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Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 17:23
Reports of several people shot at Terminal 2 at Ft. Lauderdale, Florida airport.

Tweet from former Presidential Press Secretary Ari Fleischer:

Ari Fleischer ‏@AriFleischer 27m
27 minutes ago

I'm at the Ft. Lauderdale Airport. Shots have been fired. Everyone is running.

Kulverstukas
6th Jan 2017, 17:34
Gunman Opens Fire at Fort Lauderdale Airport, Killing 1 - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gunman-opens-fire-fort-lauderdale-airport-killing-1-n704001)

Carbon Bootprint
6th Jan 2017, 17:41
CBS now reporting 3 people are dead. CNN reported shooter "in custody" though CBS says status of shooter is unknown.

TowerDog
6th Jan 2017, 18:18
Too close for comfort.
Wife flying in to KFLL, with luggage.
(This happened in baggage claim)

Sad day for those shot, and for their relatives.
Curious if this is another peaceful Muslim with a gun, or a regular nutcase with a gun?
Either way, too many guns being sold to mental cases in this country.
(I know, the NRA says everybody should be armed so the gunman could have been taken out right away.)

Now we will get screening before entering baggage claim. :ooh:

Hotel Tango
6th Jan 2017, 18:38
Now we will get screening before entering baggage claim.

Strangely enough, meeting my son at LAS (whilst there on vacation myself) in November, I remarked to my wife how anyone had free access to the arrival area and baggage belts for domestic flights.

Mr Magnetic
6th Jan 2017, 18:43
BBC reporting 5 dead and 1 person in custody.

Fort Lauderdale airport shooting: Multiple people shot dead by Florida gunman - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38535699)

foxmoth
6th Jan 2017, 18:44
Now we will get screening before entering baggage claim.

I do not see how he got to baggage claim without being screened -you can't normally get to baggage reclaim unless you have travelled and he should have been screened before boarding. The only other way is to be staff and they should still be screened.
The next question is, did he have the arms IN his checked baggage and access them when he picked up his bags?

lomapaseo
6th Jan 2017, 18:46
Well CNN has it live as it develops and it is informative to see how people there are reacting. I have no intention of being judgmental but at this same time it's learning point.

Hundreds of people are swarming in panic mode back and forth between terminals, parking buildings and airport tarmacs reacting to running armed officers attempting to run back and forth in sweeps of areas. It reminds me of sheep reacting to sheep dogs moving in a controlled manner, but at the same time the sheep are being driven by fear.

Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 18:49
FLL terminal 1 now evacuated, reports of one shooting victim there...

Now the casualty is reported as a dog bite victim near the Southwest counter.

BernerOH
6th Jan 2017, 19:06
Baggage Claim is pre-screening, so anyone can enter this area. The doors open to the street, so it is possible.

India Four Two
6th Jan 2017, 19:09
there is no security for the baggage reclaim on domestic flights; meeters and greeters can join travellers there.

That's true for all the domestic flights I've taken in the US and Canada. Prior to 9/11, you could meet people at the gate.

Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 19:28
Miami-Dade bringing additional SWAT assets by helo, a new phone call claiming shots fired at the JetBlue counter, Terminal 3.

Senator Bill Nelson identifies the suspect in custody as Esteban Santiago. Reports say Santiago was wearing a Star Wars t-shirt.

Turbine D
6th Jan 2017, 19:32
The shooting occurred in the Terminal 2 Delta/Air Canada baggage claim. The alleged shooter, 26 yr old, Esteban Santiago, now is in custody He had a military ID. There are conflicting stories as to how he arrived at baggage claim with a weapon. One eye witness said he walked in through the doors next to Starbucks and started shooting. Another story had him arriving on an Air Canada flight, the weapon being in his checked luggage that he recovered in the men's lavatory and came out shooting. The airport operation has been suspended and the scene is still considered an active crime scene, opening of the airport is uncertain at this time.

Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 19:42
Another story had him arriving on an Air Canada flight, the weapon being in his checked luggage that he recovered in the men's lavatory and came out shooting.

And he could legally put the weapon in his checked baggage on an international flight and then retrieve it on arrival in baggage claim without passing security. :eek:

From a @CP24 tweet:

A spokesman for Air Canada says all its passengers/employees at Fort Lauderdale airport are "accounted for & safe'' following mass shooting

standbykid
6th Jan 2017, 20:37
Air Canada have said no one by that name was on any of their flights.

Turbine D
6th Jan 2017, 20:42
And he could legally put the weapon in his checked baggage on an international flight and then retrieve it on arrival in baggage claim without passing security.
It may not have been an international flight, per-se. It was a domestic airline flight out of Alaska. Also, you do not have to pass through security to retrieve a checked hand gun. To be able to check the hand gun, you have to declare it, you have to prove it belongs to you, that you have license to carry it both at the departure site (Alaska) and arrival site (Florida) and of course proper personal identification. The gun must be in a approved locked case to which he had the only access to. Apparently, Santiago met all the legal requirements.

SASless
6th Jan 2017, 20:43
Handguns are banned in Canada....thus for the Killer to have brought one into the USA from Canada seems awfully suspect. How many events of smuggling would be required to evade all Security Measures and Guns Laws in Canada to make that happen.

Owing to the lack of Security Measures at a Domestic Baggage Claim in US Airports....very big odds the firearm was brought in from the local area by the Killer.

We shall soon learn this is a Self Radicalized Individual who was resident in the USA.....I am willing to bet.

Anyone care to bet the Firearm was legally purchased or was a Straw Man purchase and was bought in the USA recently.

Del Prado
6th Jan 2017, 20:49
Self radicalised? Have you considered it might not be terrorism?

Honourably discharged from military 4 months ago. Christian church goer. Big Disney fan.

More likely (yet) another nut job with a gun in the land where one toddler per week shoots someone.

Likely Facebook profile here http://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000492021832https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000492021832

SASless
6th Jan 2017, 20:58
That must be a very violent Toddler that shoots someone every week!:rolleyes:

Orange future
6th Jan 2017, 20:58
"Curious if this is another peaceful Muslim with a gun"

5% chance

"or a regular nutcase with a gun"

95% chance.

ericsson16
6th Jan 2017, 21:12
Another veteran goes cuckoos,how can you be a veteran of anything at 26 years old! Maybe he is a cuckoos veteran.

The Sultan
6th Jan 2017, 21:40
Flight (or pass/bags) originated in Alaska.

Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 22:04
Air Canada have said no one by that name was on any of their flights.

It now looks like he took Delta 1088 ANC-MSP and Delta 2182 MSP-FLL.

Guns are very common in checked baggage out of ANC in my experience.

Years ago a jumpseating cargo pilot fired a round into the American Airlines ticket counter at ANC while trying to show that his firearm was unloaded. Don't know if he still got the ride.

FIRESYSOK
6th Jan 2017, 22:19
One thing these latest 'incidents' have in common: most if not all involved had had prior contact with the FBI.

TowerDog
6th Jan 2017, 22:20
The suspect showed up several months ago at the FBI office in Anchorage, law enforcement officials told CNN. He was interviewed and said he was hearing voices in his head, including some telling him to join ISIS. He was taken to a hospital for a mental health evaluation, the officials said. He voluntarily checked himself in, the officials explained

Evey_Hammond
6th Jan 2017, 22:48
The planes sat on the runway for the past 5 or so hours have had issues with running out of food & water, full loos that needed draining, not enough fuel to reach their original destinations so will need refuelling and so on. There are also issues with infants running out of formula and a diabetic needing substantial meal (or an ambulance will be needed). There's also the issue that the pilots aren't receiving much information (to pass onto the passengers).

The pilot is the person in charge of the plane, and the passengers, so hypothetically in this scenario can the pilot allow the passengers to disembark? I'm not saying it would be the best idea, just wondering.

Airbubba
6th Jan 2017, 23:40
One thing these latest 'incidents' have in common: most if not all involved had had prior contact with the FBI.

Looks like Santiago's visit to the ANC FBI to report his call to jihad by ISIS was only a few weeks ago.

This article raises a possible air rage angle and gives the suspect's rap sheet history of traffic tickets, domestic violence, kiddie porn and non-payment of rent.

Police: Suspected Gunman Got Into An Argument During Flight

January 6, 2017 5:20 PM

FORT LAUDERDALE (CBSMiami) — Federal law enforcement sources said the suspected gunman in a deadly attack at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport got into an argument during his flight from Alaska to Florida.

They’re now investigating whether that’s what set off a shooting rampage that left 5 dead and 8 others wounded.

Esteban Santiago-Ruiz, 26, took a flight from Alaska to Florida Friday with a stop in Minnesota, officials said. Somewhere along the way, he got into an argument.

Passengers are legally allowed to travel with guns and ammunition as long as the firearms are unloaded, secured in a lock box and not brought on board the plane as a carry-on. They must be declared to the airline at check-in.

Earlier reports claimed Santiago-Ruiz came in on a flight from Canada. On the company’s Twitter account, Air Canada confirmed that no one by that name was on their flight.

Air Canada flights arrive to Terminal 2, where the shooting took place.

It was later determined that Santiago-Ruiz was on a Delta Air Lines flight.

Police were able to apprehend the suspect without having to fire their own weapons when he apparently ran out of bullets. Witnesses said he threw down his firearm and laid down on the floor.

Santiago-Ruiz was born to Puerto Rican parents in New Jersey and recently became a father of a baby boy.

According to the Associated Press, the Pentagon said he went AWOL several times as a specialist during a stint with the Alaska National Guard and was demoted to private first class. He was given a general discharge, which is different from an honorable discharge.

In November 2016, he walked into an FBI office in Anchorage claiming that he was being forced to fight for ISIS and was sent to a psychiatric hospital, officials revealed.

In 2011 or 2012, he was investigated by Homeland Security Investigations for child porn. Three weapons and a computer were seized, but there was not enough evidence to prosecute, according to law enforcement sources.

Santiago also has a record for minor traffic violations and was evicted in 2015 for not paying rent.

He wasn’t hurt in the incident and no one else was taken into custody.

Police: Suspected Gunman Got Into An Argument During Flight CBS Miami (http://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/01/06/sen-bill-nelson-identifies-suspected-fll-gunman/)

The planes sat on the runway for the past 5 or so hours have had issues with running out of food & water, full loos that needed draining, not enough fuel to reach their original destinations so will need refuelling and so on. There are also issues with infants running out of formula and a diabetic needing substantial meal (or an ambulance will be needed). There's also the issue that the pilots aren't receiving much information (to pass onto the passengers).

I agree, these terror incidents can be so inconvenient for the survivors. :{

CityofFlight
6th Jan 2017, 23:57
The FBI should've put him on a flying watch list. The guy came to them, fully showing he had issues. He never should've been allowed to have a weapon, much less be allowed to check one in coming to the lower 48, with psychiatric issues. This is where the system fails, time and time again.

Intruder
7th Jan 2017, 01:54
Yep! The "privacy" laws counteract the "security" laws, so psychiatric deficits are NOT reported and entered into the NICS database. Therefore, a nutcase can still buy guns.

peekay4
7th Jan 2017, 05:23
Nowadays most states (including Alaska) have laws mandating inclusion of relevant psychiatric records into the federal database. As such the NICS database contains millions of mental health records.

However, federal laws only bar those with very severe mental illnesses from purchasing guns -- specifically those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution, or otherwise declared by a court or other authority as being "mentally defect".

Only a handful of states have additional restrictions, and Alaska isn't one of them. Even in Seattle, you can check yourself into a mental hospital on Monday, then buy a handgun on Tuesday.

In this case it's not clear if the alleged shooter was involuntarily committed after he approached the FBI back in November. Besides, Alaska doesn't require background checks for all gun purchases.

It is interesting that quite a few of these "mass shooters" have had relatively recent FBI / Homeland Security involvement.

ExXB
7th Jan 2017, 08:18
Would never never be allowed through TSA screening.And the TSA has a 100% success rate in preventing guns, and Swiss Army knives, from being taken on board.

{sarcasm}

westhawk
7th Jan 2017, 08:56
He declared the weapon at origin and complied with the packaging requirement. Ammunition and magazines may be carried in the same locked container as the gun. It seems that after recovering the lawfully packaged weapon from the baggage claim, he went to the restroom, removed it from his now claimed baggage, loaded it and came out firing soon after. It was only when he used the gun that he committed a serious unlawful act.

So it won't be long before the calls for a ban on the practice of legally transporting a firearm in checked baggage. Won't do a bit of good. For every precaution taken, there are several other ways to achieve the same or worse outcome by another route.

Trav a la
7th Jan 2017, 09:48
Being allowed to check in a firearm is one thing but ALSO allowing ammunition for the firearm is another.

I'm quite shocked to hear that this is allowed.

Surely it would be common sense to not allow live ammunition on domestic flights.

ExXB
7th Jan 2017, 10:18
As the baggage reclaim areas at many US airports are 'land side' restricting what can be carried in checked baggage would make no sense. Someone can just walk off the street, legally loaded to bear, and do their worse.

Putting baggage claim 'air side' would make no sense either as pax would have access to naughty things in their checked luggage.

Redesigning every US airport to put baggage claim between the two won't happen.

homonculus
7th Jan 2017, 11:37
Goodness gracious gentlemen

Surely this is about a young man who is possibly schitzophrenic asking for help who then uses a legally held gun to kill fellow citizens. What is needed is better mental health care to treat his illness. What diagnosis was made? What treatment was given? Yes it would be sensible to withhold gun licenses from people with ongoing mental health issues but he could have used a knife as others have done so many times in the UK... It is nothing to do with airports or gun carriage. He could just as easily have run amok in a cinema or mall......like others have

I suspect he will be incarcerated for 100 years or so rather than being given treatment. And the killing will go on. Mental health isnt sexy. Either side of the pond

westhawk
7th Jan 2017, 11:39
Surely it would be common sense to not allow live ammunition on domestic flights.


From an air safety perspective, I'm more concerned by electronic devices and their batteries. Small quantities of packaged small arms ammo is unlikely to become a serious safety hazard .

From a security perspective, there's not much to stop armed perpetrators from simply entering the terminal from the street side. This crime occurred outside the security perimeter, where most airports should be considered relatively soft targets. Perhaps similar to shopping malls in terms of access control, though usually superior in terms of police response.

I think the pertinent question might be how much security do we desire and what will we trade for it?

ericsson16
7th Jan 2017, 12:48
westhawk "Small quantities of packaged small arms ammo is unlikely to become a serious safety hazard . " Esteban Santiago agrees with you wholeheartedly!

wrench1
7th Jan 2017, 13:10
Thank you, Homonculus.

Having had to deal with someone who has mental health issues, until we drag this social taboo subject out in the open and collectively deal with it, these preventable, senseless acts will continue whether by gun, knife, or flying a perfectly good airplane into a mountain.

paperHanger
7th Jan 2017, 14:32
When I'm not sitting at the front playing with the controls, I have been know to do a bit of shooting, long range rifle competitions. I have flown to a fair few competitions in far away places, the procedures vary, but, in general, collecting a firearm straight off the luggage belt is normal. In times past they used to put a big red "FIREARM" tag on the transit case. For reasons unknown the procedure for ammunition seems to vary greatly, some places don't like it in the same case, some don't care. One flight (some years ago) the captain didn't like the idea of the ammo in the same case in the hold as the rifle, so they offloaded it, and made me extract the ammo and bring it as cabin baggage, I kid you not.

I have been known to stand right at the far end of the conveyor, just so the entire flight gets to gawp at it as it slides past.

The reality is, that while seeing it making it's way around the baggage conveyor is odd, once you step through the customs gate, you are out there in the foyer with the rest of the locals who may be carrying handguns, or not, and certainly out in the street a few metres away, it's situation normal. Going into an airport, yes, its a sterile area, coming out, it is not.

Greg_S
7th Jan 2017, 15:20
PaperHanger: I have not checked a firearm on a flight in 10+ years, but the check in procedure was what usually freaked out other passengers more, as we would have to get the weapon out of the case and prove it was unloaded right there in the terminal counter. Needless to say, there were many with an alarmed expression on their faces as I pulled an AR15 out of a case and racked the bolt.
Has anything changed significantly in the last 10 years?

scr1
7th Jan 2017, 15:31
Yes but dont think the arrangements should be talked about in public

Junkflyer
7th Jan 2017, 17:40
Where I live, buying a firearm requires a criminal/medical background check and takes two weeks for the permit.
Really not a fan of it, but if it weeds out those who hear voices in their head it seems to be a good idea.

Tarq57
7th Jan 2017, 20:50
I agree with the post by homonculous.

You take these young men, train 'em, send them to a place where their experiences are beyond what most of us ever have to think about, and some of them (maybe most of them) come back damaged.

What kind of support services are they provided with to try and make them less damaged?
Or is it simply a case of "take these pills"?

Passenger 389
7th Jan 2017, 22:09
Being allowed to check in a firearm is one thing but ALSO allowing ammunition for the firearm is another. Flying with a gun (as checked baggage) is no big deal in much of the US. I've certainly done it. Makes sense for me, given the crime rate in some US cities and motels, and at some highway rest stops, etc.

As for letting me transport my gun(s), yet not bring ammo for them - that seems just silly.

I'd have to buy ammo upon arriving at my destination. (New business opportunity - 24-hour gun shops or ammo dealers very close to airports. Maybe even with a courtesy shuttle van).

Then I'd have to throw the new ammo away before checking in for the return (or next) leg of my trip. Good quality ammo isn't cheap these days for many firearms. And in California, they reportedly will now require a background check not just to buy a firearm but also for each ammunition purchase.

Then there is the need to properly dispose of ammo, while traveling, as I prepare to head to the airport at 4 or 5am. (Shall I leave the ammo in a trash can in the airport restroom, or in the waste basket back in my hotel room? Perhaps I could hand the ammo to TSA to dispose of while checking my gun for the flight -- but even assuming TSA wants to be burdened with that, it still means I'm bringing a gun and ammo to the airport.

Seems much safer to just keep the ammo securely locked in my gun case, in checked baggage, while I'm flying.

The greater danger, by far, in my opinion is not someone traveling with a properly checked firearm, but rather the geniuses who leave guns laying around -- unlocked, and loaded, with a round already chambered -- in their home or vehicle for very young children to find and use. As they do, in surprisingly large numbers.

Now that's something we can and should be upset about.

ericsson16
8th Jan 2017, 01:11
Passenger 389,Other than Air Marshals. No Guns on Planes Period.

Tarq57"You take these young men, train 'em, send them to a place where their experiences are beyond what most of us ever have to think about, and some of them (maybe most of them) come back damaged.

What kind of support services are they provided with to try and make them less damaged?
Or is it simply a case of "take these pills"?"
What about World War two,seems to me our present generation aren't up for the job,in fact I know they aren't.

CONSO
8th Jan 2017, 01:23
Unverified- but apparently perp was some sort of private security guard in Alaska. And only checked his pistol but no baggage.
Should have raised bucu red flags ..

Sounds like the Orlando type again- private security guard .. ??

peekay4
8th Jan 2017, 01:53
Passenger 389,Other than Air Marshals. No Guns on Planes Period.
In the US many pilots are armed.

Tarq57
8th Jan 2017, 05:26
What about World War two,seems to me our present generation aren't up for the job,in fact I know they aren't.

If you're right, it's even more important that they have decent support when they come out of such an environment.

I've met folk who were in WW2. Some were relatives. Some of them came back a bit damaged, too.

ExXB
8th Jan 2017, 06:28
Passenger 389. I don't see anyone saying guns/ammo should not be allowed in checked luggage. Why bother as check-in and retrieval are in non-sterile areas. Any nut can access those areas at most airports with a loaded rifle over a shoulder and a pistol in a pocket loaded with one in the chamber.

No, more needs to be done to ensure that those with guns are sane, trained in their use and follow procedures to ensure the weapons are safe. Recurrent testing to ensure skills are maintained would be a very good thing. Yes, it would be a hassle but millions of pilots go through similar testing. It's the price they have to pay, most willingly

What worries me these days is the rising numbers of gun owners who are advancing in age and beginning to suffer from dementia. We can take away their driving licenses, but we can't touch their gun licenses.

groundagent
8th Jan 2017, 08:16
Not sure if still the situation, but in the UK it was the requirement that the gun was packed in a locked gun case and the ammunition was packed securely, separately from the gun (I'm not certain but I think it could be in original packaging in a case). The reason being if someone other than the owner picked up the gun case and opened it, the worst they could do is beat someone with an unloaded gun. If packed with ammo too, there was a higher potential for an incident. This obviously doesn't fix this issue as we understand in this situation, where the registered owner was the person committing the act.

This was for sporting weapons in UK, not just general firearms, but were permitted for flights domestically as well as internationally, subject to license, firearm and identification checks.

Expatrick
8th Jan 2017, 09:06
Flying with a gun (as checked baggage) is no big deal in much of the US. I've certainly done it. Makes sense for me, given the crime rate in some US cities and motels, and at some highway rest stops, etc.

As for letting me transport my gun(s), yet not bring ammo for them - that seems just silly.

I'd have to buy ammo upon arriving at my destination. (New business opportunity - 24-hour gun shops or ammo dealers very close to airports. Maybe even with a courtesy shuttle van).

Then I'd have to throw the new ammo away before checking in for the return (or next) leg of my trip. Good quality ammo isn't cheap these days for many firearms. And in California, they reportedly will now require a background check not just to buy a firearm but also for each ammunition purchase.

Then there is the need to properly dispose of ammo, while traveling, as I prepare to head to the airport at 4 or 5am. (Shall I leave the ammo in a trash can in the airport restroom, or in the waste basket back in my hotel room? Perhaps I could hand the ammo to TSA to dispose of while checking my gun for the flight -- but even assuming TSA wants to be burdened with that, it still means I'm bringing a gun and ammo to the airport.

Seems much safer to just keep the ammo securely locked in my gun case, in checked baggage, while I'm flying.

The greater danger, by far, in my opinion is not someone traveling with a properly checked firearm, but rather the geniuses who leave guns laying around -- unlocked, and loaded, with a round already chambered -- in their home or vehicle for very young children to find and use. As they do, in surprisingly large numbers.

Now that's something we can and should be upset about.

Chilling, absolutely chilling.

Greg_S
8th Jan 2017, 15:06
The FBI should've put him on a flying watch list. The guy came to them, fully showing he had issues. He never should've been allowed to have a weapon, much less be allowed to check one in coming to the lower 48, with psychiatric issues. This is where the system fails, time and time again.
Daily Mail reporting that the FBI confiscated his weapon, and then returned it to him a month later!

FBI seized Fort Lauderdale shooter's gun only to give it back one month later | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4097416/Gunman-picked-passengers-sent-crowds-fleeing-airport.html)

Passenger 389
8th Jan 2017, 17:15
On 8th Jan 2017, 07:28, ExXB wrote:

Passenger 389. I don't see anyone saying guns/ammo should not be allowed in checked luggage. ExXB, I was responding to post #33, which did suggest ammo not be allowed in checked luggage:


On 7th Jan 2017, 10:48 #33, Trav a la wrote:


Being allowed to check in a firearm is one thing but ALSO allowing ammunition for the firearm is another.

I'm quite shocked to hear that this is allowed.

Surely it would be common sense to not allow live ammunition on domestic flights.

ExXB
8th Jan 2017, 18:57
Passenger 389, my bad I did miss one. However as I explain in my post it wouldn't increase safety levels as so many loaded weapons are freely available and can be deployed easily to land side at any US airport.

Better to use resources to ensure weapons are not in the wrong hands. The FBI is being lambasted for returning the gun to the perpetrator, but I'm guessing that Alaskan law gave them little choice. The law should have let them keep the gun and make sure he couldn't get another one.

RatherBeFlying
9th Jan 2017, 01:44
Many of the people in the TSA lineups left these items in a rush for the exits.

They are now in limbo. Fortunately the Florida police are issuing temporary IDs and the Red Cross is sheltering them.

Florida shooting survivors stranded after losing luggage and IDs in the chaos - World - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/fort-lauderdale-stranded-missing-1.3926563)

Keep photocopies on your person.

Pali
9th Jan 2017, 07:39
I would bet this is just another SSRI drugs incident. Such pills often suppress feelings like sympathy, compassion and in many cases patients feel urge to kill innocent people around. There are plenty cases like this and almost all mass shootings have this SSRI stuff as common denominator. Lubitz was another example I guess. I am curious if this case will fit in the picture again.

westhawk
9th Jan 2017, 10:04
Esteban Santiago agrees with you wholeheartedly!Amusing.

I would expect some proposals to modify the policies and procedures for transporting firearms on airlines is already under discussion in government circles. Right along with the question of what should legally become of someone's "rights" when they appear "disturbed", but are found not to be mentally incompetent following evaluation by a shrink. It's actually a rather complex problem with valid arguments from several viewpoints.

Might make an interesting Jetblast thread.

ExXB
9th Jan 2017, 12:25
West hawk, agree but no doubt the NRA, et al, will prevail.

Barcli
9th Jan 2017, 16:06
So what happens in the Uk ?
Suppose your going on a Deer hunting shoot in Scotland , say flying from Heathrow > You check in the rifle > unloaded and on the Captains Notoc > where does the ammunition go > when and where does the passenger get reunited with rifle and ammunition ? at the baggage carousel as per normal bags ?
Genuine question > must happen all the time in winter

edi_local
9th Jan 2017, 17:55
I am not familiar with the procedure in the USA, but in the UK at least the firearm and ammo will have to be kept separate when checked in. When you arrive the bag with the firearm inside would not appear on the baggage belt, but will be handed to you by an agent and signed for. Now after that has taken place then there is literally nothing that can stop someone just going off an loading the gun in the toilet and then doing what this guy did in FLL.

I doubt there really is any way other than say banning firearms from commercial flights, but then there is nothing to stop someone just entering an airport and doing the same thing, ticket holder or not.

Hotel Tango
9th Jan 2017, 18:35
And if not at an airport, on a train, on a bus etc etc. There just IS NOT any 100% solution to the problem.

Airbubba
17th Jan 2017, 19:35
More on a possible motive:

Fort Lauderdale shooter says he carried out attack for ISIS

By Boris Sanchez and Kevin Conlon, CNN

Updated 2:55 PM ET, Tue January 17, 2017

Fort Lauderdale, Florida (CNN)Esteban Santiago, the man charged with killing five people at the Fort Lauderdale airport, told FBI agents he carried out the attack on behalf of ISIS, FBI special agent Michael Ferlazzo testified at Santiago's bond hearing Tuesday.

The agent did not elaborate on whether Santiago was purporting to be linked to ISIS or simply inspired by the terrorist organization.

Fort Lauderdale shooter says he carried out attack for ISIS - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/us/fort-lauderdale-shooter-isis-claim/index.html)

Lonewolf_50
18th Jan 2017, 14:54
Did this guy watch too many seasons of Homeland? :ugh:

Airbubba
22nd May 2018, 02:54
Looks like this time they are going to keep his gun and not give it back like they did in ANC.

US files plea deal in deadly Florida airport shooting

By CURT ANDERSON

May 20, 2018


FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — Federal prosecutors filed court documents Monday in which an Alaska man agreed to plead guilty to a Florida airport shooting rampage that killed five people in exchange for a life prison sentence.

The agreement says that Esteban Santiago, 28, will plead guilty to 11 of the 22 counts against him in the attack that also left six wounded. Prosecutors reached a deal with Santiago’s defense lawyers not to seek the death penalty in exchange for the guilty plea. Instead, Santiago would serve a life prison sentence plus 120 years, according to the documents, and will waive his right to appeal the sentence.

The deal is expected to be finalized Wednesday in Miami federal court before U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom.

The mentally troubled Santiago, of Anchorage, Alaska, acknowledged in the document that he flew on a one-way ticket from Alaska to Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport with a 9mm handgun in a checked weapons box in on Jan. 6, 2017. Santiago loaded the gun in a bathroom and came out firing, emptying two ammunition clips before lying on the floor and surrendering to police. Fifteen bullet casings were recovered.

“He recounted how he entered a stall, removed the gun from the box, loaded it, and put it in his waistband,” prosecutors wrote of Santiago’s confession to investigators. “He confessed that, after he left the men’s restroom, he shot the first people he encountered.”

Santiago, an Iraq war veteran who has been diagnosed as schizophrenic, initially told the FBI he was acting under some form of government mind control. Then, he changed his story to claim that he shot his victims in support of the Islamic State extremist group, but no ties to terrorist groups have been found.

Since his arrest, Santiago has been treated for his mental illness and his attorneys have repeatedly said he is competent to understand the legal proceedings. Prior to the shooting, he was briefly treated at an Anchorage mental institution after showing up at the local FBI office claiming to be hearing voices, then released with no restrictions on owning a gun, authorities have said.

The statement of facts filed Monday — signed by Santiago and his attorneys — lays out in detail the actions Santiago took that day, as well as a few new pieces of evidence. For instance, the document states that Santiago researched the layout of the Los Angeles International Airport three days before flying to Florida, but does not indicate why he did that or why he ultimately chose Florida. It also describes the injuries suffered by the six wounded people along with the multiple surgeries and medical procedures they have had to endure.

Before leaving for Florida, the document says that Santiago threw out some possessions, such as personal papers and clothes, which were found in a trash bin at the Anchorage motel where he was living. One piece of paper “appeared to be a checklist, which included a notation to ‘clean’ the laptop,” the document says. Yet after replacing the hard drive on his laptop, the document says it was left behind in Alaska.

Santiago also will forfeit to the U.S. government the 9mm Walther handgun using [sic] in the shooting, according to the agreement.

llondel
23rd May 2018, 21:56
Instead, Santiago would serve a life prison sentence plus 120 years, according to the documents

So they leave him in the cell until he's dead and then wait 120 years before taking the body out? No wonder they're suffering from overcrowding in prisons.

I'm sure there's a good explanation, but the reporting of US sentencing brings up all sorts of crazy scenarios.

jolihokistix
24th May 2018, 00:25
Well, I hope they allow him to work to pay for his board and lodging.

allardjd
25th May 2018, 15:33
First time poster; former non-commercial low time pilot; Florida resident.

Unlike most US States, Florida does prohibit concealed carry into an airport "...passenger terminal..." including both sterile and non-sterile areas.

Florida Statutes:
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790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.—
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(12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
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14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft;...

Florida attorney Jon Gutmacher, in his authoritative "FLORIDA FIREARMS - Law, Use & Ownership" says it more clearly...

"Last but not least, your CWL [Concealed Weapon License] does not permit you to carry anywhere inside the terminal - including the baggage area unless it is a completely separate building from the terminal"