DR10 Conviction and implications on future employment prospects

[Cool_Hand_Bus_Driver]

I have recently commenced pilot training for my Commercial Pilot's training. Five weeks ago i got stopped by the police and blew 36mg on the breathlyser. I was informed i was under arrest for drink driving the drink driving limit i am reliably informed is 22mg where i stay. A week ago i was basically convicted of DR10: Driving or Attempting to drive whilst under the influence fined and disqualified for a period of 17 months reduced to 12 on completion of an awareness course.

Now if there is someone out there in the know-how with regards to implications on future employment prospects and an airside pass.

I fully take the blame there is no excuse for drink driving.

[pilotmike]

There is both good and bad news; please don't shoot the messenger.

Very simply, isn't a total show stopper, contrary to what some will tell you, but it most certainly isn't going to help you.

It will remain an unspent conviction for 5 years, and will show on the Basic Disclosure you will need to gain an airside pass. Again, some will tell you it is a disqualifying conviction for an airside pass, but that is not true. So you will still be able to obtain an airside pass, and it doesn't disqualify you from flying / being employed as a Commercial Pilot. However...

You'll need to get that first job, and you'll be up against loads of other equally qualified candidates without such a conviction, so it will be a struggle. And if asked about any convictions, you must declare it. You can always tell how you have learned from it, but I would imagine most airlines would prefer to interview / employ someone who didn't need to learn such a lesson first-hand. An employer will be asking themself "Is this a suitable person to trust with my £xxmillion aircraft, with my passengers and with my airline's reputation?" Put yourself in their shoes, faced with 2 candidates, one with the conviction and one without.

Waiting 5 years would allow it to become a 'spent conviction' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, meaning you do NOT have to declare it to anyone, and it would not show on a Basic Disclosure. All anyone can ask you is (more correctly, you can answer any related questions as though they had been phrased): "Do you have any un-spent convictions?", to which you can honestly reply "no".

So you could get an interview and a job without having to reveal your hard learned lesson, which would be much, much easier. Even then, bear in mind, your driving licence will still reveal your little secret for a full 11 years I believe, so the truth could still be forced out of you, even though by law you do not have to declare that spent conviction after 5 years.

In summary, it would be a whole lot simpler for you to time your training so that your applications for a job are in 5 years time when your conviction is spent.

I hope this helps.

[Piltdown Man]

A good piece pilotmike. And CHBD, assuming you get a job some airlines (typically the smaller ones) want a copy of your driving licence to make it easier for them to hire a car on your behalf, should that be necessary.

[Bealzebub]

Adding to what has already been said you will also need to declare it for visa applications to some foreign countries. For example, the USA will require you be interviewed for a visa should you or your future employer require you to travel there. That in turn will require you submit (on each visa application) an ACPO police certificate. This takes time and costs money. Despite U.K. Legislation on the matter, your application to enter another country (such as the USA) is not affected by any statute limitation. They require you to disclose the arrest and or conviction no matter how long ago it took place.

As has been said, it isn't necessarily a show stopper, and you are not the first person to be in this position, but in this career it is likely to be a nuisance.

[B2N2]

And you're inadmissible to Canada
Canada DUI Entry for Flight Attendants and Pilots (http://www.canadaduientrylaw.com/flight-attendants-pilots.php)

And you're going to have an issue with the application of a FAA medical #18 last question

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/attachments/form-ff-jpg.22839/

[pilotmike]

Said on behalf of the OP, who has vanished without so much as an acknowledgement to all who helped, leave alone any hint of a 'thank you'!

"... oh! ... and thank you very much to you kind people for taking time out to give me such good help and assistance after I managed to screw-up big time.

Next time I'm in a self-dug hole and I need to call on you all for some more help I'll know exactly where to come."

[ramprat101uk]

Could anyone help me here. I am currently working on the ramp and i have been offered a job as an aircraft refueller. I have DR10 conviction which is now spent, from 2009 but stays on license until 2020. Do I have to declare this and will this stop me from getting the job. I am already working on the airport and have been for 10 years and have had a clean license since i got it back in 2010. I have been offered the job contract and everything all signed, i am just worried where it says 'Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence (Declaration subject to rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974)' , do i tick YES because i have or NO because it is spent now so LEGALLY i do not need to? BUT they will find out anyway because of the license check for my HGV entitlement.

Please Help.

[Rottweiler22]

My friend had a drink driving conviction. I remember that he had to jump through extra hoops to get a US visa. He had to have an interview with an official at the US embassy as far as I can remember. I know that to get his FAA medical he had to get a document from a FAA-certified doctor in the UK, stating that he wasn't an alcoholic.

I suppose you should only declare stuff if they ask. At my old job, every six months or so employees would be asked to fill out a driving licence update form. To insure for driving company vehicles, and also for HGV expiry dates, tacho cards, Driver CPCs, etc. So the firm could book renewals, courses and so on. On that form was a compulsory section on any new driving convictions.

Ramprat, I assume that if it asks if you've "ever" been convicted of an offence, it wants you disclose everything. Spent and unspent. Kind of makes sense if the job is airside at an airport. I think it would be very bad taste not to declare it.

[RVR800]

INHO: If the conviction is spent and subject to disclosure under Rehabilitation of Offenders Act then there is no need to state it. This is just a basic declaration requirement.

[ramprat101uk]

Rottweiler22

Thanks for replying. I think it is in my best interest to tick YES and then say if asked say. It does not affect an airside pass as i'm already on the airport and driving all sorts of equipment including HGV's. Doing a basic disclosure doesn't even show anything as its been spent and is now 8 years. Legally under ROA 1974 i do not have to disclose it BUT!! soon as i get a license check they will see anyway so best to be straight up from the start. I cant see why they wouldn't give me the job as i already have hgv, airside pass and airside license, just i know some company's can be really funny if they want to :( I really want this job, life changing to be fair. Would be gutted if such a silly mistake from 8 years ago gets in the way of my future.

[pilotmike]

I must refer you to pilotmike's earlier post from 30th Dec 2016.

ramprat101uk:

You are NOT obliged to declare a spent conviction, and even if they phrase it "Have you ever been convicted...." you are allowed to answer NO on the basis that they are only allowed to ask "Do you have any unspent convictions". So, DON'T declare it as it won't help you.

Similarly, it will not show on the Basic Disclosure you are required to provide., which I'm sure you already know, because you must already have an airside pass.

As for producing your licence, yes they will know then, so you need to show them you are responsible, have learned from your mistakes etc. Find a way to turn it into a positive.

[ramprat101uk]

I know declaring it wont help me, if it said 'Do you have any unspent convictions?' I would happily say 'no' but because it says 'Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence? YES/NO (Declaration subject to the rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974) i am probably better off being honest and saying YES because I have to fill out a form called 'Advancedcheck GBG know your people' to make sure I have a license and HGV entitlement. So if i say no then they do the check and see that, I will look like a liar or that i;m trying to hide it, wouldn't it?

If it wasn't a driving offence which bloody stays for so long I could of said no but all you need is your postcode, national insurance and license number, which they all have and DR10 pops up straight away! Im hoping they see that I was working on the airport while I got the DR10. I was taken of driving until ban was up and been driving on airport airside ever since! No points just that DR10 from 8 years ago. Never had an accident or anything of the sort on the airport.

What i'm worrying about is if the fuelling company say their insurers wont allow them to take on someone with previous DR10. It has happened to be before with 2 other ground handlers that didn't accept me with DR10 before this one did. Mind you it wasn't spent at the time, i was 4 years after.

Another worrying thing is if they cannot take me on will i lose my ramp job now as i have handed in my resignation - i don't want to be jobless!

It is funny because i been offered the job, interviewed and signed contract asking for uniform sizes and then been asked to fill out the application form after which has this question on it. Hoping its only for filing purposes i might be ok?

Well I have to hand these forms in Monday, so I i will keep the post updated with what happens, but i'm very grateful for all the help. Iv never joined a forum before or even understand how they really worked but when i googled my situation this came up lol so gave it a shot lol.

[pilotmike]

I will try just one last time. You say "i am probably better off being honest and saying YES", having just quoted "Declaration subject to the rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974". So check the exact wording of the Act, and you'll see for yourself what you have to declare. Answering the question, however it is phrased, "NO" is being honest, with spent convictions.

In the example you gave about the time before it became spent, saying "NO" would have been lying. Now it is not lying, because the conviction is spent. However it sounds as though you have decided to declare it anyway, which is of course entirely your choice.

It seems odd not to listen to the information you have been given in direct answer to your original questions. So, for the final time: Could anyone help me here....I have DR10 conviction which is now spent... Do I have to declare this
No.
and will this stop me from getting the job.
Possibly. Declaring it probably makes it more likely.

[ramprat101uk]

I will try just one last time. You say "i am probably better off being honest and saying YES", having just quoted "Declaration subject to the rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974". So check the exact wording of the Act, and you'll see for yourself what you have to declare. Answering the question, however it is phrased, "NO" is being honest, with spent convictions.

In the example you gave about the time before it became spent, saying "NO" would have been lying. Now it is not lying, because the conviction is spent. However it sounds as though you have decided to declare it anyway, which is of course entirely your choice.

It seems odd not to listen to the information you have been given in direct answer to your original questions. So, for the final time:
No.

Possibly. Declaring it probably makes it more likely.

Hi Mike i completely understand what you are saying BUT because i'm doing a driving job, they are doing a license check which states DR10, which is a criminal offence. So even though legally I can say 'NO' wouldn't it look bad when they see my license that contradicts that straight away. Would that not make me look dishonest from the get go? Could that not be used against me? Iv answered YES and need to hand it tomorrow. If I cross it out now it will look dodgy. I just really don't know what is best to do because i don't want to look like a liar (even though i legally can) but don't want bring up something that may cause issue BUT they will 100% find out anyway with a simple license check......so......Thanks for all the help and I will see what happens.