Qantas' broken and overworked A380 fleet

[1a sound asleep]

Theres no spare planes and they are worked hard without a huge amount of TLC. Early production serial numbers that still give troubles.

Qantas passengers bound for Sydney stranded in Dubai on New Year's Eve (http://www.smh.com.au/national/qantas-passengers-bound-for-sydney-stranded-in-dubai-on-new-years-eve-20161231-gtk7b5.html)

A technical problem has grounded the A380 QF2 at Dubai International Airport overnight, and rolling delays mean there is little chance travellers will make it to Sydney before 2017.

Can we trade them in for good used samples from EK? :sad:

[LostProperty]

I know zilch about running an airline but how realistic would it be today for a middle ranking airline like Qantas to have spare aircraft sitting around waiting for a breakdown? If anyone had a spare 380 I'd have thought it might be EK at their home port given that they own most of the type. Qantas might have had to charter it but that could have been a price worth paying.

[Logohu]

Heavy fog at both Dubai and LHR the last 24 hours probably isn't helping with at least one QF A380 now sitting in DWC after diverting. As a result EK's schedules are all a bit upside down too.
T'is the season etc...!!

[Ngineer]

Worlds best practice. :ugh:

[unobtanium]

I'd like to be home on New Years Eve, oh yes I'd like to fly halfway around the world and arrive just in time.

[p.j.m]

how realistic would it be today for a middle ranking airline like Qantas to have spare aircraft sitting around waiting for a breakdown?

They should have something, doesn't have to be an A380. Its criminal they have stranded people on the other side of the world, yet again.

You can bet your bottom dollar they would have been home long ago, if Alan Joyce was a passenger. Lets see them film this one in their next "Not" Ready For Takeoff" episode.

How hard would it be to get "some" passengers onto other competitors flights, even if not direct flights, while another aircraft of some description was dispatched to Dubai to take the remainder home, again, even if they needed to stop over somewhere along the way to fill up, or whatever.

[p.j.m]

Theres no spare planes and they are worked hard without a huge amount of TLC. Early production serial numbers that still give troubles.


Not only the A380's, every night I hear QF25 fly overhead on its way to Japan, you can tell when the older B747's are being used, because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine.

Clearly they need more and better maintenance.

[p.j.m]

You can bet your bottom dollar they would have been home long ago, if Alan Joyce was a passenger.
oh, what a surprise! I wonder if it was the next available codeshare EK flight, 40 minutes later than everyone elses cancelled QF flight?

Several passengers have told Fairfax Media that Mr Joyce was a passenger on the first of two Qantas flights to experience lengthy delays in Dubai while travelling from London to Sydney.

While hundreds of passengers remain stranded in Dubai for New Year's Eve, it is understood Mr Joyce flew out along with other travellers who were transferred onto another Qantas flight to Sydney.Qantas passengers bound for Sydney stranded in Dubai on New Year's Eve (http://www.smh.com.au/national/qantas-passengers-bound-for-sydney-stranded-in-dubai-on-new-years-eve-20161231-gtk7b5.html)

[porch monkey]

"because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine."


Really?? Seriously.........

[vhtae]

QF10 is delayed arriving into Melbourne 2:35am (01/01) delaying QF9 back to Dubai-London to 5am

[JamieMaree]

Welcome to running an airline!

[donpizmeov]

Haven't been any available seats on an EK aircraft to oz for weeks. That time of year when staff travel sucks and a tech delay hurts.

[Chris2303]

And nothing on anyone else either.

[Ida down]

"because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine."


Really?? Seriously.........Jaassus mate, they all whine.They always have.

[Chris2303]

So what is wrong with the airplane(s) in DXB?

(Apart from the fact that they are A380s) :-)

[roundsounds]

Not only the A380's, every night I hear QF25 fly overhead on its way to Japan, you can tell when the older B747's are being used, because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine.

Clearly they need more and better maintenance.
They'd be the Rolls Royce powered 744s you hear with the whine, the GE powered 744ERs don't have that whine.

[BleedingAir]

Not only the A380's, every night I hear QF25 fly overhead on its way to Japan, you can tell when the older B747's are being used, because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine.

Clearly they need more and better maintenance.

Please tell me this is a subtle joke.

[Ertimus]

What is wrong with the passengers of today?? Suck it up and enjoy the forced stopover in Dubai ( definitely not my favorite place in the world :eek::eek:) and remember it was only a few years ago when very few international aircraft ran on time. The biggest whining you hear these days isn't from the RB211's but the over pampered travelling public. Some of the most memorable times my wife and I have spent was with fellow stranded flyers in hotels waiting for the aircraft to be repaired and everything except the alcohol being paid for by the airline.:D:D

[planeloader]

I agree, years ago you would have only got a meal voucher, now airlines will bend over backwards for passengers. I wouldn't mind spending New years eve in a 1st class hotel at the airlines expense.

[porch monkey]

Ida down, hope your attention to detail is a bit better now you're not pissed. I quoted another poster. Obviously the sarcasm of my post was lost on you.

[Ngineer]

So what is wrong with the airplane(s) in DXB?


Wiring issues with the fuel sys from what I hear. Some of you guys are blissfully unaware that you are flying around in one of the most avionic advanced passenger aircraft, for an airline that is loathed to train any experienced Avionic engineers. CASA have also had a hand in this by removing the necessity under new law.


So when these wiring (or other complex) defects start to appear on an ageing fleet, the chances of a quick effective rectification and capture become slim. Instead it will just be the standard 'reset carried out', or 'fim proc c/out - nil faults', until the aircraft gets stuck somewhere. Here is a business case in itself to train suitable qualified & experienced staff, but not with this current management team. Going forward we will be increasingly dependant on an overseas MRO with a different operating model to clean up our fleet issues as they become stranded OS.


We just watch it all unfold and think to ourselves "told you so".


One day things will change when a big broom is swept through the place.

[Chris2303]

Well that won't be an MEL item...... :-)

No wonder the SMH said this morning that Airbus were being consulted.

[BogeyBoy]

AJ must have a good staff travel onload priority to make it out of there before the full fare pax.:confused::=

[SRM]

NG, I agree from what I have seen so far with the introduction of the B1 / B2 system , every time a complicated wiring repair has to be carried out it usually falls back on the guys that have done some time in the wiring shop.

[Qanchor]

AJ must have a good staff travel onload priority to make it out of there before the full fare pax.

Not just the boss. I, (tech crew, 27 yrs service), got trumped recently by an office wonk who joined the co. 15 mins ago (sic). Seems they're offering crap money to shiny bums but attracting them with superior staff travel privileges.

[Jc31]

Ajs onload priority is 1. His upgrade priority is also 1

[Fris B. Fairing]

AJ must have a good staff travel onload priority to make it out of there before the full fare pax

There used to be a staff travel category of "MUSTGO".

Entirely appropriate. He must go.

[hotnhigh]

It's like going to the dentist for a check up. Preventative maintenance.
Some people believe you don't need to go to the dentist for that work and hence forth, the appearance and functioning of that piece of equipment eventually becomes a train wreck.
Dentistry on demand I think it's called.
Unfortunately however, with such a system, inevitably major root canal work is the end result and the false economy and argument that it's the better way seems to be a ridiculous notion.
But I guess if you earn $33000 per day, you can jump the queue and sit in any dental recliner chair you want, whilst you wait for the rectification to be complete.

[NSEU]

The more modern ones don't have the whine.


The wining is usually coming from the folks stuck on the ground that have this misguided belief that all aircraft should be immune to the laws of physics (and never break down).

Even if you throw all available resources into maintenance (as airlines like Japan Airlines do/used to do) and start to go broke in the process, you will still see failures (not unusual... as those aircraft have a million parts to break in them).

What I did notice over my years in the industry was that the scary airlines did seem to get their aircraft out on time, just as often as the good ones, because they were willing to fly their aircraft with masses of unserviceabilities (and their interpretation of Dispatch Deviation Guides was less than perfect). Qantas engineers work on a number of different airlines and they've grounded quite a few foreign operators' aircraft that the operators thought were ok to fly (and weren't).

[unobtanium]

What I did notice over my years in the industry was that the scary airlines did seem to get their aircraft out on time, just as often as the good ones, because they were willing to fly their aircraft with masses of unserviceabilities (and their interpretation of Dispatch Deviation Guides was less than perfect). Qantas engineers work on a number of different airlines and they've grounded quite a few foreign operators' aircraft that the operators thought were ok to fly (and weren't).

Unfortunately, in some parts of the world this could be viewed as "poor performance", and such an engineer may find himself out of work if he carries on making the "incorrect" decisions.

[cattletruck]

There's a little rumour that has just arrived with the much delayed flight that Alan Joyce was keen to be at the Sydney New Years Eve fireworks display.

I wonder if he ate an entire block of Cadbury Dairy Milk Chocolate the next day.

[chuboy]

I mean, if you were the CEO of an airline wouldn't you want to be able to get a seat on one of your aircraft? It's a privilege that comes with the responsibility of keeping how many thousand people in a job? :rolleyes:

I guess he could have given his seat up and instructed the check in agents to fairly select just one person from the list of 400 delayed passengers to take his place.

Or maybe they could follow Ryanair's lead and have a bizjet painted in Qantas colours at his beck and call so he doesn't have to use revenue seats at all?

[Fliegenmong]

I wonder if he ate an entire block of Cadbury Dairy Milk Chocolate the next day.


?????

[QuarterInchSocket]

"His" airline? Get real!

He SHOULD not have a seat to begin with and wait in line with all the others on staff travel; those folks paying for his lavish lifestyle SHOULD have the highest of all priority, in all cases, excepting defined exceptional circumstances.

Joyce is nothing more than a recipient of the spoils earnt by many hard working people. He is not singularly responsible for its success, either.

Should his position, or any other like it, allow priority passage over the common man paying his "less than A380 Captain's" wage?

In my view, an emphatic no!

[PoppaJo]

How about sending some A330s on rescue flights? Too busy on those 3hr Perth missions hey?

[blow.n.gasket]

Isn't the CEO one of the category's of staff allowed to travel on the flight deck?
Then why the hell didn't he lead by example and do that rather than displace commercial passengers.
The very people who cough up some $14 million bucks a year to pay his remuneration.
This leads into another question.
How many $ millions of bucks are Year are spent on Bain & Co?
Why is this exorbitant amount spent on consultants to make business decisions when Qantas already has one of the highest paid executive airline management teams in the world.
OINK OINK , pigs at a trough!

PS FLIEGENMONG very cryptic, reference the chocolate bar.
Anything to do with brown hankies or bandannas in the back pocket?

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Other than a "we understand" from a newspaper, can anyone verify that Joyce was actually there?
He always seems to be there, and do this, when S@&$ fight happens. Seems a bit too convienient to me. Anyway, pitchforks in hand, lets go⛏

[QuarterInchSocket]

No, not verified as far as I'm aware. A reminder that we're on a rumour network, so never a good idea to put too much in the basket...

[p.j.m]

On saying that though the senior management types see it below them to do such a thing.

Offered the jumpseat twice to executive types once on a horror day huge delays across all airlines, both times they refused, blocking a seat for a full fare paying passenger.

Yeah, I'm sure Joyce jumped at the chance to give up the comfort of a first class cabin, with entertainment and a lie flat bed, ability to get up whenever he likes, cabin staff oncall, etc, for a jump seat in a noisy cabin, with no way to relax.

[PPRuNeUser0184]

Exactly. By the same logic, anyone tech crew member on duty travel in first or business class should give up their seat so an economy Pax can upgrade.

I don't think so

[blow.n.gasket]

Me thinks your logic is a wee bit warped there NZKiwi, an almost angelic name to boot, I might add.
Duty travel tech crew are booked firm, no travelling public displaced!
Another thing ,no tech crew , no go , which is the only reason tech crew would displace paying passengers otherwise Alan and every other passenger would miss their party.
Plus it's contractually agreed upon, for techies to be up the pointy end vieing against all the management wunderkinds and fatigue issues might have something to do with the whole enchilada for tech crew as well.

[Ken Borough]

Duty travel tech crew are booked firm, no travelling public displaced!

*cough*. *cough*

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

If crew are "must go" for operational requirements, I don't see a problem. Otherwise more people with be disrupted.
Pilots and cabin crew keep QF operating. If they are booked duty travel and are "must go" (I'm sure people here can figure out what that means), then they SHOULD displace paying passengers, that's obvious. Management are never "must go". They are important, but are not operationally important.
However, again, nobody has verified that AJ was there. I know for a fact he has stayed behind in the past to allow Passengers to get home. Just seems too convenient for the lynch mob.

[the rim]

Hi all....have not posted for years but got on here to see what was happening to the A380 gone AOG......as far as I remember AJ payed full price for his seat part of his deal as CEO...don't know if that is still correct ...I don't like him like the rest of people on here for what he has done to this airline but as the CEO and only taking one seat ...does it make that much difference.....on a side note I bumped him to y-class years ago when I was on duty travel and he was CEO of Jetstar....he was not happy.....but I was and he still remembered it when I meet him at a few QF meetings ...all I said to him was ...."you should have a better union looking after you"...funny at the time

[PPRuNeUser0184]

He is the CEO of the airline. It's a ridiculous statement to say that he should go sit in the back. And even if he did, what difference would it make?

Seriously people, get real.

[TBM-Legend]

Don't forget Australia is built on the "tall poppy syndrome"...

[Fris B. Fairing]

Let's not forget that this guy has form when it comes to inconveniencing his customers. He shut down the entire airline. Remember that?

Not even Australia's enemies managed to do that during WWII.

[rjtjrt]

Whilst it is wrong to equate the 2, I see someone has knicknamed AJ as "Captain Concordia".

[fearcampaign]

I remember paxing home on duty travel after a very long day of multi sector domestic flying.
The gate agent asked if I'd accept the jump seat so they could upgrade someone.
Being a two hour sector BNE/MEL and having to use the uncomfortable 737 jump seat I politely declined.
She snarled at me for not being a team player and told me many pilots offer up their duty travel seat in the cabin.
If it's ok for the CEO to take a seat when things go bad then the example has been set. I'm not suggesting The CEO has done anything wrong either.
He may have been entitled to a seat just as our staff are whilst "on duty".
If I'm ever asked again I'll think, what would Alan do now?

[Ken Borough]

He shut down the entire airline.

What has this to do with the A380 fleet utilisation? And what AJ did was what any half-decent CEO would have done given the evidence that was put before him. Qantas, as a result of wildcat industrial action, was at the time notoriously unreliable to the extent that forward bookings had fallen over a cliff. Should he have acquiesced or taken action to bring the nonsense to an end? I, and many others, think he did the right thing.

Back to the topic.....

[V-Jet]

What has this to do with the A380 fleet utilisation? And what AJ did was what any half-decent CEO would have done given the evidence that was put before him. Qantas, as a result of wildcat industrial action, was at the time notoriously unreliable to the extent that forward bookings had fallen over a cliff. Should he have acquiesced or taken action to bring the nonsense to an end? I, and many others, think he did the right thing.

Back to the topic.....


What AJ did was panic, the man has the managerial skills of an household pot plant. He shouldn't be in charge of anything more complex than a garage door opener as he is demonstrably incompetent. His skill lies in extracting himself a good deal - and in that, he's pretty good. The airline is but a shadow of its former self and is depressing to know. But clearly you don't understand or you wouldn't hold an incompetent in such high regard. On your 'Back to the topic' comment, you will find (sooner or later) that all roads do indeed lead to Rome. In AJ's exalted office there would have been a glass box with a fiddle inside. The glass box has long been broken, such is the frequency of its use.

[Going Boeing]

Ken, your comments do not reflect the facts at the time - it was an organised PR exercise to show the public that AJ was tough and decisive.

By management's own figures, the shutdown cost $190M (I believe that it was much more) and a further $60M was spent on subsequent legal expenses. The real cost was the extreme damage that was done to hundreds of thousand loyal Qantas passengers.

The lengths that Joyce went to to prevent the book about this dreadful act from being published is indicative of how deceitful he was to the public and shareholders. The shareholders should be outraged about the damage done and the reduction in share values.

[Bleve]

The shareholders should be outraged about the damage done and the reduction in share values.

Unfortunately majority ownership is in the hands of 3 or 4 large investment funds. Their QF shares are but a small part of their investment portfolios, so a depressed QF share price has minimal impact to them. Besides, the fund managers are (or are hoping to be) on the same corporate / board / director / CEO gravy train, so they are hardly going to rock the boat. :sad:

[t_cas]

"Gravy train"

Where is the "agree" button?

[AerialPerspective]

Not only the A380's, every night I hear QF25 fly overhead on its way to Japan, you can tell when the older B747's are being used, because they "whine" like they are struggling to keep running. The more modern ones don't have the whine.

Clearly they need more and better maintenance.
Oh please!!! Whining is a characteristic of the engine, RR are not whiny but GE are excessively whiny. It's nothing to do with maintenance. I'd put my money on QF 747-400s still being amongst the most well looked after and best maintained in the world. The A380 issues are because it is a CRAP aircraft as all Airbus product is... I for one would be happier to see Qantas do something innovative-ish and dump the 12 A380s and replace them with 777-10 or 747-8i.

[AerialPerspective]

They'd be the Rolls Royce powered 744s you hear with the whine, the GE powered 744ERs don't have that whine.
Other way around I think you'll find... GEs have always done that. I used to prefer to fly Ansett wherever possible over TAA in the old days because I couldn't abide the whiny sound of the A300, it was like a constant droning while especially on decent and approach. DC-10s which mainly had GE CF6 also had that sound.

[AerialPerspective]

There used to be a staff travel category of "MUSTGO".

Entirely appropriate. He must go.
There was at other airlines, it was an IATA code but for Qantas it was originally BM1P/P100 or MM1P/P100 when they had alpha numerics (e.g. Crew who were positioning were Postive Space, e.g. PS5P/P185, etc. and High Priority LSL trip CS, etc. I can't remember all the codes but it was something like, in descending order MM/BM, FS, PS, CS, AD, SA and then they went to numerics... Senior Mgmt/CEO/Board Member when on urgent business (read, always)... 1, Operational Duty Travel something like 11 through 18, starting with Tech Crew and flowing through to Cabin but actually useable by Ground Staff as well... many thought that was a Crew code but it was actually "Positioning to effect the operation of an aircraft". I had one once, a new process was required to be trained to staff at a certain location to do with Loadsheet production, we were given an Op Duty Tvl category because if we had not been there and trained the personnel, the aeroplane may not have operated. Following on from that (they've probably changed now) was 19 (Commercial Upgrade, usually due prev. mishandled or similar), 20-35 various levels of semi-firm travel and the higher class of e.g. 30 year LSL trip or something then Space available from about 45 through to 77 - e.g. 77Y/Y4000/YY (where YY is other airline code). From memory the first number is the onload priority, then the bookable class, / then maximum upgradable class, then a number which defines the upgrade order but is made up of two digits indicating type of travel and year of joining. It was a very simple and effective system and even in the QUBE days, pre-Amadaeus CM DCS, the table in the system which I think was called the CPI (carrier priority index) was spot on accurate, you would need to override it at flight close to upgrade wrongly and it would be picked up. From other aspects I've seen of CM, I assume it's a lost more sophisticated now as I think if upgrades (staff aside) of commercial pax are required I think the system has a file that ranks by FF tier then and/or by pax priority, e.g. the company that is most valuable to QF and perhaps the person that signs the contracts can rocket to the top which is pretty smart business actually however this last bit I was told so it may be a capability that I haven't described properly or on the wish list but I'm pretty sure it's real. You can bet despite the outcome of the DXB delay that I bet Platinum One, Platinum and Gold didn't have to hang around.

[AerialPerspective]

"His" airline? Get real!

He SHOULD not have a seat to begin with and wait in line with all the others on staff travel; those folks paying for his lavish lifestyle SHOULD have the highest of all priority, in all cases, excepting defined exceptional circumstances.

Joyce is nothing more than a recipient of the spoils earnt by many hard working people. He is not singularly responsible for its success, either.

Should his position, or any other like it, allow priority passage over the common man paying his "less than A380 Captain's" wage?

In my view, an emphatic no!
Years ago at Ansett, Rod Eddington turned up late at the gate in SYD, traffic I think... anyway, being used to 'special treatment' given to execs the gate staff member said "Sorry Mr Eddington, the flight is closed but I'll get it open for you" and then said to her college, "...we'll need to downgrade the staffy in 3A (for example) to upgrade Mr Eddington". Rod Eddington said straight away... "Hold on, no, please don't do that, that's not fair, I was late, I knew I was late, I rushed to the gate in the hope I might be on time but I wasn't so please, DO NOT, re-open the flight and certainly do NOT displace someone who WAS here on time and just put me on the next flight to MEL, it's not THAT urgent". The gate agent said "Are you sure" to which Rod replied "Yes, I'm the ******** that turned up late so I should go on the next flight with a seat available for me". That conversation was all over the network at every airport by midday AND the response was "We really like this guy". A few years before at Qantas, a staff member was severely bullied and abused by a person claiming to be a personal friend of the Chairman (the now late Jim Leslie, at the time). This person threatened the staff member with his/her job. This got back to Jim and he issued a memo worldwide to all staff saying "Recently, blah, blah, blah, etc....... (outlining the incident). THEN: "This communication is to assure all staff worldwide that in the normal performance of their duties they have nothing to fear from any friends of the Chairman and no special treatment whatsoever, waiving of rules, special accommodations, etc. are to be made for ANYONE claiming to be so... Ladies and Gentlemen, as far as the day to running of the airline is concerned the Chairman has NO friends!!!" Additionally he asked that copies of the memo be kept at Service Desks and Sales Offices and given to any customer so claiming. Similarly, people were bowled over by this and respected him for it immensely. He was also approachable enough to be more than mildly amused when he learned that his (affectionate) 'nick name' amongst the staff was "the man with no friends"

[AerialPerspective]

Isn't the CEO one of the category's of staff allowed to travel on the flight deck?
Then why the hell didn't he lead by example and do that rather than displace commercial passengers.
The very people who cough up some $14 million bucks a year to pay his remuneration.
This leads into another question.
How many $ millions of bucks are Year are spent on Bain & Co?
Why is this exorbitant amount spent on consultants to make business decisions when Qantas already has one of the highest paid executive airline management teams in the world.
OINK OINK , pigs at a trough!

PS FLIEGENMONG very cryptic, reference the chocolate bar.
Anything to do with brown hankies or bandannas in the back pocket?
I have it on good advice that that is the ONLY reason he jumped on the earlier flight and opted to use that option to travel on the flight deck to free up a seat for a commercial pax... I could be wrong though but that's what I heard from more than one source.

[AerialPerspective]

Isn't the CEO one of the category's of staff allowed to travel on the flight deck?
Then why the hell didn't he lead by example and do that rather than displace commercial passengers.
The very people who cough up some $14 million bucks a year to pay his remuneration.
This leads into another question.
How many $ millions of bucks are Year are spent on Bain & Co?
Why is this exorbitant amount spent on consultants to make business decisions when Qantas already has one of the highest paid executive airline management teams in the world.
OINK OINK , pigs at a trough!

PS FLIEGENMONG very cryptic, reference the chocolate bar.
Anything to do with brown hankies or bandannas in the back pocket?
It's not a new phenomena, it started in the 70s. My father was a manager then and the first foray into using consultants turned out to be a disaster as the old saying goes "they borrow your watch to tell you the time and then walk away with your watch". To rebuild some semblance of unity a lot of people including my Dad were invited to a meeting to 'have it out' over the disaster. He was one of the few that stood up and the question he asked was "Considering (at that stage) we've now been in business for between 55-60 years and are largely seen as the most experienced airline or in a very small group who are... when do you think we might be able to safely make these decisions ourselves using the resources of the 12,000 people who work here and are very experienced". The Exec at the time (although not on an exorbitant salary) responded something like "We'll never hesitate to bring in expertise when we feel it's necessary" to which Dad responded "That's what I thought". Now, I only mention this because the consultant fad had just started back then and even though QF was govt. owned (although an unlisted public company) there were still people around who presumably loved using consultants because there's someone to blame if it doesn't go well.

[AerialPerspective]

On a long haul flight there may not be room and to be fair I think asking people to sit in a jumpseat on a 13+ hours flight is probably stretching the friendship.

On saying that though the senior management types see it below them to do such a thing.

Offered the jumpseat twice on domestic sectors to executive types once on a horror day huge delays across all airlines, both times they refused, blocking a seat for a full fare paying passenger.

When it's days like that you see senior management types true colours. Duty Travel staff paxing in jumpseats to give their seats to full fare passengers, while these clowns sit in business leaving paying customer in the terminal and the flow on affect is one more hotel room that your airline will have to buy. Says it all really.
People in Ansett (in the past) and Air NZ have done this too in my experience so it's not just Qantas.

[AerialPerspective]

Me thinks your logic is a wee bit warped there NZKiwi, an almost angelic name to boot, I might add.
Duty travel tech crew are booked firm, no travelling public displaced!
Another thing ,no tech crew , no go , which is the only reason tech crew would displace paying passengers otherwise Alan and every other passenger would miss their party.
Plus it's contractually agreed upon, for techies to be up the pointy end vieing against all the management wunderkinds and fatigue issues might have something to do with the whole enchilada for tech crew as well.
That's right... was we used to say, it's better to inconvenience 1 pax instead of 400 wherever the TC is traveling to operate from.

[AerialPerspective]

If crew are "must go" for operational requirements, I don't see a problem. Otherwise more people with be disrupted.
Pilots and cabin crew keep QF operating. If they are booked duty travel and are "must go" (I'm sure people here can figure out what that means), then they SHOULD displace paying passengers, that's obvious. Management are never "must go". They are important, but are not operationally important.
However, again, nobody has verified that AJ was there. I know for a fact he has stayed behind in the past to allow Passengers to get home. Just seems too convenient for the lynch mob.
Unless there was a corporate, legal or operational reason for the Exec to be somewhere... e.g. meeting with FAA, CASA, etc. for whatever reason, testify before the Senate (subpoenas are issued for this and to not turn up is contempt of parliament, a very serious charge) but it's unlikely this was the case.

[Capt Fathom]

Aerial, you need to go easy on the caffeine!

[sierra5913]

there were still people around who presumably loved using consultants because there's someone to blame if it doesn't go well.

All that's needed to be said when it comes to "consultants".

Its not just about building a business. They're also there to take the blame when things go "pear shaped".

...and I thought this was common knowledge.

[AerialPerspective]

Aerial, you need to go easy on the caffeine!
Haha, I don't post that often but every now and then I do a sprint LOL

[onehitwonder]

Perhaps we will see additional 380's? Move to a 380/787 international fleet, with 747/767/330 retirement

[SixDemonBag]

More 380's?!
http://h6.abload.de/img/0382_s7tr.gif

[B772]

onehitwonder.

It is almost guaranteed the A380 with QF will be a one hit wonder.

[Ixixly]

Qantas boss Alan Joyce opens hi-tech A380 service ?shed? in Los Angeles to make airline millions (http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/travel/qantas-boss-alan-joyce-opens-hitech-a380-service-shed-in-los-angeles-to-make-airline-millions/news-story/f27eaf8d4cce9196be7b7fa7f1dc091d)

Don't fear everyone, Mr Joyce is well ahead of the game in opening this excellent Heavy Maintenance Facility in the US...kind of like the one he closed in Avalon...that he said supposedly would be less and less viable in the future...hmmm...

[wooski]

not sure, as SLF would rather be in an a380 compared to a 777/330/747.
much nicer ride in Y. even happy to pay a little more to be in the whale.

onehitwonder.

It is almost guaranteed the A380 with QF will be a one hit wonder.

[Fris B. Fairing]

I had a dream that Qantas built a huge hangar in LAX to maintain the A380s (that don't need as much maintenance as older aeroplanes). Then the dream got really crazy. They intend to use the hangar to solicit maintenance business from other airlines.

[Sunfish]

I don't fly Qantas. It is no longer an Australian airline. I hope Qantas gets exactly what it deserves from its LAX maintenance operation.

The operative phrase is : "Buy it and fly it". The A380 is going to have a short life and no resale value if it is maintained to "American" standards, but QF management will have departed with their bonuses by the time a new management has to contemplate a replacement.....

....And they will have no Australian maintenance capability or experience to guide them when that time comes.

[CurtainTwitcher]

The A380 is going to have a short life and no resale value
Past tense is required, as they already have zero resale value. Possibly a different way to view is the "time-to-scrap", based on maintenance location. I don't think they really care to be honest, its a commercial dog to them.

Interestingly, it was put to me that the hanger also has the ability to fit 5x 787 at once...

[Capt Fathom]

I don't fly Qantas. It is no longer an Australian airline

What Australian airline do you fly with Sunny?

[Sunfish]

Anything but Qantas and its bastard child Jetstar....and not Tiger either.

[VC9]

With two A380's on the ground there for around 15 hours every day, I would think that LAX was a logical place to do maintenance. But I guess logic isn't an attribute of a lot of posters on here.

[bolthead]

What amount of ground time do they average in Aus?

[C441]

What amount of ground time do they average in Aus?

Sydney varies but its never more than 2 hours, plus or minus a bit, during a transit in Melbourne.

[On eyre]

C441 - QF10 gets into MEL 2100ish and surely stays overnight.

[maggot]

C441 - QF10 gets into MEL 2100ish and surely stays overnight.

Nope goes back to the sandpit

[On eyre]

Yes sorry you are correct Maggot.

[CamelSquadron]

Qantas boss Alan Joyce opens hi-tech A380 service ?shed? in Los Angeles to make airline millions (http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/travel/qantas-boss-alan-joyce-opens-hitech-a380-service-shed-in-los-angeles-to-make-airline-millions/news-story/f27eaf8d4cce9196be7b7fa7f1dc091d)

Don't fear everyone, Mr Joyce is well ahead of the game in opening this excellent Heavy Maintenance Facility in the US...kind of like the one he closed in Avalon...that he said supposedly would be less and less viable in the future...hmmm...
Thats what happens when an airlines own engineering staff seek to "slow bake" their employer.

[CurtainTwitcher]

My memory is a little hazy there camelsquadron, was that before or after the CEO described his own pilots as being involved in a "kamikaze campaign (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3195959.htm)"? What a way to inspire confidence in your brand.

Alan,Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Ow, Ow, Steve, Steve, Steve...Hey, Hey, Hey
XgvR3y5JCXg

[blow.n.gasket]

Those kamikaze red tie wearing pilots.
Real militant those International Qantas pilots aren't they, camel.
When was the last time they went on strike ?
1966ish or so wasn't it ?

[CamelSquadron]

Those kamikaze red tie wearing pilots.
Real militant those International Qantas pilots aren't they, camel.
When was the last time they went on strike ?
1966ish or so wasn't it ?
Not sure what that has to do with engineering staff and Avalon.........

[AerialPerspective]

Thats what happens when an airlines own engineering staff seek to "slow bake" their employer.
Yes and the AVV Base was a B747 MRO and the B747 fleet is dwindling fast, it was more than 30 aircraft at one stage and now down to what, 11??? Obviously it wasn't viable to keep it open and A380s don't tend to spend a whole day at MEL and/or be able to 'pop' over to AVV for maintenance. The LAX move makes perfect financial and engineering sense. Don't waste the time while the aircraft is on the ground in LAX and actually do some maintenance. They may even be able to garner some third party work from other A380 operators at LAX.