last divorce told me after hearing my tale that I was unlikely to survive more than 5 years in his opinion - the emotional 'baggage' would be unbearable.

I drove to Beachy Head the next day and stood right on the edge - and thought 'no' I never would.

There have been ups and downs and some anger and regret, but 11 years later I'm still here and know I never would act irrationally or harm myself or others in any way.

I still wonder if one day, when I get older and my 'walls' are down, I will just simply collapse in a heap under the weight pent up emotions?

[Mozella]

What do you want the companies to do? Have an annual psych eval for pilots?
I'm not an FAA qualified physician, but I was a Captain for a large International U.S. carrier and, as part of that job I had to get a physical every 6 months. As explained to me by several different physicians, part of that exam included a psych evaluation. One of our pilots was flagged by this process and had to undergo further evaluation by the company doctor. He was eventually cleared and I don't remember the exact circumstances, but there is indeed a procedure in place, or at least there used to be. I'm retired now.

[ExSp33db1rd]

......as part of that job I had to get a physical every 6 months.

which included an ECG, the last of which after 50 years - I maintained a licence into retirement - picked up the need for a couple of arterial stents, so .... if all those ECG's were essential, why don't I need them now ? Realised that I hadn't had an ECG for 7 years so got my local Dr. to give me one anyway. Seems alright.

I do wonder how many drivers hurtling towards me at a closing speed of 200 kph have ever even seen a doctor ?

[Airbubba]

As explained to me by several different physicians, part of that exam included a psych evaluation. One of our pilots was flagged by this process and had to undergo further evaluation by the company doctor. He was eventually cleared and I don't remember the exact circumstances, but there is indeed a procedure in place, or at least there used to be. I'm retired now.

From the 'just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to to get your medical' department, here is some guidance from the FAA Aviation Examiner handbook:

Valuable information can be derived from the casual conversation that occurs during the physical examination. Some of this conversation will reveal information about the family, the job, and special interests. Even some personal troubles may be revealed at this time. The Examiner's questions should not be stilted or follow a regular pattern; instead, they should be a natural extension of the Examiner's curiosity about the person being examined. Information about the motivation for medical certification and interest in flying may be revealing. A formal Mental Status Examination is unnecessary.

For example, it is not necessary to ask about time, place, or person to discover whether the applicant is oriented. Information about the flow of associations, mood, and memory, is generally available from the usual interactions during the examination. Indication of cognitive problems may become apparent during the examination. Such problems with concentration, attention, or confusion during the examination or slower, vague responses should be noted and may be cause for deferral.

The Examiner should make observations about the following specific elements and should note on the form any gross or notable deviations from normal:

Appearance (abnormal if dirty, disheveled, odoriferous, or unkempt);
Behavior (abnormal if uncooperative, bizarre, or inexplicable);
Mood (abnormal if excessively angry, sad, euphoric, or labile);
Communication (abnormal if incomprehensible, does not answer questions directly);
Memory (abnormal if unable to recall recent events); and
Cognition (abnormal if unable to engage in abstract thought, or if delusional or hallucinating).


https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/et/

A colleague who is big into HIMS drug/alcohol addiction work told me a couple of years ago that the head Department of Transportation doctor was pushing for formal psych exams for pilots but that the FAA Aeromed folks in OKC were not in favor at that time.

Years ago airlines used personality tests like the MMPI to screen applicants but some of that stuff fell out of fashion for a while due to lawsuits like the ones mentioned above claiming cultural bias in hiring decisions.

I understand applicants at some places now take an online Hogan's Goat (I failed ;)) test for screening.

[Amadis of Gaul]

I would say that we can look forward to this sort of blatant discrimination ending in the next four years.
I doubt that, JS. That whole issue is way too politically poisonous, regardless of who's at the helm.

[JammedStab]

True, but the judges interpret the constitution regardless of poison. At least the new ones will be.

And I believe that there is a pending case.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Poor thing.

Divorce isn't that devastating - and certainly not something a SANE pilot should get into meltdown over.

If she can't take the strain she should be nowhere near a commercial aircraft - and that's for her to determine as we all have to day-to-day.

I visit to a shrink is definitely required, rest, and maybe a rethink of her career options.
I wonder if it might be a good idea for aviation professionals to have a candid conversation with their partners about what this business does to relationships. Seems to me at least one divorce per career should almost be an expectation, so why not talk about this kind of thing honestly? I don't think ignoring things makes them go away, which is why my wife and I have discussed the possibility that we may not be "until death do us part". It's not because we don't want it to be forever, but because life has a way of throwing curve balls, so perhaps they would be less devastating if there was some honest communication previously.

I could be wrong.

[Amadis of Gaul]

True, but the judges interpret the constitution regardless of poison. At least the new ones will be.

And I believe that there is a pending case.

We'll see, JS, we'll see. Even if changes do come about, I doubt they will touch aviation first. There are industries where this sort of thing is MUCH more of a factor.

[No Fly Zone]

I don't much care about the underlying cause(s) of this melt down. What I DO care about is getting my butt OFF that airplane, meaning NOW!

[wiggy]

This was posted elsewhere earlier today:

Former Red Arrow pilot and war hero Peter Collins killed himself over retirement worries | Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/former-red-arrow-pilot-and-war-hero-peter-collins-killed-himself-over-retirement-worries/story-30144854-detail/story.html)

Let's leave the yelling about gender, race, politics, unions etc out of this - it goes to show that at any point in our lives any of us, regardless of background or gender may need peer intervention, hand holding etc, and also just maybe we all need to listen a little harder to what is being said by the individual on the other seat.....

[Carbon Bootprint]

Wiggy, that's quite a depressing and tragic story. However, given that the deceased had tried to take his own life two weeks earlier and yet the family had "no indication of what was to come," it certainly seems that someone wasn't listening very well. In the hindsight view, I would think at least some of those he left behind have a profound feeling of guilt. Sad all the way around.

Back on track, your point about gender, race, etc. is well taken.

[Bergerie1]

wiggy, Very well said. Very many people need help at some time in their lives.

[desertmedic322]

There is a concept, externalizers vs internalizers. This is predominantly applied in PTSD. A few years ago my wife tried to end our relationship. I did as she asked, like always.Went as she requested. Her father spoke to me....said to go home, she had told him "daddy he will sit at my grave and kill himself the night I'm buried." A week later I did as she predicted, he was fast enough that I merely lost an eyebrow. Haven't worked since - am not 100% locked on to make life & death decisions over anyone else. My point is merely we all can be broken somehow, it's just a matter of degrees. Having 1st hand experience hope none of you EVER know the feeling. Sincerely,

[Amadis of Gaul]

Truly sorry to hear that, medic. I guess I'm either more egotistical or more jaded (maybe both). If she ever moves on, so will I.