Job in USA as a European? [Archive]

Transsonic2000

6th Dec 2016, 20:37

Hi there,

I hate to disappoint you, but this question has been asked and answered more than once here on the forum. But to make it short, unless you have the legal right to live and work in the States no Us carrier will hire you! Not to mention sponsoring, why should a US airline go through the hassle of doing a huge pile of paperwork and explain why the f*** they want to hire a foreign pilot over a US pilot who is equally qualified? Especially in light of the Trump administration, who want's to kick out all foreigners anyway. Come on, lets be realistic, that's absolutely ridiculous!

HEMS driver

7th Dec 2016, 02:09

Marchisio, airlines don't sponsor pilots in the U.S. You will need permanent residency by other means. One way is to participate in the "green card" lottery and then be patient. Another way to gain residency is to marry a U.S. citizen. Buona fortuna.

TowerDog

7th Dec 2016, 04:37

No sponsoring, no nothing.
Many years ago there was a program in the US whereas you could get a working permit if no locals had your qualifications.
Say a company needed a DHC-5 pilot. You applied from somewhere abroad and the company would have to advertise 3 times in the local paper for such a pilot.
No joy and you get hired with a "sponsor" kind of visa.
These days you better marry a US citizen and apply for a green card.
No guarantee however, lots of abuse doing that and it better be real.
Not that I have ever done that of course..

SunchaserMIA

7th Dec 2016, 09:18

I know that we are talking about flying here specifically. However, getting a job in the airline/aviation industry as a European with sponsorship in general is definitely possible, depending on the position.

ItsAjob

7th Dec 2016, 15:13

SunchaserMIA

8th Dec 2016, 10:41

Can you share your experience? What positions etc.

Well, on a very high level there are two possibilities:

L1 Visa - Company Transfer:
- In this case, your own company will transfer you to the USA.
- As airlines usually are globally operating, there might be opportunities for this on several levels. Most of them will be managerial positions, however, they can be definitely related to ops. Cargo managers, station managers, head of sales regions etc. are typical in my opinion. Of course this can vary and even for an L1 a company needs to go through administrative processes which can be costly, meaning they will not send someone over without specific benefits for the company.

H1B / EB-2 Visa (or similar) for skilled workers
- In this cased you would be hired directly in the US.
- Bachelors degree in a relevant field is a minimum, Masters is better and will have better chances of being approved.
- Typically chances are quite good for jobs in a STEM field.

What does this mean?
- I have seen quite some people from my airline transferred to the US to take up duties there.
- There are definitely people with European degrees etc. being hired from US companies for positions in the US (Boeing, UA, DL, ...)
- You will have good chances if you can combine airline industry knowledge and experience (which is quite specific) with a technology and management background.

EDDT

9th Dec 2016, 00:07

@TowerDog H1B / EB-2 Visa (or similar) for skilled workers still exist. It's an easier process in Canada and Australia for us Europeans though.

Marchisio as already stated, it comes down to one option (GreencardLottery has a 2% chance of winning) and that is marrying an US citizen OR permanent resident (Greencard holder)

You can then apply for a visa, to become permanent resident (which is enough to work for an U.S. airline) and after some years you could become US-citizen.
The FAA-ATPL costs about 13.000€, the conversion now is a lot more complicated now adays :rolleyes:

But why do you want to work as a pilot in the states? I agree it's a great country , but for pilots Italy is a good place, isn't it?.
I mean here, after 2 years of flight school and with 200 hours you fly A320 across Europe or 767 long-haul charter and make 3 times what your friends make. With age 22.

The US market has a longer career path, and is less plannable. There are no ab-initio programs or pilot schools run by airlines.
Instead collecting hours as flight teacher, firefighter planes, commuter planes etc. until you can get onto something with 50+ tonnes ZFW and make a decent income.

And please don't get me wrong. I think MPL and low experience pilots in big airliners are not the best way (though I am one myself), but as I said, it makes career here MUCH more plannable. Your income is on a good level fast and you can move on.
Although the big numbers the majors pay now, are not common anymore in EU...

Good night.

SunchaserMIA

9th Dec 2016, 10:56

Just regarding the greencard lottery: Chances of winning depend on your country of birth, which defines the allotment under which your entry is going to be selected. This is a diversity visa program, means that it aims at stimulating immigration of individuals from nations with generally low immigration to the US.

I do know some selectees personally and it took them less than 4 years to win.

Of course, I am not saying anyone should base your career plans on a lottery. However, participating is free and it cannot hurt.

Willemvdpol

11th Jul 2017, 15:21

havick

12th Jul 2017, 02:01

Guys, I am sure this has been asked/talked about before, so apologies in advance if it has....
The situation is as follows. The wife has a job offer in Florida and would really like to go there as she has family living there. So through her I would also get a Greencard allegedly. I'm 35 and work for a British carrier and have 5000hrs on the B737 and about 6000hrs on the B777 (both as First Officer). Total hours about 11500. I have also been at University but unfortunately never been able to finish, hence no degree. Also because I have no other degree/experience except for flying, it looks like I would be looking for a flying job there.
I am aware this is easier said than done... but if we would go what would I be looking at??
Regional maybe? or is there a chance of getting a job with a Major? Preferably ofcourse based somewhere in Florida....
Guys thanks very much for your time and information. Please be honest especially if my options are limited and chances close to 0. Rahter find out now than later.
Cheers

With a green card but no degree look at Envoy (AA wholly owned regional). Base re-opening in Miami with a flow through to mainline (5-7 years depending on who you ask), MIA is also one of the junior bases for mainline AA once you flow through (no degree required). In the meantime you can apply everywhere else and keep the flow through as an insurance plan so to speak.

I think spirit airlines has a domicile at FLL, not sure how senior it is though.

I believe Norwegian Air is starting in Florida too but work their at your own peril (i.e. any ALPA carrier will most likely not hire you if they're on your CV).

Without a degree little to no chance of your application filtering through to the top for HR to consider you at a legacy. Not saying that it hasn't happened before but only in extremely rare cases. Though this could change in the coming years in your favor.

Amadis of Gaul

12th Jul 2017, 02:04

With a green card but no degree look at Envoy (AA wholly owned regional). Base re-opening in Miami with a flow through to mainline (5-7 years depending on who you ask), MIA is also one of the junior bases for mainline AA once you flow through (no degree required). In the meantime you can apply everywhere else and keep the flow through as an insurance plan so to speak.

I think spirit airlines has a domicile at FLL, not sure how senior it is though.

I believe Norwegian Air is starting in Florida too but work their at your own peril (i.e. any ALPA carrier will most likely not hire you if they're on your CV).

FLL can be had either right out of training or within a few months at NK, depending on vacancies.

Willemvdpol

12th Jul 2017, 13:33

Thanks for the quick info!!

zondaracer

12th Jul 2017, 18:36

Republic is a regional (one of the better ones now), and they have a Miami base which is obtainable after only a few months.

zondaracer

12th Jul 2017, 18:40

You could also look into some ACMI and charter companies. They may consider you without the degree.
Atlas
Miami Air
Centurion Air Cargo
Xtra Airways
Eastern (which was purchased by Swift Air)

havick

12th Jul 2017, 18:44

Republic is a regional (one of the better ones now), and they have a Miami base which is obtainable after only a few months.

But also a contract airline and it appears that the majors are starting bring their flying back in-house to their wholly owned Regionals.

zondaracer

12th Jul 2017, 18:53

But also a contract airline and it appears that the majors are starting bring their flying back in-house to their wholly owned Regionals.

That is true but anything can happen. AA keeps saying that they are bringing more flying in house to their WO, but SkyWest keeps adding more planes on the American Eagle side, so it's not like all of the regional flying is going to stay at the WO.

Also, Allegiant has a FLL base, they may consider you without a degree.

bafanguy

12th Jul 2017, 18:59

Marchisio,

Do you have an FAA license ? I'll guess they all require it.

Omni Air Int'l hiring...home based.

Amerijet ? MIA based...never hear a word about them...not sure what that means. Perhaps I've just missed the news about them ?

Transsonic2000

12th Jul 2017, 22:10

The wife has a job offer in Florida and would really like to go there as she has family living there. So through her I would also get a Greencard allegedly. I'm 35 and work for a British carrier and have 5000hrs on the B737 and about 6000hrs on the B777 (both as First Officer).@ Marchisio:
I understand (to some degree) that your wife likes to go to Florida (why don't let her go and see how things develop, while you stay here). Given the fact that you don't have a degree you'll probably never make it to a legacy carrier, where the big money is and flying for a US Regional till the end of days isn't that thrilling either (compared to what you could make at a legacy carrier). That's like going down a dead-end road, particularly as a non US Citizen without a degree. I believe, at your age (35) and with your experience (B737 and B777 rated, tt 11.500hr) you stand much better career chances here in Europe as you'd do in the States! In five or ten years from now you'll probably be decorated with the fourth stripe on your shoulder and I strongly believe your wife will like it as well, at the latest when she sees the monthly pay check coming in - that'll make her smile (apologies for my sarcasm :\)!!! Well anyway, long story short. As a EU citizen (Pilot) with your experience you stand much better career chances in the EU as compared to the US. Finally, the determining factor/person should be the person who brings home the bigger paycheck and who has the higher occupational qualifications and that's usually the man. Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but I've seen it happen more than once where a person gave up a life-dream (usually flying) in favor for a other person (relationship/marriage) and they all, sooner or later had bitter regrets and said that was one of their biggest lifetime mistakes, as the relationship didn't last anyway! But that's only my personal point of view based on my own experience! I strongly believe you'll make the right decision and best of luck for the future!

Willemvdpol

13th Jul 2017, 04:10

Guys, thanks again!
I do not have an FAA license... Also get the idea that not having finished my degree to go flying will be a problem in time wrt flying for a major.

@Transsonic2000
Of cours this is an option and one we consider... especially loss of seniority is something that doesnt sit well with me. Her pay is really not bad, so maybe there would be the option in the future to relocate and work less, ie commute to Europe once a month on a parttime roster....there are more colleagues that are doing that
Thanks!!!

zondaracer

13th Jul 2017, 05:41

@ Marchisio:
That's like going down a dead-end road, particularly as a non US Citizen without a degree. .... :\)!!! Well anyway, long story short.

The lack of a degree will definitely hinder career progression in the US, but not being a US citizen won't be a factor in most cases.

Having said that, I don't know if he flies for a legacy in Europe or an LCC, etc... that could play a big factor in life decisions. I would not leave British Airways for a regional in the US, for example.

Lastly, everyone loves to hate on the regionals, understandably, but it is possible to have a decent career (although pales in comparison with the majors). There are plenty of guys at the regionals making $150,000+ per annum.

Willemvdpol

13th Jul 2017, 11:00

I work for a European Legacy now on the 777, looking for quite a few more yrs for a command on Longhaul . Command shorthaul is already an option, but not what I went for so far.
Anyways, gonna give it some more thought. We still have a few months to decide. Also I've sort of "stolen" this forum.

bafanguy

23rd Jul 2017, 20:23

pbi,

Yes, there are many outfits here in the USA: Southern, ATI, Dynamic Air Int'l (don't let a little bankruptcy scare ya !), National, USA Jet, ABX, and some I've failed to remember. Many of them don't generate much news.

To address the OP's question, while most carriers here will hire a green card holder (even some airlines you'd actually want to work for), I just don't see carriers with larger airplanes soliciting expats. The regionals are taking Aussies under that special visa deal but that's an unusual arrangement...just a steppingstone for Aussies the same way it's a steppingstone for US citizens...a niche phenomenon.

This country has pilots running out its ears but if expats can find an avenue into the game here...come on in. Welcome to the game.

MaverickPrime

2nd Aug 2017, 12:34

Hi folks, just fishing for answers.

My girlfriend/wife to be has always dreamed of working in the US and she can easily get a job and visa there if she really wanted to. She would then be able to claim a visa for me apparently. Saying all that, if she was to head off to the US it would probably be a year from now at the very least until she would be settled there. I mainly asking these questions for her sake. I don't really care where I live as long as I can make a career as a pilot. She is happy to live in Europe, but its still her dream to be in the USA.

I am very ignorant of aviation in the USA in general, I know very little about it to be honest. My situation currently is that I am 26, UK citizen and a University graduate with Honours degree. I already have my PPL and I am in the middle of my commercial training here in the UK. My plan is to finish training and look for employment in a European airline.

I am aware of the FAA 1500 hour rule, as a rookie that is something that would put me off starting my career in the USA.

Anyhow, can some of the wise and experienced guys give me a rundown on my options if I was to make the move to the USA? What would I need to do/could I do? Would I be better trying to build up a few thousand hours on a 737/320 here in Europe before thinking about the USA?

Thanks

MP

bafanguy

2nd Aug 2017, 13:47

I am aware of the FAA 1500 hour rule, as a rookie that is something that would put me off starting my career in the USA.

MP,

While we wait for the more knowledgeable folks to arrive, I'll just add that the 1500 hour rule applies to FAR Part 121 operators, what you'd recognize as "airlines", i.e., pax, freight. Since it's not a starting point anyway don't be put off by it. FAR Part 135 requires less, the details of which escape me at the moment.

Flight instructing is a frequent (but certainly not the only) starting point and the USA is stretched for CFIs these days. We even have a few organizations conducting training here under EASA but I get the impression getting an EASA instructor ticket is a pretty pricey thing. FAA licenses would quickly become a requirement. Here's just one as an example:

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at CAE Oxford Aviation Academy - Certified Flight Instructors (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Certified+Flight+Instructors/Mesa-Arizona/jobID_404230)

There are others.

One issue from your post involves your lady friend. Can she work anywhere in the USA or will her line of work narrow her choice to a particular geographic area ? The reason I ask is that any entry level spot you might get would most likely require your living where you work vs living where you want and commuting; this may also influence YOUR available choices when/if that time comes.

Good luck in the hunt.

MaverickPrime

3rd Aug 2017, 10:01

MP,

While we wait for the more knowledgeable folks to arrive, I'll just add that the 1500 hour rule applies to FAR Part 121 operators, what you'd recognize as "airlines", i.e., pax, freight. Since it's not a starting point anyway don't be put off by it. FAR Part 135 requires less, the details of which escape me at the moment.

Flight instructing is a frequent (but certainly not the only) starting point and the USA is stretched for CFIs these days. We even have a few organizations conducting training here under EASA but I get the impression getting an EASA instructor ticket is a pretty pricey thing. FAA licenses would quickly become a requirement. Here's just one as an example:

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at CAE Oxford Aviation Academy - Certified Flight Instructors (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Certified+Flight+Instructors/Mesa-Arizona/jobID_404230)

There are others.

One issue from your post involves your lady friend. Can she work anywhere in the USA or will her line of work narrow her choice to a particular geographic area ? The reason I ask is that any entry level spot you might get would most likely require your living where you work vs living where you want and commuting; this may also influence YOUR available choices when/if that time comes.

Good luck in the hunt.

Thanks for the reply!

What sort of pay would you be looking at if you were to started of instructing?

I know you technically need 1500 hours to get into airlines, but in reality what sort of hours would you need before you get anywhere near a 737/320 at a major? I say this not because I care about the type of aircraft, but I think I'm right in saying that the better salaries are at the majors?

Commuting isn't an issue for us. My first job in Europe is most likely not going to be on my doorstep, so we face the same issue as a couple if we live in Europe and we have discussed that factor at length. However her line of work would allow her to work anywhere in the US.

Reverserbucket

3rd Aug 2017, 10:59

Is she in the medical profession by chance? How long after her arrival would she be able to sponsor you to be able to join her? If I recall, she would have to be a citizen to sponsor you for either a K1 or K3 visa and that's a process that takes years (I'm uncertain how a non-US Citizen working in the US on the basis of a non or immigrant visa could sponsor another to work there but would be interested to know). Instructing is not fantastically paid in the US and can be erratic in terms of workload but as suggested, with a minimum of 200 hours instructional experience, you could potentially work at an EASA school such as CTC or CAE or one of the Florida based ATO's, then progress up to the regionals flying a T/P or CRJ then once you have a few thousand hours, up to the majors. With EU experience on CS25 types however, you could bypass the instructing and regionals.

I think I'd do a bit of research on the path to US immigration though as it's not as straightforward as your wife to be suggests. Might be quicker to find a US girlfriend perhaps and marry her? :}