French aircraft late 1940s

[effortless]

Bit of a discussion about a casualty in 48. Anyone know what we sold or gave to the French to help build up their airforce? The family insist we sold them some death traps.

[treadigraph]

Meteors and Vampires - and Sud Est built quite a few Vampires as Mistrals.

[Wander00]

How long did 346 and 347 keep the Stirlings going?

[WHBM]

French Navy took 19 Sunderland flying boats. They outlasted those in RAF service, ending in 1962. Both the Hendon and Duxford museum aircraft are from this French fleet, masquerading as RAF ones.

French Air Force had a few Avro Yorks as well. One was De Gaulle's personal aircraft.

[Octane]

The also had Lancasters in a maritime recon role I believe. One of them now resides in the Museum of Transport and Technology in Auckland, NZ. Gifted by the French in the '60s

[greybeard]

There is another one in the RAAF Museum at Bull Creek in Western Australia which had France Maritime history.

:ok:

[DaveReidUK]

Bit of a discussion about a casualty in 48.

Care to elaborate ? If you don't know the type, how about date and location ?

[VictorGolf]

Isn't the East Kirkby Lancaster, hopefully to become airworthy, a French example?

[treadigraph]

Victorgolf, Just Jane is indeed a former Aeronavale aircraft.


Apparently we also supplied some Canberras to France, never knew that!

[Arthur Bellcrank]

Apparently we also supplied some Canberras to France, never knew that!


Four B.6s and two B(I)6s ordered by Armiee de l'Air in 1954. Used for trials work, the first three aircraft were diverted from RAF orders, F763 (ex-WJ763), F779 (ex-RAF WJ779) and F784 (ex-RAF WJ784). The remainder were new-build airframes, F304, F316 and F318.
Picture shows preserved F763 in 2004 at MAE Dugny.


Source CANBERRA FOREIGN OPERATORS (http://www.bywat.co.uk/types02.html)

[DaveReidUK]

Apparently we also supplied some Canberras to France, never knew that!

http://pyperpote.tonsite.biz/listinmaeu/images/stories/ListinMAE/appareils/canberra763/canberra763%20(1).jpg

[noflynomore]

Apparently we also supplied some Canberras to France, never knew that!
And then had to fly the Bristol 188 (?) 1000mph record in French airspace due to British Bureaucratic Bull**** (UK insurance Co's wouldn't insure the record attempt for less than £1000 per flight, French ones did so for £40 for the entire programme. Go figure who was working for whom!) and UK, handed a blinding World Record, subsequently declined to develop the design as a fighter but one M Dassault had been watching matters very very carefully from his front window.

And then produced the Mirage...After Mirage. After Mirage. After Mirage. Bt the 000s.

What a scandalous, unbelievably irresponsible screw-up!

[treadigraph]

And then had to fly the Bristol 188 (?)

Peter Twiss and the Fairey Delta it was...

[PAG]

http://www.frenchwings.net/navy/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_seafire_1F_213_dr_phph.jpg

We bought quite a lot of seafires and you gave us an aircraft carrier also, I can't remember which one

[Arthur Bellcrank]

The French Army requisitioned Bristol 170 freighters from Air Vietnam for use during the battle of Dien Bien Phu, they were needed due to the lifting capability to take Chaffees tanks into the besieged valley


The tanks, transferred to Dien Bien Phu, were dismantled at the Gia Lam base in Hanoi by the men of the 2nd Armor Repair Company of the Foreign Legion (2e Compagnie de Reparations d’Engines Blindés Legion Etrangére), who managed to separate them into 180 pieces. In order to transport the largest pieces, the French had to borrow Bristol 170 Freighter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Freighter) planes from Air Vietnam – these were the largest planes, capable of landing at Dien Bien Phu. In the end however, it turned out that even so, the hull of the Chaffee was 150kg heavier than what the Freighter could carry – in order to actually fly over the mountains in the Tonkin region, the plane was stripped of all the unnecessary parts. They made it, but just barely. The operation to transfer the tanks was called Rondelle II and begun on 16.12.1953. In order to get the tanks going as fast as possible, the men of the 2nd ARCFL (reinforced by specialists from 1er Battalion de Réparations du Materiél from Saigon) did set up their shop straight at the Dien Bien Phu air strip. Two days later, first two tanks landed – albeit disassembled – on the Dien Bien Phu strip and their assembly was initiated immediately. Transporting the tanks took until the end of December 1953, for each tank, 2 Freighter trips and 6 C-47 trips were needed.
Quote from "Chaffees at Dien Bien Phu"

[DaveReidUK]

you gave us an aircraft carrier also, I can't remember which one

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/images/europe/r95-1.jpg

Arromanches, formerly HMS Colossus. I don't think we gave it to you for free, though. :O

[effortless]

Thanks chaps, it's a daughter who's father died when she was 18months. She is about 70 now. Fairly sure it was 3december 1948. Family legend is that uk sold some frames that weren't renowned for reliability. I believe that he spent time in Morrocco at the outbreak but it's hard to get fact from family fiction.

[Rosevidney1]

At the risk of thread drift... Can anyone recommend a book preferably in the English language about French aircraft of the 1940s and 50s please?

[TCU]

Rosevidney1....not quite a book, but I've yet to be disappointed by the weird and wonderful discoveries of this website

Aircraft Directory: France (http://www.aviastar.org/air/france/index.php)

[Rosevidney1]

Thank you kind Sir! :-)

[WHBM]

Air Britain did a book (in English), probably in the 1970s, about French post-WW2 transport aircraft, spanning from designs developed during the war to the first Airbus.

Notable in it is the number of poor designs that just did not sell, even within France, and the sheer number of "whitetails" that were built but little used, or foisted off on the military after standing a good while. The Sud Languedoc, meant to be the main post-war commercial aircraft within Europe, looked like something from the mid-1930s. Air France were saved however by being allowed to purchase a significant number of ex-USAF DC4s, followed by being almost the first users, along with BEA, of the Viscount.

French Engines followed a similar strand, the main manufacturer was Gnome-Rhone, but a number of types only made it into production after these were replaced by Pratt & Whitneys.