Are you getting graped by Signature Luton?

[waverunner]

Big wake up call utilizing Signature Luton in the new year. Exorbitant price increases of over 200% for handling, parking, and many other ground ops items. Parking increase from GBP86 to GBP210 per hour for large aircraft. Absolutely insane. Check your invoices as Signature Luton is notorious for sticking services on your bill that you have not received. I guess someone needs to pay for their fancy new building and the GM's glass office. Any operators reacting to this and using other handling agents on the field or avoiding Luton altogether?

[7AC]

Whew, I thought I was the only one who thought it all a bit saucy.
We avoid it now as much as possible, going to Cranfield or Southend.

[Globally Challenged]

I used to operate a Signature based aircraft from Luton and due to the insane location of their new hangar (which would have been perfect for Gulfstream to move to - leaving the operational hangar on the signature ramp), it looked like there would be significant increases in de-icing charges during winter ops.

Aircraft cannot depart from the new hangar location (next to DHL / Harrods) so they have to be towed to the signature ramp. But if LVP is in force, aircraft would have to be towed the night before - and then stuck with having to de-ice where before you could remain in the hangar until you needed to refuel just before departure.

Just one big reason I'm glad I left that operation.

[josephfeatherweight]

Small cog - not a word I would have used, but I'm sick of all these people living in the Age of Outrage...
Bugger, just realised that by posting this, I was expressing my outrage at your outrage...

[munster]

i prefer the terms shafted, horsed up and reamed.

[fury308]

Signature is the last FBO we will look at anywhere in the world - crazy prices. (Not saying they are the most expensive at each location they have an FBO, but the few we've used have been so expensive that they are now the last place we will use - a last resort if you will)

[3pins]

I was parked on the ramp at Teteboro (Challenger 300) for almost one month, parking charges came to the total of $0

It is difficult to understand the fees in Europe? Not so surprised you felt like you where *****

[DirtyProp]

It is difficult to understand the fees in Europe?

The beauty of Socialism.

[G0ULI]

I would appreciate it, if the title of this thread could be reworded. It is grossly offensive.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Oh no it isn't!

[Amadis of Gaul]

Waverunner.

Here in the UK, 'rape' is a sexual assault. Perhaps you should consider going to the Police or use more appropriate language in describing what you are wishing to complain about?

He didn't say rape, he said grape. I think what he's actually trying to say is that he ordered some fine Merlot but received Welch's® instead. At least that's what I'm getting out of this.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Amadis of Gaul

The original title of this thread was not 'grape'. If you read other posts you may notice that others were not happy about it either.

I read them thoroughly, thank you. I half suspect and half hope that they'll get over it. As our Italian friends say, domani e un altro giorno.

[juliet]

Feel free to be so offended that you choose to leave the thread. Pretty simple.

[cambioso]

Hear hear Juliet!
As a "lapsed PPL" and obvious self opinionated "Civil Rights" campaigner (see the sum total of his other comments on Prune) Gouli should not even be on the BizJets Forum anyway.
This thread is very relevant for those of us that do use Signature worldwide (and Luton in particular). We don't want the waters muddied by self righteous twats that don't belong on here.
B****r off and be "grossly offended" elsewhere Matie...................

[Hawker 800]

At least we can all see where our fees are going...

Excessive staffing (yet mediocre at best service) not limited to the granny on the front desk (makes me most unwelcome) as you walk in, or the poor young lads in tops and tails at the foyer that must feel most uncomfortable.

Long corridor to another bog standard nothing special crew room. Computer area at the end of said crew room, making it noisy enough not to rest. Crew rest areas occupied when I was last in.

Fuel... How long a wait! Ridiculous, I've been delayed more than once due to late fuel arriving. Woe betide you if you are parked on 56 and the apron is busy.

Long waits for crew pickups after securing aircraft for an overnight, American style almost scripted banter from staff driving you to the hotel etc.

I will not use Signature, given a choice. Although, I have to say the others are only marginally better. Luton has a captive audience.

All in all, the new FBO looks like they've tried to recreate Rizon Jet Biggin (RIP) FBO, but not quite got there.

They've ruined Biggin now, too. What was a lovely FBO is now not a patch of it's former self.

[First.officer]

Offended by a single word! :eek:

The word 'rape' doesn't just have context as a sexual (abuse) term, it oddly enough has other meanings in common use;

The wanton destruction or spoiling of a place:


‘the rape of the countryside’

But I (thread) drift.....

[noneya]

SNOWFLAKES have infiltrated Aviation!!!:ugh:

I am offended that you are offended. But even more, I really don't care!!!

J

BTW... I agree with the above, Signature is always a very last resort.

[zubairways]

Has anyone on here tried Harrods another handling agent right next to Signature, not sure how the prices compare, I'd imagine them to be cheaper then Signature for sure.

[Sepp]

The word 'rape' doesn't just have context as a sexual (abuse) term, it oddly enough has other meanings in common use

I agree: indeed it does - and as one of those meanings is to strip something of resources, it would seem to be quite apt.

[NTEagle13]

We try to avoid EGGW as much as possible. We have been using Universal in Stansted (EGSS). The cost difference alone is something to look into...

[Spanish eyes]

Parking increase from GBP86 to GBP210 per hour for large aircraft. Absolutely insane.I believe Signature's lease of stands 16 & 17, which was their main ramp has ended unless they managed to get a short extension to the lease, as the airport wanted the stands back as additional stands for their terminal operation.

Signatures new apron around their new building and stand 58, which was created by demolishing a hangar next to the Gulfstream hangar does not compensate them for the loss of stands 16 & 17. I would suggest they are either managing demand by increasing prices or the fees for using stands 16 & 17 are now set by the airport and are going to them and not Signature. Signature are still using the stands until the airport needs them as they lack apron space of their own.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2hxm529.png


I used to operate a Signature based aircraft from Luton and due to the insane location of their new hangar (which would have been perfect for Gulfstream to move to - leaving the operational hangar on the signature ramp), it looked like there would be significant increases in de-icing charges during winter ops.Signature have inherited a large hangar that used to belong to Monarch on the main apron by stand 10 after they took over Landmark Aviation

[Trim Stab]

Well I bet most of the owners of those jets are "graping" the rest of us by avoiding paying taxes with offshore bank accounts, false residences in Monaco, dodgy accounts in Panama, employing workers on zero-hour contracts, stealing from pension funds etc - so who cares if they have to pay something back into other businesses?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

We operate a G650 which has to go there regularly, we also operate the owner's helicopter. Recently on three occasions we were refused handling for the helicopter due to "no space" and ended up with the jet at Signature and the heli at Harrods and Signature refusing to provide transport for the boss to Harrods.

Harrods sorted that, but Sig Luton did themselves no favours at all. What I don't understand is how Signature in so many other places can be so good and Luton so bad. Sig Le Bourget is somewhere I actually look forward to!

As for "graped" I believe the Op may be referencing the 1970's sketch of Captain Kremmen by the late Kenny Everett. Kremmens assistant Karla; "Captain I've just been graped!!"
Kremmen; "Surely you mean groped?"
Karla; "No, there was a whole bunch of them!"

SND

[Hawker 800]

Well I bet most of the owners of those jets are "graping" the rest of us by avoiding paying taxes with offshore bank accounts, false residences in Monaco, dodgy accounts in Panama, employing workers on zero-hour contracts, stealing from pension funds etc - so who cares if they have to pay something back into other businesses? That's up to the owner. Trim Stab.

What's up to me (most of the time) is where I chose to obtain handling from. A rip off is a rip off, and bad service is bad service. I have to justify most costs, so it matters to me.

What an aircraft owner/charterer does for work is irrelevant to me. As long as they pay their bills on time, I do not care. You are intimating that this handler is some kind of 'white knight', robbing the rich. Do you think they feed the poor?

However much I dislike zero hours contracts, broken pensions etc, It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

SND, that must have been frustrating to say the least. Perhaps one reason they are so bad at LTN, is that it is their busiest FBO in the European network. Some flagship! Like I said before, captive audience. I can foresee the other big player at LTN gaining business if they play their cards right.

[His dudeness]

Well I bet most of the owners of those jets are "graping" the rest of us by avoiding paying taxes with offshore bank accounts, false residences in Monaco, dodgy accounts in Panama, employing workers on zero-hour contracts, stealing from pension funds etc - so who cares if they have to pay something back into other businesses?

I´m pretty sure "my" owners don´t do that or at least within legal bounds.

I´m more interested in keeping my job and to this effect the operation needs to be as cheap/price worthy as possible. If I read SND post, with no transport provided to the boss, I got to say, this is an absolute NoNo. The bossman is paying up, he needs to get all (reasonable) services required pronto.

If a handling company does not understand this, it has no place in this business. IMHO. They (handlers) have been give a huge opportunity after 911, with loads of airports switching to mandatory handling and often the "services" have not developed as the prices have - they go up all the time, service levels not so.

BTW, Signature LBG is a dump, IMHO, was a loyal client of Transair for many years, but Signature got me totally annoyed after just 2 visits. Never ever again. Signature East Midlands - as an example - top guys, friendly good service although the premises could use an update.

[BIZZYBOY]

Alternative is to consider the 5 Excellent FBO's at Stansted
Universal , Harrods , Inflite , Fayair , Xjet

Distance to the city is not that much difference and if using a helicopter its logical.

Parking is cheaper and plentiful , fuel is cheaper. On site maintenance with Gulfstream/EBAS/Harrods/Inflite.

[OXF ATC]

....or you avoid the LTMA altogether by quick and easy access to OXF / EGTK, fast turnarounds, much lower costs and if you want heli-shuttles to Battersea, there's half cost landings for the jet, massively lower parking fees, half costs at the Heliport for interlining helicopter and in 22 or so minutes quite happy passengers too....

[Yeager]

G0ULI, what a little princess you are! Did you mother not like you or something. Jes, mate, you're one little sensitive thing. Perhaps you should go suck on a lollipop somewhere else.

[G0ULI]

Yeager

Unless you have worked with victims of sexual assaults, you can have no idea the depths of emotional and physical trauma that result. Third most serious offence on the statute books after treason and murder for a very good reason. Exhobitant hiking of service charges may also be a very emotive issue, but in no way comparable.

Not precious, just someone who has worked in this field. I am not prepared to sit back and ignore the trivialising of rape in reference to shoddy commercial practises. I suspect that the female members of this forum might have similar views.

[HundredPercentPlease]

G0ULI,

Get a grip. I have had an operation on a testicle and your name doesn't offend me.

[His dudeness]

ignore the trivialising of rape in reference to shoddy commercial practises.

OMG. The trivializing of rape ? Are you serious ?

[megan]

I am not prepared to sit back and ignore the trivialising of rape in reference to shoddy commercial practisesG0ULI, the word has more than one meaning (highlighted), and its use here is of that. Lets turn our attention to the meaning of the word "gay". ;)

rape 1 (rāp)
n.
1.
a. The crime of using force or the threat of force to compel a person to submit to sexual intercourse.
b. The crime of using force or threat of force to compel a person to submit to some other sexual penetration.
c. Other unlawful sexual intercourse or penetration, as with an unconscious person or person below the age of or incapable of consent.
d. An instance of any of these crimes.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction: the rape of Europa by Zeus.
3. The act of pillaging or plundering: the rape of the city by the invaders.
4. Abusive or improper treatment; spoiling or abuse: the rape of the land by polluters.
tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
1. To use force or threat of force to compel (another person) to submit to sexual intercourse or other sexual penetration.
2. To seize and carry off by force.
3. To plunder or pillage.
4. To treat improperly; abuse or spoil.

[G0ULI]

I had no intention of hijacking (another contentious word) the topic. The thread title was altered to something a little less horrible. Thank you for that.

My user name does look a little unfortunate in some fonts, the second character is a zero. It is an officially licensed randomly assigned international designation. Sometimes life deals you lemons.

Back to the main topic, I as a customer find Luton a bit disappointing as a destination to travel from and to. They really need to keep their charges as low as possible to attract trade and make up for the inconvenience of not being closer to London. Maybe it's just the population of Milton Keynes has grown enough to justify hiking the prices. A jubilee special deal perhaps.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Not precious, just someone who has worked in this field. I am not prepared to sit back and ignore the trivialising of rape in reference to shoddy commercial practises. I suspect that the female members of this forum might have similar views.

So, you're offended on behalf of the forum's female members? I can't help but think that they can speak for themselves...

[LGW Vulture]

And of course - men never, ever get raped do they? :ugh:

[Deep and fast]

I personally don't care about the prices much, but the service! Thats awful. One of my colleagues summed it up perfectly. Wonderful new building, same piss poor service.

Harrods is in another league and Stansted has always been an easier option.

Now if only we could double pilot salaries? No the boss says we're loosing money.......again. Yeah whatever.:ugh:

[mad2fly]

The beauty of Socialism.

I'm no great fan of the ridiculous fees charged in Europe. But you are saying that the reason for a large corporation on a privately operated airport charging high fees is because of Socialism?

[Hawker 800]

personally don't care about the prices much, but the service! Thats awful. One of my colleagues summed it up perfectly. Wonderful new building, same piss poor service.


That sums it up nicely indeed.

There is no excuse for the service (or rather, lack of it)

I also agree that SIG LBG is pretty bad. I prefer Jetex personally.

I fly a mix of private owner and charter flights on a few airframes. The private owner wont go near SIG LTN now. When I get a charter to LTN, I'm going to 'the other side' from now on.

[His dudeness]

I prefer Jetex personally.

Me too. Never looked back.

[SJT_OPS]

Alternative is to consider the 5 Excellent FBO's at Stansted
Universal , Harrods , Inflite , Fayair , Xjet

Distance to the city is not that much difference and if using a helicopter its logical.

Parking is cheaper and plentiful , fuel is cheaper. On site maintenance with Gulfstream/EBAS/Harrods/Inflite.
XJet and good in the same sentence?
I must've missed something down the line...