London - Melbourne - with who?

[yellowtriumph]

We're thinking of flying to Oz next January and we're not sure which carrier to use. We do know we want to fly business class.

We're thinking of either Emirates, or Virgin (who will actually use Etihad). We are flying club members of Virgin and we do use the points on occasion so they would be useful. Virgin are also about £900 cheaper for the two return tickets.

Any thoughts from the team?

[crewmeal]

For starters Virgin only fly as far as HKG. They will probably have a partner carrier to Oz. Qatar or Etihad have excellent service reputations along with Singapore. Personally I would be looking at one of those.

[Cheltman]

If you going Business Class any of the gulf carriers or Singapore should be good.

I used Cathay Pacific some years ago and the service was excellent. Not done in recently though

[DaveReidUK]

For starters Virgin only fly as far as HKG. They will probably have a partner carrier to Oz.

I think I read somewhere it was Etihad. :O

[PAXboy]

Is that Etihad HKG~MEL direct?

[yellowtriumph]

My wife says when she looked on the Virgin website and put in dates for next January, the flight was London, Abu Dhabi, Melbourne all on Etihad?

[Evanelpus]

Friends of mine have just gone Thai business class, loved it!

[Heathrow Harry]

Emirates are very good - nice lounge at Melbourne and excellent limo service

You can save yourself a fortune in Business by going via AMS or CDG ..................

[ExXB]

And if you buy a seperate ticket UK-AMS/CDG your longhaul ticket is not subject to UK APD. Currently £146 per passenger for business. I think even an open-jaw ticket would be exempt. i.e. AMS-MEL-UK.

[yellowtriumph]

ExXB, I'm not very familiar with this sort of thing so forgive me for asking . Are you suggesting getting a 'one off' scheduled flight to AMS/CDG then getting a ticket that routes AMS/CDG to Melbourne then back to the UK directly?

Would the same sort of thing work if we were to fly to Melbourne but return from Sydney? Sorry for the rather naive questions, how might I go about this - we have a very good small local travel agent who relishes a challenge.

[Heathrow Harry]

I did London Paris on Eurostar, then Emirates Paris-Dubai-Adelaide; and return from MEL to Paris and then AF back to LHR just before Christmas in Business

The only issue was having to reclaim bags in CDG and walk around to the AF checkin in the next terminal - about 30 minutes all in...................... but saved well over £ 800

The Emirates bit I booked on their website in about 5 minutes................ it's very very easy

AF I booked as a single trip standalone ticket when I was in Australia

[ExXB]

YT, that's exactly right. A 'double open jaw*' AMS-???-MEL; SYD-???-UK should also be possible without being subject to UK APD. Try it on one of the airlines web sites. But do some comparisons, returning to the UK rather than AMS/PAR could have a higher fare just because UK fares are higher.

APD applies to flights departing the UK and this itinerary doesn't have any. But do make sure that your initial UK-AMS/PAR journey is ticketed separately. You do pay £13 (economy) or £26 (business) APD on that sector if you fly.

*As I recall the terminal points of the open jaw must be in the same country, with the EU being considered one country for this purpose. Don't delay your trip too long!

[Heathrow Harry]

It also took about an hour longer door-to-door

I was quoted ex LHR (or any other UK airport) prices that were significantly higher than going via AMS or CDG - Qantas were highest, then BA, then SQ and Emirates were the best deal

you should ALWAYS check other airports when going long distance IMHO - sometimes the savings can be astounding....................

[Cymmon]

For business travel I would highly recommend Qatar Airways.

[yellowtriumph]

Thanks for your inputs. Mrs yt is concerned about booking such a long journey using multiple suppliers and ticketing. She thinks, perhaps not unreasonably, what happens if one of the legs is late and we miss a connecting flight? Who is responsible etc.

She also feels that if we go say via CDG/AMS that she would like to travel there the day before and have an over-nighter which of course reduces the financial attractiveness of split carrier ticketing.

Any further thoughts?

[ExXB]

YT, yes that is a risk. And you are on your own in such a case. But, depending on the fare conditions of the long haul fare you may be allowed to easily rebook flights. Less flexible fares may allow a change for a fee. The more flexible, the more expensive though. If something does go pear-shaped make sure you contact the longhaul airline as soon as you can to advise them and sort out options. Try and not no-show, it gets more difficult to fix afterwards.

Check the fare conditions so you know what would happen if your outbound transport over the channel is delayed or cancelled.

Travelling the day before is wise, but it does add cost - unless you plan on sleeping in the airport! You will need a longer connection time - a minimum of three hours to be on the safe side.

[Yaw String]

Try Royal Brunei,1705 departure....0700am arrival.
Ok,it's via Dubai and Brunei,but it's on the only aircraft type -B787-that gives you air to breath,as fresh as the ambient air( doesn't pass near engines).
Business class basic but full flatbed,and you can BYO..
Check the price.....

[surely not]

Royal Brunei used to be a 'dry' flight a few years ago. Not a problem if you don't like to have a glass of wine with your meal, but if you do then choose another option.

The Virgin/Etihad tie up is with Virgin Australia, not Virgin UK.

If I was travelling economy down to OZ I would do my best to use flights and airlines using the Airbus A380 as the leg room on these is far superior to other aeroplanes. It is also very quiet on board.

Qatar have an excellent transfer product, as do Emirates and Etihad.

[Andy_S]

Royal Brunei used to be a 'dry' flight a few years ago. Not a problem if you don't like to have a glass of wine with your meal, but if you do then choose another option

As Yaw String says, the flight may be dry but you are allowed to bring your own....

If I was travelling economy down to OZ I would do my best to use flights and airlines using the Airbus A380 as the leg room on these is far superior to other aeroplanes.

Sorry, but I call BS on that. The leg room is entirely what the airlines choose to offer, nothing to do with the A380. You get more leg room with the Thai 787 than the Qantas 380, for example.

[Rush2112]

SQ every time for me, the business class seat is excellent, service is superb and I would far rather transit in Changi than Dubai airport.

[yellowtriumph]

I believe SQ is at a premium to the others carrier in general although I haven't looked it up or compared prices yet, I just wanted to get the 'teams' feelings on this first.

We will definitely fly business class, our parameters are - don't want british airways due to previous experiences - have found Virgin to be very good over the years and we collect and use their points, would consider an alternative if justified. (ps, it is a holiday flight)

[Heathrow Harry]

Any flight UK- Australia will in general be more expensive than via Europe for two reasons - firstly APD and ssecondly a lot of people fly the route cp the number going to/from AMS for example

SQ normally are able to get away with a slight premium on any route long-haul because they have the best product historically - I've never had anything less than a good flight on them in years of traveling about Asia

[Ancient Observer]

Yellow,
whilst i hesitate to be disloyal to this great site, browse "flyer talk aswell. (google it)

[Mr Mac]

Yellow Triumph
Both EK and SQ would be my recommendations in Business on that route, and I use both extensively. I have to say I prefer EK380 as the A/C due to the stand up bar- some where to stretch a bit, and it is quite sociable usually.
As for Dubai / Singapore re the change of planes it is down to personnel preference and Business lounges are much of a muchness, but would probably say Singapore but only just.


Have a good trip.

[Heathrow Harry]

I'd second that - the Emirates lounge in Dubai can get pretty busy - especially middle of the night

[ExXB]

I believe that EK are now selling access to their F (yes F) and J lounges for a fee. I haven't travelled with EK for years, but their lounges were already cramped then. Can't imagine what they would be like now they have added a few dozen A380s etc - and have opened them to fee-paying punters.

[Heathrow Harry]

newer lounges but busy busy busy at Dubai - everywhere else they are really spacious and quiet

[lepidus]

My wife and I have travelled almost every year to Oz in business for the last 16 years. We started with SQ and since have used Malaysian via KL, Cathay via HK, Qantas via Singapore and Emirates via Dubai and Singapore or direct from Dubai.

All have been good, SQ especially but they are more expensive and do not have the chauffeur transfers as does EK and Malaysian. The last 3 trips have been with EK which charged in Oct 16 what we paid in 2001 with SQ! We consider them the best of the ones listed, both for amenities and price.

The possibility of routing via CDG or AMS for a saving makes sense but, other than timing to allow for delays, one point to bear in mind is the luggage allowances on Business are much higher than the probably Economy allowances on the UK to CDG/AMS leg.

We have not used Etihad or Qatar so cannot comment on these.

Enjoy your trip.

[Metro man]

At the moment Air China are the cheapest followed by Korean, Asiana and ANA. Obviously prices will vary over the course of the year and business class fares have big enough margins to allow for deep discounts.

Connection times with the above are longer on at least one of the legs, but you could have a stopover or a few hours in bed in the transit hotel. Air China would be about GBP2500 cheaper than Qantas.

It comes down to preferences, if you are happy with a B grade business class at a considerable saving then Air China would be worth looking at, however Asiana and ANA are both Skytrax 5* and only marginally more expensive.

Draw up a short list of suitable airlines based on reviews, suitability of connections and FF miles usage/accrual, then take the best price.

My preference would be Qatar but ANA come up GBP1500 cheaper in total and that would swing it for me.

[yellowtriumph]

Are you able to confirm the ANA routing? - thank you.

[Crusher1]

I believe SQ is at a premium to the others carrier in general although I haven't looked it up or compared prices yet, I just wanted to get the 'teams' feelings on this first.

We will definitely fly business class, our parameters are - don't want british airways due to previous experiences - have found Virgin to be very good over the years and we collect and use their points, would consider an alternative if justified. (ps, it is a holiday flight)

Just done this with Etihad, picked up from home on time and flights on time, A380 London to Abu Dhabi is great, 777 for second leg is ok, only downside is Abu Dhabi airport which is a bit of a scrum. We also took a Virgin flight Melbourne to Adelaide which earns points. Also flown route with Brunei who are cheap and perfectly fine and Emirates/Qantas, all have flat beds so in my opinion I would happily use any of the above.

[Metro man]

I got the fares off Kayak.com the ANA routing is via Hanida with six hours between flights each way. Each leg is roughly equal length.

Try inputting the dates you want as this will affect the price as well.

Asiana are second cheapest but you have a 19.5 hour layover on the way back.

[esa-aardvark]

Last time I flew to Paris with Asiana I had a free overnight
hotel in Seoul. Decent hotel & was able to go for a walk,
but very cold. Shorter stopover one can take a tour, cold
weather gear provided & I believe you don't have to clear customs.
For me, I'd get to Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur and then onward
with AirAsia. Low cost, but you can get a lie-flat bed.

[yellowtriumph]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses, I will have to sift through the info and let Mrs yt decide!

[ExXB]

Matrix (http://matrix.itasoftware.com), now owned by google, is a great tool for finding best fares, connections, etc. You can't buy a ticket from them but you can get the fare calculation printed out to take to an agency / airline who can issue the ticket.

Should be the first stop in travel planning.

[fireblade2000uk]

Have just returned from Oz with Etihad ........ excellent experience and definitely will fly with them again. Price was good too and a great business class product unlike certain legacy carriers!