Avalon Airshow 3-5 March 2017

[L-Plater]

The Avalon Airshow is back this year.

I'm a spotter rather than a professional pilot but it's always a fantastic day and conducted in great spirit. Full of nostalgia but also plenty of power when the fighters come out to play.

Anyone going this year?

Aircraft display program should be out in a few weeks.

I'm going to the Friday night for the first time. I've heard it's amazing. Only seen the Sat/Sun display previously.

https://www.airshow.com.au/

What are your favourites to see?

[Minosavy Masta]

I hope you have a great time "L". As for me I feel the event has been going downhill in so many aspects since the last Russian involvement sometime last century.The entry fee is exorbitant ,and the Facilities and programs are lacklustre by world class Airshow Standards.and this time there won't even be a Dump and Burn to stir the juices.
If it rains..I hope you enjoy the mud in the car parks and on the entry roads...if not. Eat the dust !

[rjtjrt]

L-Plater
Still a good airshow and the dust is not so bad.
Enjoy it, and keep up your enthusiasm for aviation.
I will definitely be going.
Never been to the night show, but heard good comments about it.

[L-Plater]

Thanks for the replies. I've been each event since 1998. Except when I was in the UK and was lucky enough to be at Farnborough in 2006.

I wanted to be a pilot as a kid but unfortunately I wouldn't pass a commercial medical due to hearing. Aviation is a massive passion for me nonetheless and I've enjoyed a few lessons in a Cessna 172 and had a ride in a sports plane too!

For the most part I love aviation vicariously through travel and air shows :)

[fujii]

Although Avalon has some large aircraft, it can really drag at times and it has had some woefully poor commentators in the past. If you can, get aross to NZ any Easter and see Wanaka or Omaka. NZ is close and cheap if you plan well. Don't ever take an organised tour.

[The name is Porter]

I've heard the F35 will be demo-ing there & the F22.

[gassed budgie]

As for me I feel the event has been going downhill in so many aspects since the last Russian involvement sometime last century.The entry fee is exorbitant ,and the Facilities and programs are lackluster by world class Airshow Standards.and this time there won't even be a Dump and Burn to stir the juices.
If it rains..I hope you enjoy the mud in the car parks and on the entry roads...if not. Eat the dust !

Yup. Really only interested in seeing one machine....

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w378/Yanknbank/F-22_zpslszpjm24.jpg

....and if they leave the display pilot at home like they did last time (supposedly), don't think I'll bother.

[Rotor Work]

Once again I will attend.
I have a gold pass for the Friday as you can get into the expo at 9:00AM and it's easier sitting down for the night show.
I will have general admission on Saturday.
The air shows were excellent back in the day when the Russians attended in force.
Pretty lame now.

The volunteers do a great job, have you thought about volunteering L Plater. I did it for a number of years.

Noticed the new machine is making an appearance, it will be nice if the display pilot turns up as well.
Regards RW

http://http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-07/joint-strike-fighter-f35-to-visit-australia-avalon-air-show/8248194 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-07/joint-strike-fighter-f35-to-visit-australia-avalon-air-show/8248194)

[Squawk7700]

I get to volunteer at my work to work there and get paid as per normal. The best of both worlds. Paid to go to an air show :-)

[Capn Bloggs]

I want to see it do this:

eQb02O2CG9w

[Galdom]

"I wouldn't pass a commercial medical due to hearing"

My hearing has never been the same since I experienced the B1 taking off there a few times back. Sad that it's only on static display as for me it would be worth the admission just to watch it do touch and go's!

Enjoy the night show, on a clear night it is magnificent so here's hoping.

Love the enthusiasm L

[0ttoL]

I've been to most, especially the early ones. I agree that the Russians were a highlight.

My tip. Take your aviation scanner along with all the frequencies programmed in.
You'll hear plenty of stuff of stuff that the commentators don't mention and you will know what is coming up next.
eg. One of the Roulettes taking a bird strike and leaving the formation with another so that they could assess the damage.
F/A-18 terminating his display early due to "a problem"
B1 departing for Darwin/Guam/wherever and talking to Melbourne. They requested permission to depart via the Twelve Apostles so they could take a look.
I would love to have been on the cliffs that day.

Enjoy the airshow!
Cheers

[L-Plater]

Can't wait! My hearing is hereditary. I wear ear plugs when the big toys are out!

Perhaps next time I can volunteer.

Always a heap of fun.
I even enjoy the commentary too!

[Jabberwocky82]

Anyone have any rough ideas on the flying program? I see it's meant to be released early Feb, the night flying would be interesting. Do they usually run similar displays across the three days?
Thanks

[Galdom]

In past years the displays are similar but not identical. There are some displays that are for the night show only.
On one particular memorable year we lucked in with a clear starry sky and a glider was doing aerobatics with a stream of sparks coming from pyrotechnics on its wingtips. That was something very special!

[Jabberwocky82]

The Preliminary Program is up;
https://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2017/PUBLIC/program/index.asp

Saturday and Sunday look to have more action. The night display sounds exciting, but just seems to be a few parachutes, a glider and a flare drop from a Herc. Is it really worth the effort to make Friday night over either of the other days? I'm guessing Sunday is usually the busiest in terms of crowd numbers?

Cheers

[bentleg]

I'm going for a week as a volunteer tarmac marshall, this will be my 8th airshow. It's a great flying fix and being on the tarmac you get meet the overseas pilots and see lots of extra stuff. One year I got into the cockpit of a B1B. Take an airband radio, it adds another dimension to the experience.

Saturday and Sunday look to have more action. The night display sounds exciting, but just seems to be a few parachutes, a glider and a flare drop from a Herc. Is it really worth the effort to make Friday night over either of the other days? I'm guessing Sunday is usually the busiest in terms of crowd numbers?The best part of Friday night is seeing and hearing Connie take off at night. You will get more bang for your display buck in the daytime, the Saturday Sunday daytime crowds can be overwhelming. Sunday is usually busier than Saturday but the weather can change that. If you can get a trade pass for a trade day, do so. Looking forward to the F22 display.

[Rotor Work]

+1 for the Connie.
Seeing the radial exhaust stacks glowing red against the night sky is the major bonus for me.
Nothing about the F35 on any of the program days.
Looks like the display pilot is awol. So much for the star attraction.
Regards RW

[Glasgow_Flyer]

I'm looking forward to it!! I'm planning on flying in on the Thursday - and hopefully get back with the kids on Sunday.
I haven't been into AV East before - I hear it can be a little bit of fun!

[IFEZ]

Glasgow - Avalon East can be a bit hectic at times but if you follow the published procedures and stay alert its generally not too bad.


Its a bit of a cow paddock, so can be subject to closure if it gets too much rain on it, so have a plan B just in case.


Oh, and make sure all your paperwork is in order. Its ramp check central there..! (Well it has been every other year). License & Medical, MR, W&B done, Fuel Calcs, Nav stuff etc etc just in case you're one of the 'lucky ones'!


I'm looking forward to it, even though there doesn't seem to be much different from last time (or the time before that!). Never get sick of seeing the military jets do their stuff http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[The name is Porter]

Avalon East can be a bit hectic at times but if you follow the published procedures and stay alert its generally not too bad.

Yeah, similar to Oshkosh I hear :rolleyes: What do they run into Avalon? Class C parading as Class D?

[Rotor Work]

The guys and girls at Tarmac Pink (Avalon East) will look after you.

Also with the ramp checks they will be looking at iPad & go pro mounts.
Regards RW

[ACMS]

Nothing better to do than hassle people over crap......:D

[KittyKatKaper]

Seems to be class D procedures.
SUP 03/17 (vfr) at http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/sup/s17-h03.pdf

SUP H01/17, H02/17 and H03/17 at Aeronautical Information Package (AIP) | Airservices (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/aip.asp?pg=50)

[IFEZ]

Hey Porter, did you fly into Oshkosh when you went..? I've seen some youtube footage of guys flying in and out of there. Holy crap, now THAT looks hectic!! http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Sunfish]

going on thursday, but have zero expectations of seeing anything useful or of benefit to GA or RA. probably just war toys for military onanists. i should be gone by 2 pm.

[Squawk7700]

I don't know why you are bothering to go Sunfish, you did nothing but complain bitterly about it on here two years ago when you went last time !!

[Sunfish]

I know Squawk, but at heart I am still an optimist. Maybe there will be something to see/buy/inform this time.

If I assume all we get is white corporate jets, spotters, RC models, ageing military reenactment morons in old jeeps and bored salesmen who are waiting to go home, then I guess I can only be surprised and delighted.

I think the best stand last time was the Bureau of Meteorology, Might have even bought a Garmin GTN 650 last time if the salesman had been interested enough to tell me why I should want one.

[parabellum]

I do wish those of you so critical of the Avalon show, (Sunfish, two years and four years ago!), had the slightest idea of how many thousands of hours of work, both paid and volunteer, goes into producing this five day event and realised that budget restriction, aircraft availability - especially military and the weather all play their part in the perception of the final product and all of which are outside the control of the organisers.

[Glasgow_Flyer]

Isn't it ridiculous - my flight time from PC would be about 6 minutes (assuming no hanging about), but assuming ramp check, I'd be planning a nav to the next bay!
I have to say, my appetite to fly in reduced somewhat when I heard AOPA have beers on offer from 4pm - I may swap the a/c for an Uber!!

[Sunfish]

Parabellum, I am the last person to be critical of the volunteers and I have a working knowledge of the huge amount of work, paid and unpaid, to stage such an event.

What I'm saying is that I have very few expectations as a GA ppl holder of seeing much that is of anything other than entertainment value.

Frankly there does not seem to be any aviation related event in Australia that is targeted at GA, the closest being the SAAA show at Narromine, which I hope to attend again.

[Squawk7700]

I'm guessing the F35's (2 of them) won't fly as they are the first of the Australian owned units which will only have just recently arrived here.

One day the rest of what we ordered should turn up.

[Capn Bloggs]

WAP! Git in them things and give us a flyby you knuckleheads! :}

[gerry111]

Bloggs,

Surely they wouldn't want one of those rather expensive, single engine jets to risk failing at an air show just now? Coz there's lots of money heading towards the U.S. aerospace industry from here on.

(That's from Australia.)

No doubt the F35 engines have a marketed MTBF of a zillion hours.. Of course.

[Sunfish]

Gerry, if they never fly, they can't crash.

[ACMS]

Funny Sunfish, the fact that our boys will fly them 15 hours over the Pacific and then back again single Engine must say something......

Keep it real please.

[IFEZ]

In fairness, they were never going to be flying at this one, it was always just a static display. Still, if you're going to bring them over, why not give them a bit of a run for the public..?


- Still 'ironing out' the bugs..?!
- No display routine developed yet..?
- No display pilot available..?
- Not approved by CASA for airshow displays yet..?
- Fear of getting shown up by the FA18, the F22 or even the F16..?! http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

[The name is Porter]

IFEZ, I flew into Oshkosh a couple of times last year. I flew in there on the Sunday prior to the show (the busiest day). A plain language document explaining how to get in there was probably the best document I've seen for this type of thing. Flew in from Portage Municipal.

The ATC's there are superb. Without peer. I doubt you'll go anywhere where more courtesy is shown amongst the pilots, there wasn't anyone cutting off other pilots or pushing in. And there was absolutely no talk required from pilots.

I flew in and out of there (start and finish) and once during the show. No ramp checks, no ramp nazis. Just friendly competent people helping you out.

[parabellum]

Sunfish - "Frankly there does not seem to be any aviation related event in Australia that is targeted at GA, the closest being the SAAA show at Narromine, which I hope to attend again." Yes, been to the Narromine show, 2012 or 2013, can't remember now but I thought that an organisation in Queensland ran a big show, aimed at GA? Sorry, can't for the life of me remember the name of the organisers, just that it is a fairly big show.

[gerry111]

ACMS,
For a long time, I have been known to criticise Avalon for overpromising and then under delivering.
So is it your claim that RAAF pilots will fly two of our F-35s from USA to Avalon and back to USA, true?
IFEZ,
I'm with you on this. If the F35's travel all that distance, then why not a quick circuit or two?
I reckon that the RAAF is being sold a very expensive dud with this aircraft.

[Down and Welded]

Have been to the last four Avalons. I'm a bit with Sunfish and gerry111. Have they made it clear the JSF will not be flying? They've certainly made the claim it'll be 'there'. I'll not be happy if they imply one thing and deliver quite another. Parabellum speaks eloquently in support of the organisers and makes fair comment. But we outsiders don't know what actually can or cannot be achieved and what could have been done better in the organising (which includes financing/sponsorship) but one suspects there's usually more. Suffice to say that I've noticed over the years a fair bit of commonality between one show and the next. Suggests to me that the organisers might take the easy way in some things. I'd like to see displays I wasn't expecting, not so much of the 'same old'. We can no longer see such displays as Bob Hoover's, but there are always other exciting display routines other than the (admittedly superb) aerobatics we get to see. The V/Line and bus connection to the field is a triumph of organisation... I drove in once... never again. This year I'm taking my partner to her first-ever airshow, so to make it enjoyable for her we'll be taking advantage of the Mile High Club facilities. And to take double advantage, we'll be going on Friday so our $1500 buys dinner as well as lunch. That's another thing. It'll be my second MHC admission, and I'll have to see more value this time around than I did in 2015--their first attempt at 5-star--if I'm ever to repeat the process. To those who are involved with the organisation of this event and are indignant at critical comment, remember this... the attendees are your customers. Like Sunfish, I'm an optimist, and I make no apology for having an opinion.

[junior.VH-LFA]

I reckon that the RAAF is being sold a very expensive dud with this aircraft.

Well, you'd be wrong :)

Have you flown a 5th generation fighter? Or for that matter a 4th gen?

Have you flown a JSF?

Do the people responsible for its introduction to service have fighter experience?

...

[Capn Bloggs]

Do the people responsible for its introduction to service have fighter experience?

Who, the ones that work for Lockheed or the ones that work in the JSF program office? :)

[gerry111]

Nah, junior.VH-LFA.

The last single engine jet I flew in was a RNZAF Skyhawk. So 3rd gen.

What about you?

[L-Plater]

I hope those attending the trade show are having a good time.

Only a few more days for the rest of us!

[The Golden Rivet]

Not sure L Plater why you have to wait, pretty much anyone can apply for trade entry, your a student ... welcome, have an asic ..., come on in ...... the application process is easy as and covers the gamet of most industry's and job titles, best way to beat the crowds!!

[Squawk7700]

He probably has a real job LOL.

[Down and Welded]

The JSF will only be on display. Look... it flew in here and it will fly out on Sunday. It beggars belief that it couldn't be displayed in the air during the show. What cock-eyed imperative was thought to be more important than a modest flying display at Avalon in 2017. The Australian public--after all--are paying 17 billion for 72 of them.

This year will be a perfect opportunity for Trump America to do a bit of showing-off. One hopes the organisers--through their defence and political connections--have had Hockey lobbying for them in 'the Swamp'. The usual B52 and Bone plus tanker from Guam are getting a bit ho-hum, I'm afraid.

[gerry111]

Ah the JSF.. What a marvellous aircraft!

Stealthy but slow. With not much range without unstealthy air to air refuelling.

Ordnance? Well not much as any external stores make it unstealthy.

One starling down the intake and it's very expensive scrap metal.

And now the Chinese reckon that they have the technology to identify it.

A total waste of $17 billion of Australian taxpayers money.

(PS: Down and Welded. The Schofields Air Display in 1983 had a B52H fly in from Guam too.)

[Lookleft]

From what I remember gerry, Schofields 83 was a very wet event. By the end of the day even the classy ladies in their high heel shoes were sloshing through the mud with the rest of us.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Ah the JSF.. What a marvellous aircraft!

Stealthy but slow. With not much range without unstealthy air to air refuelling.

Ordnance? Well not much as any external stores make it unstealthy.

One starling down the intake and it's very expensive scrap metal.

And now the Chinese reckon that they have the technology to identify it.

A total waste of $17 billion of Australian taxpayers money.

You forgot to mention ugly.

You know something's not right when Lockheed put an ugly aeroplane into production.

[Squawk7700]

Even the Bairnsdale air show around 2000-2001 had a B52 from Guam !

[thorn bird]

Well the US Prez seems rather fond of throwing hand grenades over the fence.
He told Malcom the refugee swap was a dud deal.
I seem to recall him saying the JSF was a dud as well.
There's a chance for Mal to chuck a hand grenade back over the fence.
Send Juli to Washington and tell them because the Prez said the F-35 was a dud and overpriced we are considering cancelling the order.
Now wouldn't that would put the cat among the pidgins!!

[Sunfish]

Just looked at the Airshow website. Not impressive. I was led to believe the SAAA was exhibiting, also Bert Flood imports, I wanted to talk Rotax to someone, specifically alleged multiple gearbox failures in the 912iS and maybe a look at the new turbo engine. Neither company is mentioned as an exhibitor. Horsham Aviation isn't attending so no Dynon and if the Garmin stand behaves as usual they will have a rotten sales team.

I still have to spend about $7k -$8k for radios, a new PLB and a transponder, but I doubt there is anything informative on that subject at YMAV.

General perception from reading the program - same old, same old, of no real interest to an actual pilot. The event is more for schmoozing for people who either don't fly, or if they do, the Government pays for it (RAAF).

As for Friday night and the public display, go ahead and watch, its for kids, cloud bunnies, spotters and aerosexuals.

If I hadn't already paid my $65 I wouldn't go tomorrow at least based on the sales literature anyway.- its three hour drive each way However I have a mate getting a stent put in on Thursday in Melbourne, so I guess I can be out of Avalon early to go and visit him.

[Squawk7700]

I was led to believe the SAAA was exhibiting, also Bert Flood imports, I wanted to talk Rotax to someone, specifically alleged multiple gearbox failures in the 912iS and maybe a look at the new turbo engine



Floods have a retail shop - go there!

I got plenty of emails from the SAAA about their stand. Has that been cancelled???

[Down and Welded]

Sunfish... "General perception from reading the program - same old, same old..."
My sentiments also. It'll be good, but as you say...

Had a buff from Guam do a flypast at a pageant at Port Hedland many eons ago, couple of circuits... one dirty and slow, one not. Then it chuffed off over to the coast out of sight over the sand dunes, then popped up lined up for rwy 18. Asked "what height...?" Tower said "Not above 100." Came down 18... biggest cloud of dust ever, then pulled up almost vertical and climbed out on 8 big pillars of smoke and tracked away for Learmonth. Spectacular!

Now THAT was a handling display.

[thunderbird five]

Cancelled? Negatory Squawker, (as you know anyway, your intel is good). I'm reliably informed, today, that there is a whole bunch of folks setting up THURS there. Full steam ahead, bugger the sun-loving icebergs.

[tartare]

I'm just hoping that I can listen to the sound of freedom at Avalon without some commentator spod wittering constantly over the loudspeakers.
At least let the jets fly past without talking - save the wittering for the downwind legs...

[josephfeatherweight]

I'm just hoping that I can listen to the sound of freedom at Avalon without some commentator spod wittering constantly over the loudspeakers.
You can't - especially when the hyper-enthusiastic US commentator spruiks his stuff during the F22 display.
BUT, it is a pretty impressive display! And loud!

[Sunfish]

went today, spent three hours there. Beautifully organised with meticulous attention to detail. valuable content for a GA pilot? Zero. boring as bat****. highlights? Diamond DA62 looks nice but with the ugliest looking engine nacelles i've ever seen for their diesel engines. loved walking inside an Antonov again, i wonder how they will pay for the fuel to get home this time?

trade show full of salesmen sucking up to the airforce. Garmin display pathetic.

Best stand? Bureau of meteorology, informative and friendly. they gave me a pen!

i left about 1pm, the flying display was a bore. only another two hours drive to get home.

[gassed budgie]

You can't - especially when the hyper-enthusiastic US commentator spruiks his stuff during the F22 display.
BUT, it is a pretty impressive display! And loud!

That's the only reason I'm pulling the 210 out of the hangar and going. Never seen an F-22 in the flesh before, so looking forward to it. I like loud!

But having attended various airshows over the last 50 years (including a two or three at Avalon), I'd probably have to side with Sunny and suggest that other than the F-22, the rest will be as boring as bat****.

I can still remember some of the RAAF shows at Laverton back in the late '60's, early '70's that Dad took us to. One in particular that I can remember, was where a trio of Mirage's were doing their thing in front of the crowd. They departed stage left, but what the airshow patrons didn't see coming was the second trio of Mirage's approaching from behind the crowd. They wouldn't have been much higher than 100'AGL, were probably almost transonic and the afterburner's were lit.

The little old ladies screamed, the fat 6'4" tall bruiser standing beside me fainted and the rest of us had the ****ter blown right out of us!!! They were the days. It must've made an impression, because I can still recall it vividly decades down the track. I dont expect to see anything like that at Avalon in 2017.

[spinex]

I see a little chatter elsewhere about some unfortunate bugger parking their RV over at Avalon East, in a manner other than mentioned in the manual. Nasty way to start your visit:{

[KiwiBoyZac]

The official Facebook page posted this 6min ago:

The JSF to fly at Avalon Saturday and Sunday!
See the mighty Joint Strike Fighter take to the sky this weekend on both Saturday and Sunday of AIRSHOW 2017.
This will be a once-in-a lifetime opportunity to see this amazing state-of-the-art jet fighter in the air on its Australian debut.
The Royal Australian Air Force has made special arrangements for the aircraft to fly on both the Saturday and Sunday of the event.
Also, the Joint Strike Fighter will be on static display for patrons to see on the ground on the Friday afternoon, Saturday and Sunday public sessions of the Airshow.

[Capn Bloggs]

F-35 vs F-22. Bring it on! :}

[Down and Welded]

Well... they heard me. They've changed their mind and the F35 will fly. But would you believe it... on Sat and Sun only... and I'll be there on Friday!! Oh well, you can't win 'em all. At least SOMEONE will get to see it fly (apart from arriving and departing).

[ACMS]

Sunfish----you are one hard to please SOB. I spent 7 hours there today taking in and breathing AVIATION of all sorts, it was excellent as usual. I'm going again tomorrow.:)

Thanks to my friends and colleagues running the show, great job as usual guys/girls. :ok:

They work literally 20 hours a day piecing all this together.:ooh: I kid you not.

If you don't like it then just DON'T GO.:D

[cattletruck]

Well, I did enjoy the show today.

First off, greeted by a Harrier at the entrance that apparently was saved from the pohms dumping it in a tip.
Didn't find much interesting in the stalls this year, but didn't look hard enough into the smaller stalls.
Lots of mil and corp stuff outside - the usual offerings and a bit more this year.
Going hyper-tech seems to be the biggest growth industry - UAVs, AWS, Helmets, etc. which seems to be leaving no limelight for ye traditional piston banger.
Great surprise to see the B1 arrive and taxi to a stop in front of me.
Got a good look-see of a G550, but apparently there were water plumbing issues on the 8X meaning I missed out.
As usual, I found the staff and exhibitors to be very friendly, thank you.
Finally left at 6pm as the RAN Squirrels doubled up their display.

[Stikybeke]

Well this year due to circumstances beyond my control I can't attend. I haven't missed many of these and have always had a great day regardless of WX or whatsoever. For those of you fortunate enough to be attending I hope that you have the best day.
Enjoy
Stiky👍

[gerry111]

Bugger, Stiky!

I'd heard a rumour that yr right has a stall, advertising his engine rebuilding services. (Apparently with quite a few burnt clys to show to those who run so dangerously LOP.) :)

[KiwiBoyZac]

First off, greeted by a Harrier at the entrance that apparently was saved from the pohms dumping it in a tip.
I've heard the Harrier is to be returned to flight. Someone must have massively deep pockets!

[Sunfish]

ACMS, I do not criticise the volunteers or the huge amount of work that goes into staging the event. My advice for people who want entertainment is to go this weekend, but take hats and sunscreen.

What I said was that there was little of value at the show that is going to be of value to a GA pilot. By that I mean things that are going to make you a better pilot and enhance your aviation experience that can not be found outside Avalon without the $65 fee. I put in a total of Seven hours of driving yesterday to see the show and it was a waste of time I could have used elsewhere.

I like to be engaged with what entertains me. I don't need to see the latest military hardware since I played with that stuff as a youngster. Big Iron doesn't interest me much since I worked in the engineering division of an airline as well as an aerospace/defence company. I used to eat my lunch in the cockpit of a B767 (with the admonition not to touch anything!).

SAAA were just setting up, as was RAA. No Bert Flood imports stand, had a look at some homebuilts which were nice. Looked in the Antonov, I am always impressed by its superb Russian engineering. DO I need to listen to fast noisy jets and get more sunburn? Not really, home I went.

[josephfeatherweight]

I put in a total of Seven hours of driving yesterday to see the show and it was a waste of time I could have used elsewhere.
But, as per ALL of your sad-sack previous posts on the subject, you knew that was going to be the case already, didn't you?

[Stikybeke]

Not to worry Gerry,
I'm pretty sure Jabba is down there and if anyone can sniff out that stand he most definitely will!!

Enjoy yourself and hopefully the weather is kind to you☀️
Stiky 👍👍

[azure70]

Will be dragging my little G5 out of the hanger for a run down to Avalon too.
Being jet powered i can get out of bed fashionably late and will overtake that bloke in the Cessna enroute, i may spot him below wobbling along with the seagulls as a sip Bollinger at FL450.

[Squawk7700]

I don't know why you wasted your precious time Sunfish, you made the exact same comments after the last Avalon airshow. I'll try and go back and find them, it will be interesting. From memory you also complained back then about a lack of Garmin and other GA related vendors.

[john_tullamarine]

Two ship F35 form flew in (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/03/03/first-australian-f35-jets-make-public-debut.html) for the high rankers (I guess the RAAF ran itself for a few hours) and politicians this morning.

Ten minutes late awaiting the last of the VIPs on a 38SQN B350 so they stooged about to the south and then hooked in via the You Yangs for a couple of run and breaks. A good, if brief, noise session.

This should end up being one very good airshow machine in the future ...

[gerry111]

Just so marvellous to see Malcolm talking tough with Christopher beside him.

(Marise looked a tad, WTF moment, lost?)

It's all about technology; security; growth and jobs. A great shot in my arm!

How many air to air refuels did the JSF's need from Amberley? Or did they stage via Williamtown?

[Fantome]

I can still remember some of the RAAF shows at Laverton back in the late '60's, early '70's that Dad took us to. One in particular that I can remember, was where a trio of Mirage's were doing their thing in front of the crowd. They departed stage left, but what the airshow patrons didn't see coming was the second trio of Mirage's approaching from behind the crowd. They wouldn't have been much higher than 100'AGL, were probably almost transonic and the afterburner's were lit.

The Mirage had to be the sexiest shape in the sky in it's hey day.
What happened to the one parked outside at Wang a few years ago?
An ex-RAAF was said to have bought it for restoration to flyable.

[Sunfish]

Featherweight and Squawk, I am an optimist by nature. The fact that I was prepared to part with $65 and drive for Three hours to get to Avalon demonstrates that.

However, I stand by my conclusion, as entertainment, Avalon will be excellent this weekend, however if you are interested in learning things of value to piloting a GA aircraft, its a waste of time.

My general conclusion from Avalon is that nobody gives a flying **** about GA in this country, Worse, CASA's active ramping of GA aircraft visiting Avalon demonstrates their utter contempt for GA.

[tartare]

Jesus sunfish, get a life.
The show was worth the flight from Sydney and the 118km drive from Mt Eliza where I'm staying with mates just to laugh at that Raptor commentary.
Moan, moan, moan...

[Jabberwocky82]

Looking forward to going in tomorrow, expecting it to be busy but it's the only day my mate and his son can come in. Any tips on what to do to get there etc from those who have been?
Cheers

[PoppaJo]

Great work from the ATC

ntIYo0-i8pI

[Kiwiconehead]

The show was worth the flight from Sydney and the 118km drive from Mt Eliza where I'm staying with mates just to laugh at that Raptor commentary.

The F16 commentary got plenty of laughs too - I had my earplugs in for both.

[KiwiBoyZac]

I think the same F-16 guy did Ohakea last weekend too, I couldn't help but laugh! "The F-Sixteeeeeeeeeeeen Fighting Falcooon!"

Unfortunately the airworthy Mirage restoration was stopped a while back, I think because of money.

[tartare]

Yeah Xac we laughed at that too. Fvck the F-35 was loud - bloody brilliant. Nothing like a climb away from the crowd on full burner - you could feel the grandstand shake.

[gerry111]

The Mirage, Fantome and KiwiBoyZac referred to (A3-42) spent several years at YMEN in a hangar. More recently, it has become part of the HARS static collection at YWOL.

[Squawk7700]

Just looked at the Airshow website. Not impressive. I was led to believe the SAAA was exhibiting, also Bert Flood imports, I wanted to talk Rotax to someone, specifically alleged multiple gearbox failures in the 912iS and maybe a look at the new turbo engine. Neither company is mentioned as an exhibitor.


I had an enjoyable time talking with SAAA representatives at Avalon yesterday as well as talking with Bert Flood imports about their range of Rotax engines and also questioned them on the alleged gearbox issues on the IS engines caused by owners using 72 inch props rather than 68 as the gear box specifications are different on this engine.

Sunfish - you had your eyes closed dude... although in your defence, maybe you went too early and they weren't set up yet.

[Sandy Reith]

went today, spent three hours there. Beautifully organised with meticulous attention to detail. valuable content for a GA pilot? Zero. boring as bat****. highlights? Diamond DA62 looks nice but with the ugliest looking engine nacelles i've ever seen for their diesel engines. loved walking inside an Antonov again, i wonder how they will pay for the fuel to get home this time?

trade show full of salesmen sucking up to the airforce. Garmin display pathetic.

Best stand? Bureau of meteorology, informative and friendly. they gave me a pen!

i left about 1pm, the flying display was a bore. only another two hours drive to get home.
My take on another thread, agree ugly nacelles and lack of GA, it's still dying.

[Andy_RR]

Did anyone spot Marice Payne's glistening Growler...?

[0ttoL]

F-35 JSF CANCELLED flying display on Sunday.
Apparently due to storms around Amberley and the fact that these 2 units do not yet have lightning protection.
RAAF release Flying Operations - Royal Australian Air Force (http://www.airforce.gov.au/Operations/Flying-Operations/?RAAF-hPR1ZyeqIMWKiaNtrjPMdufiX/RBJSoR)

The display on Saturday was tame, to say the least. High speed/Low speed passes only

[gerry111]

I see..

Australia buys outrageously expensive but fairly useless military aircraft. Then the Yanks dictate when and where we fly them in our own country.

So the poor little darlings can't fly in thunderstorms. What a bad joke!

[thunderbird five]

Hang on:

F-35 couldn't fly TODAY due to thunderstorms 1400km away and so it's going home TOMORROW?

"Due to weather in Amberley the F-35A will now depart Avalon Air Show on Monday, 6 March rather than Sunday, 5 March as previously scheduled."

If it sounds like BS, and it smells like BS, it's most likely BS.

[Jabberwocky82]

All these aircraft need the ALIS to land. Willytown isn't set up with the ALIS system. Avalon has the only portable unit available at the moment.
Without ALIS, no gen 5 aircraft can operate. Amberley has it from having the later gen Hornets.

Hence bad weather, no take off.

[Squawk7700]

Hang on:

F-35 couldn't fly TODAY due to thunderstorms 1400km away and so it's going home TOMORROW?

"Due to weather in Amberley the F-35A will now depart Avalon Air Show on Monday, 6 March rather than Sunday, 5 March as previously scheduled."

If it sounds like BS, and it smells like BS, it's most likely BS.

Sounds like it's only authorized for X number of flights. Delaying to Monday means an extra start and flight for Sunday. Who knows... possibly maintenance related as it did fly from the US last week and is about to return again. Authorized for X number of cycles???

[gerry111]

I see..

So an enemy disables the ground based ALIS system while our F-35A's are airborne. What happens then?

The more one finds out about the JSF, the more one realises what a complete waste of taxpayers' money these aircraft have become.

They'll make the Seasprite helicopters look like a tiny waste of money.

[Squawk7700]

All these aircraft need the ALIS to land. Willytown isn't set up with the ALIS system. Avalon has the only portable unit available at the moment.
Without ALIS, no gen 5 aircraft can operate. Amberley has it from having the later gen Hornets.

Hence bad weather, no take off.

But where are the aircraft right now, as in Sunday, are they at Avalon or Amberley?

The press release reads like they are in Avalon, hence why the above makes no sense.

[Jabberwocky82]

They are at Avalon. The only other place they can land is Amberley, which was scratched due to weather.

[Squawk7700]

Just read elsewhere... that's not it.

The US only approved for X number of flights and they did not approve for a flight from Amberley, the Sat demo and Sun demo and reposition to Amberley. Therefore the Sunday demo had to be cut to allow for the Monday reposition flight as it would have departed on Sunday after the airshow demo, but it couldn't due weather.

That makes sense. It's likely to do with cycles and maintenance - an extra flight now could have flow-on impacts for training flights later. There are only 10 of these things flying apparently.

[gerry111]

Squawk7700,

Ottol's RAAF link provided the following, right at the beginning:

"Due to weather in Amberley the F35A will now depart Avalon Air Show on Monday, 6 March rather than Sunday 5 March as previously scheduled."

I'd interpret that to mean that they are currently at Avalon.

[Glasgow_Flyer]

This is maybe a bit off topic, or in the wrong spot or whatever, but how good was flying around the basin and the coastal route during the rush hour this evening (Sunday).
I was a little apprehensive before heading off it has to be said, but with such brilliant comms from everyone coming round the vfr route it just made the whole experience great fun- finished off my day very nicely!
Was a pleasure to be in the skies over Melb this evening!

[0ttoL]

I'm also hearing that the 4 ship F/A-18 display at the end of the day didn't happen also.
Any ideas what happened there?
(I went on Saturday and this was a very good display)

[gerry111]

There's a certain irony in that Australia's pampered pet F-35A's are to be known as 'Lightnings'.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Vot iss Diss..??

"Our" NEW Multi million$$$ fighter CANNOT land VFR at 'ANY' aerodrome....

Time to 'Arm Up' the ole DH82A.......

No Problemo......

:}

p.s. I'm sure I saw that thing land at Duxford...or was it @ the RAF Tatoo @ Fairford 'thingie' Last year....It sure 'hovered' for a while...Made a 'BIG Point of doing it 'stationery' in the prevailing W/V... and the NOISE....WELL!! THAT was 'something else again'.......

But can't land VFR... QUE ???

[Squawk7700]

Ex - Australia didn't buy the VTOL option - we took out that unit and swapped it for a fuel tank, otherwise it had a limited range not suited for Australian operations. (This is info from quite some time ago, so assuming still correct).

[IFEZ]

Hahaha spot on gerry111..! F35 'Lightning' indeed http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif


I went on the Friday this year just for something different. In some ways it was better than the weekend due to slightly smaller crowds but the flying display was not as comprehensive. Also seemed a bit disjointed at times as did some of the commentary which was cringeworthy in parts :ugh:.


So the F/A-18 4 ship display didn't happen yesterday..? Neither did the Roulettes on Friday. Pulled the pin because apparently it was too windy?! Anyone know the real reason..? Wind looked to be 20-25kts from the SSE. Enough to ground our premier 'cream of the crop' airforce display team..?? Well it didn't actually ground them, they took off in formation and never came back!! Conditions didn't seem to bother anyone else including the Harvards , the Pitts and the Tin Stix boys!


Military jets were a highlight as usual. And as others have already mentioned the US commentary on the F22 & F16's. Comedy gold :D


Special mention to the organisers of the night show. I have to admit I was a bit sceptical about what was on offer, and was considering bailing out early to beat the traffic, but stuck it out to the end and boy was it worth it. The fireworks at the end were spectacular!! :D Well done to whoever put that together http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


So summing up, whilst there was nothing much we hadn't already seen before, it was still worth going and had an enjoyable day out. Even getting out of the carpark at the end provided some further entertainment. Never ceases to amaze me how some people behave :ugh:

[Lancair70]

Well I went for first time since 09' and thoroughly enjoyed the flying display with my 2 sons. Number 2 son isn't too keen on extra loud noises normally so had ear protection for him, after the F35 takeoff, he said to me, "Daddy, I just learnt that while we cant touch noise, noise can certainly touch you!" Although the F35 display was a bit tame and kinda lame excuse about not having aero's qualified pilot it was fantastic to see it fly, pity it cant fly too far though. Highlight was the F-22, what an amazing machine, perhaps RAAF shoulda bought them. Another highlight was seeing the 2 F/A18's refuelling from the KC30.
Final highlight of the trip for me was the flight home on Sunday from MEL to BNE on ****stars 787. My first trip on one. Nice aeroplane, certainly leaps and bounds better than a click-n-clack A320.

[IFEZ]

Lancair70 yes the F22 is an awesome machine. But it proved too expensive even for the Yanks! With a unit cost North of $300M even they couldn't afford it. Still, maybe 24 of them would be better value for money than 72 of what we're about to be saddled with http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Rotor Work]

I spent Friday with a gold pass in the Sabre Stand.
I booked a seat on the top row, this gave us a breeze from the south southeast.
It was a good move as two years ago I cooked half way down the grandstand. The only issue on the top row is you have all the photographers with their telephoto lenses. When they stand, you have to as well otherwise you can't see what's coming from the north.

Transport went well from and too southern cross station & the volunteers did a great job on site.

Seemed to be a lot of moisture in the air as the vortices and vapor coming off the high speed jets especially the F22 was impressive.

Connie was the highlight once more, also the led lighting on the glider & sonex, the Herc flare drop, and the fire works. (Best I have seen)

Saturday I walked around with a general admission ticket.

Hopefully in 2019 it will be a smoke free event.

Enjoyed the weekend
Regards RW

[Lookleft]

I went with the missus on Saturday and I thought the flying display was great. It seems as though it was the best day to go. Anyone like to put forward an explanation as to why the F35 was so much noisier than the other jets? Is it because the engine was putting out more thrust to do its display. There doesn't seem to be much point in having stealth technology if it can be heard from over the horizon!From what I remember reading the F22 was never on offer from the US. The only 5th gen fighter foreigners could buy was the F35.

The displays by the Pitts' was terrific and the display with the Sukhoi was a highlight. I loved the sound of its radial compared to the angry buzz of the Pitts.

It was a great day out. All I can say to those who were once again disappointed about what was on offer is, don't go!

[Captain Dart]

I would like to thank the organisers, and especially the marshalers and ATC for an outstanding job, especially with the massed 'fly out' of lighties from Avalon Main late Sunday straight after the show.

Up there with Oshkosh!

[Stikybeke]

Well I might've missed Avalon but I won't be missing this!

Fourteen F-16 fighter jets from the United States Air Force will arrive at RAAF Base Williamtown on Tuesday 7th March to play the aggressor role (Red Air) in Exercise Diamond Shield which is the first of three Diamond Series exercises run by the RAAF Air Warfare Centre. The exercises are designed to train Fighter Combat Instructors, Airspace Battle Managers, Fighter Intelligence Instructors and Fighter Combat Controllers.!


Instant airshow for the month of March for Port Stephens....how good will this noise be:ok::ok::ok:

Stiky
:D

[aroa]

IFEZ... better wash yr mouth out.!!
No negative comments re the F 35 and 17 +billion $s allowed in Cantberra or elsewhere, please

See the articles in the Oz last week. Its better than sliced bread and will do the deadly trick when required...at range. Just hope those engines are really, really reliable !!

Propaganda or not, the same week the Chinese announced that they had mastered 'quantum radar' that can detect stealth aircraft from 100 miles out.

You can bet yr bottom dollar that everybody 'in opposition' has been working on all sorts of schmicky countermeasures during the F35s long gestation.

Read an article someplace where 35s took on a bunch of F16s...cleaned up most at long range...but got done in the close in dog fight.!

I'd like a PAK T 50 myself. 2 donks, supercruise, very long range, lots of weapons.

Have confidence in the RAAF who made the F 111 a successful and long lasting weapon.
Same with the F 35. ?
Hopefully !!

[aroa]

Re the F 22... didnt The Donald make some comment about re-starting the line for more.?
Latest mention was of hundreds more 35s and etc

All mega billions for the MIC...and good for US employment.

[Ivana Kransky]

Bwah ha ha ha !!

Nine news at 1130am.....reporter bloke standing next to F18 growler and refering to it as a "stealth aircraft with its panels designed to deflect radar" and behind me is a wedgetail......blah blah blah...(and then the cracker of all crackers) "this combination of aircraft makes the RAAF the best equipped airforce in the world...so good in fact it will take the US up to the mid 2020's to catch up......

Raaf types will be revelling in their newfound awesomeness and lethalness.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Have confidence in the RAAF who made the F-111 a successful and long lasting weapon.
Same with the F-35?

While some have highlighted the irony of naming the F-35 Lightning II, there may be parallels with the RAAF's wartime operation of the Lightning I. This was the PR version of the Lockheed P-38 Lightning which was known as the F-4. These aircraft were cutting edge technology when the RAAF began operating them in late 1942. There were only two of them and they were immediately deployed to remote bases in the NT where they were beset with unserviceabilities. By the time the locally produced PR Mosquito became available in numbers, the RAAF had just about beaten the Lightning into shape.

Of course the Lightning I was a twin - and it was also beautiful!

[Octane]

I'm going to sound a whinger, but I gave up on Avalon years ago.
Got sick of the broken promises, star attraction aircraft regularly not turning up at the last minute especially rankled. Then there was the absolute chaos getting in and out the place not to mention the over top crass commercialism.
Have fond memories of "lesser" events, Nowra way back, RAAF Richmond and even Mangalore.
I'm saving my pennies to go to Wanaka. That would be a real blast...

[fujii]

Agree Octane. I'm off to Omaka this year with two gold passes which I can only use Friday and Saturday. I plan on giving them away on Saturday after the show.

[tartare]

...and as to the JSF not being that much louder (according to official spin) what a load of tripe!
Loudest single engine jet I've heard - by a long shot.
It was bloody fantastic - everyone ran out of the tents blinking into the bright sunlight when it roared past on take off on Saturday morning.
I'll swear I felt the heat when it cranked round in one of those hi-g, knife-edge turns with all the moisture coming off the top of the wings - we were looking straight up the tailpipe!

[Lancair70]

Like this pic tartare ?

Not the best pic of it I took but not uploading it to a public forum.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/Biggles70/Misc/DSC_2043.jpg (http://s135.photobucket.com/user/Biggles70/media/Misc/DSC_2043.jpg.html)

[Octane]

Re F-35, State of the art Stealth whatever my ar$e, by the time they write the 24 million lines of code or whatever that's required to make the thing fully operational (maybe not in my lifetime), some dyslexic 15 year old genius will have found a way to detect the thing in his bedroom anyway.... That's if the machine will have the reliability to exit it's aircon hanger in the first place..
Sorry for the rant and being off topic...

[junior.VH-LFA]

Some of you are so far from the truth, its laughable.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Wasn't going till my youngest son expressed an interest. Not going to let a chance go by:p Prepared for the onslaught, right lane passed the Pt Henry turnoff down to the Lara entry point. Nearly an hour from stopping traffic till pulling up in Orange 49. Ten dollars to park? Really? $150.00 lighter at the gate after an invigorating walk of over a km. Noting, I arrived at AV at midday. Big crowd. Found a spot right on display midpoint in front of the Boeing hospitality tent and enjoyed the show. Highights Jurgis is fantastic, the Super Decathalon, glider aerobatics, and the jet sonex...methinks the talking heads lost the prepared talking points for that one...The H coming in low and fast from right under the display line outside the perimeter fence...hot stuff!
Never realised the aerodynamic work on the tips of the Poseidon were so extensive...wonder when this migrates back into the 73 fleet? Military iron, C17, what a machine! The 22, best spend of 300mill to build an airshow routine. Really, the invasion thing? The guys need to go back to the RAAF airshows of the seventies and eighties to work out Fire and Movement. The modern stuff is neither slick nor fast...cummmon, Shock and Awe us!

End of the show, did the usual and walked the static display line. The buzz for my youngest, and Larissa, if you read PRUNE, showing us your P3 made his day:ok: Over 2kliks back to the car but worth it to walk passed soo many cars queuing out. Back out via Lara and Old Melbourne Rd back to Little River, Cranbourne in under two hours. I'm old and jaded but my son loved it so...priceless :ok:

[cattletruck]

Loudest single engine jet I've heard - by a long shot.

Wasn't that also part of the criteria for selling F-16s to p!sspot regimes - take out all the good bits and stick in a loud engine - sold thousands.

Really liked the F22 Raptor display, met one the FJs later and asked whether all that copious use of afterburner was automatic - nope it was a very manual selection. He also explained the wing configuration used for the slow pass which was also done on full burners. :ok:

[gerry111]

junior.VH-LFA,

I'll defer to my rather wise, long departed, grandmother.

Her favourite comment at times like this was simply: "We'll see."

[Sunfish]

Colour, movement and noise, it attracts people. Glad you were all entertained. However as a learning experience for a GA pilot, Avalon, at least on the trade days, was a big fat zero.

Well, maybe not quite.... CASA's use of an air display to ramp check GA pilots flying in conclusively demonstrates their contempt for GA aviation. Did they ramp check any of the pilots of the shiny business jets and helicopters that were on display? Do they ramp check Jetstar? Of course not.

[ACMS]

OZBUSDRIVER:---- The P8 Poseidon has a raked wingtip basically the same as the 777-300ER and the 767-400ER. For some reason they didn't want the winglet like a standard 737NG, maybe something to do with the offensive/defensive equipment carried? Don't know maybe it's more efficient?


http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_17/wingtip_devices.html


Apparently they are more efficient, the NAVY need the range/performance but don't care about the extra span. Also they are apparently not certified for Civilian 737 use......too wide for some domestic airport gates so no operator wants them?

[Capn Bloggs]

What a great story from Ozbusdriver. :D

Those flaps on the F35 look a bit weird, or are both the ailerons down? :confused:

[wishiwasupthere]

And right on cue, Sunfish to remind everyone that he's a perennial whinger.

[tartare]

Nah - we just told the CASA guys to look out for you Sunfish.
Lancair - that's the one!!!
Avalon - my kind of show.
Loud, politically incorrect display of force-projection and killing machinery.
Excellent.

[Squawk7700]

And right on cue, Sunfish to remind everyone that he's a perennial whinger.

and blind :-)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~bc75/rotax1.jpg

[planeloader]

Lancair70 yes the F22 is an awesome machine. But it proved too expensive even for the Yanks! With a unit cost North of $300M even they couldn't afford it. Still, maybe 24 of them would be better value for money than 72 of what we're about to be saddled with http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif
I don't think we need the F-35,s money could have been better spent on more super Hornets, but typical useless Australian Government always wanting to keep up with the yanks. By the time we take full ownership of them the Government that placed the order are no longer in office and its the new government that's to got deal with the problems. The same with the Eurocopter Tiger, we have had them for about 10 years now and still not up to 100% capability, we should have gone for track proven Apache.

[Sunfish]

Squawk, ,there is no mention of SAAA or Bert Flood imports in the official directory of exhibitors, neither was there a Rotax stand on Thursday. If there had been, I would have clung to it like a drowning man.

I stand by my point, which a few others have also made, which is that General Aviation was totally ignored by the Airshow Organizers, or if not ignored, the lack of GA exhibitors demonstrates the rotten state of the GA industry in Australia. he Regulators behaviour in ramp checking GA aircraft as they arrived at Avalon demonstrates that the Government holds the entire sector in contempt.

I note that you even went to the lengths of taking and posting a photo of the Rotax stand for the sole purpose of annoying me.

Is it any wonder that GA is in trouble in Australia with people like you allegedly part of it?

[Squawk7700]

I note that you even went to the lengths of taking and posting a photo of the Rotax stand for the sole purpose of annoying me.

"Annoy" is a powerful word. I just wanted you to know that I wasn't making up the fact that it was there. Exhibit "A" some might call it :-)

[Down and Welded]

My 4th and last Avalon. Why? Because it's too much of the same (display-wise) and because it seems unable to attract even near-foreign display interest. In 2015 I think I recall even the Singaporeans flew. This year, not (at least on Friday). Both NZ and Canadian defence forces represented by C130 static displays. Even NZ?? Come on!

The F35s arrived, flew a couple of breaks, and landed. Lots of PA hype, but really, it was just another fast jet... with its cockpit canopy back-to-front. The Roulettes canned themselves due to a stiff breeze.

Uncle Sam's trusty Bone and KC135 were there as expected. The usual U.S. F16 did its usual routine with its excruciating, pre-recorded, media-wonk commentary. Most of the handling displays were the organiser's hardy perennials. Would love to have been surprised by something new. And who was really buying any GA light aircraft, corporate jets, or missiles? Was it at all worthwhile for the companies to have set them up? What meaningful business might have been transacted in those industry marquees? Any? Really? The Australian 'International' Airshow has become cringeworthy and provincial... a national embarrassment.

Is part of the problem that our organisers insist on calling it the Australian International Airshow? Might that bit of self-congratulatory knob-pulling actually put off some of the national forces in our region? There's nothing on the US airshow circuit that is labelled United States International Airshow. Paris is not called the French International Airshow. Farnborough is not presented as the UK International Airshow. Might Avalon be in the death-grip of an overly self-satisfied club of retired Air Marshals, industry sinecurists, and flying club life members? Does the whole thing need a total rethink? I think yes, and yes. For God's sake, yes!

Unless you're Ozbusdriver, there for the first time with a youngster who is going to be blown away by the noise and spectacle such as it is, it has become a bore. As for the High Flyer's Club... totally emblematic of the profiteering rip-off that this event has become.

Have no idea what I'm bitching about? Can't see what my problem is? Never seen a REAL, thrilling, entertaining airshow? You need to see Oshkosh, b'gosh! Until then, you're not on the same page as me.

[junior.VH-LFA]

It's amazing how Australia with a population of 24 million people can't seem to generate the same type of airshow as the Oshkosh in the US.. Damn near mystifying, hopefully the brains trust will be able to figure it out.

[fl610]

junior.VH-LFA I think you are missing the point. I totally agree with what Down and Welded has said. I think most would realise that we don't have the capacity or the numbers to run an event like Oshkosh, however as a teenager I went to several airshows at Amberly and they were spectacular, even my local aero club (Toowoomba) could put on an airshow which not only drew huge crowds, they were throughly enjoyed by everyone who attended. Of course I acknowledge that these were days prior to internet, cable TV, mobile phones and the countless other distractions that run peoples lives these days. The biggest difference being that there was absolute passion and enthusiasm displayed by everyone involved, before that was crushed by an overbearing regulator! When you have time take a look at the following link. Shock horror, not a fluro vest in sight! Doing dangerous stuff near crowds of people! At night! Nobody died, or even injured! Why???? Just a few of my observations: The Military as well as airlines and most organizations attracted and employed the best and the brightest people in our society, spent some money on training them to the highest possible standard which resulted in stuff like you will see in that link. Unfortunately this excluded a large number of people, so what happened next? We kept lowering the bar so that more and more could be included, resulting in quotas needing to be met etc. etc. Before you come back to me that I am racist, non inclusive, sexist or whatever is the current correct PC term to describe me, I grew up in a household with enlightened parents (of course not realised by me at the time) who treated both my sister and I equally and encouraged us to become the best that we could be. It was not until my sister obtained her first job doing research in a laborotory (she was much smarter than me as I only became an airline pilot) and I found out that she was paid less than her male colleagues for doing exactly the same job that I realised that not everyone is treated fairly or had the benefit of growing up as we did. (Yep, naive I know). Anyway my entire life I have believed in equal pay for equal work, equal rights for everyone no matter what race, colour, creed, gender, sexual orientation etc. However what I will never accept is equal pay for unequal work, such as many female tennis players claiming that they should be paid the same as the men? By all means when they start playing five sets instead of three, put the hand out for the extra cash, however if you then want to play the - well women aren't as strong as men, you are picking on me because I'm different etc. then I maintain that they just need to suck it up! Hope that you enjoy the video.

https://youtu.be/s0SN3tG4Atk

[rjtjrt]

My 4th and last Avalon. Why? Because it's too much of the same (display-wise) and because it seems unable to attract even near-foreign display interest. In 2015 I think I recall even the Singaporeans flew. This year, not (at least on Friday). Both NZ and Canadian defence forces represented by C130 static displays. Even NZ?? Come on!

The F35s arrived, flew a couple of breaks, and landed. Lots of PA hype, but really, it was just another fast jet... with its cockpit canopy back-to-front. The Roulettes canned themselves due to a stiff breeze.

Uncle Sam's trusty Bone and KC135 were there as expected. The usual U.S. F16 did its usual routine with its excruciating, pre-recorded, media-wonk commentary. Most of the handling displays were the organiser's hardy perennials. Would love to have been surprised by something new. And who was really buying any GA light aircraft, corporate jets, or missiles? Was it at all worthwhile for the companies to have set them up? What meaningful business might have been transacted in those industry marquees? Any? Really? The Australian 'International' Airshow has become cringeworthy and provincial... a national embarrassment.

Is part of the problem that our organisers insist on calling it the Australian International Airshow? Might that bit of self-congratulatory knob-pulling actually put off some of the national forces in our region? There's nothing on the US airshow circuit that is labelled United States International Airshow. Paris is not called the French International Airshow. Farnborough is not presented as the UK International Airshow. Might Avalon be in the death-grip of an overly self-satisfied club of retired Air Marshals, industry sinecurists, and flying club life members? Does the whole thing need a total rethink? I think yes, and yes. For God's sake, yes!

Unless you're Ozbusdriver, there for the first time with a youngster who is going to be blown away by the noise and spectacle such as it is, it has become a bore. As for the High Flyer's Club... totally emblematic of the profiteering rip-off that this event has become.

Have no idea what I'm bitching about? Can't see what my problem is? Never seen a REAL, thrilling, entertaining airshow? You need to see Oshkosh, b'gosh! Until then, you're not on the same page as me.
Farnborough does call itself Farnborough International Airshow.
Farnborough International Airshow Trade 2016 - Welcome to the world?s greatest airshow (http://www.farnborough.com)

RAF Air Tattoo Fairford does as well
Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises - Home Page (http://www.airtattoo.com)

Abbotsford Canada - yes they do as well.
https://www.abbotsfordairshow.com

Paris - another that calls itself International
https://www.siae.fr/en/

[Sunfish]

VH-LFA: It's amazing how Australia with a population of 24 million people can't seem to generate the same type of airshow as the Oshkosh in the US.. Damn near mystifying, hopefully the brains trust will be able to figure it out.

While we are talking percentages, Avalon can't even produce 5% of what Oshkosh does.

[TBM-Legend]

In this country we complain about a free bar-d-que...

[fujii]

While we are talking percentages, 75% of people who quote percentages make them up and 52% of others believe them.

[bentleg]

Oshkosh is directed at GA. Avalon is not. A comparison is like comparing apples and oranges.

Some USAF guys told me the US shows they go to are "airport" shows, not national events. They were impressed with the numbers at Avalon. They don't go to Oshkosh.

[IFEZ]

I can see where Down and Welded is coming from, but isn't it pretty much 'horses for courses'..? There's no doubt that Avalon has a certain 'sameness' about it every time, but I mainly go to see the military jets get put through their paces, as I never get sick of seeing that and it's the only chance to see them up so close. I still get excited watching them even at my age (yeah I know, I need to get a life!). Some of the other stuff is a bit 'ho-hum' but that gives you a chance to wander around and be entertained by the likes of the pretentious wankers getting a guided tour of a G650, (as if they're actually going to buy one - I mean seriously, as if anyone who's in the market for one of these is going to inspect one & buy it on the spot at Avalon).


If you don't like Avalon, some of the other smaller airshows are also worth going to like Tyabb, and also Temora when they are on.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that Avalon doesn't satisfy everyone, but judging by the size of the crowds that turn up every time its on, there are plenty of people who still like it. For some, especially those looking for heaps of GA stuff, its not so good.


For GA buffs, there's no doubt Oshkosh is the pinnacle. Hopefully I can get over there to witness it 1st hand while I'm still upright.


PS - fl610 Dear God, nooooo! Who in their right mind would want to watch 5 sets of women's tennis! I'd rather pay them the extra money to NOT play 5! http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

[fl610]

IFEZ :D:D Fair call :ok:

[Al E. Vator]

Great Airshow. Loved it - so did my 17yo. Will go again.
Please fix the traffic jams

[Lancair70]

RE Traffic Jams. In 2009 I flew to Melbourne, stayed in the city and hired a car to get to Avalon. This year I flew to Melbourne, got an Uber to my hotel in North Melbourne, tram to Southern Cross and took the train and shuttle bus to the airshow. MUCH easier option and much quicker to get there and back!

[Down and Welded]

rjtjrt and bentleg--in their own ways--have missed my point. rjtjrt, re-read my 4th paragraph (if you want to... really, it doesn't matter). I totally understand about population comparisons and the critical mass thingy. And of course, I'm not suggesting that Avalon could compete as a GA spectacle with the likes of Oshkosh. What I'm trying to articulate is [1] Avalon, as a regular public event is too much the same over time. The organisers should not be relying on the first-time attendance of excited dads and their awestruck kids to measure their public success. They need to add new displays each year--and not just whiz-bang ones for the awestruck kids--and find ways to get regional countries to participate. [2] Picking up that last comment, it may not be helpful to market yourself as the 'Australian' international Airshow. After all, what other countries that conduct internationally-known airshows jam their nationality down everyones throat? ...this being the point missed by rjtjrt. If you were the chief of the Indonesian or Malaysian Air Force might you not feel more enthusiastic about participating in--for example--an Asia-Pacific Airshow than an Australian one). Why do we not even have, at the very least, active and enthusiastic Kiwi participation? [3] Do we need more professional event organising than we seem to be getting? (Are the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies organised by a geriatric bunch of old athletic has-beens? I don't think so.) [4] Do we need to actively seek out the critiques of attendees without keeling over into a wallowing morass of self-righteous indignation? YES, we do.

Just a very few of my considered thoughts.

[rjtjrt]

Down and Welded.
Fair enough, I see now what you're point is.

[Squawk7700]

the likes of the pretentious wankers getting a guided tour of a G650, (as if they're actually going to buy one - I mean seriously, as if anyone who's in the market for one of these is going to inspect one & buy it on the spot at Avalon).


You might be surprised should you know the truth. It's an opportunity for business representatives to come along and take a look at equipment from multiple vendors that would normally take multiple interstate and overseas trips.

You wouldn't think they would bring G650's or similar from the US time and time again for no return would you?

Alternatively, think of it this way... why would a company such as Billabong / Quiksilver or any other major clothing brand put a retail store at Times Square NYC where the rent would likely be 100 times the value of their turnover, let alone profit - its product placement and marketing.

Some of the exhibits in the trade hall had some SERIOUS cash behind them, the setup alone many many thousands of dollars let alone rental for the hall space.

[The name is Porter]

Oshkosh is directed at GA. Avalon is not. A comparison is like comparing apples and oranges.

Oshkosh is NOT directed at GA, It's run by the Experimental Aircraft Association, the focus is on experimental aircraft. That doesn't stop GA, the military, airlines, warbirds or anybody else rocking up. The show handles heavy aircraft, mediums whatever. It doesn't shut the airport down and create an exclusion zone around an RPT arrival.

You can directly compare any airshow on the face of the planet. Australia seems to think itself very special on the aviation front. The backslapping is embarrassing.

[gerry111]

At Avalon, I reckon that the RAAF should have simply allowed the kiddies to hold an operational F35A pilot's helmet. For they are really impressive!

(I've heard that they cost around $500k each.)

Your thoughts, junior.VH-LFA?

[junior.VH-LFA]

I do wish there was more stuff for the younger kids to be hands on involved in at Avalon. It was being on the wing of a DC-3 at age 6 that ignited the bug in me, and I'll never forget it.

WRT the JSF Helmet, considering the RAAF will only have 72 of them (one for each aircraft), I don't like anyone's chance other than the pilots and ALS crew getting their hands on them! Expensive piece of kit for sure, but when you consider what they can achieve and their cost relative to the entire program, probably worth it. I wonder how operable the aircraft is without it in the event of an inevitable U/S?

[Sunfish]

WRT the JSF Helmet, considering the RAAF will only have 72 of them (one for each aircraft),

Standardising head sizes of all those JSF pilot candidates is going to be quite painful.

[junior.VH-LFA]

Standardising head sizes of all those JSF pilot candidates is going to be quite painful.


I'm sure that was tongue in cheek, but to satisfy your curiosity, the helmets themselves are all the one size, a mold that is individual to the pilot is placed inside the helmet which allows it to fit.

[Sunfish]

...and the moulds come in three sizes; swollen, Ace of the base and Air Marshall.

[tartare]

One of the knucks flying the JSFs merrily swung his helmet by the strap as he stood there talking to a few VSOs by the new jet.
I am assuming it wasn't the half million dollar helmet - cos he was looking pretty casual with it!

[cattletruck]

If you were at the 2015 Avalon Airshow you could have trailed a real LM F35 helmet as did I. Not particular well moulded to my own pointy head but a LM rep was there holding it in place helping you get a feel of what it's like to use it - magic carpet ride is an understatement.

Re the the G650, well I had the private tour of the G550 and considering they've sold almost 500 of them I can understand why they keep turning up at Avalon.

Avalon Airshow 2017 was yet another great show, and again I would like to thank the participants, helpers and organisers for making it so.

[flopzone]

My 4th and last Avalon. Why? Because it's too much of the same (display-wise) and because it seems unable to attract even near-foreign display interest. In 2015 I think I recall even the Singaporeans flew. This year, not (at least on Friday). Both NZ and Canadian defence forces represented by C130 static displays. Even NZ?? Come on!

The F35s arrived, flew a couple of breaks, and landed. Lots of PA hype, but really, it was just another fast jet... with its cockpit canopy back-to-front. The Roulettes canned themselves due to a stiff breeze.

Uncle Sam's trusty Bone and KC135 were there as expected. The usual U.S. F16 did its usual routine with its excruciating, pre-recorded, media-wonk commentary. Most of the handling displays were the organiser's hardy perennials. Would love to have been surprised by something new. And who was really buying any GA light aircraft, corporate jets, or missiles? Was it at all worthwhile for the companies to have set them up? What meaningful business might have been transacted in those industry marquees? Any? Really? The Australian 'International' Airshow has become cringeworthy and provincial... a national embarrassment.

Is part of the problem that our organisers insist on calling it the Australian International Airshow? Might that bit of self-congratulatory knob-pulling actually put off some of the national forces in our region? There's nothing on the US airshow circuit that is labelled United States International Airshow. Paris is not called the French International Airshow. Farnborough is not presented as the UK International Airshow. Might Avalon be in the death-grip of an overly self-satisfied club of retired Air Marshals, industry sinecurists, and flying club life members? Does the whole thing need a total rethink? I think yes, and yes. For God's sake, yes!

Unless you're Ozbusdriver, there for the first time with a youngster who is going to be blown away by the noise and spectacle such as it is, it has become a bore. As for the High Flyer's Club... totally emblematic of the profiteering rip-off that this event has become.

Have no idea what I'm bitching about? Can't see what my problem is? Never seen a REAL, thrilling, entertaining airshow? You need to see Oshkosh, b'gosh! Until then, you're not on the same page as me.
I agree totally.

I will also throw in the fact that this event is more of a display of aircraft now than an airshow. Heavy reliance on RAAF, is cheating big time for an "International Airshow".

What is worse, is that if you do some digging, this event, the organisation that runs it and the organisation that owns that company, and many others, claims full charitable status.

On the same webpage, this organisation, claims to be is now run by Aerospace Australia Ltd who says this

Aerospace Australia Limited is also a member of the not-for-profit group headed by Aerospace Maritime and Defence Foundation of Australia Limited.

The corporate purpose of Aerospace Australia Limited is to promote the development of aviation and Australian industrial, manufacturing and information/communications technology resources with respect to aviation, aerospace and defence.

This event is advertised as a public airshow, but ASDU website now denies this.
It goes on to say that all invitees and performances are controlled fully by the RAAF.

Seriously, its become a big con job, funding lavish lifestyles for a select few. Its as dirty as the GP as far as hidden payments go.

To cap it all off, ticket sales are around 12 million, the organisation declares a pretty reliable 15 million in profits.

What Charity does this money go to ?

I am all for it being a Defence Expo, but dont expect the public to pay for it by pretending it is an airshow. You cant have it both ways.

[Sunfish]

On the same webpage, this organisation, claims to be is now run by Aerospace Australia Ltd who says this

Aerospace Australia Limited is also a member of the not-for-profit group headed by Aerospace Maritime and Defence Foundation of Australia Limited.

The corporate purpose of Aerospace Australia Limited is to promote the development of aviation and Australian industrial, manufacturing and information/communications technology resources with respect to aviation, aerospace and defence.

This event is advertised as a public airshow, but ASDU website now denies this.
It goes on to say that all invitees and performances are controlled fully by the RAAF.

That explains a lot. Avalon is just a big defence circle jerk. No wonder there is no GA component, the RAAF hates GA.

[Awol57]

Given on the website the trade days are advertised as "Australian International Aerospace and Defence Exposition" I am not overly surprised there wasn't much GA there.

If the banner said Australian Internation GA expo I may have been quite dissapointed.

https://www.airshow.com.au/airshow2017/index.asp

[Critical Reynolds No]

Did I read somewhere that you can get in for free on the trade days if you have a valid ASIC?

[Squawk7700]

Unfortunately it's not free to Joe Public the Pilot.

[ACMS]

Nope.........