The end for VA?

[Donald Trump]

My friends in Australia have just potentially sold out Australian airlines. So how long until the Chinese off load their shareholding now that they don't need VA?

I've been dealing with China for many years, and until the Western world understands how ruthless China is, we will keep losing. This is not putting Australian airlines first.

At least now there will be even more commuting contracts available for Australian pilots. Now if the ME3 offer Australian bases...

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/12/australia-signs-open-a-skies-agreement-with-china/

- - -
"Make Aviation Great Again"

[tail wheel]

“We have also liberalised traffic rights and code share arrangements, which are important for Australian airlines,” Chester said.

“This will enable Australian and Chinese airlines to service destinations between and beyond both countries, and will allow them to take full advantage of their cooperative arrangements with their commercial alliance partners."

Come now Mr Trump! Rather than your wild assumption, does the article not suggest that in effect, Virgin may be very well placed to profit through it's Chinese partners?

[Metro man]

Chinese passengers will be flying on Chinese airlines. This is as big a win for them as the EK/QF agreement was for Emirates.

The Australian based airlines will pick up a few crumbs.

[neville_nobody]

It will only be an issue if the Australian Government does something really daft like grant 5th Freedom Rights or allows Chinese Airlines to fly domestically.

[wheels_down]

No restrictions on Domestic, the Chinese could operate if they wanted to. Think Tiger Airways Australia etc...

No Sydney slots available so not sure why anyone would bother.

[Logohu]

The Australian government is clearly more interested in bringing in more Chinese tourists and their dollars, than protecting the interests of the Australian airline industry.
With SYD and other major airports already slot constrained expect to see lots more Chinese carriers popping up in places like Canberra, Cairns and Gold Coast soon

[Tuck Mach]

Australia has been hollowed out, Australia may have ANZUS but the current crop of 'politicians' are making the bed we as a nation will lay in. If it was only $1,700 for the Chinese to influence one little fella in the Senate, imagine what really goes on?

There is no way an Australian airline privatised and struggling can compete with the hordes of airlines heading south. Soft power is being pushed in our region from an authoritarian regime and no one in an elected capacity could care less..:(

[Berealgetreal]

No restrictions on Domestic, the Chinese could operate if they wanted to.

Can you expand on this. (I'm no expert).

My understanding is that the Chinese interest in Virgin is access to the domestic Aus market through Virgin.

Maybe I've got it completely wrong but my interpretation was that the lifting of restrictions was a benefit for Virgin - more pax on carriage and potentially more to unlimited wide body slots.

As I said, Im no expert and happy to be corrected.

[Goat Whisperer]

VA is planning on launching HKG flights mid 2017. Hong Kong is not affected by the liberalisation, and the HK end of the bilaterals are all taken up.

[maggot]

Can you expand on this. (I'm no expert).

My understanding is that the Chinese interest in Virgin is access to the domestic Aus market through Virgin.

Maybe I've got it completely wrong but my interpretation was that the lifting of restrictions was a benefit for Virgin - more pax on carriage and potentially more to unlimited wide body slots.

As I said, Im no expert and happy to be corrected.

Its simple, no foreign restrictions on operating a domestic airline.
Anyone, from anywhere may try

International is a different story as it involves state treaties etc

[Berealgetreal]

Hmm in that case yes it could be the end.

Thorough consultation process yet again from the government.. NOT

[Tommy Bahama]

Can you expand on this. (I'm no expert).

My understanding is that the Chinese interest in Virgin is access to the domestic Aus market through Virgin.

Maybe I've got it completely wrong but my interpretation was that the lifting of restrictions was a benefit for Virgin - more pax on carriage and potentially more to unlimited wide body slots.

As I said, Im no expert and happy to be corrected.
Exactly unlimited wide body slots......Virgin International's earning potential just fell off a cliff.

Do you think the Chinese behemoths are going to sit back and let Virgin take all the gravy now its open slather?

Virgin are pretty good at denial but even for them this must be tough......Good luck going up against Air China,China Southern/Eastern and probably even their own sponsors....

The rules have changed with China and its going to get very interesting and expensive.

[Ken Borough]

VA is planning on launching HKG flights mid 2017

If that's the case, surely they'd already have announced their schedules? The travel industry requires a lot of lead time to set up packages etc etc. VA can always sell 'subject to Government approval"!

[framer]

Might be good for some pilots. If you currently fly something that has the legs to get to China I imagine a Melbourne or Brissy home base might be on the cards with roster options commensurate with pay package.
The Chinese are becoming more and more progressive with their lifestyle options in an attempt to attract experienced pilots. One outfit is offering nine different roster options to get Captains to fly out of China. I can imagine a roster flying two returns a month for wages similar to what the big Aus carriers are paying for tougher rosters. This would allow the Chinese to keep their guys on the narrow bodies and reduce the massive wages they are paying to expats.

[BPA]

Next years slots for HKG were only released to the airlines a few weeks back (yes VA were allocated slots). Once the slots are released the airlines then have period where they can swap slots with each other, this is happening now. Once this period is complete VA will be in a position to release their schedule.

[Ken Borough]

BPA,

Slots don't have to be resolved before schedules are released. Many airlines take bookings 12 months in advance, and long before slots are settled.

[Metro man]

This would allow the Chinese to keep their guys on the narrow bodies and reduce the massive wages they are paying to expats.

Actually the best terms for expats in China are on the A320, closely followed by the B787. The Airbus is a workhorse and you will be flogged to death but well paid. Worst pay is on the B777 as the local Pilots got promoted onto that fleet from the narrow bodies reducing the demand for foreigners.

There is NO interview for foreigners with Chinese airlines, if you pass the written, medical and checkride then you have a job.

[framer]

That's what I meant Metro, reduce the massive wages they are paying to the expat narrow body guys.

[Open Descent]

Curious.

If this is for whom the bell tolls stuff for VA, why haven't we heard them complaining about it? Same can be said about QF, who it must be said regularly take umbrage at the mere suggestion of being disadvantaged?

[havick]

That's what I meant Metro, reduce the massive wages they are paying to the expat narrow body guys.

Why do that?

[Tommy Bahama]

Curious.

If this is for whom the bell tolls stuff for VA, why haven't we heard them complaining about it? Same can be said about QF, who it must be said regularly take umbrage at the mere suggestion of being disadvantaged?

Because to fix a problem you have to admit there is one and Virgin never do that. You could also assume both carriers PR machines would be working flat out trying to work out how to put a positive spin on this so their workers don't get confused.....

[ebt]

It's wrong to assume that the market will become flooded by Chinese carriers. Beijing doesn't like their carriers competing directly with one another, so not everyone is allowed onto the Shanghai and Beijing route. Virgin, on the other hand, has the rights to Beijing, which is what appeals to HNA Group. They can link into Hainan Airlines/Capital Airlines' massive hub in Beijing, and only have Qantas and Air China to compete with.

This agreement will open up new city pairs, and it will be the Chinese carriers going nuts, but that's all good for Australia's domestic carriers.

[KABOY]

Beijing doesn't like their carriers competing directly with one another, so not everyone is allowed onto the Shanghai and Beijing route

Pudong(Shanghai) is being serviced by MU, CA and QF. Once the bilateral air agreements are established it becomes the domain of the airport operator as to who can operate there. Shanghai is not a large hub for AC, PVG is a base for MU. I don't think Beijing will restrict who operates into these ports now with the explosion of new Chinese carriers.

[Gnadenburg]

That's what I meant Metro, reduce the massive wages they are paying to the expat narrow body guys.

Massive wages to who? $300,000 USD is not a particularly big wage and I expect more wage pressure in China.

[neville_nobody]

Massive wages to who? $300,000 USD is not a particularly big wage and I expect more wage pressure in China.

That just over Au$400, 000!! If you think that 400k is 'not a particularly big wage' then I would suggest you are delusional. Check out the list of highest earners just published by the ATO.

http://www.afr.com/leadership/careers/australias-top-50-highest-paying-jobs-20161204-gt3uzx

To earn over 400K you are either going to have a business of your own, or you are going to be a specialist doctor. Judges don't even crack 400K. If you look at the ATO data set the majority of Air Transport Professionals fall into the sub $180k bracket. The average of the higher pilot income bracket is around 250k

[neville_nobody]

Not arguing about what Pilots are worth here just saying that 400K is a massive salary by society standards. Then also think about how hard it is to become one of those professions. You are going to be in the top percentile academically already then spend about 15 years of your life studying.

[framer]

Massive wages to who? $300,000 USD is not a particularly big wage and I expect more wage pressure in China.
Fair enough. We obviously have different ideas about what big wages are for narrow bodies.
300k USD net is massive for a 737 skipper where I'm from.

[TBM-Legend]

Judges cannot kill 400 people at once. pilots get paid for that responsibility.

Air Traffic Controllers can kill double that number so I guess salaries are based on killing potential! The Captain of a nuclear ballistic missile sub can kill million. Wow what's his salary??

[B772]

The Ovation of the Seas is in Australian waters at present. Maximum number of passengers is 4,905 plus around 2,500 crew. I wonder what the Captains salary is.

[havick]

I just don't understand why anyone would advocate cutting wages at all. Any upwards pressure on wages in some form helps to drive wages elsewhere by ripple effect.

[MACH082]

TBM legend, pilots are there getting paid more than the ATCers to protect the 400 odd pax. ATC has never killed a passenger. It's the pilots that let one through the keeper if ATC make a mistake and the pilots don't pick it up.

Just saying.

[Stubby]

That just over Au$400, 000!! If you think that 400k is 'not a particularly big wage' then I would suggest you are delusional. Check out the list of highest earners just published by the ATO.

Australia's top 50 highest paying jobs | afr.com (http://www.afr.com/leadership/careers/australias-top-50-highest-paying-jobs-20161204-gt3uzx)

To earn over 400K you are either going to have a business of your own, or you are going to be a specialist doctor. Judges don't even crack 400K. If you look at the ATO data set the majority of Air Transport Professionals fall into the sub $180k bracket. The average of the higher pilot income bracket is around 250k

Completely agree, ridiculous to suggest that 300k + isn't a big wage (responsibility or not)..,,

[The Bullwinkle]

To earn over 400K you are either going to have a business of your own, or you are going to be a specialist doctor.
Or be the CEO of a failing Australian airline..........

[Gnadenburg]

A 300,000 USD "package" may seem a lot to a low cost Australian pilot but it isn't really big money by international standards as a pilot and especially not an expat.

Legacy pilots in the states and other parts of Asia were making in excess of this a decade ago.

It's a package remember. Could include anything and I haven't cared to look. Also, the current $USD/AUD exchange rate may be relevant here but for many it is not. 300K USD is just that.

There's talk that the money is going to have to increase further.

[morno]

I thought I worked with the worlds most arrogant guy. Turns out he's a champion compared to you Gnads man :ugh:

[Donald Trump]

Friends, it's time to get back on topic. We all know there is a pilot shortage (and a forum for it), talk to the source of those in recruitment if you doubt that.

VA is losing pilots and about to lose many many more. The leaders at this airline (and country) remind me of Hilary and her cronies, the game has changed. The establishment is over, very over folks. And until they adapt, stop talking fluff and lining their pockets and start putting Australian pilots first it's over.

What does this government decision mean for VA A330 expansion plans? Are the Chinese doing what they do best and putting China first? What is the future for VA? In my opinion, this government decision is not making aviation great again in Australia.

- - -
"Make Aviation Great Again"

[Metro man]

If you want an example of excessive pay, then look at the rate of increase for CEOs over the last decade or two.

[Gnadenburg]

I thought I worked with the worlds most arrogant guy. Turns out he's a champion compared to you Gnads man

I've been about long enough and my advice to you is, snap out of a low cost mindset. It's professionally ugly and helps nobody.

[airdualbleedfault]

300 or 400, either way a great income if you don't have to live in a polluted, overcrowded 5hithole I reckon

[Tommy Bahama]

* Fallout stretches from Delta in U.S. to Korean Air in Asia

* China “hardly scratching the surface” of its potential: CAPA


Killing four empty hours at Guangzhou airport waiting for a China Southern connection to Sydney may not be everyone’s idea of fun. For Gina Capella, it was a no-brainer.

The 43-year-old Boston resident and her friend saved hundreds of dollars last year choosing China Southern Airlines Co. over a direct flight from Seoul with Korean Air Lines Co. or Asiana Airlines Inc. “We didn’t mind the layover because it was so much cheaper,” she said. “Like, almost half the price.”

Chinese airlines are flooding the world with some of the lowest long-haul fares ever seen -- and delivering a hammer blow to foreign carriers trying to keep up. From Delta Air Lines Inc. and American Airlines Group Inc. in the U.S., to Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and Korean Air, many operators are feeling the squeeze from the extended reach of mainland Chinese carriers.

They don’t just offer cheap fares on routes long-dominated by national airlines like Korean Air. They’re also adding hundreds of overseas flights from little-known Chinese cities to airports all over the world.

“Chinese airlines are still hardly scratching the surface of their potential, not just in China, but globally,” said Will Horton, a Hong Kong-based analyst at the CAPA Centre for Aviation. “If an airline today cannot compete with or grow alongside a Chinese airline, the future will be bleak.”

According to CAPA, mainland Chinese airlines have opened 75 long-haul markets since 2006, led by Air China Ltd. and Hainan Airlines Co. More than two-thirds of those routes opened only in the past two years. China’s three biggest carriers -- Air China, China Eastern Airlines Corp. and China Southern -- are state-controlled and listed in Hong Kong and Shanghai.

Cathay, where first-half profit sank 82 percent as Chinese travelers bypassed its Hong Kong base, is now conducting what it calls a “critical review” of its business.

Delta President Glen Hauenstein told analysts in October that China “continues to be challenged” as capacity growth outpaces demand. American Airlines President Robert D. Isom said the same month there’s “continued weakness in China” as excess capacity seeps into the airline’s new services from Los Angeles to Hong Kong, Haneda, Sydney and Auckland.

A round trip with China Eastern between New York and Bangkok, via Shanghai, costs $570.06, according to Webjet.com. The same trip with United Airlines through Hong Kong costs $714.80. Flying from Los Angeles to Hong Kong with China Airlines is one third cheaper than with American Airlines.

“U.S. airlines dominated the China-U.S. route in the past, but now it’s the Chinese airlines,” said Chen Suming, an analyst at Shanghai Chongyang Investment Management Co. “Most of the new air travelers are from China, not the U.S.”

China Southern is selling flights from Sydney to Seoul, via Guangzhou, for $588.30. That’s more than one third cheaper than flying direct with Qantas Airways Ltd. Getting from London to Hanoi in Vietnam, also via Guangzhou, costs just $830 with China Southern. British Airways Plc charges $1,216.50.

Price isn’t everything. Cathay and Singapore Airlines Ltd. both have a five-star rating for product and service from airline rating system Skytrax. Hainan Airlines Co. is the only mainland Chinese carrier among the world’s nine top-rated airlines. National carrier Air China has three stars.

There’s little sign the inundation will end. International air routes in China jumped 35 percent to 660 last year, the Civil Aviation Administration of China said. By 2021, Chinese will be the top overseas visitors to the U.S., according to the U.S. government.

For years, the easiest way to get to a second- or third-tier city on the Chinese mainland was to fly to long-established transit centers such as Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing and then take a local connection. Now a new world order is emerging. Chinese carriers in these cities are sidestepping hubs such as Singapore and Hong Kong and flying straight to destinations abroad. That poses the biggest threat to airlines such as Cathay and Singapore Air.

This month, Hainan started flying non-stop to Las Vegas from Beijing, its 10th route to North America. Hainan, controlled by billionaire Chen Feng, also operates at least eight flights to European cities. Meanwhile, British Airways is halting its London-Chengdu service in January because it’s not viable.



Underlying Desire

Demographics partly explains the proliferation of flights from China and the lop-sided, mainly-Chinese flow of passengers. Chengdu has a population of more than 14 million. Even the population of Xiamen, on China’s southeast coast across from Taiwan, is nearing Sydney’s 4.3 million.

“While it might not work for foreign carriers to fly to second-tier cities like Chengdu and Xiamen, it will still work for the Chinese because the originating market is very big,” said K. Ajith, an analyst at UOB Kay Hian Pte in Singapore. “There’s an underlying desire to travel.”

That’s borne out in forecasts for new aircraft. Chinese airlines will need 6,810 new planes valued at $1 trillion in the next two decades to meet travel demand, according to Boeing Co.

Meanwhile, U.S. airlines are seeking to bolster ties with Chinese carriers. Delta invested $450 million in China Eastern in July 2015 for a 3.6 percent stake. United Continental Holdings Inc. this year signed a deal with Air China to improve connections and enhance frequent flier benefits between the airlines.

To be sure, rising fuel prices, spurred by OPEC’s production cuts in November, may hold back some of the overseas expansion by China Southern and China Eastern, said Ajith, the analyst at UOB Kay Hian.

“They’re profitable, they’ve had good cost control and they’ve benefited from low fuel prices,” he said. “The only issue is what happens when fuel prices rise?’’ At that point, they may switch resources to domestic routes, where they have more price control, he said.

While capacity growth on routes between the U.S. and Shanghai, Beijing or Guangzhou has been “off the charts,” Chinese airlines have “maxed out” under the current bilateral agreement, said Kris Kelley, an airline analyst at Janus Capital Management.

All the same, Australia’s government announced on Dec. 4 an agreement with China to remove all capacity restrictions between the two nations. In October, Britain agreed to double the number of flights between U.K. cities and China.

Chinese airlines are improving their business class, too, giving them confidence to compete around the world, according to Horton, the analyst at CAPA. With every new generation of aircraft, that level of service only improves, he said.

[Oakape]

Price isn’t everything. Cathay and Singapore Airlines Ltd. both have a five-star rating for product and service from airline rating system Skytrax. Hainan Airlines Co. is the only mainland Chinese carrier among the world’s nine top-rated airlines. National carrier Air China has three stars.


No mention of safety. Do people really think all airlines in the world are equally safe? Funny how they mainly shop on price alone (despite what the quote states) & then scream & sob (if they are still alive) when it all goes horribly wrong.

[27/09]

No mention of safety. Do people really think all airlines in the world are equally safe? Funny how they mainly shop on price alone (despite what the quote states) & then scream & sob (if they are still alive) when it all goes horribly wrong.

It's also hard to fathom why people don't ask why it's so much cheaper? There has to be a reason for the price difference, rarely do some bother to think why. Many parts of the equation are fixed for all operators, airways fees, airport fees, aircraft purchase/lease costs, fuel etc, so to have a major price difference has to mean more than just the salary of the staff.

[Weary traveller]

Morno... "I thought I worked with the worlds most arrogant guy. Turns out he's a champion compared to you Gnads man"

Not sure where you get the 'arrogance' inclination from. Gnads is being pragmatic from where I'm looking. Sure 300k isn't a bad wage but as an expat pilot making significantly more than that I can assure you it isn't a massive wage. Not bad by aviation standards down there but not a massive wage. Don't sell yourself short.

[Bluewhine]

I'm always interested how other airlines are going you know like air Canada, eh!, air New Zealand and tiger etc, I suppose it's better than reporting loses and a shrinking network at VA

[TBM-Legend]

VA very slow paying creditors right now...

At least one overseas leasing show way behind on rentals...

[Snakecharma]

TBM - how exactly would you know that with any level of certainty?

[The Bullwinkle]

TBM - how exactly would you know that with any level of certainty?
I think that's common knowledge.

[Snakecharma]

I think we think it is the case but whether it is true is a completely different matter.

I have heard so many rumours told with absolute conviction and certainty that I know for a fact were bull**** that when someone says something that they cannot possibly know for sure to be the case then i get suspicious.

Let's face it, there would be a small circle in VA finance that would know who is getting paid what - and they wouldn't blab for fear of getting the arse, the individual leasing companies would know but they wouldn't blab in case it started a loss of confidence that sent the business into greater financial difficulty - meaning they would be even less likely to get their dough - so they wouldn't blab and if it was really true they would come in and grab their aeroplanes. Look back to compass I or II and see how quickly the lessors moved.

I don't doubt they are stretching their payment terms out and many many business do the same - not uncommon to see business run in 90 day accounts payable - it sucks for those that are owed the money but not all that uncommon.

[TBM-Legend]

My source is impeccable. The head of a leasing company I've known for 20 years...they're on a very very slow drip.

Where did all the dosh go that has been poured in in the last year or so??

[Icarus2001]

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/154f8d2693b28ba6dfb0cedd18c3dfb9

[MACH082]

Why is there so much spite for VA? I don't work for them, but surely trying to scare 1000+ Pilots this time of year is just bloody cruel?

They'll come good and the naysayers will be foretelling QFs demise again while JB is the golden haired boy.

[chookcooker]

Why is there so much spite for VA? I don't work for them, but surely trying to scare 1000+ Pilots this time of year is just bloody cruel?

They'll come good and the naysayers will be foretelling QFs demise again while JB is the golden haired boy.

Because that's TBM's M.O. The slightest bit on negative news about VA and he gets wind burn running to the keyboard to partake in some schadenfreude.
Pathetic.

[B772]

Virgin America has fallen to Alaska Airlines. It will take some time before the two airlines are on the one operating certificate. Virgin America tickets go on sale within the Alaska website later today 19/12/16

[Berealgetreal]

Well a few years back it was Alan Joyce and QF that would get a pasting here. Since then their share price as tripled.

[PoppaJo]

Any word on the delayed 737 AOC for Tiger? CASA must be on its well deserved extended Xmas break no green light till early next year apparently.

[Icarus2001]

Competition regulator issues draft determination rejecting proposed Virgin Australia-Alliance Airlines charter partnership

Competition regulator issues draft determination rejecting proposed Virgin Australia-Alliance Airlines charter partnership | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/12/competition-regulator-issues-draft-determination-rejecting-proposed-virgin-australia-alliance-airlines-charter-partnership/)

This will have an impact on their plans.

[TWOTBAGS]

Any word on the delayed 737 AOC for Tiger? CASA must be on its well deserved extended Xmas break no green light till early next year apparently

Yep.... it doesn't matter how many ex-CASA big wigs they hire to push the process, its only going to happen when the bureaucracy lets you.

:E

[MONK]

Hey Donald Trump...

Why don't you just build a wall and keep the chinese out?....and oh....and make them pay for it...

[Donald Trump]

Friends, it is now official. The crooked far left's attempt to undermine democracy in my country and promote widespread civil unrest by attempting to influence the electoral vote has failed.

Interestingly like clockwork, we can resume reporting on terrorist attacks now that I will become the next president of the United States of America. The civilized world must change their thinking! This politically sensitive topic is destroying airlines and if not tackled head on, no body will want to fly.

MONK, I have thought of building a wall to keep the Chinese out; it would be a structure of beauty and greatness. A Great Wall if you will.

"Make Aviation Great Again"

[Tommy Bahama]

Business Insider Australia have an interesting article from Dec 8 on Virgin's new safety video.

Virgin Australia's new safety video featuring a Supercar racing around Bathurst is a bit weird | Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/virgin-australias-new-safety-video-featuring-a-supercar-racing-around-bathurst-is-a-bit-weird-2016-12)

The bogans may love it but I doubt granny does. From a business perspective it does seem a rather strange thing to do...Don't really think you could call Virgin "high performance" either.


After watching it for the first time all I can say is "Good God what were they and that Captain thinking?"

[Captain Dart]

Naming an airline after a person who's never had sex is a bit weird as well isn't it? Jeeze, I miss Ansett (pre-'that year'). Ansett. Now, that's a name.

[Ken Borough]

Is it any wonder that many can't be bothered watching the safety demos? As Safety is a serious matter, it's not very smart to make light of it. VA's video will, no doubt, attract attention but will the 'guests' take note of the serious message? Score: 0/10

[The Baron]

Have to agree with Ken. The worst I have ever seen. The fact that the safety equipment is completely out of context should make it almost impossible for anyone that can't speak English understand where and what to do at a critical time.

[Berealgetreal]

Does it get people to watch? Yes
Does it help advertising? Yes
Do I like it? Who cares what I think but I suspect they've achieved what they wanted.

[1a sound asleep]

Dramas unfolding over in the UAE that may well impact VA. One of the airlines sunk enormous money into Air Berlin and Alitalia and is now about to dump 3000 of their own staff. The other UAE entity has even bigger problems.

[framer]

I like it. Well done.

[Fonz121]

The irony of that video is it that it does a decent job of advertising every company BUT Virgin.

[Octane]

They should have studied the ANZ safety videos, they are very well done...

[Tommy Bahama]

From Australian Aviation

Six Chinese carriers that fly to Australia plan to work together to boost the number of tourists travelling between the two countries.

On Tuesday, Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, Hainan Airlines, Sichuan Airlines and Xiamen Air signed a memorandum of understanding at the launch of the China-Australia Year of Tourism 2017 program of events in Sydney on Tuesday.

“The agreement will see the airlines not only taking a coordinated approach towards increasing capacity between China and Australia but will also see them joining together in tourism marketing and promotional activities,” the China National Tourist Office said in a statement.

[AerialPerspective]

No restrictions on Domestic, the Chinese could operate if they wanted to. Think Tiger Airways Australia etc...

No Sydney slots available so not sure why anyone would bother.
Um, not really. They would have to obtain an Australian or NZ AOC and operate under ANZA rules but I think there's a little more to it than that, even the domestic operation would have to be (while foreign owned) set up with the principle operational personnel and executives domiciled in Australia - i.e. within the legal reach of CASA and Australian Law. So, it's not that easy really. The best bet is for a major Chinese carrier to take a 10% stake in Qantas Airways and as Qantas is quite large but not as large or on the scale of the Chinese carriers, the small amount of traffic it would receive would probably be large by QF standards and contribute to viability. China is still developing, I'm not convinced their aviation sector is as rigorous and stable as major western countries so while I hope it doesn't happen, any sort of major incident will probably drive even Chinese nationals into the arms of QF, VA and NZ. Of course, none of us would want that to happen because of such an incident but Americans still love Qantas and Virgin Australia... even if many Australians don't think QF is that good, they are miles ahead of US carriers which is why they are making lots of money on the Pacific.

[AerialPerspective]

Because to fix a problem you have to admit there is one and Virgin never do that. You could also assume both carriers PR machines would be working flat out trying to work out how to put a positive spin on this so their workers don't get confused.....
Not sure I entirely agree... QF did say there was a problem... (yes, of course there was a tax advantage in it for them but any public company wouldn't pass over that if it was available) such as profitability of certain business units and value of depreciated assets massively overvalued due to currency fluctuations since they were purchased (747s). They made the write down and they enacted changes to reduce costs, etc. and within 18 months they are massively profitable (yes, the fuel price had some impact but it was available to all carriers)... the difference is at VA, they say there's a problem, then borrow more money, in the last case allegedly to pay back borrowed money (and somehow that's going to improve their capital position??? Capital is cash essentially so how does debt do that... anyway) and keep saying after every loss (5 years now) the well worn line of profit being 'just around the corner'. Hate Joyce or love him, the media has had it out for him and they have fawned all over the mail room boy and I'm sorry but AJ has delivered, MRB has not. So, agree, VA don't admit there's a problem but I'm not sure that applies to QF as well.

[AerialPerspective]

Naming an airline after a person who's never had sex is a bit weird as well isn't it? Jeeze, I miss Ansett (pre-'that year'). Ansett. Now, that's a name.
VA falls into financial oblivion, government has no choice but to prop them up, buy out the overseas owners and put creditors on a slow drip... ala Air NZ in 2001/2, government pound of flesh is to clean out senior management with immediate effect... bring in new CEO. Bob Ansett is chosen and he agrees but points out with the collapse, VA name is now not viable, he will accept half the salary they offer on one condition... Ansett Australia is re-born... LOL

[Ollie Onion]

That video bores me to tears, as with a few of the Air NZ videos it is just too long! I remember I was paxing around alot on Air NZ when the 'Hobbit' safety video was in, I must of seen it twice a week for about 4 months, the first time was amusing then after that I just ignored it as it went on and on. There is a very fine balance at getting the safety message across, Air NZ has had a few successes but probably more failures.