GIV Part 135 Capability Question

[BeechFan]

Could a GIV be operated into this airport legally on Part 135? If it could be done would you be limited by the number of pax?

Runway 4699ft
Elevation 433ft
Ave. temp 80oF

Many thanks.

[galaxy flyer]

Give us the airport ICAO code, please. It requires a lot more than the runway--obstacles, PCN, required gradients, max/min temps
GF


GF

[westhawk]

would you be limited by the number of pax?More limited in terms of fuel (range) than number of pax I'd say. After all, the weight of each pax is only represents a few minutes worth of cruise fuel flow.


I don't have access to GIV perf data, but taking off with fuel for maybe a few hundred miles should be doable under the stated conditions. However factored landing distances are going to limit the landing weight pretty significantly. It would help allot if the charter outfit was an approved EOD operator so they could use 80% factoring instead of 60% on a dry runway.

Hopefully someone will be along to run takeoff and landing numbers to validate.

Edited to add: Someone like GF!

[BeechFan]

Code is 5B2 - required trip would be 575nm.

Thanks!

[gbruton]

A GIV should do it easily.

[BeechFan]

Easily? Part 135 with the 60% rule? That's 2,819ft.

[mutt]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/679/32248877800_d93972fd6c_c.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/333/32505544491_016b2b1785_c.jpg

But obviously these figures are not runway specific.

Empty weight about 44,000 lbs
Reserve Fuel about 5,000 lbs
Trip Fuel about 5,000 lbs
Payload about 1,000 lbs

So you are looking at 54,000 and 49,000 lbs or there about.

[imriozer]

is it SP?
look at the pic

[BeechFan]

So it can't be done?

[imriozer]

So it can't be done?

Why not? Again, is it SP?
Do you need to get in with the pax or out?

[BeechFan]

Why not? Again, is it SP?
Do you need to get in with the pax or out?
With pax and with as many as possible in and out. Not necessarily an SP.

Many thanks

[gbruton]

With pax and with as many as possible in and out. Not necessarily an SP.

Many thanks
Not necessarily an SP.

What? Either it is a SP or it is not.

How about you tell us how many people the plane is configured for? It sounds like you want to shuttle in 25 people in a plane setup for 12 and you are trying to get the math to work.

I think the bigger question to answer is, What is your role in this situation where you are unable to answer these questions yourself?
Either you are the Pilot? Which you should know all this.
You are the Aircraft Manager? Which you should this or know how to attain it.
You are the PA and you are trying to make boss happy.

[BeechFan]

None of the above!!

It was merely a concept that I was trying to validate after a discussion the other day.

The question was could a GIV (of some sort) with up to 14 passengers operate in and out of the above airport legally on Part 135 rather than Part 91. A 575nm trip.

Apologies for any confusion!

[Matvey]

You've got a 7,000' strip at KSCH or an 8,500' runway at KALB each about 20 minutes away.

[westhawk]

According to the non-SP GIV takeoff planning chart posted above, 66,000# @30 deg C and 500' FE would require 4,690' of runway. (no wind)

If the BOW was 46,000#, then you could carry 20,000# of (fuel + payload.) If your GIV were configured for 17 pax and you allowed 200# for each (pax + bags), that would make your ZFW 49, 400#. (46,000 + 3,400) 66,000 - 49,400 = 16,600# fuel that could be carried. If you plan to land at destination with 5,000# fuel remaining, then you can fly that load as far as 11,000# of trip fuel will carry a GIV. Guessing somewhere near 1,000 nautical air-miles?

Of course an obstacle analysis has not been considered in the above exercise so the allowable MTOW for this runway could be less.

Now let's see how we do getting back in with the same pax load. At a ZFW of 49,400# + 5,000# fuel remaining at arrival, the landing weight would be 54,400#. Referring to the non SP GIV landing field length chart above, it would require a 60% factored runway of almost 5,500'. Unfactored is 3,300' and 80% factored is 4,400'.

If the operator is an eligible on-demand operator (135.4) and performs a destination airport analysis, they may use an 80% factor as per 135.385. (with certain limitations)

So bottom line? It looks like a GIV could be used by an EOD 135 operator to both depart and arrive at 5B2 airport when the weather and runway conditions allow. Particularly limiting is the landing distance. Land long or delay effective braking and it's game over, legal or not. Fortunately there are a couple of more suitable airports within limo distance should they be required.

Naturally, all the above is back of the napkin estimation and a proper pre-flight planning session using appropriate resources is in order for actual operations.

[BeechFan]

Thank you for your reply.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Another concern may be facilities (or lack thereof) at Saratoga County. It's kind of a nowhereseville kind of place, especially for a Gulfstream. I, too, would consider Albany or even Syracuse.

[BeechFan]

The place can be littered with GVs, G1V, F900s etc during the summer months when the races are on but i suppose they are all flying on Part 91 rules.

[westhawk]

but i suppose they are all flying on Part 91 rules.

Not necessarily.