EC225.....CAA meeting with Airbus Helicopters

[gnow]

I was told the CAA had a meeting with Airbus Helicopters on the EC 225 return to service issue for UK. Anyone has any idea on what the outcome is? Don't know how their decision is going to affect the rest of the operators in the world.

[Brother83]

Yes, that would be very good news for companies who own many H225, for Oil & Gas passengers regarding the lasts events on S92 in North Sea and also for H225 rated pilots who eager to fly again on this safe and confortable helicopter.:D

[tottigol]

:oh:
It maybe too short of a comment.😂😂😂😂😂😂😢😢😢😢😢😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Frying Pan]

Regardless of Brother83's first post (H225 safe and comfortable???) I can imagine this aircraft is doomed in the North Sea and with the CAA. The media ran big widow maker headlines after the 3rd accident, including photos of all the workers killed in this type of helicopter. The litigation would be immense and too much to bear if another accident happened. That's why I think it won't be serving the O&G industry under CAA jurisdiction.

[jimf671]

But what are the choices?

S-92 is not perfect any more than any other helicopter, as demonstrated a couple of weeks ago.

H175 and AW189 are stepping up with their 16-seat capacity. However, both operators and makers are still learning how to get the best out of these new types. The regulator has a say in how fast they get to learn.

With the aircraft that carried a very large part of the workload out of the picture, the pressure is on the other types in a way that it was never on the Super Puma. Somehow, a lot of people seem to think that this will be OK. I don't think it is OK.

[domperry]

A hat-tip to the original poster for the info.

Dom

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-helicopters-meets-regulators-to-discuss-h225-433169/

[noooby]

AW101 anyone??? As long as someone else pays for the re-certification of it as it is now very different from the original (civil certified) EH101.

[500 Fan]

The UK CAA declines to confirm that talks on the H225 have taken place, simply saying that its representatives “regularly meet with companies across the aviation sector to discuss a broad range of issues”.

“These frequent meetings are part of our ongoing programme of industry engagement and serve a number of purposes. Earlier this week representatives of the CAA met with Airbus Helicopters at the manufacturer’s headquarters, as part of this programme.”

Or the man from the CAA could just have said "yes". :ugh:

500 Fan.

[lowfat]

Better dust of your passports and vaccination certs.. looks like the dark continent is hungry for 225s..

Meanwhile, in a further sign of the H225’s rehabilitation, lessor Waypoint has placed a former offshore H225 with German operator Global Helicopter Service (GHS).

It intends to deploy the aircraft in Africa on contract work for non-governmental and humanitarian relief agencies – a market dominated by the Russian-built Mil Mi-8/17.

Dominik Goldfuss, chief executive of GHS, says he is “110% convinced” of the type’s safety. “There is nothing to fear in the H225’s overall safety record or that I have any concerns about,” he says. “As long as Airbus Helicopters is giving me confidence that they are doing everything to sort this problem I don’t have any issues.”

Goldfuss points to a large pool of available H225s, all drawn from the offshore industry; the airframe GHS will receive will require reconfiguration work, he says, “as we don’t need the offshore gear”. shamelessy stolen from flightglobal

[whoknows idont]

Better dust of your passports and vaccination certs.. looks like the dark continent is hungry for 225s..

Beware of that operator (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/477391-helog-global.html)! :suspect:

[Frying Pan]

225 in Africa you say?

In Africa...like space....no one can hear you scream!

Good luck to all.

[Pablo332]

MI8/17 work is realistically the only work available at the moment for the 225, bit like using a Ferrari on budget tires for taxi work but there you go.

[lowfat]

what can possibly go wrong? at least they'll be comfortable.

[Brother83]

Yes, I do confirm, safe and comfortable, despite your doubts, dear colleague!
Of course, the last 225 crash is a terrible tragedy and I really wish that never happen anymore, whatever the aircraft type.
Unfortunately, it's not the first aircraft accident that killed people, most often due to human factors (engineers or pilots).
I can easily understand that CAA UK & Norway require more certainties regarding the root cause of the crash and further garanties to prevent this from happening again in their airspace.
But numerous 225/725 have been flying without a single MGB incident reported since AH has taken appropriates measures, approved by both EASA & FAA.
I think AH will propose new procedures to enhance the MGB integrity monitoring which will lead CAA to approve the 225 to get back in a row.
Regarding the Union, what would they have said if the S92 had crashed on deck, killing 11 more people? "ban the S92 too!"?
All offshore pilots will have soon then to chuck their licence out, manufacturer to close doors and oil workers to sail perilously into galleys toward their northern rigs..
cheer up!

[Geoffersincornwall]

In his famous book 'The Naked Pilot' (should be compulsory reading for all aviators) David Beaty reveals how the collective managing elite (government, airline, manufacturer and regulator (which included the AIB in those days)) covered up the shortcomings in the DH Comet's performance. One pilot was disciplined and demoted after one accident caused by these shortcomings but none of these managing elite would speak out on his behalf. The rest is history - we now have an independent AAIB.

The UK has it's historical skeletons in the cupboard and we have to wonder if AH will rue the day they decided to be less than honest (or maybe economical with the truth?) following the 225's Norwegian disaster.

It is not the statistical probability of another MGB problem that dissuades us from supporting the aircraft's future use. I suggest it is a lack of confidence in the OEM. Can we ever trust them again?

G.

[500 Fan]

Brother83, I wonder if the two pilots in LN-OJF turned to each other after the main rotor had separated from the rest of their 225 and said "cheer up"? I doubt it, somehow.


500 Fan.

[henra]

Brother83, I wonder if the two pilots in LN-OJF turned to each other after the main rotor had separated from the rest of their 225 and said "cheer up"? I doubt it, somehow.

They surely didn't. As didn't those that were going to die in dozens of other fatal accidents in other Types for various other causes.

I in so far agree with Brother83 that from a pure statistical perspective the 225 is still very safe. The trouble is that Human can rather deal with a cause that is known and where the fix is to hopefully not f**k up a again (although chances are someone will) than with a cause that is statistically much less likely but where there is no sure fix and which will have no chance of recovery if it occurs. It is something about Human nature. Percieved risks and real risks are usually as far apart as you can imagine. In all walks of Life.

What is also contributing massively in this particular case is the unbelievable arrogance the Manufacturer has displayed over the past episodes of troubles with the Puma Family.

[Brother83]

No need to reply to 500 FAN, Henra did it very well, thank you :ok:

Coming back to the behavior the manufacturer displayed in the past, I think this new hardship for their reputation forced them to realize (at last..) they had to change their arrogant way to communicate with their clients. Then AH is currently operating a massive internal reorganization plan, in the communication department as well.
They used to convince us they have been building the safest and unmatched advanced helicopters for ages, but now reality caught them up: they are only like others manufacturers, with their strength and weaknesses.:hmm:

[Pablo332]

Yes, I do confirm, safe and comfortable, despite your doubts, dear colleague!
Of course, the last 225 crash is a terrible tragedy and I really wish that never happen anymore, whatever the aircraft type.
Unfortunately, it's not the first aircraft accident that killed people, most often due to human factors (engineers or pilots).
I can easily understand that CAA UK & Norway require more certainties regarding the root cause of the crash and further garanties to prevent this from happening again in their airspace.
But numerous 225/725 have been flying without a single MGB incident reported since AH has taken appropriates measures, approved by both EASA & FAA.
I think AH will propose new procedures to enhance the MGB integrity monitoring which will lead CAA to approve the 225 to get back in a row.
Regarding the Union, what would they have said if the S92 had crashed on deck, killing 11 more people? "ban the S92 too!"?
All offshore pilots will have soon then to chuck their licence out, manufacturer to close doors and oil workers to sail perilously into galleys toward their northern rigs..
cheer up!
After your first post I thought very sarcastic for a first post.

After your second post I thought Oh my god he’s serious.

Do you live in Aix or do you commute?

[Brother83]

You got it right Pablo332, I am Ex-commuter!
Qualified on 332L2 and H225, I am one of the many unemployed pilots hoping for H225 worldwide rehabilitation in offshore after that all aviation authorities approved it.
Nothing deliberately sarcastic in my remarks, but just my point of view.

[Pablo332]

As soon as the technical minds immeasurably superior to mine in the UK and Norway pronounce the 225 safe I’ll be more than happy to see one fly over my house.

[helicrazi]

Fly over your house? How about come back when your happy to sit in the LH or RH seat?

[etudiant]

No need to reply to 500 FAN, Henra did it very well, thank you :ok:

Coming back to the behavior the manufacturer displayed in the past, I think this new hardship for their reputation forced them to realize (at last..) they had to change their arrogant way to communicate with their clients. Then AH is currently operating a massive internal reorganization plan, in the communication department as well.
They used to convince us they have been building the safest and unmatched advanced helicopters for ages, but now reality caught them up: they are only like others manufacturers, with their strength and weaknesses.:hmm:
Interesting about the internal reorg at AH, it seems to be happening without much publicity.
Perhaps getting the corporate brass to publicly fall on their swords is not fashionable at AH, even though some might view it as essential to wiping the slate clean.
At this point, such an AH initiative appears very much to be a 'day late and dollar short'.

[cteneto139]

An interesting fact happened here where I live: a company got a freight flight using a 225. After all settled, an Oil and Gas company has refused to permit the 225 land there at its oil rig. Result: The flight was cancelled and this, gave us a gray area picture about the future of 225, at least a this time.

[jimf671]

... Perhaps getting the corporate brass to publicly fall on their swords is not fashionable at AH, even though some might view it as essential to wiping the slate clean.
At this point, such an AH initiative appears very much to be a 'day late and dollar short'.


Do you mean that they are chucking out all the people who might know something about the problem? That's normally a British approach rather than a French one isn't it?

[etudiant]

You raise a good point, the market collapse of the 225 has very much impacted AH.
When people get laid off, corporate memory goes with them. That makes fixing the problem even more difficult.