BA Buy on Board

[pax britanica]

Any one on Prune experience the new BA Buy on Board (BoB) experience yet-quite a lot of negativity on some other websites. The part of it that worried me most was that even water has to be paid for unless its 'Tap' water. I have always been v wary of drinking tap water on a plane knowing what can go on inside relatively small water tanks when the tap is fed from there other than free flowing mains

[HZ123]

FWIW the water bowsers should have sterilised mains water, tablets are added by the operative, if they can be asked. I have also seen the water tanks after removal and they have sludge at the bottom. I agree, on board 'Tap' water would not be my first choice!

[ExXB]

Two questions.

1. How much for a beer? An orange LCC charges £4 for a 330ml (£6.88 a pint equivalent).
2. Do they charge the same on intra-EU as on ex-EU where goods are tax and duty exempt?

[HeartyMeatballs]

Drinks menu | British Airways (http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/food-and-drink/short-haul-economy-drinks-menu?clickpage=resp-information--food-and-drink--short-haul-economy-dining&kmtag=c&ban=||DP|6x2|CTA1|||||||||L2|||||||)

1) £4 for a 330ml beer. Same as easyJet.
2) Only one price is listed as far as I can see.

Which airlines do charge a different price for intra or ex EU flights out of interest?

The crews all drink the same tap water. When you consider that the can't eat the same meals but can all drink from the same water it suggests to me that the risk of anything unpleasant making you get sick is fairly small.

[davidjpowell]

I'm curious about how many crew members drink the tap water.... I suspect not many.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Well, every crew member who has a tea or coffee will and any passenger who has a hot drink will too. Water services during ground delays too. If there was any risk (drinking it hot or cold) then I very much doubt it would be offered to anyone given today's litigious society and if there was a health and safety risk, crew would be forbidden from consuming it.

[Denti]

There might be a reason why some carriers cater extra bottled water for their crews...

[HeartyMeatballs]

My airline does carry bottled water for crew. We get a set amount of water bottles with any extra being either passenger water from the bar or potable water. Not all do however. We still get teas and coffees made with potable water. Airlines who use coffee brewers will also use potable water.

I've been drinking it for the best part of a decade and I'm still here.

[oldpax]

"Air Asia to KL from BKK ,I had a coffee which was not particulary hot and about 30 mins later I had to dash for the loo,lucky I was in the back row!This continued well after I was on the ground .Conclusion was it was the water as I had only had my normal breakfast (and nothing else)before take off.

[Twinstar2007]

On the BA flight yesterday LHR-MAN, the crew made an announcement that they are "excited" about the new buy on board service, but due to being unable to take forms of payment they will not be providing any of services on board, but you can have a glass of tap water if you wanted to, they further say "we have passed this onto to our management, who sends their sincere apologies."

In reality BA have become such a shabby airline, even their own staff looked so embarrassed, you cannot differentiate BA from a low cost, the ticket buy the way cost over £250, not worth it and I wish there was flights with different airlines to LHR from the north.

[easyflyer83]

I'm sure the crew won't be quite so embarrassed when their commission slips get delivered.

[750XL]

I was under the impression that the majority of airlines provide bottled water for their crews?

I personally wouldn't drink the potable water unless I had to, I regularly see the water quality test reports and you'd be surprised the amount of 'fails' seen on these reports. Often from UK airports :cool:

[HeartyMeatballs]

They do indeed. However there's no way to heat the bottled water in many cabin setups. Therefore when it comes to hot drinks, we the crew are all drinking potable water.

I'd thought that if they were going cashless, they'd at least have the manual backups for card payments. It's basically carbon paper imprints of the cards. It's old school, but it works. I don't think it's acceptable for a long flight to say 'our management send their apologies, and we have cups of free tap water available'.

I do find it amusing. Once upon a time BA crew and pax would look down on the likes of easyJet and their passengers. Fast forward to 2017, and they're easyJet Heathrow. Nothing more.

[750XL]

Potable water for tea/coffee is boiled/filtered though?

[HeartyMeatballs]

And hot meals are nuked to death. We still can't eat the same meal. Some of the drinks we get served are barely warm, nevertheless mind hot. If there was any risk in potable water then I'm sure they would restrict crews in consuming it. They don't usually restrict passengers from consuming it neither. Airlines are very cautious as to where they pick up water in order to minimise risk. Many a time during ground delays our crews have distributed cups of tap water to an entire cabin. I've never heard of anyone getting sick from it.

[750XL]

I understand that potable water cannot be uplifted from certain locations for obvious reasons, but I've seen a lot of worrying reports regarding water bowsers and the quality of their tanks in the UK.

I stand to be corrected here, but I believe Ryanair potable water isn't for consumption?

[DaveReidUK]

I stand to be corrected here, but I believe Ryanair potable water isn't for consumption?

Ryanair have redefined the meaning of many previously understood terms, so why should "potable" be immune ? :O

Previous thread of relevance:

http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/271200-free-drinking-water-airline-passengers-legal-requirement-not.html

[pax britanica]

I do realise that most airlines would take some care over potable water and of course if it isnt actually boiled it should be close to 100 C for tea or coffee. Most UK tap water isn tvery nice to taste anyway though and sticking in a tank ona plabne isnt going to make it taste nicer.

I understand why BA are moving to BoB but extending it to bottled water is a step too far, It makes them look cheap and nasty and is completely at odds with their 'premium image' they like to portray

[ExXB]

I do realise that most airlines would take some care over potable water and of course if it isnt actually boiled it should be close to 100 C for tea or coffee.

At 8,000 feet the boiling temperature of water is 91.6C. And it won't stay that hot for long.

[no sponsor]

I personally would never drink potable water, unless it's a cup of tea. We get provided with bottled water, however after seeing pictures of the inside of aircraft water tanks I keep the tea down to a minimum. Quite a lot of countries including quite a lot of European countries, we are prohibited, in BA, to upload potable water.

The BoB sounds like its going quite well, with rumours from crews that it's being sold out. It's a shame it has happened, but the public want cheap flights and they are price sensitive. It's all about price on short haul. Expedia and other travel sites often list flights on the headline price, and as a result BA don't get listed anywhere near the top, because they used to have everything included. A £7 price difference meant Jo Public went for LCC. The reality is that several free G&Ts later, they'd forgotten that they've saved a considerable amount of money on their way to Malaga.

BA reduced the offering to compete to the extent is was ridiculous and hardly anyone ate it anyway. If the public select the airline on price, you might as well compete on price.

[PAXboy]

Indeed no sponsor. Across 25 years people around the globe have proved that they will change carrier for a Tenner. Perhaps they do also consider the distance from the airport, parking charges there etcetera, we do not know. But the global short haul market is changed beyond recognition and the long haul is not looking so good either.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Going back to one of the original questions, can anyone tell us of an airline who charge different prices for the BOB products depending on wether or not the flight is intra or extra EU?

[SeenItAll]

Two observations.

There is no way that BA, on its own volition, would provide bottled water to the crew based on its concern that the tank water might be bad. In the event that a PAX gets sick and sues BA, imagine the liability (not to say the PR disaster) that would attach to this likely discovered BA concern.
The crew contracts that I have seen for several U.S. airlines require that the airline provide the crew with bottled water as a contractual condition, not due to any concern on the part of the airline as to crew health. As a result, there is no admission by the airline that the tank water represents any health concern.

Therefore, while possibly disgusting, the tank water is likely quite safe.

[pax britanica]

But can BA guarantee all the water is uploaded where it is safe to do so-I am not sure London has the cleanest water either. But how do the crew know how much water has been used and how much is left for the return trip.

I agree giving the crew bottled water but not pax might be problematic but then the flight deck get clean air and the pax get mostly recirculated /oil fume contaminated air. So overall i think bottled water is a good idea and no reason why its not limited to one per pax .

As to price sensitivity just flying from LHR not GW or STN makes a big difference so why not move half the flights and the price conscious destinations to LGW and save real money that way

[HeartyMeatballs]

The crew can check water quantities of water on the A320s. It could be topped up downroute subject to it being authorised if ever there is a need.

Many an airline have been flying for years without providing complimentary bottled water. I see no reason why BA would have a problem. If anyone is too precious to drink tap water, then bring your own or bring your credit card.

Gatwick is already more leisure centric than Heathrow. BA are simply responding to the market. I'm sure they have done their research and shock horror, they've realised people don't select flights based on a 'free' G&T and a packet of birdseed.

Out of interest do people who live in London all just drink bottles of Evian?

I see nobody has named an airline who charge different onboard prices based on routes so one can assume that no airline charges reduced prices on exEU flights.

[ExXB]

HM - Just because they don't have a dual price list (domestic/EU and international), doesn't mean they shouldn't.

Years ago when I started flying many airlines had a domestic price and an international price for on board alcohol sales. So it has been done, and can very easily can be done.

Not only are they, now including BA, stealing the VAT and duty from their non-EU passengers they are stealing commission from their cabin crew. That is, unless they pay different commission amounts on ex-EU flights. Commission on these flights should be based on gross price, rather than net price. While only a few pennies on a pound it does add up.

[HeartyMeatballs]

That may be so but no airline does this. I think it's important to point out this fact wether it be BA or easyJet or anybody else for that matter.

Going back to the BA BoB it's disappointing that despite all other airlines in the group (except OpenSkies) having a BoB service for many years, that BA's implementation hasn't quite worked out. They should be experts really. There's no excuse for it.

[Reverserbucket]

If the intention was for BA to increase revenue through on-board sales, it may take them a while. I've yet to see a two crew cart make it to more than about a third of the Eurotraveller cabins on the 320's I've flown on this month. The transaction process seems to be extraordinarily cumbersome and on my last trip they didn't seem to have much selection of sandwiches (just beef in fact).

And yes, a complimentary G&T and packet of nuts or lemon biscuits was usually welcome; I haven't noticed the base ticket price being any less this month than it was last month.

[Flightrider]

I did notice base ticket prices having reduced on one domestic sector I use regularly - it's down from £41 to £37 over the next few weeks. Just back from my third BA sector since the launch of BOB - first two were absolutely fine, this evening's effort was dreadful.

The crew (Eurofleet, before anyone asks) were going out of their way to talk down the whole thing. One of their payment machines wasn't working so they had one for the entire cabin - we got a gushing PA after take-off about how it was early days, they were still finding their feet and would try to serve everyone if they could, but if you didn't like it, you really should take to BA.com and let British Airways know what you think. Talk about trying to incite complaints.

I then overheard one crew member - coming back to put a transaction through the machine for a passenger further up the cabin which totted up to £26.40 - saying "it's too much, it's too much - they can't spend like this" to his colleague. My memory went back to that episode of "Are You Being Served" where the staff at Grace Brothers were trying to deliberately put anyone off buying. Disgraceful.

[Reverserbucket]

Returning to LHR on a 319 yesterday. Passenger asked in the galley after seatbelts off for a glass of water and was given a thorough explanation about the BoB service and how water in a bottle cost £1.80 or 225 Avios (I think he may have been feeling a bit unwell looking at him). Cart pushed to the curtain then heard that they had apparently run out of food stock within about 10 mins although no official mention of this. I was near the back and certainly no one near me was offered any refreshment. Crew were getting off and were met by what appeared to be a 22 year old manager in a hi-vis who was vocally debriefed walking from the aircraft at T5B to the transit platform (including carrying on the discussion in the elevator with me, a passenger). Apparently the transaction devices are not working as planned - one of the crew explained to the 'manager' how 'they all knew how to operate an i-pad so why was this so different' and how he felt it was 'unacceptable to run out of food so quickly'. Bit unprofessional to voice your concerns in front of your customers I think but then when seated near the real galley, you sometimes hear the choicest of conversations when they're strapped into the jumpseats.

I miss the tea/coffee biscuits etc but I'm not going to pay £2.30 for a hot drink, £4.00 for a Heineken or a minimum of £1 for a packet of crisps when they were complimentary last month and the ticket price has not changed (on the routes I use).

[HeartyMeatballs]

It's exceptionally bad if they're not giving out glasses of water. easyJet do.

There's no excuse for running out of products. They have a full rear galley and additional galley stowage at the front where they can carry ambient products. I can forgive them for running out of fresh options but not ambient given the vast amounts of storage space they have in comparison to easyJet.

It's also strange how they complain about the sales system and how it's so slow. If it's so slow then how do they manage to run out of food so quickly? easyJet have half the storage space, more passengers, short turns and often very short flights on four sector days. They don't even have a full size oven yet easyJet crews manage it somehow. Why can't BA?

It sounds like militant crew who think BoB is below them who are doing everything they can to ensure that it doesn't work.

[V_2]

HearthyMeatballs. Everyone is trying their best, but the whole set up needs more thought.
Not enough food is being loaded. 3 ploughman sandwhiches for a 321 going to Cyrpus. Really now? Yet 10 bacon sandwiches on an AMS where they have no time to cook them anyway. Makes complete sense.
Easyjet have more passengers but they take cash which actually is pretty quick to transact. BA have these ipads that quite simply do not work as quickly as planned. Took a friend of mine 20 minutes to pay on a 50 minute flight. So on the short flights not everyone gets served, on the long flights they run out anyway. Sure some staff may want it to fail, but they are not going to risk their jobs over it, get real.
On the subject of water, it is deemed safe to drink, and at many overseas airports the water is not uplifted as it doesn't meet accepted standards. This can lead to aircraft running out of water on certain routes. So the last thing you want to start doing is handing it out to passengers to drink. Furthermore, on certain aircraft it is not possible to despense cold water from the galley, only hot water for making drinks.

[HeartyMeatballs]

You don't offer tap water over the PA but if someone makes the effort of coming to the galley and asking you do not start bleating on about how you have to pay and how hard life's is. You say 'certain sir, would you like ice' and 'is there anything else I can get for you'.

I can sympathise with regards to the fresh options. It seems nobody is immune to 30 hots for a domestic run and 3 fresh options for a medium haul holiday flight!

I think once BA has its data it will work things our much better in future but there will always be anomolies. Personally I think it would be better to just get rid and only serve ambient products such as snack packs. Less wastage and you'll never sell out as you can store an awful lot of them and don't have to worry about a short shelf life.

[Heathrow Harry]

Just do away with it all togther on short haul- tell them to buy sandwhiches before boarding

Junk the ghastly carts and save on weight & fuel

[HamishMcBush]

I'm very disappointed with BA. Back in the late 90's I used to fly regularly from LHR to EDI and ABZ (and back), and also from about 2006 to 2012 I flew twice a year LHR to ABZ (and back). On the morning flights you got a "proper" hot breakfast with bacon, egg, sausage, tomato etc etc.

Last November I had to fly to Germany and back on business, and my employer booked with BA. This was pre- B-o-B from M&S.
On the early morning flight out, no breakfast as such, just one small mis-shapen croissant that had been pre-injected with some sort of margarine substitute, and on the return flight, evening-meal time but the only food served was a packed of crisps, so a very late microwave curry dinner for me when I got home. Premium price, premium service but lousy food. What is the world coming to? The cabin crew looked very embarrased when I queried the lack of proper food.

[flyingfemme]

It's not just grim in the back. Took the early flight to Miami from Heathrow on New Year's Eve. Checkin was chaotic and it took an intervention by a bunch of pax with a passing BA rep to actually getthe queue moving after 45 minutes.
We were served breakfast - but most of the options were "unavailable" by the time I was served. Lunch was skipped and afternoon tea came out - dry finger sandwiches and not much else. The snacking options didn't survive long; halfway into the flight there were no chocolate, crisps, nuts or fruit selections. Just a bag of sugar coated popcorn.
If I'd paid a proper fare, I would have been pretty tee'd off, but for a reward flight I only expect the flat bed.........except BA's offering isn't actually flat. How anyone pays several grand for the service is beyond me.
No wonder Virgin are always jam packed!

[TURIN]

It sounds like militant crew who think BoB is below them who are doing everything they can to ensure that it doesn't work.

Very very wrong conclusion.

The internal farcebook on BA's in house intranet system is full of complaints by crew TO management.
This is definitely not crew being un-cooperative. Its just very poor planning.

[Heathrow Harry]

BA are (again) trying to be all things to all people and failing - their shorthaul offerings resembles a proto LCA whereas they brand themsleves as ful-service long haul airline.

Passengers get confused and it badly affects the brand

I have a lot of sympathy for the cabin crews - they're having to deal with the fall-out from management decisions that haven't been completely thought through

[ExXB]

... a large percentage of their business is connecting traffic via Heathrow. How do the explain food and drinks on the longhaul, but BoB for the connecting flight? It's going to put them further down the list.

[Heathrow Harry]

yeah - its like connecting between QANTAS & JetStar - you're never quite sure how it works but it works badly so you just go somewhere else

[pax britanica]

Why not use reverse processing and have a collection bucket on each short haul flight for the CEOs bonus-good trip people chuck in a pound or a Euro if its a bad trip nothing. Cancel his bonus provisions of course and just give pax the 'option' (that word again) of whtehr to contribute or not.

Seems fair doesnt it?

[edi_local]

... a large percentage of their business is connecting traffic via Heathrow. How do the explain food and drinks on the longhaul, but BoB for the connecting flight? It's going to put them further down the list.

The same way any other carrier that has a similar model explains it?

SK, EI, IB, LH-EW/4U, SN, OS.

I'm sure I'm missing some, but plenty of major carriers offer BoB on short haul, but offer a full service on long haul.

[TCU]

2hrs on an airbus is hardly beyond the call of human endurance. Just fill up before of after....how difficult can that be?

Anyway most of my BA short-haul these days is with BA franchise Comair, down here in SA. BA flight number, BA paint scheme. For all intents, a BA short haul flight.

If I am on the morning JNB-CPT flight I get a cracking hot breakfast and endless cups of hot tea (better than that served on the BA A380 which I have just left). If on the evening CPT-JNB an nice hot dinner and refreshment (better than on the BA A380 I am about to board). Good old Comair...with a service culture a bit like the old days!

[PAXboy]

Agreed about Comair, have got four sectors with them next month. Whether a full meal or sarnies from Woolworths (not the UK one!) then it's always good.

[vctenderness]

The oft used point about eating before flight and therefore no need for on board food is a spurious one.

It always assumes that the customer has had plenty of time to eat before boarding or has time to que up and buy food for on board consumption.

This is not always the case. People may have got up at some ungodly hour, driven to the airport in heavy traffic, stuck in long lines at check in and security and then find the flight is boarding so no time to even grab a coffee.

Others may have arrived on a longhaul flight and assume that they will get the same level of service on their short haul leg.

Also the fact that BA in its infinite wisdom has decided no cash means service is further limited on board and if you are seated in the wrong place you may never be served.

A bad move in my humble opinion.

[Reverserbucket]

Quite right vctenderness, I often fly late afternoon from LHR but not really late enough to eat an evening meal, yet arrive (usually at an EU destination) an hour and a half later plus one or two hours time difference and often just manage to make it to the hotel restaurant/bar before the kitchen closes (and later than I would prefer to eat if I'm honest). Even a light snack such as a packet of crisps or nuts will bridge the gap and I used to enjoy them with a drink as well as the service breaking up the flight a little.

The CC did a great job and tried hard (although I felt the explanation to the chap who wanted some water was a bit strict but they may not have had the option to dispense water?). There does seem to be something wrong with the system at the moment and it seems a bit more fundamental than just teething trouble. As said, the others seem to manage it.

[A Low End Private Pi]

When I did temping work for offices, i always knew when it was a good company if they provided free hot chocolate in the office :)
I do the same with airlines, if there's two airlines flying the same route for the same price, one offers free food and one doesn't. I'm going to the one with free food.
Thai Smile, the low cost airline in Thailand does a lovely hot snack with bottle of water and a bag.
Anyway i am happy to go without food too as i fly Ryanair sometimes. In the past I was happy to spend £20 more to fly BA and get that free food even though i'd still have spent an extra £17 (roughly) mainly for the convenience of the seats etc. But Ryanair isn't so bad or as difficult as i first thought that it might be in terms of getting boarding card or paying for the flight. Aer Lingus do as cheap as Ryanair sometimes or maybe £10 more, i was then also happy trying that airline out too without free food.
I still prefer the food part as standard though.

[Another James]

Does anyone know if the above refreshments (drinks,food) are actually supplied by m&S or they prepared by one of the on airport airline catering contractors and labelled as M&S products.

[S.o.S.]

Welcome to the 'cabin' Another James. I've merged your question to a thread that is already discussing BA BoB.

[dazdaz1]

Reversebucket........"(although I felt the explanation to the chap who wanted some water was a bit strict but they may not have had the option to dispense water?)"

Not a lot of passengers know this (one could take advantage or pulling a fast one as they say) Under a EU directive while flying in EU states the carrier is required to supply free water if the passenger needs to take oral prescribed tablets or to dilute a liquid medication. Done it on a number of occasions, scotch and water :E It's surprising the lack of knowledge the cc have on this directive.

[HeartyMeatballs]

I cannot believe an airline would say no to free water. easyJet do. In fact last time I commuted the FA down the back said 'a bottle or would you like a glass of tap water'.

Perhaps you could name and shame the airlines who refuse or who kick up a fuss.

[bricquebec]

Quote: Agreed about Comair, have got four sectors with them next month. Whether a full meal or sarnies from Woolworths (not the UK one!) then it's always good. End quote.

Those from UK Woolworths may be a bit stale by now . . .

[SLF3]

Ryanair: we are cheap, don't like you and are very basic.
Easyjet: we are not quite as cheap, don't dislike you and are basic
BA: we are very expensive, disinterested and basic

As branding goes that is about as bad as it gets. I used to go BA whenever I could: now I actively look for alternates. I don't think I am alone.

If BA didn't have a vice like grip on Heathrow they would be toast.

[Aksai Oiler]

I made sandwiches for M&S when I was at Uni, I have not eaten one since.

I flew at the end of last month LGW-AGP-LGW, and saw the first few days of BOB. I was in Club, and what was served (in Club) looked like something which my Cocker Spaniel had deposited. Catering right now on BA is awful, I would stick to bringing my own ham and mustard sarnies in a box, to either BOB or Club catering.

I have to agree with some of the others, water should be free, unfortunately Alex Cruz is from Vueling, another IAG carrier famed for its product. Until we all boycott BA and yield/bums on seats drop, they will just continue to cut as they see fit

[pax britanica]

How to trash your brand: get a know it all, all about me cost cutting manager from a low rent outfit and put him in charge of your premium brand. Yeah, that makes alot of sense lets do that

[3wheels]

Until we all boycott BA and yield/bums on seats drop, they will just continue to cut as they see fit

BA have been on my NO FLY LIST since they charged me £140 to reserve a seat in long haul Business Class. And it's staying that way.

[Heathrow Harry]

They (and most of the other European legacy "national Carriers") are way past their sell-by date and offer very very average service

[ExXB]

BA have been on my NO FLY LIST since they charged me £140 to reserve a seat in long haul Business Class. And it's staying that way.

They have been on my no fly list since failing to repond to my written complaints despite nimerous attempts. I was Gold at the time. After burning my miles I haven't flow with them and I won't again.

[HeartyMeatballs]

I hear that the machines are now much more reliable. I have heard of silly loading however such as two sandwiches loaded for a CPH flight. I think it will take a while for them to get reliable sales data and be able to load the correct number of fresh options. If it like most airlines BA will pay for sandwiches loaded and not necessarily sold. It's not feasible to load 300 sandwiches on the off chance that you'll sell them all but at the same time 2 for a business flight isn't good but I'd be telling porkies if I said it never happened in my outfit.

[Ancient Observer]

Which idiot would tell UK customers on their "National" Brand to pay for tea?

This idiot is cruzifying the brand.

[HeartyMeatballs]

The Irish, Spanish and Belgians all do. It hasn't put them off their national brands. I see no evidence of anyone switching from BA in response to this. Considering reduced costs and the increased revenue potential, I'd say this was a good decision from BA.

BA catering was slowly reduced and rather poor toward the end. I'd say serving people crap does more damage than serving nothing. Although I do miss those little bacon muffins on the domestic runs they've served over the last few months, it hasn't stopped me flying them.

[PIK3141]

Unfortunately on GLA to LHR you cannot switch to another brand. BA monopoly, with near term prices through the roof. Next Wednesday at random, early flight down £174, mid evening back £202. Total day trip £376, and you're telling me you don't even get a 'free' cup of tea or coffee. That monopoly in the opposite direction shows all flights sold out in the morning. How times have changed from the BMA days of both airlines doing proper breakfasts and proper evening dinners with wine. Bad service at high prices and clearly hitting the business person if the monopoly airlines flights are sold out ! And this service includes the gate never available on arrival at T5 or the airbridge not able to connect or that day's other excuse.

[HeartyMeatballs]

It shows that LHR is a strong selling point for BA. Much more than a free drink and nibbles. On the same day Ryanair offer a return to STN for £60, easyJet to LGW for £100ish. People seem to be prepared to pay a massive premium for LHR. It would be cheaper to fly to another airport even with a longer taxi ride, but LHR is a massive pull. A freebie would be nice but the fact is they don't need to.

[Another James]

Buy on board,as a regular club passenger on the early flights out of lgw to proper euroland
places got bored up with the club food (still dont know how they can get an English breakfast wrong) so i asked the cc if i can purchase a sarnie any flavour "yes" was the answer great i say and decline the club grub.
Unfortunately no sarnie arrived,no excuse offered and ended up with no food at all.
Well thank you Ba...to fly,to serve,to forget,to upsell extras,to cram in more seats in small aircraft.
Travelling in 3 days and will try out bob if allowed and not forgotten about.

[TCU]

PIK, analyse your own post "both airlines doing proper breakfasts and proper evening dinners with wine".

Where are BMA/BM/BMI today? They gave you too many hot dinners and too much red wine, which they clearly could not afford.

BA has survived the Laker price fixing scandal, the Virgin price fixing scandal, the Cargo price fixing scandal, World Tails, Concorde grounding, the T5 opening cock up, penny pinching First and Club service, spying on its own staff and multiple strikes

They are not going to suffer much due to the lack of egg and cress sandwiches on short haul flights

[Heathrow Harry]

I suspect they'll suffer steady erosion tho' - once you sound like an LCA, offer the services of an LCA and treat passengers like an LCA they expect LCA prices..

............which BA and Iberia can't provide across their network

I always find that the younger you are the less likley you are to default to BA these days

[wiggy]

BA possibly can't offer it across the entire network but they did compete fairly well for economy prices wise on some routes I know of. With savvy booking it was often cheaper that the likes of Easyjet on some routes I know of but part of BA's problem was getting some to accept that fact. Many peoples browsers (especially the occasional shorthaul leisure travellers) seem to hard wired to only look at FR and Easy..and TBH I think that was a failure in BA's marketing, since all we ever seem to hear of is the drip drip of reduced Cabin Baggage allowances, BOB etc.

OTOH there are serious concerns in some places about the Premium Cabin(s). Some don't think the present management are really interesting in investing the money needed to retain market share.

The Vueling (SH) Norwegian (LH) seems to be the model being chased.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Planes are a commodity to most. They want to get there as cheap as they can. BA are easyJet with a different paint job, but the experience is just that little bit better plus LHR is a huge pull. I think they'll go all out and instead of offering a discount for bags, they be open and honest and start charging extra for bags and they'll remove free seat assignment. Free seat assignment and food obviously wasn't that great a pull for them and they were unable to command any price premium. Therefore they're LCC on short haul now. This, coupled with the densification of the cabin should hopefully allow them to generate some profit on short haul.

I still think every flight should have a club section. Vueling offer it on one hour hops in Spain, BA should do the same. It's a sorry state of affairs when a former tin pot LCC from Spain does it better than your national carrier.

[ExXB]

wiggy, senior management is likely of the view that frequent flyers have too much invested in them to go elsewhere. They are likely right, to a point.

Working in central London for a big company/bank and prefering non-stop flights, where else are they going to go?

[Another James]

Just had feed back (not a pun) re Ba BoB from some of my colleagues and the comments have been very favourable.
Good points inc,a very good choice of food.(i like the idea of choice) The warm offerings were indeed warm and very tasty the cold offerings again tasty and fresh.Hot and cold drinks very adequate.Cant comment on the alcoholic drinks as they are not allow them during work time.
Not so good points,passengers not having the correct payment cards and having to search for their cards but not Ba's fault.
Maybe roll out (yes i know) the same food/drink offerings to Club,as a club traveller i would enjoy the choice but keep it foc.

[crewmeal]

I guess it was obvious that prices onboard would be more expensive.

BA goes to war in-flight sarnies, that cost 46% MORE | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4257712/BA-goes-war-flight-sarnies-cost-46-MORE.html)

[PAXboy]

A bacon roll costs £4.75 on BA flights but just £3.25 in the supermarketWell, apart from profit, someone has to get a small quantity to the aircraft on time. They are not delivering crates loads to one store. The sarnies have to be sold and someone clear away the packaging. The Daily Mail cannot resist criticising everything. If BA had continued to offer poor quality food and lose market share - they would have criticised how bad they were for shareholders!

The Daily Mail always wants to promote choice and low prices, which is exactly what the pax of the world have decided they want. BA is now doing that and you can choose not to buy if you want. EXACTLY what the Daily Fail wants.

[vctenderness]

The problem is BA has always sold itself as a 'full service airline' whereas EasyJet and Ryanair have always sold theirselves as Low cost airlines.

Gradually BA has shed the elements that made it full service and that is why it is going to get more criticism.

At the same time Easy are improving their overall offering whilst still charging for food. Where will the seesaw balance?

[PAXboy]

Exactly vctenderness, that is is how business' develop and then fade! BA is on the slow, downward trajectory and EZY is on the up. They may cross over - certainly in short haul. If that happens, then BA may not be sustainable, which is why IAG is trying to build up enough to feed each other. These groups and alliances are the next incarnation of long haul (as I have said before so I'll stop.)

The Daily M is subject to the same thing and, one day, it's star will fade too.

[ExXB]

Why are their prices the same on their flights to Switzerland as on their flights to EU airports? (Yes, this is a rhetorical question- those bar-stewards are selling vat and duty exempt products for the taxes-included prices).

Did I say bar-stewards? I should have said thieves.

And yes they are not the first, but that doesn't make them innocent. Bar-stewards.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Given that you have as yet not provided any evidence of any airline charging different prices to and from Switzerland, I'd say that there's a lot of thieves out there.

[Max Angle]

A bacon roll costs £4.75 on BA flights but just £3.25 in the supermarket That may well be true for an off airport supermarket, the prices are apparently the same as the M&S outlets at the airport which like all the other food providers are higher than the high street.

[lotus1]

Just come back last night on easyjet say BA charge over prices 2.50 for a bottle of water 1.00 pound for a kitkat sainsburys 4 kitkats a pound 70 pence a bottle of water I say bring you own or pay after security

[Reverserbucket]

I notice T5 airside retailers now offering a selection of 'Take Onboard' light meals. Gordon Ramsay and F&M's packaging fairly decent looking food in hamper style cool bags from 14GBP. Bit more (but not much more than BoB) but three courses and a drink, as well as Caviar House, Itsu and Wagamama marketing similar. Handed a leaflet by a young lady who informed me that BA had recently stopped serving food on long-haul services :(. Heathrow Airport branding on the leaflet so good to see the airport busy promoting their most important customers.

[Skipness One Echo]

G&T or a cup of coffee on a short flight at the end of a business day was the reason to fly BA. Overpriced M&S is no reason to fly anyone.

Given the second meal on long haul Y is now a Kit Kat, it's clear BoB is coming there as well, the service on Vs is a country mile better down the back.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Second meal is not a Kit Kat. It's one QUATER of a Kit Kat!! I thought it some kind of appetiser before the landing snack was delivered. I was one disappointed Meatball. But they were the cheapest flight I could find by a good £40, so I quickly got over it.

[vctenderness]

American passengers always commented on the BA afternoon tea which featured scones, clotted cream and Tiptree conserve.

Some used to say they looked forward to that as part of their holiday in the U.K.

I wonder if they will be as keen on a quarter Kit-Kat?

[pax britanica]

Companies always find an excuse not to do the right and often harder thing. Cut don;t grow , etc and modern managers can seldom look beyond this . The execs see their tenure as a few short years so preserving the values of the brand is of no interest to them compared to quarterly 'numbers'.

I dont mind BoB on short haul except that it should be the law that each pax gets a free bottle of water not the recycled toxic version in the tanks. For many in the London area choice is determined by airport and location for me its LHR 1 LGW 2 and STN never since it takes longer to get to the airport than the flight. Also FF miles can be a big issue for regular company travellers .

But BA are damaging their brand , they do well across the pond and are every popular for US travellers, if they stat to look like UA or AA well America first will kick in and there is no way back from these changes once they are made.

I think BA face a real challenge from EZY in Europe but if they are clever they can sue the enormous advantage of interlining pax at LHR to bump up the SH revenues BUT for years they have palyed that game the other way around by giving most of the connecting sector to LH and whining about SH losses so that needs a change of focus.

Also I think WW has had his time, a bit like Arsene Wenger at Arsenal he did agood job but he doesnt bring much value to the airline now and he should move on taking the current lo-rent BA boss with him and getting a more marketing /service focussed guy running BA and someone with a bit more ambition ( meaning for the airline not personal ambition) as the IAG head

[air pig]

Flew on the BA Gibralter to Heathrow service yesterday evening. I felt so sorry for the crew who are having to implement this service. If it had not been for our friendly French air traffickers who helpfully are on strike adding an extra hour to the flight, service would have go until not far from the start of descent.

Service was slow due to having only one payment machine on board, the constant return of one of the crew members having to return to the galley to heat some of the food on offer.

Many of my fellow passengers made comments to the crew about this lamentable situation, at no time did they criticise the crew but they criticise BA management who implemented this!

For BA, the standards of Easy Jet and Ryanair are an aspiration to reach for! For BA management, you have let the cabin crews down by this stupid idea.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Very badly implemented. Aer Lingus and Iberia short haul have been LCCs for years, Iberia Express and Vueling are full LCCs. Why not work with other group partners to roll out a dependable service.

The second it became apparent that these wonderful space age payment machines aren't working as planned, they should have switched the policy the next day to accept cash and should have until this day as it seems a workable solution is still no clearer.

All it will do is annoy customers. If they think easyJet charge for bags, charge for seat assignment and charge for food whilst managing to actually serve more passengers and get everyone served then..... I might as well fly EasyJet.

[ZFT]

Interestingly last week had the opportunity to compare BA and eastJet on a LHR -TLS (BA) TLS-LGW (EZY) trip.

BA had far longer and a more protracted check in process and boarding was not so good as I have no One World affiliation so I had to wait until just about everyone else had boarded. Nothing between them in terms of comfort, both aircraft looked somewhat tired. Service quite similar.

Didn't use BOB on BA as no acceptable credit cards but had a pretty acceptable Bacon Baguette with coffee (and a free KitKat thrown in) on the easyJet return as they accept cash.

The only significant difference was the price. Both flights were booked on the same day about 5 weeks ago and there was a very, very significant difference. There is now no difference between them in terms of product.

[Another James]

Although Ba are adapting the so called low cost approach,there is one exception.

BA are currently involved in an industrial dispute,cant see the so called low cost airlines inflicting that on their customers.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/05/british-airways-ba-cabin-crew-begin-six-days-strikes

[wiggy]

BA are currently involved in an industrial dispute,cant see the so called low cost airlines inflicting that on their customers.

Really?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37456624

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/06/easyjet-pilots-strike-in-amsterdam-but-most-flights-unaffected/

( Not picking on Easy BTW, they are just a recent example)


TBF at BA the IA involves a minority of the cabin crew and so whilst causing internal turmoil at times (e.g. short notice recrewing, wet leases etc ) the company is claiming that customers are getting to their destinations, albeit perhaps not on their original itinary or on an aircraft with a BA paint scheme.

Others here will no doubt have more detail/the truth behind BA's claims.

[Another James]

My business involves me being at different places at very short notice,usually flying every day in club (at my own cost).
So been there,done it and wearing the tee shirt.
Not offering negative comments here (they are doing their best to get customers to their destinations during this dispute,just hope the dispute is over soon).

[Davef68]

C For many in the London area choice is determined by airport and location for me its LHR 1 LGW 2 and STN never since it takes longer to get to the airport than the flight. Also FF miles can be a big issue for regular company travellers .


I do a lot of work in various parts of London, so choice of airport (from EDI) depends on where my customers are - Stansted or Luton for the North/East, Gatwick for South and LHR for the West. It's interesting that the BA prices to LGW are usually much less than to LHR (I have on one occasion flown to LGW for a meeting under the Heathrow flight path as LHR was just too expensive at short notice). Customers pay my expenses so their is a commercial reason to keep as cheap as possible. I used to use Virgin quite a lot when they were on LHR route, but now it's back to BA. (Flybe - two hours EDI to LHR? No thanks)

This week was first flight on BA since BoB came in - I grabbed an M&S sandwich in the shop at the airport, cost me £3.50. Missed my cookd breakfast and coffee though!

I suspect BA will survive on the company accounts (where BA means Booked Always) where people can top up their Avios.

[Ignore the HUD]

Ive been delayed before on the tarmac/gate and the pliot has authorised the crew to give out water, this was served from large bottles . Do they carry enough stocks to do this now if required?

[vctenderness]

It seems that BA are now considering charging for food and drink in longhaul economy supposedly it's what we all want according to Mr Cruz.

He is obsessed with competing with the likes of Norwegian which is totally insignificant in the longhaul market compared with BA.

BA is sinking like a stone!

[Planemike]

and they wonder why Emirates has grown to the size it is in 30 years....!

[WHBM]

Charging for long haul meals

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5f613c02-1c83-11e7-90b3-67de1d6b4791

Alex Cruz still thinks he is at Vueling and doesn't have a clue about mainstream carriers (apart from his experience at American - enough said). I wonder why Willie Walsh doesn't suss him.

The issue with BOB is that carriers typically don't load enough for everyone, assuming a "predicted" proportion will not buy. So, as we are hearing only too often, pax further back sometimes don't get the chance to have anything. They may get away with this on a 1 hour flight, but doing this on long haul will lead to riots.

I see Cruz now says that passengers "welcome the chance to pay for M&S food". That's a downright lie. We don't.

[mftx7jrn]

Personally I don't think BA will get away with charging people for food on LH flights. They may have on SH but LH is different. Customers will just go elsewhere unless BA drop their prices accordingly to match the competition, which is unlikely. Good luck to Mr Cruz if he thinks it will boost revenue.

[ExGrunt]

Had my first experience of BoB today.

I am left with the feeling of what is the point of BA? A no frills service cannot sustain a full service fare.

Further, when flying from a regional airport a poor short haul connecting flight has a knock on effect on the choice of the subsequent long haul sector.

It is like watching a replay of the demise of the British car industry.

[Heathrow Harry]

we now buy a nice packed lunch from the Fortnum's shop airside in T5

At least you know you will have something to eat .............

[PAXboy]

Many moons ago - like 10 years ago - we discussed inthis forum how BA was going through the classic 'Death of a Thousand Cuts'.

[pax britanica]

In S E England I think it is coming down to which airport is nearer/ easier. Cost of getting to airport . time to get there and parking are more important than the fare.

Even then BA are at a disadvantage as LHR is the most expensive, perhaps Mr Cruz can get his countrymen to cut the charges at LHR to help his cruzade.

I have just booked a trip to France at end of month and as both BA and EZ go from LGW my preference and proximity to LHR means the slight advantage in better times means I will choose EZ over BA .

If they go this way on LH then BA are toast

[iggie]

I don't understand the reference to <proximity to LHR>

[yellowtriumph]

We've just got back from a trip to Florence from London City airport on BA and were slightly surprised, but delighted, to have a meal and an alcoholic beverage on both legs of the journey. We were in 'Eurotraveller' so nothing special.

I thought we were going to have the 'buy an M&S sandwich' experience?

[DaveReidUK]

"We’re proud to be partnering with Marks & Spencer, another iconic British brand, to offer you the M&S on board menu in our Euro Traveller cabin to and from London Heathrow and London Gatwick."

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/information/food-and-drink/short-haul-economy-dining

[yellowtriumph]

Ah .. so just Heathrow and Gatwick then, I did wonder. Have to say the City airport experience was tip top.

[Rated De]

Obsession with cost reduction is not confined to BA nor Europe. Have a look at the bizarro configuration some spreadsheet cowboy dreamed up for his equally silly ' CEO at Qantas on the 'game changing' 787 configuration....

When this current period in business ends, probably with a substantial correction, MBA driven accounting will be yanked from the seat. Hopefully the more insightful airlines are realising that a value proposition means less PR and spin and more value. This generate yield and return patronage.

[Basil]

We live in Bucks and went City > Florence last year but it's a long way to City.
This year seven of us went LHR > Pisa. We were going to hire a couple of cars* in Italy anyway so just drove up. Little roads N of Florence, Fiesole etc can be a bit of a PITA as can Florence with roadworks confounding GPS plans; fined last year for inadvertently entering bus lane.

If we lived in London or to the east LCY would be great.

Anyway, on the return PSA>LHR they ran out of everything but snacks. I hope their stock planning is a bit better now.

* Hired from Avis via BA and all went well with not a single problem. In fact, I didn't accept GPS and took TomTom but the cars were fitted with SatNav anyway.