TTAF MAX

[Soundcheck]

Aircraft values for corporate jets continue to plummet as a result of supply and demand - too much supply (world wide). This is resulting in higher time airframes available on the pre-owned market at what appear to be very low prices. Good bang for the buck? Maybe or maybe not. Given good maintenance history, what would be the maximum Total Time Airframe ("TTAF") and/or age to consider for any given jet aircraft acquisition, and why? (Engines are not part of this discussion as most are on a MSP of some type.) Some aircraft have unlimited airframes, while others are restricted to TTAF/age, which ever comes first. More specifically, is there a hull TTAF and/or age limition for the Citation X?

[Amadis of Gaul]

I take it, you're asking because of the few C-X airframes available out there with 14-15K TTAF priced around $2mil?

[galaxy flyer]

A $2 million, 14k hour C-X maybe the most expensive plane ever.

GF

[Soundcheck]

Simply stated, what is the maximum TTAF/age of any jet aircraft to be considered for acquisition, and why?

[Amadis of Gaul]

Simply stated, what is the maximum TTAF/age of any jet aircraft to be considered for acquisition, and why?
I don't know if this is the sort of question that can be simply answered, regardless of how simply it was stated.

[Soundcheck]

I don't know if this is the sort of question that can be simply answered, regardless of how simply it was stated.
Responses from Galaxy Flyer and Amaris of Gaul are on point. High hour aircraft at a low price could well be very expensive which reflects physical obsolescence, and it's not that simple because market depreciation must also be considered (i.e. a 650 hour TTAF Hawker 4000 is listed at low $4M). So, it's apparent to me one would have to consider each aircraft type to reach a conclusion of whether or not an acquisition is a "good" buy. This being said, what type of aircraft will provide the highest return on investment? Stated differently, what's better, a lower hour Hawker 4000, a high hour GIV or Falcon 50 for example? The use of the aircraft will be supplemented with Part 135 charter ops.

[GlenQuagmire]

a relatively low hour Hawker 4000 was recently sold for well under $500,000

Does that give you a clue how expensive an underpriced airframe can be?

[Soundcheck]

a relatively low hour Hawker 4000 was recently sold for well under $500,000

Does that give you a clue how expensive an underpriced airframe can be?
Wow, it's hard to believe a Hawker 4000 can be had for $500K. If so, I'd jump on that deal. Wouldn't you? According to BCA article written by Fred George dated February 27, 2016, "the Hawker 4000 if it undergoes a rigorous due diligence pre-buy process, can be a great buy... RC-7 through RC-51 have dozens of shortcomings repaired with a block point upgrade (BPU) phased in at RC-52... Thrust reverser corrosion inspection, fuel tank inspection and landing gear corrosion inspection are must." Did the quoted comp of $500K include a BPU upgrade? Can parts be found for the Hawker 4000? If not, what are alternative pre-owned super-mid sized aircraft to be considered for acquisition? Mission profile includes KSFO-PHKP. Also quoted, I'm looking for a prize "instead of a pig-in-poke".

[Booglebox]

My previous employers used to operate a 6000-hr teenaged C560XL. When it was repainted a couple of years ago they found lots of corrosion, and quite a lot of money is being spent on maintenance.
The owners are quite sensible and are trying to replace it with an XLS+ but it's not really worth very much...

At my local airport there are a couple of Rockwell Sabreliners and Lockheed JetStars regularly on the move...
There is a HA4T based at my local airfield too and it seems to have frequent technical problems - crew telling ATC they need to taxi back to the ramp to turn everything off and on again, etc. Shame, I quite like the design.

[Amadis of Gaul]

At my local airport there are a couple of Rockwell Sabreliners and Lockheed JetStars regularly on the move...


Indeed. A particular JetStar (N900DB) has been for sale on and off at least since I started flight school back in 1999.

[tommoutrie]

No, the 4000 needed the block point upgrade and the FAA were not letting it fly without it. But it was low hours and it was an astonishing price!

[Soundcheck]

No, the 4000 needed the block point upgrade and the FAA were not letting it fly without it. But it was low hours and it was an astonishing price!
According to the article previously referenced, the BPU is no longer available as a retrofit package for the Hawker 4000 because parts are not available. Wasn't Cessna-Textron planning to take over maintenance for the 4000? I wonder how the $500K Hawker 4000 w/out the BPU mentioned above acquired parts to regain airworthy status?

[Amadis of Gaul]

Mission profile includes KSFO-PHKP. Also quoted, I'm looking for a prize "instead of a pig-in-poke".

You mean PHKO?

[Soundcheck]

Yes, PHKO. That's what happens while eating Cheetos and typing with thumbs. Just glad my iPad wasn't an FMS ;)

[Soundcheck]

So, given the Hawker 4000 didn't make the cut, what aircraft will best accomplish the KSFO-PHKO mission for a budget minded (acquisition and DOCs) Buyer? G200 or Challenger 604?

[Amadis of Gaul]

You'll have to give us a bit more information. Firstly, what exactly does "budget-minded" mean in this case? Secondly, will the whole Kona thing be something the airplane will be doing all the time or only occasionally and, if it's the latter, what will the majority of the flight profile look like? Thirdly, how many people and/or how much stuff will you be carrying? Fourthly, how much flying will you be doing (hours per year)?

Start with that.