How long will the Government ignore an important Forsyth recommendation re ASICs?

[Dick Smith]

I have recently sent the attached (http://rosiereunion.com/file/DSMinister%20ASICs.pdf) letter to the Minister. It will be interesting to see the answer.

[YPJT]

Would be interesting if we could read the letter.

[aroa]

Unfortunately we wont last that long...biology is against us.

There are plenty of other ASRR things that will never be addressed either.

[Band a Lot]

Echo Victor Echo Romeo.

[Frank Arouet]

I wouldn't mind reading the letter either. This happened before. Obviously my own doing, but I'll try to pick it up as the thread progresses.

[Pinky the pilot]

Even if we could read the letter, I will hazard an answer to Dick's question re any answer from the Government by saying the following;

Can anyone give me a definite example where any Government has ever accepted/acted upon any recommendation re absolutely anything which was subject to any Government enquiry/Royal Commission??:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Cynical....who....me?????:confused::confused:

[Lead Balloon]

I think the moderators have to confirm that a linked PDF document doesn't have any electronic, defamatory or sensitive nasties in it, before it's made available for download from PPRuNe.

In any event, the answer to your question, Dick, is: The government didn't pay any attention or care about the recommendation in the first place. :ok:

[tail wheel]

Yes, weird system. No notification is sent to Moderators.

I think it is now "approved" and all can open and read Dick's letter??

[Lead Balloon]

Yes. (Affirm, to meet post length minima...)

[tail wheel]

..........................................
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................................ :ok: ...............

[YPJT]

Dick,

Please let me start by saying I am in no way a fan of the totality of the ASIC regime as it stands, however I'm afraid to say that I think your horse has well and truly bolted. The Dept has just gone through a fairly lengthy regulatory change wrt ASICs and there was certainly no shortage of well documented consultative meetings. Sadly and as I have lamented previously on these pages, GA and the pilot fraternity in general were poorly (read not at all) represented.

The SRAs that you refer to in your letter are largely confined to security Cat 1 and 2 and some Cat 3 airports. The removal of the requirement outside SRAs was also strongly supported by some of the airport operators, but this one was never going to get off the ground with the regulator.

Recent changes in the terrorism threat levels I suggest would give ministers very little appetite to take any action that could be perceived as reducing the security outcome.

[Supermouse3]

along the same lines as the AOPA Eureka report being ignored?
I haven't heard any response to it? But then i do live under a rock...

issuing of ASIC's probably turns a tidy profit!

[Old Akro]

ASIC cards were introduced as a response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Some may recall that a light aircraft flew into the Pirelli tower in Milan at about the same time, which heightened concerns.

Once again, many will recall that the introduction of ASIC cards was completely botched and the requirement to have them was introduced before there was the capability to issue them. Aviation ID in Merimbula filled the vacuum.

At the time the FAA made a report into the terrorism threat posed by GA. They wrote a detailed report that (from memory) was 60 pages long. It took each segment of GA and analysed the risks of each. Training, private flying, charter, freight, ag, etc. The report concluded that except for a risk of ag aircraft being used for a biological agent attack, that there was little risk posed by GA. They introduced some controls for ag flying, but the rest of GA was untouched.

By contrast, CASA wrote a report that covered maybe 3 pages and treated GA as a single activity with no recognition of the different risks posed by different segments. And from this scant analysis we got airport fences and ASIC cards.

The fences added millions of dollars cost to airports. ASIC cards add to the cost of private flying. And commercially, the requirement for a student pilot to have an ASIC before commencing training hurt the flying schools significantly. I am told a prospective pilot can no longer go from a TIF straight into training.

And all of this cost and inconvenience was based on a brief superficial review of the threat of terrorists to GA.

Now we have a government commissioned report saying the regulatory impact of ASIC caqrds is significant and that there is no justification for the current ASIC requirements for GA.

There is now a number of empires built around ASIC cards and airport securitry and a number of public service mandarins benefiting. But the minister needs to grow a pair and return us to a common sense approach.

[Frank Arouet]

Dick. Thanks for the personal intervention.


This subject is a pet of mine having opposed the ASIC introduction at Board level at AOPA in the day when the ruling "troika" felt being an "accredited" issuer would force people to join the organization through membership discounts. The original pamphlets put out to support the introduction by DOT clearly showed by way of diagram the "security sensitive" zones and one was given to believe a tin of red or yellow paint would identify these airline terminal, fuel and navigation equipment areas. The problem was, DOT proclaimed no funding for airport upgrades, (free cash), would be forthcoming unless "ALL" the airside was thus categorized. Petty local identities given to exposing their imagined importance took up the issue and pilots were hounded and threatened.


The whole affair presents as a farce of "Applebyesque" magnitude and is simply begging for a spate of public disobedience. My own "ASIC" depicts an unmentionable part of the female anatomy and passed on to me by another "anarchist". And, before you ask, I've never been taken to task wearing it nor offended anybody due to its unimaginable irrelevance. In fact I've seen others depicting Labrador dogs, (no offence to Lab's implied), and one depicting a chap wearing a WW2 Eastern European military despots image with very rakish cap and what looks like a ZZ insignia.


Our newish Minister doesn't put me in any frame of mind one would consider easy. In fact he presents as part of the problem, not any solution. But it's worth the effort to put it to him if only to put it on record. I applaud you for that.


I know you won't agree, but I urge others to treat the scandal in the same vein as the proposers and if you own an ASIC, obscure it to force challenge or wear a red Hi-Vis vest such that the identity is moot or just make your own and be prepared to break rocks for the principle.

[YPJT]

And if you didn't think it could get any worse. There is now a White ASIC for those who are involved in the acceptance, transportation, or otherwise handling air freight. This one doesn't allow you to have unescorted access in secure areas and as far as I know, doesn't get you the discount at your usual terminal cafe's. But still costs the same.

Frank, I think the wharfies with their MSICs would probably outdo anything you have or have seen on an ASIC. That is in the sights for the next round of legislation changes where names will have to be as they appear on ID documents ie Passport, Drivers licence etc. Photos will be required to be of the same standard as passport photos.

[rjtjrt]

I have recently begun to wonder if the barely visible Darren Chester is regarded by the public servants in his department as "a delight to work with".

[Frank Arouet]

If names have to appear as accurate why not a drivers licence or passport. Or forbid the idea, a pilot licence or certificate??

[Acrosport II]

Great work Dick,

Nice letter.

Lets hope they implement the Recommendation ASAP.

[aroa]

A recently presented AFP card had printed on the back...You are the eyes and ears of the airport. Report any suspicious or unusual activity.

Was able to advise the card offerer that 'you are 7 years too late'
How so? he responded.
In the USA thats exactly what they said to GA and they HAD 9/ll.

We just got pollywafflers and bureaurats seeing a 'lets do something' business opportunity.

[Pinky the pilot]

We just got pollywafflers and bureaurats seeing a 'lets do something' business opportunity.

You have that half right, aroa; It is an old Political maxim that in 'stressful' times that the Government of the day must be seen to be doing something to fix a problem!

After the events of September 11th, Aviation security obviously came into question. An extremely cynical part of me thinks that the Government of the day saw that not only could they be seen to be doing something to strengthen the security at Airports, but (more importantly to them really) that they could raise lots of more revenue!:E

How much does it cost to get the ASIC?

Who benefits?

Does it work?

[Lead Balloon]

One cannot put a price on security, Pinky.

It's like putting a price on air safety.

Australia must spend as much money as is necessary, and inconvenience as many people as is necessary, to ensure that the public perceives there is no risk to the security and safety of aviation. A student pilot at Deniliquin could aspire to bring down western democracy with the weapon of a fully fuelled C152 or a VHF transmitter. It therefore follows that no expense should be spared, and no inconvenience is too onerous, to ensure that all prospective student pilots at any location are not a threat to the security or safety of air navigation.

The fact that security checks are now a lucrative source of profits for private organisations as contractors to government is just a coincidence: Their motivation is purely altruistic.

[thorn bird]

Don't know what you guys are winging about.
You can buy ASIC's in Punchbowl for forty bucks.

[Dick Smith]

Is that true? Any evidence?

[cooperplace]

One cannot put a price on security, Pinky.

It's like putting a price on air safety.

Australia must spend as much money as is necessary, and inconvenience as many people as is necessary, to ensure that the public perceives there is no risk to the security and safety of aviation. A student pilot at Deniliquin could aspire to bring down western democracy with the weapon of a fully fuelled C152 or a VHF transmitter. It therefore follows that no expense should be spared, and no inconvenience is too onerous, to ensure that all prospective student pilots at any location are not a threat to the security or safety of air navigation.

The fact that security checks are now a lucrative source of profits for private organisations as contractors to government is just a coincidence: Their motivation is purely altruistic.

for a moment there I thought you were tongue-in-cheek.

[cooperplace]

Don't know what you guys are winging about.
You can buy ASIC's in Punchbowl for forty bucks.

if true, forged or stolen?

[Pinky the pilot]

for a moment there I thought you were tongue-in-cheek.

You mean he wasn't??:ooh::eek::ugh::hmm:

[Lead Balloon]

The key word in my post above is "perceives".

Anyways, I reckon all pilots should be followed by a government-engaged security agent to monitor any potentially security-relevant or medical condition-relevant behaviours. Safety demands it. And we can't put a price on safety.

[gerry111]

I reckon that you're right, Lead Balloon.

Perhaps the hypothetical government-engaged security agent, should be asking really salient pilot safety questions such as: "What colour is your shirt?"

Suppose that the pilot says: teal, but the person from the government reckons: blue? Ground that pilot immediately!

[CaptainMidnight]

if true, forged or stolen?

Noticed these reports in papers recently. Note mention of aviation security cards:

Ex-cop allegedly sold fake police IDs, could 'steal items at will', court hears (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/excop-allegedly-sold-fake-police-ids-could-steal-items-at-will-court-hears-20161124-gswfuw.html)
Former cop sold fake police IDs online, court told | The Northern Daily Leader (http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/4313207/former-cop-sold-fake-police-ids-online-court-told/?cs=4141)
Fake IDs sold on dark web by former police officer, Bendigo court hears - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/police-officer-accused-of-making-fake-id-cards-sold-on-dark-web/8051860)

[Lead Balloon]

The solution to the risk of forgery is clear and must be implemented: Before any pilot is allowed to enter any aerodrome, security personnel must confirm, with the issuing body, that an ASIC proffered by the pilot was, in fact, issued by that body.

The interests of air safety demand this, because no price in money or inconvenience can be put on air safety.

[cooperplace]

You mean he wasn't??:ooh::eek::ugh::hmm:

no, I was. I know he was too.

[cooperplace]

Noticed these reports in papers recently. Note mention of aviation security cards:

Ex-cop allegedly sold fake police IDs, could 'steal items at will', court hears (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/excop-allegedly-sold-fake-police-ids-could-steal-items-at-will-court-hears-20161124-gswfuw.html)
Former cop sold fake police IDs online, court told | The Northern Daily Leader (http://www.northerndailyleader.com.au/story/4313207/former-cop-sold-fake-police-ids-online-court-told/?cs=4141)
Fake IDs sold on dark web by former police officer, Bendigo court hears - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/police-officer-accused-of-making-fake-id-cards-sold-on-dark-web/8051860)

it says he stole them from the cop shop; so I think they were genuine cards that were stolen. They probably aren't that easy to forge by the right person.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Dick,

Please set up a twitter account!
Pollies and journos use twitter.
If you use twitter, we can share your stuff using twitter and hash-tag the **** out of it.

No, this is not what democracy is supposed to be about but it is reality in Australia in 2016.

...btw it's a pity you picked the last day of the sitting year to send your letter.

I hope Benny Morgan and the AOPA team pick up your campaign.

While I'm at it, can I encourage every GA business to get behind AOPA for a year or 2? Ben Morgan is kicking in the doors and we need more pirates to help us storm the parapets.

....to mix my military metaphors

[AOPA]

AOPA Australia calls on the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Mr Darren Chester to effect the ASRR 2014 ASIC recommendation before the close of 2017, giving general aviation relief this Christmas.


Friday, 2nd December 2016


The Hon Darren Chester MP
Minister for Infrastructure and Transport
House of Representatives
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600, Australia.


Dear Minister,


I am writing to you on behalf of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) of Australia in full support of Mr Dick Smith’s recent submission to your office regarding Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC) for general aviation.


As you are aware and have acknowledged recently with the announcement of your review into general aviation decline, Australia’s general aviation industry is suffering under the weight of a wide gambit of regulatory and economic pressures that have forced some 8,000+ pilots to exit in just the past 10 years.


The industry has experienced the largest decline in aviation businesses throughout the same period, along with the largest skills departure and shortage in the history of general aviation in this country. More than ever, our industry needs your leadership and attention for it to recover and achieve its potential.


The decline in general aviation been assisted by unnecessary regulatory overreach which includes the ASIC scheme that was identified during the Aviation Safety Regulation Review (ASRR) May 2014 (“The Forsyth Report”) as having “… a significant regulatory impost on the industry..” and “… without delivering a commensurate security benefit”.


The ASRR put forward its recommendation to government in 2014, that specified;


“The Australian Government amends regulations so that background checks and the requirement to hold an Aviation Security Identification Card are only required for unescorted access to Security Restricted Areas (SRA), not for general airside access. This approach would align with international practice.”
Nearly two and half years have passed without action on this most important issue.


The AOPA Australia are calling on you Minister to give immediate effect to the ASRR ASIC recommendation, so as to remove this unnecessary regulatory burden before the close of 2017, providing our general aviation industry with your firm commitment for reform.


We would appreciate a formal response.


Yours Sincerely,
BENJAMIN MORGAN


Executive Director - Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA)
Hangar 600, Prentice Street, Bankstown Airport NSW 2200 Australia.


PO BOX 26, Georges Hall NSW 2198 Australia.


Mobile: 0415 577 724
Telephone: (02) 9791 9099
Email: [email protected]

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

The requirement for widespread use af ASICs has obviously been successful because there has not been one repeat of airliners being flown into the World Trade Centres since their introduction. QED.

[DenisPC9]

"The interests of air safety demand this, because no price in money or inconvenience can be put on air safety."

But the roads based people say the same thing, "if it only saves one life ...."

No wonder we have a "Budget Emergency". Or whatever the cockatoos are squawking about this month.

[LeadSled]

Traffic is er was,

Too true, especially in US, land of the Twin Towers, obviously a great success.

Ouch!! Somebody just kicked me under the table, and reminded me that the US version of an ASIC is not generally required in GA in US.

Tootle pip!!