Hours on CV - my airline logs 50% time for Heavy crew

[prisoner24601]

First of all, Mods - very sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

Secondly, regarding hours on the CV. My airline only logs half flight time for 4 crew ops and two thirds for 3 crew ops and I'll only be signed off for this in my logbook. So a 14 hour flight would only log 7 hours (time in the seat) on a 4 crew trip.

Which hours should I show on a CV? Total flight time or what the airline will sign me off for?

Thanks in advance!

[Bealzebub]

You should log the time when you are either the pilot flying or the pilot monitoring whilst actually operating from one of the pilot seats when you are fulfilling that role. Supernumerary, jumpseat monitoring, or resting doesn't fulfill either the P1 or P2 roles and shouldn't normally be logged as such.

[prisoner24601]

So far this year I have flown 960 hours in the last 12 months and around 700 in the seat.

[VJW]

I've jumpseated about 200 hours last year in the cabin, can I log this time? ;)

[icemanalgeria]

Not quite true. Depends if the crew has Two Captains and one First officer or one Captain and two first officers :)
My airline use 2 copilots and one captain for augmented crew, so the captain (commander) is responsible for the flight even when he is sleeping :(

[wiggy]

For us it is as above - it's seat time only that is logged for licencing/upgrade purposes, the one exception being that the designated commander logs the lot. If it a 4 pilot trip the heavy captain only gets to log seat time.

[back to Boeing]

Working at the same lot as wiggy, just to clarify everything counts for FTL's though. Bunk time and seat time count for both 100 hours in 28 and 900 hours a year

[wiggy]

Yup, I wasn't perhaps that clear about that - we have to also log somewhere (e.g. Spare log book column ) total flight time for FTL purposes.....possibly not a universal rule though.

[prisoner24601]

Thanks for the help. Its definitely not universal. We log seat time and seat time counts for the 100 in 28 and 900. So technically we could do 1800 hours a year in the aeroplane - 900 in the bunk and 900 in the seat and it would be legal!

[CXKA]

We log seat time and seat time counts for the 100 in 28 and 900. So technically we could do 1800 hours a year in the aeroplane - 900 in the bunk and 900 in the seat and it would be legal! Fatigue is bad enough when hitting 900 hours (which I have done a few times over the last few years) on a LH roster but to count only seat time sounds dangerous from a safety, fatigue and health perspective. Other countries should be cracking down on airlines that use this and not allow crews over the rolling 900 to operate in their airspace. Wish you luck on your search prisoner24601 sounds like you are making a good call to leave them!

[Ingwe]

You log the hours as per the law that you are flying under. So if in this case you can only log 50% that's what you log, any other hours claimed is pure and simple fraud. As long as that is what the legal hours required by your state of work you can not legally claim more, regardless of your nationality or you next employers rules. Once you fly under a different states laws you may log differently. How we all feel about that and the fatigue issues is a different argument.

[prisoner24601]

Think you for all the help. That has cleared it up somewhat.

[cessnapete]

What airline doesn't count bunk time towards duty periods?
Hopefully some Third World outfit whose knackered crews don't get into my European airspace!

[prisoner24601]

Would be wrong to say but it does get rather hot in the summer.

[pedalpedalpedal]

If the a/c can not fly the mission without you, and you need to account for FTL with these same hours, log the hours, you are a "required" crew member. Companies can use what-ever fences they want for upgrades etc. Of course the appropriate column in your logbook, PIC P2 etc, but defo total time!

[gearlever]

In my outfit (major EU carrier) block time is logged as flight-time, also sim events. No reduction on bunk time.

[The Crew]

Its those pesky Middle East airlines that have crew racking up over 1400 hours a year but only declaring 900-1000 as actual.

[Denti]

In my outfit (major EU carrier) block time is logged as flight-time, also sim events. No reduction on bunk time.

My airline does the same. However, only because it is forced to do that by our CLA. Not in regard to bunk time, but according to EASA OPS simulator time is not flight time and rest times before and after do not apply for simulator duties, just for flight duties.

[pfvspnf]

pedalpedal, I agree with you, unfortunately many companies will not certify time in bunk or rest time with augmented crew. I understand its your logbook and you can self certify and put whatever you want in it however to get any type of certificate or documentation for flight hours, the companies will only publish in seat time and there will be a discrepancy with your logbook!

[cockygashandlazy]

CAP 804 section 1 part E.10

'Heavy' Crew

When an aircraft crew consists of more than the required number of pilots (i.e. a 'heavy' crew) the rules for logging of flight time are as per Part-FCL.050, but for clarification the following should apply:

10.1 Pilot in Command

The designated commander of the aeroplane may log as pilot in command all the flight time. This includes rest taken on board.

10.2 Co-Pilot

The designated co-pilot of the aeroplane may log as co-pilot all the time he acts as co-pilot whilst sitting in a pilot's seat.

He may log as PICUS all the time he occupies a pilot's seat and acts as pilot-in-command under the supervision of the pilot in command or a cruise relief pilot substituting for the pilot in command.

He may also log as pilot in command all the time he is acting as pilot in command and substituting for the designated commander of the aircraft when he is taking rest.

He may not log as flight time any period s during which he does not occupy a pilot's seat.

[back to Boeing]

All good and well but CAP 804 is no longer valid and is for reference only. As things stand only easa regs are valid in easa land. I'm sure easa regs are the same but I haven't looked them up.