Have to re-do ATPL theory exams...please help

[Team Bravo]

Hello everyone,

I am new on this forum so please bear with me.

Long story short, the UK CAA has given me the heart breaking news that my ATPL theory credit has expired since I haven't entered an IR for 7 years in the EASA license. I previously did the ATPL exams in 2008 and obtained a JAR CPL/IR shortly afterwards. Since then I have been flying in North America and the Middle East on an ICAO license. That being said, I really need help gathering information on how to proceed with re-taking these 14 theory exams.

I have tried to contact the UK CAA by email, but they are not responding. I don't know if they have a phone number (can anyone provide?)

What I am trying to find out is if I need to go through an ATO to do the exams or if I can simply do my own self study for the material and schedule the exams at my own leisure.

Also I would greatly appreciate any guidance as to which apps (Bristol, Oxford, CTC, PilotPad, Dauntless) are the best for distance learning purposes.

Im very sorry for the long winded post but I am reaching out for help here from any fellow students and pilots who can help me get through this hurdle with the CAA. Thanks everyone and safe flying. Looking forward to any responses!

[felixflyer]

Hi

I am redoing my exams at the moment as I never took the CPL or IR with 3 years of passing.

For myself I needed to be put forward by a school and did this through my previous one (CATS). I do not need to redo the brush up course so it was a low fee just to give me access to the online study guides and progress test. Who did you go through previously?

As for study guides, there are so many available used I ended up buying a few and have a full set of CATS, Bristol and Oxford ones. I also use the Bristol online question bank as preparation for the exams.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Get EASA Professional Studies by Phil Croucher. All the ATPL syllabus in one book straight to the point. It's my main source of studying. If you want an "app" then I am happy with Bristol GS, but get that book anyway.

Because of the nature of the EASA exams, you do need a good question bank and if you are doing your exams at a UK CAA venue then you should be good to go with Bristol GS question bank. If you are doing it under another CAA then Aviation Exam has more questions. Bristol GS weeds out questions that they know are not asked anymore by the UK CAA.

And if I am not mistaken, given your situation you don't need to be enrolled in any ground school course and you can do everything at your own leisure.

[BillieBob]

Since then I have been flying in North America and the Middle East on an ICAO license.Did either of those licences include an instrument rating?

[paco]

You would need to have a minimum number of hours on a multicrew aircraft to be able to self-certify, as well as an ICAO ATP.

CAA are at 01293 567171 or similar.

Avoid Dauntless.

[BillieBob]

If the OP holds or has held an IR issued by a third country in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 within the last 7 years, there is no requirement to re-take the theoretical knowledge examinations.

ORS4 No.1090 B 5) Derogation from FCL.625(c) and (d) with respect to renewal of an Instrument Rating
Pursuant to Article 1 of Commission Decision 2014/69/EU, the United Kingdom allows the holders of licences issued in accordance with Part-FCL to renew their IR privileges without passing again the theoretical knowledge examinations for the IR, if they have held a valid IR on the licence of any third country within the seven years preceding IR renewal, provided that the third country licence is compliant with Annex I to the International Convention for Civil Aviation (ICAO Annex I)

[selfin]

That derogation concerns the IR rather than the ATPL theory credit. The authority would need to additionally derogate FCL.025(c)(2)(i).

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences and ratings

(c) Validity period

(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:

(i) an IR entered in the licence; or

...

[737 CL]

Hi , if you have a full UK Easa ATPL with a TR included. Do you still need an IR skill test every 7 years too for not getting the ATPL expired?

[Team Bravo]

Did either of those licences include an instrument rating?
Yes I failed to mention that all of my flying for the last 10 years have been instrument based on multi crew aircraft. I have 7000 hours of multi crew time and I am flying LHS B787 at the moment and I am current.

[Team Bravo]

That derogation concerns the IR rather than the ATPL theory credit. The authority would need to additionally derogate FCL.025(c)(2)(i).
That is exactly correct selfin.

What I was told by the UK CAA when I was looking to do my ATPL skills test, is that my theory has expired because I have not entered an IR in the EASA license for more than 7 years. They also quoted the derogation for the IR and made it clear that it ONLY applies to anyone applying for an IR who has not entered one in their EASA license for 7 years.

So regardless of the fact that I have been flying all over Europe on Airbus and Boeing aircraft during those 7 years, they do not consider my IR experience valid towards the issue of an ATPL license because it was not entered in the EASA license (flights on the ICAO licenses are not counted). If I would have done an EASA IR at any point in those 7 years then the ATPL theory credit would have been extended or reset to an additional 7 year period from that point forward.

[SeventhHeaven]

My 0.02€ - Have a look at other EASA member states. They all follow the same rules, but there are still substantial regional differences when interpreting them.

Personal story - I got a medical in country A, after being rejected in country B. Some countries require you to renew the MEIR in an airplane only, with a valid MEP, and others allow you to revalidate in the sim without a need for a mep (saving $$)

Shop around. If the UK CAA is pulling your legs, try somewhere else. The license is still valid, no matter which EASA state issued it.

[Team Bravo]

Could someone please quote the EASA rule stating that anyone with more than 500 hours multi crew does not need to go through an ATO for the ATPL theoretical exams. I would hate to go through these exams only to find out I needed to be signed off by an ATO.

A big thanks for all the replies so far!

[paco]

For fixed wing, it's 1500 hours as PIC on multipilot aeroplanes - 1000 for helicopters.

3.3 ANNEX III to Part-FCL

[Alex Whittingham]

Aircrew Regulation (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32011R1178) Article 8 para 4. It actually says that if you meet all the requirements for EASA ATPL issue (only part of which is 500 hours of multi-pilot operation) and hold an ICAO ATPL you are exempt the requirement for approved training.

[Team Bravo]

Thanks again for all the great responses. I can finally say with a good degree of certainty that I now know how to proceed with retaking these 14 exams. Seeing that I don't need any form of ground school this time around I might go ahead and study the material on my own and at my own pace.

I will definitely looking to EASA Professional Pilot Studies by Phil Croucher. I am also comparing question banks. I will most likely be doing the EASA exams in Cyprus since I have been in touch with the CAA there and it suits my needs perfectly. I am looking into Aviation Exam for the question bank as I like that they have an iPad app that works offline as well.

Does anyone else have any suggestions as far as study aids or question banks that I should be considering? Keep the great answers coming, I can't thank you all enough for all the help!

[Ivor Fynn]

I suggest you pm Alex Whittingham above as he runs Bristol Ground-school. Without him many of us would have a much harder time getting our ATPLs.

[ersa]

If your taking exams outside of the UK, aviation Exam are the closest for "REVISION" purposes...Bristol is excellent for UK exams.

[Lokki]

Aviation exams even for uk exams. I saw questions in the exam Bristol didn't have but aviation exam did

[PFDriver]

That is exactly correct selfin.

What I was told by the UK CAA when I was looking to do my ATPL skills test, is that my theory has expired because I have not entered an IR in the EASA license for more than 7 years. They also quoted the derogation for the IR and made it clear that it ONLY applies to anyone applying for an IR who has not entered one in their EASA license for 7 years.

So regardless of the fact that I have been flying all over Europe on Airbus and Boeing aircraft during those 7 years, they do not consider my IR experience valid towards the issue of an ATPL license because it was not entered in the EASA license (flights on the ICAO licenses are not counted). If I would have done an EASA IR at any point in those 7 years then the ATPL theory credit would have been extended or reset to an additional 7 year period from that point forward.
This is absolutely ridiculous!

A guy that has thousands and thousands of hours flying jets in europe has to get back to classroom to "learn" basics again, especially when tons of the sutff you're going to study is totally outdated! Honestly, I feel for you man...

I hold FAA and EASA and the amount of burocracy you have to go through when converting/validating stuff from one to the other is ludicrous!

I can recommend AviationExam, you'll be in good hands :)

Good luck!

[B777FO]

How hard to get it in EASA... I got my full ATP in Brazil with only 1,500 flight hours in a Cessna 152 (as Flight instrutor), our ground test is about Performance and Weight and Balance (40 questions) and then 1.5 (01:30) hours flying a Piper Sêneca (SID, 1 VOR and 1 FULL ILS)

[ersa]

B777FO

EASA EXAMS are like going to the dentist and having a tooth removed with a pair of pliers with no pain relief

The flying component is straight forward , you can fly or not.....

[keith williams]

It's very unusual to hear that the EASA exams are a pain in the mouth. They're usually described as a pain in the..........well...some other place.

[Waryhawk]

I too passed my ATPL exams but then lost the validity as I couldn't get the flying done within the required time for medical reasons.

I have been thinking about giving it another go but always thought I would have to do the full course, brush ups, it didn't occur to me that I might not need to do full course until I read this post.

However the exams were done a while ago though, 2007 with Oxford and I imagine things have changed a bit.

Who decides if I have to do full theory course again? the CAA ?

[Team Bravo]

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

I finally got a response from the UK CAA with a surprisingly good piece of news that I'm exempt from taking the VFR comms exam!

Its been 9 years since I did these exams but the studying has been going great so far and all the info seems to be familiar and palpable. POF drives me in circles sometimes but for the most part I'm getting through fine. Planning to take 5 exams towards the end of January.

Can anyone recall if formulas for any of the exams such as Instrumentation or Radio Nav are provided? I'm coming across a lot of the study material trying to figure out if I need the formulas committed to memory or not.

Have a wonderful new year everyone and again thanks for the support during this period.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

This pdf might come handy: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~zyox/ATPL%20summary.pdf

[Team Bravo]

Thank you Red Bull,

The PDF is very useful, I'll be sure to reference it during my studies. Seeing that there are indeed many formulas and equations for these subjects, are any of them provided during the exams? Should I commit to memory?

[rudestuff]

I thought I'd add to this instead of starting a new thread - as it may become relevant later on..

FCL.025(c)(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue* of a light aircraft pilot licence, a private pilot licence, a
sailplane pilot licence or a balloon pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue* of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en
route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;

Let's say you've skipped PPL exams and done CPL exams - crediting them toward the PPL [per FCL.035(b)(2)]

Do you get 24 months or 36 months to complete your PPL?

[Team Bravo]

Hello again everyone. Just finished my first 5 exams without any problem. Only 8 to go!

Anyone know when the last update for the JAR jeppesen manual was done? I'm using the old one I had back in 2006 but I don't know if there have been any additions or updates to it since. Also can anyone confirm if CAP 696, 697, and 698 are still the same versions last updated July 2006.

Thanks again everyone!

[paco]

All the same. The Jep manual is frozen in time, although other manufacturers will be invited to come in with their own versions in the future. It won't affect you though.

Make sure you have the up to date versions of the CAPS, though. Be prepared for graphs in questions that are not in them. ;)

[Team Bravo]

Good day ladies and gents,

Just finished my second batch of exams with success! So far I have finished re-taking 9 of the 13 required ATPL exams. So only 4 to go. To be honest at first I thought it would be much more daunting but as I'm going through these exams a lot of the material is so familiar and the rest requires a bit of studying.

I bring this up as motivation to anyone stuck in the situation I am where you have to re-take these EASA ATPL exams. Come forward with a positive attitude and take it as a personal challenge. You will only find that these exams are not only passable but also a good refresher in some areas. Although I will admit that about 70-80% of the material is completely irrelevant to flying in a modern multi-crew environment.

[DirtyProp]

Although I will admit that about 70-80% of the material is completely irrelevant to flying in a modern multi-crew environment.

Welcome to La La land.

[aaron050384]

Good day ladies and gents,

Just finished my second batch of exams with success! So far I have finished re-taking 9 of the 13 required ATPL exams. So only 4 to go. To be honest at first I thought it would be much more daunting but as I'm going through these exams a lot of the material is so familiar and the rest requires a bit of studying.

I bring this up as motivation to anyone stuck in the situation I am where you have to re-take these EASA ATPL exams. Come forward with a positive attitude and take it as a personal challenge. You will only find that these exams are not only passable but also a good refresher in some areas. Although I will admit that about 70-80% of the material is completely irrelevant to flying in a modern multi-crew environment.

Hi Team Bravo

Am I right in saying that you did not have to do any brush ups. I have nearly completed modules 1 and 2 for BGS. I was buying myself some time saving money as I was told I have to do the entire brush up again at Bristol. I was quoted nealy 2k.
If this is not the case I will more than challenge it. From what I have made of it from the CAP804, remedial training is as required. Seems like abit of a grey area. I have to say after studying the subjects thouroughly and going by my comprehensive notes from 09, there seems to not be a lot of change in terms of syllabus. I totally get that the exam banks would have changed but that's nothing that the BGS online Q bank could not help with. Your feedback would be great. 👍