"Utter Indifference" of Emirates in DXB

[old,not bold]

I've been getting phone calls from people stuck at DXB on route from Manchester to Colombo, with Emirates.

The cause of the initial 3.5 hour delay out of MAN was fog; not the airline's fault, as all know, and the missed connections was the result of that delay.

The problem is what happened next. There were somewhere around 45 - 60 passengers connecting to Colombo. They have been penned up for 6+++ hours airside at DXB, no information apart from a series of idiotic and failed promises of replacement aircraft today, tomorrow, whatever lie comes to mind. No refreshments, talk of a cheap hotel way out in the desert, but no more than talk, until seats can be found, yimkin 31st Dec, yimkin 2nd, yimkin 3rd January, who knows, who cares?

This kind of situation is the real test of an airline, and Emirates are failing spectacularly, once again. Even at their home base they appear to be incapable of organising reasonable care of stranded and distressed passengers, who evidently include babies and children.

Advice on who to contact that I can pass on would be invaluable; does anyone have any suggestions? Phone number of a senior customer service manager, lurking somewhere in a well-appointed office, maybe?

The comment that the thread title repeats is this; "What is so unbelievable is the utter indifference of all the staff who have so far deigned to appear at all to talk to us".

[Heathrow Harry]

Being stuck in DXB airside is not the worst fate that can befall anyone - there are rest rooms, restaurants, bars, shops................ better there than being trucked to some 2 star place outside TBH

These things happen and pretty much all airlines are the same in my experience - they'll get rid of you as soon as they can but don't expect any SERVICE

[DaveReidUK]

Advice on who to contact that I can pass on would be invaluable; does anyone have any suggestions? Phone number of a senior customer service manager, lurking somewhere in a well-appointed office, maybe?

https://twitter.com/emiratessupport

[old,not bold]

Hi Harry, part of the problem was that they were penned in a transit area with few if any facilities.....

Dave, thanks but at the time the situation needed more than a message to Emirates support; it needed the intervention of a senior person with some nous and clout to get things done.

That happened, it seems, and most, perhaps all of the group are expected to be on their way, in Sha' Allah, at 2.30 am tomorrow, ie early Friday morning. So a good recovery, in the end, and credit where credit is due.

But the fact remains that when the delayed flight eventually landed at Dubai it came as a complete surprise to the ground staff that there would be 65 people on board who would miss their Colombo flight.

This knowledge was available from about 60 minutes after the STD of the flight from Manchester, ie about 10 hours before the aircraft landed in Dubai.

Dear God, we did one hell of a lot better than this back in the 1970s, in another Gulf airline, using the relatively primitive computer-based systems we had at that time and, of course the Telex. We could and did usually have alternative arrangements in place for everyone whose connections were missed by a delayed incoming flight from Europe or the Far East, by the time the delayed flight landed.

Why can't airlines like Emirates get this right, 40 years later? Why can't they even try? What the hell is wrong with the Management, apart from stultifying complacency? They either know what's going wrong, and don't give a toss, or they don't know in the first place because they don't bother to look. Either way, I would have them on the fist flight out with zero pay-off, if I owned Emirates.

[Hotel Tango]

old, not bold, I may be completely wrong, but 40 years ago many airlines had their own motivated ground staff and a Station Manager. These days most airlines are at the mercy of a handling agency who basically don't care a toss as to what happens further down the line!

[paulc]

I had an excellent experience from another UAE based airline when it all went wrong in Manila. Fed and watered in departure lounge before flight was cancelled then off to an excellent hotel for 36 hours. Updated regularly for when flight was to depart and fed / watered etc. I was economy class only and have continued to use the same airline on this route.

The mark of a good airline is not always how well it gets you from A to B but how they react when it goes wrong especially when not at home base.

[crewmeal]

Dear God, we did one hell of a lot better than this back in the 1970s, in another Gulf airline, using the relatively primitive computer-based systems we had at that time and, of course the Telex. We could and did usually have alternative arrangements in place for everyone whose connections were missed by a delayed incoming flight from Europe or the Far East, by the time the delayed flight landed.

Perhaps a good old fashioned phone call to Emirates Support would have helped. Living in the modern computer based 21st Century people still have trouble communicating these days.

[old,not bold]

Hotel Tango, you are more or less right; at many line stations with most airlines there would have been at least a Station and/or District Manager, in one guise or another. But, except at their home base, most airlines purchased their ground handling from another airline (especially if pooled) or an agent.

But that's by the by; what counts is the airline's determination, or lack of it, to ensure that their customers get the best possible service, which means, in the case of delayed flights and missed connections, starting work on alternatives as soon as it becomes obvious that the problem is going to happen, not just doing SFA and reacting pathetically badly when confronted with a large group of tired, unhappy and distressed passengers becoming, understandably, increasingly irate at the connection airport. Who does this depends on how the airline runs things, but what the airline cannot escape is total responsibiity for making sure they or their contractors do it and do it well. Some manage this, as Paulc reminds us.

As for the case that triggered this thread, let us remember that this was Emirates/DNATA in action at their own home base! Thus no other parties involved. If they screw up so badly there, it takes little imagination to foresee how badly they will screw up when their passengers are in the hands of an agent where there is no Emirates representation.

Let's also remember that the agent's eagerness to go the extra mile might be tempered by Emirates'/DNATA's payment policy (yes, bitter experience!) to delay payments for months, then argue the toss on spurious grounds as a delaying tactic, and finally do nothing in the hope that the payee will give up. Perhaps their accountant trained with Ryanair.

Perhaps a good old fashioned phone call to Emirates Support would have helped. It's why I asked if anyone could supply the number of a Customer Service manager. No-one did, perhaps because it's a closely guarded secret. You would need to believe in fairies to believe that simply calling Emirates Support call-centre, from a pen in DXB airside transit area, if you can find it's UAE number (wi-fi was allegedly not working properly), to ask for decent service now would achieve anything. (It's quite indicative that of the 4 topics they list for telephone support, each one is about something Emirates want to sell to you!)

[spiney]

Over the years I've missed connections in DXB on 2 occasions due to late arrivals. On both occasions Emirates couldn't get the passengers to hotels quick enough - reasonable hotels, 10 mins from the airport, all pretty decent really... In both cases I was delayed around 12-14 hrs.

Maybe times they are a-changing.

[edi_local]

Why would calling a Senior manager do any good?

They know about the issue, they deal with misconnections on a daily basis for all sorts of the reasons. They will be in an office trying to work out how best to get 100s of people on thier way on what is still part of the busiest 2 weeks of the year for air travel and will then feed that information down to the front line agents. Just because a senior manager isn't there in the front line doesn't mean they aren't trying to fix the problem. I never gave out the numbers to such departments when I was on the front line. The last thing those people need is passengers harassing them when they are trying to shut out all external distractions and focus on rerouting 100s of people onto flights with no seats. It might not be the best experience, but someone will be working on these things and when such large numbers of people are involved patience, even several hours of it, is all that is needed. You can't just click your fingers and expect to get people moving when there has been massive disruption.

[old,not bold]

Sooner or later, when things are not being done as they should be done, it is pointless to speak to anyone except the organ-grinder. It does senior managers no harm whatsoever to talk to angry passengers after a system failure which could have been avoided by better management.

I repeat; the problem in DXB that I posted about was Emirates miserable failure to recognise and deal with the problem in good time, ie when it become known that the departure from Manchester would be so delayed that connections would be missed.

On my workstation in the UAE in 1976 I could call up on our relatively primitive CRS a list of all connecting passengers aboard an incoming flight and their next/ultimate destinations, and start the ball rolling to arrange alternative flights, hotels, transport etc before a delayed service landed. Here we are, 40 years later, and Emirates still have to learn how to do that. Call me unimpressed.

[ExXB]

I'd like to see airlines rated on their record of dealing with problems of this nature. This is the airline industry and sh*t does happen from time to time. I recall, some years ago, travelling SIN-ZRH on SQ. which returned to SIN after shiputting down an engine somewhere over India. On arrival in SIN every passenger was given a letter that apologised for the delay and detailed the alternative arrangements that had been made on that passengers behalf. Some were rebooked onto a replacement flight, some on other flights (SQ and OAL), some with connecting flights etc.

Of course they did have a few hours to orchestrate this, but in my mind this is the gold standard. Spare no expense. Get the passengers to their destinations ASAP without any hassle. And this type of treatment should happen at every station, not just home base.

Edited to add: Seems as Airline Senior Executives are exempt from disruption. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/01/alan-joyce-among-qantas-passengers-stranded-in-dubai-but-not-for-long Interesting comment from QF spokesman that it is normal to cascade an irops problem through successive flights. While I suspect this was just a lie to justify bumping a First Class Passenger to keep the CEO happy, I certainly hope it isn't true.

At the airline I worked with many years ago there was a standing order that passengers took priority over all employees, particularly the CEO. In one case The CEO was behind the counter helping passengers reroute, not hiding in the lounge.

[edi_local]

This isn't 1976. Yes, there are more flights, but there are also more people to move around and that is exacerbated at this time of year.

Having worked on the front line for several years in times of mass disruption, in this decade, during times of bad weather and various other reasons, I can assure you it's not easy to just accommodate 60 odd passengers be it at the airlines home base or an outstation. Those 60 odd passengers also seem to think they are the only people affected when in reality they are but a drop in the ocean. Of course EK knew they would misconnect but if there was physically no other flights to put them on or no hotels available then what can they do? The MAN flight was not the only affected flight, LON had fog that day, that's 6 loads of A380s with potentially disrupted passengers and that's before you even think about the LGW flights. Then you have other stations around the world feeding people into DXB many of which may be sending people late too. If you delay flights out of DXB to reasonably accommodate late inbound passengers then you also annoy a plane load of other passengers, many of whom may also have onward connections out of the next destination which EK would then be responsible for. You need to have a bit more of a sense of reality here. I fully sympathise with the passengers, but if there is nothing that can be done quickly then they also need to understand that. I sympathise more with the staff in the firing line though as it seems so many, even those in the industry are so quick to brand them as useless, hiding information or being deliberately difficult.

[Heathrow Harry]

the normal problem with ANY transport disruption is the lack of information

The best I've seen in the last few years was last year when Eurostar had a person under a train at 11:00. By 11:30 they'd got a load of people out of their offices in St Pancras in yellow jackets, armed with I-pads roaming the station area.

They were actively approaching the punters, telling them it would be at least a 2 hour delay, telling where they could leave their luggage and passing out hot line numbers and the web address to rebook. The hot line worked brilliantly and when we got back at around 18:00 they were managing queues, helping people get their new tickets and passing out water etc.

All it takes is some planning some training AND THE RIGHT ATTITUDE

[SamYeager]

@edi_local
Of course EK knew they would misconnect but if there was physically no other flights to put them on or no hotels available then what can they do?

Tell the passengers what the current situation is? Arrange for food/refreshments to be available? In this case it appears, as far too often happens, there was a distinct lack of communication and advance planning. Whilst passengers will obviously not be happy at least they will have an initial briefing telling them the bad news and be told when the next update is likely to take place.


You make a good point about the amount of disrupted passengers funnelling into DXB but that's why Emirates should already have previously prepared a draft plan to deal with this type of problem. London airports suffering from bad weather during winter is not exactly unknown after all!

[Heathrow Harry]

Just like Great Western railways you mean?

Every time they have "a person under" there is a total lack of info - all they need to say is "at least 2 hours delay" and we can all b***** off to Waterloo and use the slow line to Reading but do they do do it? Hell no........

[ExXB]

the normal problem with ANY transport disruption is the lack of information.

The challenge here is that often the information being sought simply doesn't exist, or is changing.

You are sitting at a fog encrusted airport and your inbound aircraft has joined the queue to land. Fog worsens and a diversion is necessary. What was an known hour or two delay has become an indeterminate delay depending on the situation. Will the aircraft be able to refuel and continue? Will passengers be bused from/to the diverted airport. Are buses available, are bus drivers available? How the hell does the gate agent know the definitive answers before the people in the back room know them?

The necessity of having the lowest possible costs (and the highest executive bonuses) means that own or contracted staff simply do not exist to deal with the problems. Automation can help, but you always are going to need feet on the ground to deal properly. Better contingency planning, better simulations, better training and the recognition that customer satisfaction is more important than bonuses are all required.

Since that ain't gonna happen all of us SLF have to realise that the days of the airline getting you to your destination, at all costs, are gone forever.

[Hotel Tango]

Since that ain't gonna happen all of us SLF have to realise that the days of the airline getting you to your destination, at all costs, are gone forever.

Yes, but arguably with the exception of C or F class pax. I have had a number of good experiences with delayed and cancelled flights, but in all cases I was in C Class. Generally speaking the Y class pax are way further down the priority list.

I guess you get what you paid for!

[Heathrow Harry]

recently I had to call Emirates to change something -

"you'll be lucky" was the general response of those working beside me in the office

Of course it was picked up on the second ring and fixed in 5 minutes...

Business Class has its advantages for sure.................

[old,not bold]

I fully sympathise with the passengers, but if there is nothing that can be done quickly then they also need to understand that. I sympathise more with the staff in the firing line though as it seems so many, even those in the industry are so quick to brand them as useless, hiding information or being deliberately difficult. Oh dear, how depressing, I detect the authentic voice of today's industry; the words "they need to understand that" say it all.

Trust me, Edi Local, they do understand that. What they don't understand is how, with something like 8 hours notice that there would be a need to deal with the connecting passengers, Emirates spent about 8 hours doing precisely nothing to prepare for the arrival in DXB of 60 or so delayed passengers on the ex MAN flight, as well as, of course, delayed passengers on other flights as well. All the hotel, transfer and onward flight arrangements that were made eventually about 6 hours after their arrival could and should have been made before they landed. No-one on this thread mentioned "useless", "hiding information" or "deliberately difficult", as far as I know. It is a corporate failure on the part of Emirates (in this case) to foresee that such problems will occur, to have a well-developed plan to deal with it, and to train their staff to do it, not just a minor lapse by some staff.

It is blindingly obvious that this corporate failure results from a corporate lack of will.

The complete lack of any meaningful communication between ground staff and this group of 60 passengers is a symptom of the same corporate failure to make staff understand that in such circumstances the priority is to tell people what's happening, what you are doing, when things will happen, etc etc. If you have no information to pass on, then passengers must be told that.

Because corporate failure in one area of an airline usually extends to corporate failure in other areas where operational safety can be compromised, I have for many years maintained a position that there are no circumstances whatsoever in which I would buy a ticket on Emirates, and I think I'll stick to that.

[Wannabe Flyer]

I fly emirates regularly. I transit thru Dxb regularly. As a poster has said earlier the facilities in the transit area are excellent. It is a busy airport, but they have desks everywhere that provide information when asked. They have a process they follow. In that airport they will not hunt you down or call for you it is upto you to go upto a desk & ask for the latest update. As for food & water, you might be in a Dessert, but there is more than enough in options to buy food & water as well as areas that one can rest. What the OP should write is that free food & water was not available on demand. I have been delayed there many a time & they hand you a coupon every 6 hours or so for a fixed limited meal & refreshment at select restaurants.

[Mr Mac]

Wannabe Flyer / Heathrow Harry
I have to agree with you as I transit DXB at least once a month and have never had issues to get wound up about and have been using EK for 16 years approx. They have not ever not held a connection or lost my luggage and the luggage has even been on board when they held my connection. However as HH says all his and my flying with EK is at the front so I can not say how things are in economy. My only criticism is that EK is not as good as it used to be in the food and wine dept , and that when flying with Mrs Mac, they try and put us in the middle on the A380 when we both prefer window seats. They do this even when we have stipulated our preference and even selected seats on line as they believe they are being kind, so it is meant with the best intentions.

[Background Noise]

I have only connected in DXB twice and both (operationally) were fine - even on the return when the inbound flight had been delayed and we were concerned about the reduced time on the ground of 45 minutes. They had us disembark first, and guided us through flight connections, but the EK staff were clearly not as worried as we were and the connection worked with plenty of time in hand.

As for a little effort making a bad situation bearable (see thread http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/588443-ba-captain-went-above-beyond.html), they could have done bit more for us on the way out. We had the unfortunate experience of being vomitted on - well not fully, but a bit of overspray from a nearby pax on the descent. Although it was a projectile event, we only got a coupe of spots on trousers and fortunately my partner had her super-practical travelling vinyl handbag which was wipe clean, but we still felt a bit unclean.

But, given that we had another 5-hour flight to come, and it being their home base, I do think they could have been a bit more ingratiating - maybe offered the use of their premium class facilities, shower, washrooms etc. We complained a bit later on and after being fobbed off a bit we eventually got a good load of points, but a bit of help at the time would have worked wonders - and been free.

[The late XV105]

Being stuck in DXB airside is not the worst fate that can befall anyone - there are rest rooms, restaurants, bars, shops................ better there than being trucked to some 2 star place outside TBH

These things happen and pretty much all airlines are the same in my experience - they'll get rid of you as soon as they can but don't expect any SERVICE
To the comment of don't expect any service; On the occasion I write about I was travelling from Heathrow to Tucson via Chicago. A change of aircraft meant a much delayed departure and a powerful headwind meant the flight took way over the scheduled time. I had just under one hour to get from gate to gate, across the airport and of course having to collect and deposit my hold baggage in the process.

On approach to Chicago all connecting pax were told over the PA to collect a yellow envelope from the wall of the hall after leaving the airbridge - and to keep it visible to fast track formalities. There were lots and lots of such envelopes.

Inside my envelope was a ticket for the next morning's flight, a confirmed hotel room, a dinner voucher, a breakfast voucher - and a clear instruction to use them if I didn't make the connection.

I did, by the skin of my teeth but I thought the handling of the delay by BA and their ground agent to be excellent.

[old,not bold]

The Late VX105 Yes, that's what should happen, of course, and you have shown that it's perfectly possible if someone in charge thinks ahead.

Enough of that; here's some praise for a superb response by an airline in a situation where others might have responded quite differently.

Step forward Flybe.. For the first time in my life I made a stupid mistake a few days ago when booking myself and a colleague onto a day return pair of flights. The result was that I had two seats, and the colleague none.

Customer Service picked up the phone in about 10 secs, listened to my tale of woe, and asked; "What's the other passenger's name?". I told her, and she said "No problem, it was obviously a mistake, I've changed the name and there's no charge."

I'll be back. In this day and age, we've learned not to expect that, and we should treasure it when it happens.

Mind you, she did add, very sweetly; "Do you need anything else, like assistance to the aircraft?", and I'm still wondering about that. I think it means that Flybe's staff have retained a good sense of humour, and I love it.

[wowzz]

Another pat on the back for BA. Last minute diversion into Quebec because of fog in Toronto, late on a Saturday night [already late due to a medical diversion to Shannon]. Coaches arranged, hotels booked, and back on the aircraft the following day to Toronto.
Yes, a bit of a delay getting the transport sorted out, but at relatively short notice a good performance. Certainly better than be left to fend for ourselves in the airport overnight.

[Heathrow Harry]

My point was don't EXPECT decent service - it does happen - a couple of times I've been dragged out of lines, through the back door of Customs/Immigration and driven to the gate to make a connection but it's not what a betting man would count on unfortunately.

[WHBM]

Anyone who has gone through Dubai will be aware that the transit area is stuffed full of food, shopping, etc, and that western credit cards are universally accepted. The staff at the airline desks all appear to speak English, which is more than can be said for many other transit points around the world.

Emirates have three 777 flights a day from Dubai to Colombo. Some might of course already be fully booked but they do have the frequency to get out of this situation.

Connecting flights are a well-known risk in travel, but there is of course an alternative daily Sri Lanka Airlines flight nonstop from London to Colombo which avoids any such risk. Of course, you can probably save a few quid by taking a connection through a third country. And yes, it can be physically challenging to be delayed for many hours sat in a place you have never been to before when it seems the middle of the night and you are grossly fatigued. But that sort of routing, regardless of carrier, was your choice.

[DaveReidUK]

Connecting flights are a well-known risk in travel, but there is of course an alternative daily Sri Lanka Airlines flight nonstop from London to Colombo which avoids any such risk. Of course, you can probably save a few quid by taking a connection through a third country. And yes, it can be physically challenging to be delayed for many hours sat in a place you have never been to before when it seems the middle of the night and you are grossly fatigued. But that sort of routing, regardless of carrier, was your choice.

That's true of LHR-CMB, but in general passengers connecting at DXB, or indeed any other hub, may not have had the option of flying direct.

[Ancient Observer]

Info., info., info.

Most pax can understand that there are complex issues.

Even if the info is that we do not currently have a solution.

Surely all airlines know there will be issues such as that raised by the op. They must learn to communicate.