Cathay DE FO?? [Archive]

Cpt. Underpants

7th Jan 2017, 15:03

They have a couple of thousand suitable applicants already so dont hold your breath

No, they don't.

The "quality" of the applicants is appalling. Much like ASL, they have managed to shake thousands of miscreants out of the woodwork where they've been lurking, waiting for a naive employer to legitimize their dodgy "experience".

And along comes CX....

Basil

7th Jan 2017, 16:09

Much like ASL, they have managed to shake thousands of miscreants out of the woodwork
No doubt that some of the ASL hopefuls had no chance of making it but some very experienced and capable pilots were binned.

Cpt. Underpants

7th Jan 2017, 16:25

I'd agree. However the number retained vs the ones brought to HKG (suitable for employment) was 1 in 10 or thereabouts.

Basil

7th Jan 2017, 20:42

Agreed. I believe there were some unrealistic candidates brought forward.

pfvspnf

7th Jan 2017, 22:42

What would the ideal candidate have?

1000 jet hours ? 3000? 7000 hours ?

Wide bodied experience ?
Training background ?
PIC time ?

Not quite sure what an unrealistic applicant is

Captain Dart

7th Jan 2017, 22:52

He or she should have a willingness to join at the bottom of a seniority list of over 3,200 pilots, including Second Officers. Command upgrades per year are around the mid-double digits (do the math).

The candidate would show willingness to live in the most expensive city on the planet, working for an airline that suffers a management in crisis, ever-increasing airspace congestion, and ferocious competition from a cashed-up mainland airline in its only hub. The candidate should also know that industrial relations are dreadful, and as I type the horizon is obscured by a thick brown haze of pollution. Also, the airline is in a cost-cutting/service spiral and due to a management gamble, fuel hedging losses are equivalent to three B 777 hulls annually for the next couple of years.

'Please be guided accordingly.'

DropKnee

8th Jan 2017, 03:34

The ideal candidate will have low self esteem. He will enjoy having pasty egocentric Aussies (gods gift to aviation, just ask them) berate them over non concequential issues. Such as compass lag or proper leaning technique of a piston single being operated near Ayers Rock( cause that **** is real). I would go on but it's too easy.

MENELAUS

8th Jan 2017, 04:09

It's all as your man Dart says; every last, painful sad word of it. With the added advantage that you'll be about as welcome as a pork sword at a Jewish wedding with all the s/o's you get to fly with.

geh065

8th Jan 2017, 04:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by geh065 View Post
They have a couple of thousand suitable applicants already so dont hold your breath
No, they don't.

The "quality" of the applicants is appalling. Much like ASL, they have managed to shake thousands of miscreants out of the woodwork where they've been lurking, waiting for a naive employer to legitimize their dodgy "experience".

And along comes CX....

Not what I heard.

Cpt. Underpants

8th Jan 2017, 04:57

Well, I guess that depends on who you hear it from.

Do you think, for a minute, that any one of the 3/F (mis)managers would admit failed policies, procedures and fixes? Why do you think they're trying DEFO again?

They're in job preservation mode, afraid of the messenger being shot.

wassupman

9th Jan 2017, 13:20

They have a couple of thousand suitable applicants already so dont hold your breath
Thanks for the support and optimism!

geh065

9th Jan 2017, 23:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by geh065 View Post
They have a couple of thousand suitable applicants already so dont hold your breath
Thanks for the support and optimism!

Realism .

DropKnee

10th Jan 2017, 14:09

You don't want to come here. Wanting to join this circus is the first indication to your fellow pilots that you are a idiot. Wise up and look around.

iamlistening

10th Jan 2017, 17:36

Captain Underpants,

You talk about us like we create smoking holes every time we go flying. You must be forgetting your own unremarkable history at CX. You do realize it's widely known who you are and I for one would not be spouting off and disparaging other people's abilities. Glad you're gone now and we don't need to suffer your presence any more.

McNugget

10th Jan 2017, 23:12

Wanting to join this circus is the first indication to your fellow pilots that your a idiot.

*You're

Wise up and look around, indeed.

The Visionary

11th Jan 2017, 04:07

And whom too! Anyway, spelling Nazis aside, the poor SOs are getting a real hose job in this. Two extra years in the back seat watching, off the street hires, even junior SOs, get promoted. This means higher pay, housing, whats left of it etc... This is what should send a message to anyone that wants to work and live in one of the noisiest and polluted cities in the world AND be treated like an idiot. Wait till all the DEFOs get their heads around our check and training departments, the fleet offices and that ugly dirigible, AT, our special DFO.

The Visionary

11th Jan 2017, 04:12

Oh and the command failure rate is around 75% now. Lots of it on the GL fleet.

A deputy C.P. is leaving the GL fleet. I wonder why? It couldn't be "Timmay" who sits just outside GL and continues to eff up the manuals in a significant way. Does he have a handicap sign on his back when he goes to fly?

Average Fool

11th Jan 2017, 04:18

A good place to build your time for your career airline.

That's about it.

Unless you like to spend the few precious nights of sleep you'll get fretting about what they are going to take next.

DropKnee

11th Jan 2017, 18:33

*You're

Wise up and look around, indeed.
Thanks for the correction. Did it ever occur to you that the invisible hand of spell check maybe involved? I would say anyone who joined before 2008 was offerd a very different set of toys when joining.

dilbert747

14th Jan 2017, 00:01

just had a look on ppjn states starting salary DEFO 841980 HKD$ last updated in 2008 mind you. Anyone got the current starting salary for DEFO? Rgds

Natca

14th Jan 2017, 02:22

It will be a bit less than that and you will be on hkpa. Remind you also will be on c minus scale ie no bonuses or anything else. Please stay away from cx untill this place turns around as you are just helping the race to the bottom. Cx is a place trying to bore the cheapest labor right now, they are willing to hire from any small nook around the globe just to drive down the cost of a pilot.

FR_A

14th Jan 2017, 15:33

Basic 81.292 HKD
flight pay (84 hrs) 8.129 HKD
HKPA 14.000 HKD

Trafalgar

15th Jan 2017, 15:32

Seated. Fresh popcorn at hand. :cool:

AQIS Boigu

15th Jan 2017, 15:42

Oh god

- the financial sector in HKG is everything but booming atm
- 15% stamp duty for non-residents plus 40-50% down payment required depending on the price; what sort of property do you think you need?
- nannies are cheap but international schools require the purchase of a debenture which is anywhere from 30000-100000 pounds (yes, per child). School fees are partially covered by CX.

Average Fool

15th Jan 2017, 23:37

Get the most enjoyable day job you can find and leave the money making up to your wife.

It's not worth it.

cxorcist

16th Jan 2017, 00:21

OMG, coming to HK for CX would be one of the worst decisions of your life, and it may well cost you your marriage. Seriously, pass! Flying WBs is nothing special. The money for NJers is no longer good. You will be chucking gear for Chinese cadet CNs for the better part of two decades. You WILL regret it...

CowardlyPilot

16th Jan 2017, 00:36

With regards to the pay question. It totally depends on your fleet.

747 - DEFO - First year 95000-96000HKD per month before tax
777 - DEFO - First year 120000-150000HKD per month before tax
A330 - DEFO - 100k per month and you won't have time to spend a dollar cause you'll be working so much.

Good education and medical available for family.

Housing is terribly expensive. Double to Triple what you pay in US/Can or any western place :)

Zapp_Brannigan

16th Jan 2017, 05:25

15% special stamp duty if not a permanent ID holder.
15% buyer's stamp duty unless it's your first property AND you're a permanent ID holder.

=30% stamp duty

Unreasonable to buy any property within your first seven years in HK.

Trafalgar

16th Jan 2017, 05:56

I need more popcorn....:rolleyes:

jetstreamrider

16th Jan 2017, 06:22

if you love HK...save it for your holidays!! You will think rather differently if you live here...especially with children! Of course if you don't mind sitting with grumpy SOs that sneer at you as soon as look at you..come and enjoy the circus!!

Zapp_Brannigan

16th Jan 2017, 08:08

If you like HK so much, then yes, CX and KA are prety much the best jobs out there.
I think a corporate jets company offers an even better salary and less work, but I don't know which one.

Just think about the next step though. Kids? Next job eventually? Retirement?

What about Vietnam? Less money but more savings. Bigger house, better lifestyle. But not as modern as HK of course.

kesskidi

16th Jan 2017, 16:31

just curious : how many hours a month do you guys average/mth or how many days off is the norm per mth ?
thx

clear.right

17th Jan 2017, 04:22

747 - DEFO - First year 95000-96000HKD per month before tax
777 - DEFO - First year 120000-150000HKD per month before tax
A330 - DEFO - 100k per month and you won't have time to spend a dollar cause you'll be working so much.

I'm gonna quote the incoming president of the US of A.... "Wrong"

gearupmaxpower

17th Jan 2017, 05:16

Not sure where you got your salary figures from, but there is a common jet salary. I.e. Your salary is not determined by your aircraft type. It is the same across the board. Some flying pay may make the actual rates different, depending on type flown. At the moment 777 crew are generally flying more and gettting overtime. Your quoted rates seem to be pretty high - Captains' rates in some cases.

The 14k allowance? Isn't it still 10k? That goes nowhere, whether single or (especially) if married with kids.

The stamp duty of 30% just kills any thought of buying other than a shoebox. Unless you're well off and happy to throw your money away. You really need to look at the future.

Any allowances you may get (pilots allowance, education etc) are fully taxed and only ever cover a proportion of the basic education fees if you get any. There are many extra and hidden costs. Getting school places can be a real deal breaker.

Do your homework and come over with your eyes wide open. Don't say you weren't warned.

AB335

17th Jan 2017, 06:36

14k allowance for FOs, 10k for SOs, 36k for senior CNs however your command won't come for 12 years. None of the numbers are indexed to inflation rate or any annual increment.

On top of that, you will be stuck at the bottom of FO seniority list until all the SOs are promoted, there are about 500 of them waiting for their upgrade. If you're "luckily" enough to get onto the bus then expect tons of regional flying through the night for few years before being put on the 350 longhull ops

AQIS Boigu

17th Jan 2017, 11:19

Yes, everybody gets the same base salary but I would say (without checking them) these figures are incl. HDP and potential over time

777 - huge overtime (ATM)
330 - around 75hrs but should improve to get the rostered 84hrs in the near future
747 - barely hitting 50hrs due to lots of pxing and spending days in ANC

Avinthenews

17th Jan 2017, 15:27

Why do jumbo guys keep turning up for work, 50hrs and all your time off in a foreign country, must have no family life. Good breeding for retiring into the simulator :ugh:

wassupman

18th Jan 2017, 09:47

Thank you!

TOFFAIR

19th Jan 2017, 13:14

A320CaptDav

29th Jan 2017, 22:27

Steve the Pirate

29th Jan 2017, 22:42

Hello,

Can anybody give a clear idea of how a new joinees roster would be for the A330 fleet.
1.Hours
2.Avg days off
3.destinations
4.layover duration
5.night turns
6.Is it a seniority based roster system?
7.Is the 330/350 one fleet?

Any other info would be appreciated

1. 84.01 credit hours
2. 10
3. Regional, India, Middle East and Australia
4. Variable, mainly minimum rest regionally and 18-30 hours for more distant ports
5. Yes but not many
6. What's a seniority based roster system?
7. Yes

If you haven't visited FH before, beware.

STP

AQIS Boigu

29th Jan 2017, 23:58

3. For the first couple of years it wil be Asia, India and Perth. Only once you are relief qualified (=cruise captain) you can get 3 man flights to the ME and Australia.

By then you will also have plenty of time to check out Dubai and see how these 380 guys are enjoying their 15-17 days off a month and their 4 BR villas whilst you will be in a shoebox.

Further you will still be doing split duties since the CX Windows98 rostering system can't figure out how to get you an efficient 330 roster.

Luggage

30th Jan 2017, 01:39

So guys after reading all of this it is definitely food for thought. I have been invited to an interview coming up in either March or April.

I currently fly the Embraer 175 for probably the best regional airline in the USA. Im not American, my family all live in Australia.

Im happy here but the work visa Im on makes it difficult to progress to the majors or even LCC like JetBlue etc.

I want to be close to family in Australia or even live there and commute to a CX job if its worth it. I also have a couple other interview offers in Asia, one with HKA.

Basically is there any light at the end of the tunnel with regards to the management/pilot and contract issues being sorted out in the near future/

My wife is also preganant with our first child so this is a pretty big decision for me. I am doing research reading all forums and articles online as I dont want to regret my decision but at the same time if you dont take a chance you will never know.

I do love HK, I know how expensive it is, pollution etc. Does anybody see progress or improvements happening within the next 12 months as I understand CX really is at a crossroads at the moment as to whether they survive due to severly incompetant management decisions.

They used to be the best and heres hoping they are trying to get back there.:ok:

Natca

30th Jan 2017, 01:46

No light at the end of the tunnel, republic is better than cx honestly

AQIS Boigu

30th Jan 2017, 02:12

Luggage,

I do love HK

Rule number 1 - Nobody loves HK!!!

Some people enjoy it, some tolerate it and some hate it.

How about Qantas/ANZ?

Several CX SOs, FOs and even one Captain have recently joined or are about to join either of these two.

Luggage

30th Jan 2017, 15:10

I have submitted applications to Qantas and JetStar but no response as of yet so lets see what happens.

If I got one of those two with a Brisbane base it would be perfect for me and I would definitely grab it.

I believe things in Australia may start to pick up now regarding hiring into the airlines again. That would definitely be my preferred option.

The airline Im with now treats us very well and we certainly dont have the complaints of the CX and KA guys.

However from a money point of view and with a baby on the way Im losing out a bit so need to get a better paying job, trick is to get good QOL, perks and treatment as well.

I guess there is no harm going to the interview and will take it from there.

Anybody care to comment on the sim check, how tough, what you do and possibly the technical questions/face to face interview.:ok:

Natca

30th Jan 2017, 15:30

Well one out of ten seems to be the pass rate for the sim interview right now if not worse. Seriously.

Gnadenburg

30th Jan 2017, 15:49

If I got one of those two with a Brisbane base it would be perfect for me and I would definitely grab it.

South Lantau has better restaurants than Brisbane if you're into fine dining. :8

Luggage

30th Jan 2017, 18:27

Yes I do like fine dining but not top of the agenda at present. A good BBQ and a bottle of red will suffice.

More interested in quality of life and being close to my family again. QF and JQ pay well enough and would allow me to go home, cant really ask for more than that.

I always admired CX as they were the best and I sincerely hope they get back there but by the sounds of it that will not happen anytime soon.

cxorcist

30th Jan 2017, 19:26

Luggage,

Sounds like you will be packing your bags. If so, good luck. You certainly are not alone. I think CX is losing many more pilots than it lets on.

Agree 100% with your dining analogy. Far better to be home with family and friends eating modestly.

Luggage

31st Jan 2017, 12:46

CXorcist, yep I will take the good and simple life at home any day. Just need that darn interview now.

I would be interested to know how many pilots CX is losing and at what point they will be reaching breaking point in terms of sort the pilot contract out or the gig is up for us.

Other airlines in the region will simply railroad CX if they dont get their act together soon.

broadband circuit

31st Jan 2017, 13:16

Other airlines in the region will simply railroad CX if they dont get their act together soon.

You're use of the future tense is somewhat inaccurate

Trafalgar

31st Jan 2017, 13:50

Broadband. Spot on. Horse:bolted:barn door

Cool banana

31st Jan 2017, 17:43

Well one out of ten seems to be the pass rate for the sim interview right now if not worse. Seriously.

A very experienced mate of mine who has plenty of international experience on Airbus based in Asia put in an application with CX/ANZ/QF at the same time. He now has an upcoming interview with both ANZ and Qantas, but as you see below the latest standard response from CX, which he updated every month.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise with CX incompetents, especially with all the debacle with fuel hedging, command upgrades times, pollution etc he now putting his energy into going back down under. :ok:

He was mystified if Cathay has all these highly experienced applicants but only 1 in 10 can pass the simulator, wow I guess 7500tt 4600 Bus time isn't experienced enough !! :ugh:

Dear Xx. Xxx Xxxxxx,

This is to acknowledged receipt of your e-mail.

At this time, due to the large number of applicants on our database, we cannot guarantee of any forthcoming invitation.

Kindly note that as the applicant it is your responsibility to keep your application updated and we recommend that you update your information every six months, or when there are significant changes to your personal or professional details.

To update your application; login to your account using the Personal Reference Number (PRN) & Password previously provided, amend the necessary fields and ensure that the information is saved by clicking the "submit update" button.

Thank you for your continued interest in Cathay Pacific Airways.

Yours sincerely,
Flight Crew Recruitment Group

crwkunt roll

1st Feb 2017, 00:45

You're use of the future tense is somewhat inaccurate
Your funny.

Shep69

1st Feb 2017, 01:40

Spot on, Dan.

Somewhere along the way control and trying to keep people 'in line' -- with whatever strange sense of perspective they may have on what that is -- became much more important than actually making money.

Luggage

1st Feb 2017, 18:58

So after getting advice on this forum and saying my preference would be QF or JQ back in Australia but forever waiting on a call for an interview, some kind lady from JQ sent me the email last night inviting me to a JQ interview.

I have to admit after reading about the CX issues going to JQ is by far my first choice on getting back home to be close to family again. Thats what CX always was about for me, getting close to home in Australia.

Just got to not stuff up the JQ interview now over the next couple of months. Makes one wonder though how many guys will leave CX, KA and HKA to go elsewhere in Australia, Singapore etc.

The market seems to be opening up and even Europe is getting better. Im in the US and if you have a pilots licence and can tie your shoe laces you have won the lottery, literally!!!

I still have the CX interview as a back up so will see but hopefully wont need it now.

Luggage:ok:

paidinhours

25th Feb 2017, 19:02

So I've been trying to move to Hong Kong for a while now for family reasons. CX had been my preference. I turned down an interview for SO a few years ago as my circumstances made it impossible to accept the salary and live in HK.

I applied for direct FO last Summer but only heard back recently about getting an interview. While I was waiting I decided to explore other options in HK and now it seems there's a possible open door for me to go to HKA as a captain. I know overall conditions are better in CX than HKA. However, reading PPRuNe makes it difficult to get a feeling about what it would be like for me moving forward.

I'm in my early 30's with a local wife and a few young children. I'm looking for long term stability, good community and preferably not to be treated as a scab because I join as a direct entry pilot. Any suggestions about which role may be a better fit for me would be appreciated.

Natca

25th Feb 2017, 21:17

Go to hka and dont look back. Cx has lost several senior fos to hka as fos recently. Their package is similar to ours but that coompany has a future and is growing unlike the green giant.

GMEDX

25th Feb 2017, 23:37

Have you considered Cathay Dragon? Same conditions and staff travel as CX but currently with the chance of command within a year.

paidinhours

25th Feb 2017, 23:57

Have you considered Cathay Dragon? Same conditions and staff travel as CX but currently with the chance of command within a year.

I have considered it. However, I've spent a lot of time in mainland China. From instructing Chinese cadets to domestic 320 ops. My feeling currently is that I've got enough Mainland adventures to last a lifetime. It's my understanding that Dragon operates mainly into China. As much as I like China, I've found flying inside mainland China to be tedious. For a long term career I think I would benefit from a little more variation. That's just my personal preference. I am aware of Dragon and I do think it's an excellent option for the right people.