Carol Voderman petition

[Fred Tesson]

Hi there,

Link below to a petition that some of you may like to sign.

Fred Tesson

https://www.change.org/p/give-britain-s-last-surviving-dambuster-hero-a-knighthood/sign?utm_source=action_alert_sign&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=695309&alert_id=npxxwEhKyJ_fZFqSEQL0ddXgHJNc3tH%2FtQb1Ise28BqulHAoq vR8G4%3D

[oldchina]

Did anyone ask Johnny what he thinks?


If I were a 95 year-old hero the last thing I'd be bothered about is getting a knighthood.

[DaveReidUK]

Did anyone ask Johnny what he thinks?

If I were a 95 year-old hero the last thing I'd be bothered about is getting a knighthood.

On the other hand, a knighthood should never be given to anyone who actually wants one. :O

[Old-Duffer]

As a bad tempered so and so but someway short of 95, my take on this would be that I was one of the few survivors of a war where only 6600 DFMs were awarded. What need would I have with an order knighthood which seem to be so liberally sprinkled these days. Furthermore, would I wish to receive the honour as a result of some sort of petition by people who know little about the real me, some of whom will probably put their name to anything.

I'd settle for a flight in the BBMF Lancaster, lunch in the RAF Club and a quiet visit across the road to pay my respects at the Bomber Command Memorial (if Ms Vorderman would escort me, so much the better!!).

Old Duffer

[BCAR Section L]

instead of you all spouting on about what you think why dont you support the petition and let him refuse it if he so wishes

[Old-Duffer]

BCAR Section L,

Because, Sir, I don't support the petition.

Old Duffer

[Tiger_mate]

It may be a controversial opinion but Sqn Ldr Johnson received a DFM for his participation in the Dams raid – had he been commissioned at the time, I dare say it would have been a DFC; such is the politics of the military. The cynic in me believes the present campaign to see him Knighted, has more to do with retaining Carol Vordermans profile after her (well paid) jaunt in the Australian jungle, at a time when she is fundraising for a round-the-world solo flight. If every Serviceman/woman deserving of recognition received a Knighthood; there would be no value in the title. I am the first to agree that the honours system is difficult to comprehend at times, but JJ has not embarked on a career in Charity fundraising whereas he has fully exploited his ‘war stories’.
I fear for what the inevitable stress of this debacle may impose on the individual concerned.

[parabellum]

Tiger Mate - Not 100% certain about this but I believe, at that time, it was the common policy, officers got crosses, DFC, GC, DSC etc. and other ranks got medals, DFM, GM, DSM etc. the same award criteria though. At the time of the award Sqn Ldr Johnson was possibly a SNCO or WO? Tankertrashnav will know if I am talking tosh or not!

John Major changed all that, now, regardless of rank, everyone gets a cross.

[wub]

Except for those awarded a British Empire Medal

[greybeard]

Cynic I may be, BUT why are the "pushers" of all this hanging on to someone else's past "ticket" of fame.

Leave the very accomplished old fellow alone fer christ's sake!!!

He did a great service in another time and place which will be remembered by those who actually care, of which there are regrettably few these days.

:ok:

[Bill Macgillivray]

Greybeard,

How right you are! A hero in his own (and everyone else's right) who does not, in anyway, need a modern (and, dare I say, denigrated!) award. He is remembered!!

Bill.

[noflynomore]

While we're on the subject of devaluing things could I point out the mistake of over-using the word "hero" in this context too.

A "hero" is someone who does something exceptional above and beyond the expectation of his duty usually involving great courage and/or danger and without regard to his own safety. This is a very specific definition and cannot, and should not be used to describe people who merely did their duty. It also cannot be automatically applied to someone simply because they were wounded or died.

afaik the chap involved did nothing outstandingly remarkable during the operation - "just" his duty, as did every other man-jack present so unless this appellation is for another incident we shouldn't, with all respect, refer to him or any other person who simply did their duty as a "hero".

This especially applies to the hideously misnamed charity that is so popular at present. We should not dilute such an important term by automatically and unthinkingly applying it to ordinary serving personnel who just did their job. That is neither what a "hero" is, nor what "hero" means.

[XV490]

From what I've heard, Mr Johnson may well merit a gong for his charity work.
But to be decorated for outliving all who flew on the dams raid disrespects the others, especially the first 53 to die who never made it back to Scampton.

[DaveReidUK]

But to be decorated for outliving all who flew on the dams raid disrespects the others, especially the first 53 to die who never made it back to Scampton.

Nobody over 30 is allowed to use "disrespect" as a verb. :O

[ian16th]

Parabellum
Tiger Mate - Not 100% certain about this but I believe, at that time, it was the common policy, officers got crosses, DFC, GC, DSC etc. and other ranks got medals, DFM, GM, DSM etc. the same award criteria though. At the time of the award Sqn Ldr Johnson was possibly a SNCO or WO? Tankertrashnav will know if I am talking tosh or not!

John Major changed all that, now, regardless of rank, everyone gets a cross. I dunno why TTN is so slow, but I'll point out one error.

The GC and GM are two decorations that can/could be awarded to commissioned and none commissioned alike.

The GC is on a par with the VC, for gallantry not in the face of an enemy, while the GM is a lower level of award.

[XV490]

Nobody over 30 is allowed to use "disrespect" as a verb. :O

Dave – You're quite right, sir. How about "dishonours"?

[DaveReidUK]

Dave – You're quite right, sir. How about "dishonours"?

Much better. :O

And I agree 100% with your sentiment that it would be invidious to make an award purely based on longevity.

[76fan]

When one looks at who actually gets these awards these days I would have much more respect for those who decline them .... now a list of those names would be interesting .....

[Old-Duffer]

Re Post 15. IIRC, Trooper Finney (?) Life Guards/B&R received a George Cross after being attacked by US aircraft; the basis being he couldn't have a VC 'cause the US was on our side.

This led to the suggestion that in a war, the US forces should be classed as 'Honorary Enemy'.

O D

[MSF]

Isn't that why they changed from USAAF to Usually Shoots At Friendlies?