ATPL Airlaw Oz

[Papi_Chulo]

Call me an imp but for the life of me I can't work out this practice question.

How many turn and slip indicators must be fitted and serviceable for a VFR charter flight in the B737

a. None
b. One, if it has a duplicate power source.
c. One, whether or not it has a duplicate power source.
d. Two, if their power source is not duplicated.
e. Two, whether or not the power source is duplicated.

Answer: a. None!

I've had similar questions such as this relating to a B727 which has the same answer. The only logical reason I can think of for having none is that the EADI and accompanying systems are serviceable through 360 degrees pitch but how is someone to know that having not flow a B737. :ugh:

Anyone with some VFR charter experience in a B737 care to explain?

[Tankengine]

VFR.

737 is a red herring.

[Virtually There]

737 is not a red herring - it is a turbo-jet over 5700kg. You shouldn't need to have flown a 737 to know that . . .

CAO 20.18

3 Instrumentation for flight under the Visual Flight Rules (the V.F.R.)
RPT aeroplanes and large charter aeroplanes
3.1 An aeroplane engaged in:
(a) a regular public transport (RPT) operation; or
(b) a charter operation that has maximum take-off weight exceeding 5 700 kg — a charter operation;
may only be operated under the V.F.R. if it is equipped with the following:
(c) the instruments specified in Appendix II;

Appendix II
Instruments required for:
(i) aeroplanes engaged in RPT operations; and
(ii) aeroplanes engaged in charter operations which have a maximum take-off weight greater than 5 700 kg
1 The flight and navigation instruments required are:
(a) an airspeed indicating system with means of preventing malfunctioning due to either condensation or icing; and
(b) 2 sensitive pressure altimeters; and
(c) (i) a direct reading magnetic compass; or
(ii) a remote indicating compass and a standby direct reading magnetic compass; and
(d) an accurate timepiece indicating the time in hours, minutes and seconds; and
(e) a rate of climb and descent indicator (vertical speed indicator); and
(f) an outside air temperature indicator; and
(g) 2 attitude indicators (artificial horizons); and
(h) a heading indicator (directional gyroscope or equivalent approved by CASA); and
(i) a turn and slip indicator except that only a slip indicator is required when a third attitude indicator usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll is installed in accordance with paragraph (k) of this Appendix; and
(j) a means of indicating whether the power supply to those instruments requiring power is working satisfactorily; and
(k) in turbo-jet aeroplanes having a maximum take-off weight greater than 5 700 kg and in turbo-prop aeroplanes having a maximum take‑off weight greater than 18 000 kg a third attitude indicator https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C01077

[Tankengine]

737 is not a red herring - it is a turbo-jet over 5700kg. You shouldn't need to have flown a 737 to know that . . .

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C01077

OK, got me.
How many VFR charter flights are done in Australia in a 737 each year! ;)

Even special scenics are IFR planned for Qantas at least.

[Virtually There]

I know. But in the examiner's defence, at least the 737 was the elephant in the room and not, say, a Learjet 24 (6100kg).

The problem with CASA's culture of cunning questions is that sometimes, you are so convinced you are being duped, you overlook the obvious answer. And then the very next question you really do get duped!

[Papi_Chulo]

The frustrating thing is that sure you could assume that the 737 has 3 attitude indicators and fits the requirements set out in CAO 20.18 Apx ll for not requiring a turn and slip indicator but personally I haven't flown a 737 and I don't have a 737 cockpit poster stuck on my wall. The question is just way to open ended and assumes to much.

[Papi_Chulo]

Well looks like I've answered my own question.

Appendix II

Instruments required for:
(i) aeroplanes engaged in regular public transport operations; and
(ii) aeroplanes engaged in charter operations which have a maximum take-off weight greater than 5 700 kg

For Visual Flight Rules flight, the following instruments may be unserviceable:
(a) the attitude indicator required by paragraph 1 (k);
(b) 1 of the attitude indicators required by paragraph 1 (g) provided that the attitude indicator required by paragraph 1 (k) is serviceable or an attitude indicator has been provided to meet the requirements of paragraph 1 (i) and is serviceable;
(c) the turn and slip indicator or slip indicator and attitude indicator required by paragraph 1 (i).

[Tankengine]

The fact that he last time I flew a 737 I could not remember seeing a turn indicator threw me.
Our's have 3 attitude indicators instead. ;)

[Virtually There]

(i) is in reference to (k).

(k) stipulates a turbojet over 5700kg (conducting VFR charter ops under CAO 20.18 Appendix II) requires a third attitude indicator. In such instance, (i) stipulates only a slip indicator (not turn and slip) is required.

Does that make sense?

You don't personally need to know if a 737 in VFR charter has three AIs, because the regs (k) state it must have them. As long as you know a 737 is a turbojet and weighs more than 5700kg, you have all the information you need to interpret the regulations and provide an answer.