Cross-Party Public Apology for IHAT

[Lima Juliet]

The Iraq Historic Abuse Team (IHAT) opened the flood-gates to thousands of sailors', soldiers' and airmens' lives being ruined by fake claims. Set up in March 2010 by Gordon Brown's Labour Government and then presided over by the Conservative/Liberal-Democrat and then Conservative-only Governments, it would appear that every Political Party could have ceased the immeasurably damaging IHAT investigations at any point. Thus I deem all 3 main Political Parties at fault and suggest that there should be a record in the House that they all got it wrong and they apologise to the UK Armed Forces for this failure in trust and the so-called 'Military Covenant'.

Anyone think this is worthy of petition for at least an answer?

LJ

[Ken Scott]

I agree with your sentiment LJ & consider that an apology for this witch hunt is long overdue but fear that support for a petition will not be huge (unless you can work the word 'Trump' into it). One that gains just a few thousand signatures might give the politicians the belief that they can just ignore & move on - which is pretty much how they always treat the armed forces post conflict.

Mr Kipling (he of the poetry, not cakes) is right on the mark:

I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

[Hangarshuffle]

I would like to see a cross-party apology without a prompt due to petition, but I doubt there will be one.

I think a lot of people will be making the assumption that the present Government are starting to lose their grip of military affairs anyway, and an apology will simply exemplify that.

[Tankertrashnav]

I think a lot of people will be making the assumption that the present Government are starting to lose their grip of military affairs anyway, and an apology will simply exemplify that.

I'm afraid if it's not health or education it doesn't get a look in in government priorities. There are no votes in guns (nor ships nor aircraft) therefore politicians are quite happy to leave defence matters on the back burner until something like this comes up and bites them.

Re a petition, L.J. not a day goes by without several of these appearing on Facebook. I doubt if any of them have ever had any affect on government policy, even those which reach the magic number, whatever it is, which guarantees them discussion in the Commons. A waste of ink (or pixels!).

[Finningley Boy]

Having had my curiosity awakened I decided to find out what sort of cove Shiner is, why was he so pejorative and subjective towards the Armed Forces etc? I googled his name and among the many hits was an editorial from the Independent, and similar in the Guardian, I believe, it was from 2009 and boy did it lionise Shiner and his hunting down of British Soldiers guilty of murder and torture. The article was so sure that a trial in each case was mere inconvenient formality the way it read. It would be interesting to know what they've printed in the pages of their edition today?:}

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/phil-shiner-we-torture-people-yet-no-one-admits-it-1766263.html

FB:)

[BEagle]

The best you could probably achieve would be some assurance from the Government that they won't repeat the folly of IHAT et al ever again.

The Grauniad has this to say about ****er:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/10/iraq-war-claims-unit-to-be-shut-down-says-uk-defence-secretary

[Melchett01]

Having had my curiosity awakened I decided to find out what sort of cove Shiner is, why was he so pejorative and subjective towards the Armed Forces etc? I googled his name and among the many hits was an editorial from the Independent, and similar in the Guardian, I believe, it was from 2009 and boy did it lionise Shiner and his hunting down of British Soldiers guilty of murder and torture. The article was so sure that a trial in each case was mere inconvenient formality the way it read. It would be interesting to know what they've printed in the pages of their edition today?:}

Phil Shiner: 'We torture people, yet no one admits it' | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/phil-shiner-we-torture-people-yet-no-one-admits-it-1766263.html)

FB:)

Blimey, The Indie makes Shiner sound like the next Pope designate. However, the reality as we know is very different and he clearly feels his self-righteous, holier than thou beliefs entitle him to subvert justice and the normal ethics of being a decent human being to achieve his aim. In fact, I'd go so far as to say his actions represent a good example of the the other side of the 'I was just following orders' coin.

[Al R]

Let's remember that IHAT was originally introduced to divert attempts to place British servicemen and women in the international dock by affirming that we would hold our own credible investigations - I believe the test cases were few and seemingly, valid. The principle was a sound one and designed to defend our troops from a court which may have a different political agenda and a lower threshold for proof. Where it all went wrong was when the shysters got a sniff of the prospect of a pay out and the likes of Shiner started to decimate the principle in favour of their own personal and financial interests.

[Always a Sapper]

To be honest I can't see it ever happening and even if they did it would be too little and too late.

Now that Shiner has been struck off (case for damages effectively proven, bar the shouting) it would be nice to see his 'victims' go after him like a pack of very, very annoyed honey badgers for damages...

[ricardian]

Shiner declared bankrupt (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39301681)

[glad rag]

Does anyone actually think he will suffer in any way from this?

[hoodie]

Shiner declared bankrupt (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39301681)

If you haven't clicked on ricardian's link, it includes this tidbit:

A property in Birmingham, which the Insolvency Service lists as his address, was transferred to his daughters for £300,000 in January.

The service said the sale of the house and any other transfer of assets would be subject to investigation to ensure his creditors recoup as much of the money owed to them as possible.

An Insolvency Service spokesman said: "We would want to know what has happened to any money received for the house. The Official Receiver checks all transactions over a five-year period before bankruptcy. We would investigate that sale."

:*

[Melchett01]

I wonder if the Govt will pursue him for damages with the same vigour he pursued Servicemen with wholly vexatious cases?

Probably not, just sweep it under the carpet, make it go away.

[treadigraph]

National Crime Agency investigating Phil Shiner (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/18/phil-shiner-uk-police-confirm-criminal-investigation-into-iraq-human-rights-lawyer)

[Whenurhappy]

IHAT merrily continues to grind along. There's a Team in Istanbul that interviews Iraqis - thousands of pounds spent weekly on hotel bills, office bills and translator's fees. No evidence of it winding up!

[Basil]

Not a lawyer but isn't there something about 'transfer of assets to avoid liability' are invalid?

[Biggus]

Isn't 'perverting the course of justice' a criminal offence, with a maximum penalty of life imprisonment?