They found the person in Melbourne doing fake radio calls ! [Archive]

Lead Balloon

22nd Nov 2016, 07:49

You make a point with which I agree. And one which shows why the smooth rhetoric about "no risk to safety", that is so often trotted out by spin doctors in the wake of incidents that did in fact pose a substantial risk to safety, can have unintended consequences.

There are offences for making false calls of distress and interference with air traffic services, improper use of telecommunications equipment etc, in which the resources diverted to dealing with hoaxes may be relevant considerations in sentencing, safety risk or not.

lee_apromise

22nd Nov 2016, 07:57

I hope he will pick up some soaps dropped on the shower room floor in prison.

Lead Balloon

22nd Nov 2016, 08:01

For the record, being charged is not the same as being found guilty and convicted.

Eric Janson

22nd Nov 2016, 08:40

Why isn't this individual being charged with Sabotage under the Montreal Convention?

I would hope some of the crews involved would also file charges.

Time to send a clear message that this behaviour is unacceptable.

Lead Balloon

22nd Nov 2016, 08:57

Gosh.

Didn't take long for thread drift into complete fantasy land.

jas24zzk

22nd Nov 2016, 09:27

Didn't take long for thread drift into complete fantasy land.

Not really leadie, all valid claims. It only comes down to an analysis by the thieves in suits as to whether such options would generate a payable result (i.e will they get paid, as squawk mentions)

Interesting they haven't said they have charged him for unliscenced use of the VHF gear....which would be worrysome if he is actually qualified to use it.
Ya never know...early days of the arrest....more charges are probably pending.

Centaurus

22nd Nov 2016, 09:56

Did they ever find the disgruntled pilot who did the same thing during the 1989 affair (note the politically correct term:E)?

Stanwell

22nd Nov 2016, 11:41

So glad to hear that they got him.
The moderate thrashing with a wet lettuce leaf will, no doubt, be a lesson.
Not too hard, though - he has simply been misunderstood. OK?
Yeah, right.

troppo

22nd Nov 2016, 22:36

19 year old suffering from autism and depression and not on medication...
Playing the sympathy card already.

onetrack

23rd Nov 2016, 00:07

He'll be scolded for being a naughty boy, and his radio/s will be taken from him, and he'll be given a community service order, and ordered to stay away from radios. You can bet on it.

Pinky the pilot

23rd Nov 2016, 00:40

He'll be scolded for being a naughty boy, and his radio/s will be taken from him, and he'll be given a community service order, and ordered to stay away from radios. You can bet on it.

I suspect that you are 100% correct there, onetrack.

josephfeatherweight

23rd Nov 2016, 01:09

But apparently he "hacked" into the ATC frequency!!! :}
That's pretty nifty!

allthecoolnamesarego

23rd Nov 2016, 02:00

19 year old suffering from autism and depression and not on medication...
Playing the sympathy card already

Troppo,

I hope your comment re 'sympathy card' is in jest.
Autism and depression are real mate, Google them if in doubt.

We are not all lucky enough to be without problems. Some people suffer and do things that seem incomprehensible to 'us'.

Let's hope that if this individual does in fact have autism and depression, then he gets the help he requires and goes on to live a fulfilled and productive life.

Imagine a world where people were forever judged by mistakes they made, and never given an opportunity to correct those errors.....

Why do people immediately assume it's a 'sympathy card'? What a sad place this is.

Aussie Bob

23rd Nov 2016, 02:13

Allthecoolnames :ok: :ok: :ok:

I for one would like to know why and what aviation experience the said person has. Obviously he can talk aviation well enough on the radio to to get listened to. Where did he learn?

Hopefully he is not going to do it again. Some of you folk want revenge instead of justice. Not a good look.

wheels_down

23rd Nov 2016, 02:52

I do get the sympathy card bit.

I mean how many people with autism and/or depression in this world are dialling up frequencies and and talking to Flight Crew? Clearly he had done his research, got the equipment, sussed out frequencies, researched basic phrases to say...

He knew what he was doing. Sorry....

allthecoolnamesarego

23rd Nov 2016, 03:08

Again, Google autism and depression, or better still talk to someone. You probably know someone with depression or autism. Autism is a spectrum disorder that has many forms.

Here, I've made it easy for you https://www.autismspectrum.org.au/content/what-autism

From their website:
These behaviours often manifest in an intense and focused interest in a particular subject matter.

Autism does not mean that a person can't function at all.

As for depression, well that doesn't mean one can't function 'normally' either.

So perhaps this person had the equipment and listened to calls. It's not difficult to detect patterns and standard phrases; hold on, that's how I learnt radio calls, but I digress.

Yes, he knew what he was doing, but filter that through the lens of depression and autism and put on your compassionate pants and it might be easier to understand how he did this (assuming he has been found guilty that is).

We are very quick to say 'let's wait for the investigation ' or 'the pilot did a great job of avoiding the school' when it's an aircraft accident, but wait for the investigation into this to establish the facts, no!

Great Mob mentality on show here.

josephfeatherweight

23rd Nov 2016, 03:32

Yes, autism is a spectrum disorder and it manifests itself in different ways. However, taking your advice, Google reveals to me (as I suspected) that the majority of those with autism know the difference between right and wrong (moral reasoning), often quite strongly. As do people with depression.
Admittedly I'm on the slant of those that think that everyone seems to have an excuse for everything these days - and don't take responsibility for their own actions.
*This is of course not a slight against those with autism or depression.
*And, innocent until proven guilty, as others have said.
Have I covered off on all the PC ****e I needed to?

IFEZ

23rd Nov 2016, 03:43

Allthecoolnames, you're not a member of Victorias judiciary are you..??

Seriously though, no one is saying that Autism and depression are not real and can affect peoples behaviour. But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!

People need to take responsibility for their actions. This person made a conscious decision to do this. Nobody is saying he should forever be judged and not given a chance to rehabilitate, but this was not some 'mistake' or error of judgment. It was a deliberate action and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

If found guilty, a bit of time away to reflect on the error of his ways is justified in this case, and may well deter others from doing the same thing. While he's inside, by all means provide the medical/psychological help he needs. Its not a matter of revenge. Its called making someone accountable for their actions. Something that has been sadly lacking in our court system of late.

allthecoolnamesarego

23rd Nov 2016, 04:10

Joseph Your dismissive final line says a lot.....
Right and wrong can be subjective depending on the persons state of mind. That's why extenuating circumstances are considered during trials etc.
The mind is a powerful tool... If you're honest, I bet you've done things you knew were wrong but were able to 'justify'. We all have.

Band a Lot

23rd Nov 2016, 04:22

Autism and depression in the courts is a welcome change to "under the influence of alcohol and drugs at the time". That was just getting plane boring defence and easily provable!

But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!

I think its not actually a excuse but a defence.

Also we need to look into why such a increase in Autism, particularly in kids the last years.

josephfeatherweight

23rd Nov 2016, 04:39

If you're honest, I bet you've done things you knew were wrong but were able to 'justify'. We all have.
That's true, no disagreement there.
Joseph Your dismissive final line says a lot.....
Yes, my last line was dismissive - perhaps IFEZ did a more eloquent job - I agree with what he said, but I'm a little less patient and a tad grumpy...

Sunfish

23rd Nov 2016, 05:06

according to currently fashionable judicial theories, the perpetrator if found guilty, should be treated to an all expenses paid commercial pilots course.

Band a Lot

23rd Nov 2016, 05:11

Sunfish, you fail to mention - Paid for by Industry affected.

allthecoolnamesarego

23rd Nov 2016, 05:37

Some defences are real and some are excuses. That is why we have a legal system that attempts to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I think we need to be more analytical with sweeping generalisations.

But it seems that every time someone is up before the courts these days, their defence is that it wasn't their fault due to some illness/condition/past treatment/ethnicity etc etc. Enough with the excuses!

Where is the evidence for this statement? Perhaps it's true perhaps it's not. Perhaps those 'excuses' when properly tested after being claimed, are in fact upheld.

We learn more and more about the mind and it's effects all the time, however, because unlike a broken limb, it's not obvious, we tend not to believe it. How could someone's mind make them do that???

Now, if this person is found guilty, then of course there should be consequences, I have never claimed otherwise. Those consequences should reflect the damaged caused and the causal factors behind those actions.

I fear we are becoming a non thinking society that simply accepts what we are told without giving proper analytical consideration to it.

As for the increase in Autism diagnosis, there are a number of possible factors, diagnostic substitution, or a change in diagnostic criteria, are but two.

Capt Claret

23rd Nov 2016, 05:40

Geez, I hope if I'm ever accused and being judged by my peers, there are no pilots on the jury!

Most have convicted this guy without knowing any facts, but based purely on media reports of what he did. Reports of possible medical factors are, mostly, dismissed as excuses to "get him off".

Bloody poor form from folk that like to consider themselves, in the main, professional. :rolleyes:

troppo

23rd Nov 2016, 05:43

Allthegood...my comment has created some lively debate. I wasn't trying to be as insensitive as I appeared...we all have our own battles. Autism is a defence and a good defence lawyer will use it. No I don't think they will get a beating with wet lettuce nor should they. It appears to be a federal offence and when and if convicted it will be a balance between a deterrent to other potential offenders and ensuring this person gets any help they may need.

Lead Balloon

23rd Nov 2016, 08:17

You had me until "PC ****e", Joseph, at which point you demonstrated that you don't get the point. Maybe one day you'll be a suspect charged with something for which the mob is clamouring for your scalp. Then you'll learn the point the hard way. (I think CC would agree with this point.)

Anyway, I reckon that in this case there's a chance that the charges won't be proven, whether or not the suspect is suffering autism and depression. I don't know the specific charges laid, but if an element of the offences charged is, as suggested by the news reports, the endangerment of life, the prosecution is going to have to prove that life was, in fact, put in danger. (Yes: I realise it's silly to rely on news reports, but that's the only source I have about the nature of the charges laid.)

Hoax MAYDAY? How does that involve the endangerment of life?

If the life of the SAR responders who responded to the hoax MAYDAYS were put in danger, it would follow that their lives are put in danger every time they respond to a real MAYDAY.

Hoax ATC instruction to 'go around'? (This was the implication of the ABC report on the hoax ATC instructions.) How does that involve the endangerment of life?

A pilot of an aircraft on approach can always elect to go around, and the Tower knows this and is prepared for it. The Tower can always instruct an aircraft on approach to go around, and pilots of those aircraft know this and are prepared for it.

Whilst it would, of course, be possible to issue a number of hoax ATC instructions that, in combination, would create very real dangers of collision if not an actual collision, did that actually happen in fact in this case? Remember: The response of the usual spin doctors was the usual smooth rhetoric about no risk to safety, nothing to see here, move on.

josephfeatherweight

23rd Nov 2016, 08:43

Do you think they've got the wrong guy?

Lead Balloon

23rd Nov 2016, 08:57

No.

But nabbing the guy who made the transmissions is not the same as proving the elements of the offences charged.

josephfeatherweight

23rd Nov 2016, 09:27

But nabbing the guy who made the transmissions is not the same as proving the elements of the offences charged.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Look, I've never said, "Lock him away and throw away the key." In fact, I haven't commented at all on appropriate penalty - I'll go further by saying, that, in my mind, in the whole scheme of things, the offence is not that big a deal - along a similar vein to Lead Balloon's discussion re: "endangerment of life". I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm drawing the connection inappropriately. Regardless, I'm certainly not "clamoring for his scalp." as others are.
But, my point is regarding the automatic inference that depression or autism is an excuse for such behaviour. Why are there reports surrounding his medical condition, if not to suggest an "excuse"?
If it transpires that the autism is medically found (legitimately) to be a contributing factor to the behaviour, well, then there is of course a valid excuse. My very basic reading into this (just this afternoon) suggests that moral reasoning is usually strong and prevalent amongst the majority of those on the spectrum.
I'm not being PC here - depression is a very real and terrible condition that afflicts many people in a terrible way. However, it forms no level of excuse in this case - that's simply my opinion.
I'm probably assisting in dragging this thread away from the real topic, for which I apologise. For me, this is a case of differing opinions and not one of anyone "not getting the point."
My poor decision to add the comment regarding "PC ****e" has not done anything to support my opinion - it was not well thought out in this case (there IS too much PC ****e in this world!) but I'll leave it there so the subsequent responses to what I wrote make more sense.

Squawk7700

23rd Nov 2016, 09:36

Ironically whilst I read this thread, the targeted advertising on pprune is now showing me where I can buy a cheap VHF transceiver from eBay !

onetrack

23rd Nov 2016, 10:31

As the case is currently before the courts, I'd advise that extended comments and opinions about the case and the charged individual should be restrained until the case is heard and judgement handed down.
Discussion of pending cases on "social media" is nowadays considered to possibly be interference in the case, and can land social media commentators in hot water via contempt of court charges.

The AFP have all the facts and information on the case as we currently know it.
It is obvious that the AFP regards cases of ATC and airliner communication interference, with the greatest gravity - and I believe this is correct and in line with the intent and meaning of the laws associated with the charges.
The potential penalties for the offence/s reflect the gravity of the offending.

AFP Media Releases - Man charged following unauthorised radio transmissions at Victorian airports (https://www.afp.gov.au/news-media/media-releases/man-charged-following-unauthorised-radio-transmissions-victorian-airports)

Metro man

23rd Nov 2016, 12:42

Perhaps they can get after the idiots with the lasers as well.

Hempy

23rd Nov 2016, 16:11

Lead Balloon, you also need to consider that sentences handed down by the judiciary are not only meant to act as an appropriate punishment for the crime that has been committed, but to also act as a deterrent to others who might be considering doing the same thing.

Now, I'm well aware that the deterrence angle doesn't necessarily always work, after all people still try to smuggle drugs out of Indonesia, people still commit murder in the death penalty states in the US..

The fact is though that while the actions of the individual responsible for those radio calls may not have put lives at risk on this occasion, the possibility is certainly there. In my opinion, passing fake ATC instructions that are acted upon by the crew is as close as you can get to hijacking an aircraft without actually getting on board.

Whether the person charged is guilty or not I have no idea, but if he is he deserves to feel the full brunt of the law. He wont do it again, and hopefully others will have second thoughts as well.

Lead Balloon

23rd Nov 2016, 19:49

All of that's fine in principle, Hempy.

I understand that one of the aims of penalties and sentencing is deterrence. But to get to the point at which the deterrence aim is promoted through a penalty, the offence has to be proven.

All I'm saying, as a general point rather than as a specific comment on a case the details of the charges and facts of which I have no knowledge other than through the media, is this: If a person has been charged with offences, one of the elements of which is the actual endangerment of life, and no lives were endangered in fact by the person's conduct, it follows that those offences were not committed and the theoretical penalty and its deterrence value are irrelevant. It's not that life might have been endangered or could have been endangered. It's that life was actually endangered.

However, I repeat: I have no knowledge of details of the charges and facts in this particular case other than through the media, and I'm just making a general comment.

parabellum

23rd Nov 2016, 21:57

If the accused made just one radio call that blocked a genuine ATC instruction to an aircraft then there is a safety issue, particularly if the ATC instruction was related to maintaining separation.

wdew

24th Nov 2016, 00:28

I the outcome was a hundred or so dead bodies splattered all over the country side would the grieving relatives still think it is a minor issue of some poor guy with issues ? Are the general public not entitled to live a life and enjoy a safe flight somewhere. Individual rights and excuses should not endanger others freedom. We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.

mikewil

24th Nov 2016, 00:31

If there is no risk to safety when incidents like this occur, when why have ATC at all?

If reliable communications with ATC are not safety critical, then how can we justify an ATC service at all.

Lets re designate every aerodrome as a CTAF and save the money!

TOUCH-AND-GO

24th Nov 2016, 01:04

Lets re designate every aerodrome as a CTAF and save the money!

MELBOURNE TRAFFIC,
QANTAS79 HEAVY, eeerrrrrrrr......
AIRBUS 330,
CURRENTLY 5 NAUTICAL MILES TO errrrr.....THE NORTHWEST,
INTENTIONS ARE TO eeerrrr.....JOIN MID-FIELD CROSSWIND FOR RUNWAY 34,
TRAFFIC MELBOURNE!

:}:}:}

IFEZ

24th Nov 2016, 01:57

We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.

Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif broken.

Lead Balloon

24th Nov 2016, 02:19

Gawd.

Parabellum: "If".

That's why the facts about what actually happened, rather than speculation as to what could have happened, matter.

mikewil: "If".

Who said ATC is not an essential part of the system of air safety?

ATC is an essential part of the system of air safety. But whether safety is, in fact, compromised in a specific set of factual circumstances depends on the facts.

Clearly the spin doctors were of the view that there was in fact no compromise to safety, in the specific set of circumstances that existed in fact, because that's in effect what they said in fact.

The facts may end up being important.

Stanwell

24th Nov 2016, 03:01

LB,
While the name PPRuNe might seem to suggest that it is just a rumour network...
I have not noticed any actual rumours being spread on this thread so far.
This sad person (and others of his ilk) need to have it strongly pointed out to them the probable consequences of such behaviour.
One possibility is that the more publicity this clown's activities receive in the mainstream media, the greater likelihood some other silly kiddies will decide they can do even better.
A worry.
.

cooperplace

24th Nov 2016, 03:04

according to this: Teenage would-be pilot charged over hoax cockpit calls was sacked by Virgin (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/teenage-wouldbe-pilot-charged-over-hoax-cockpit-calls-was-sacked-by-virgin-20161123-gswatn.html) he was ex-virgin ground crew, sacked in September for undisclosed reasons.

Band a Lot

24th Nov 2016, 03:16

Probably still got an ASIC.

Andy_RR

24th Nov 2016, 06:43

If the accused made just one radio call that blocked a genuine ATC instruction to an aircraft then there is a safety issue, particularly if the ATC instruction was related to maintaining separation.

If the airspace is that fragile, we should be grounding the entire fleet until measures can be implemented to mitigate this...

Band a Lot

24th Nov 2016, 07:21

Virgin aircraft gets a call via either phone to airport or direct to ATC, your aircraft has a pressure sensitive vessel on board - Do Not descend below 1,500 or above 3,000 or stray 5 NM radius from airfield.

Would such a call be more or less an "issues" if made direct via VHF to the aircraft?

Acrosport II

24th Nov 2016, 08:18

IFEZ (http://www.pprune.org/members/442951-ifez)
We live in a society where every one gets a medal and there are no consequences for any acts or behaviour .
Like fining people for 17 th time driving unlicenced and unregistered and killing some one eventually with a car.

Or breaking in to someone's house, bashing & robbing them, getting out on bail, doing it again to someone else, getting out on bail again, stealing another car, getting out on bail again, finally coming up before the courts, and punishment for all this..? Community corrections order and NO conviction recorded. Just like a lot of unfortunate peoples front doors in Melbourne, the system is seriously http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif broken.

You nailed it.
Totally agree.
Prison sentences cost Govt money, so probation, suspended sentences, conviction and released.

Speed cameras, now that's where the money is.

They should set the example with this guy and jail him for the maximum penalty allowed.

gerry111

24th Nov 2016, 09:41

Acrosport II wrote:

"They should set the example with this guy and jail him for the maximum penalty allowed."

Goodness! Has the accused been found guilty of anything yet?

"String him up, it'll teach him a lesson." somehow comes to mind here..

Squawk7700

24th Nov 2016, 09:44

MikeJulietHotel

24th Nov 2016, 09:56

The alleged behaviour of whoever did this is completely unacceptable...but there's a reason we have a judicial system. The courts will determine, on the basis of the evidence, whether he is guilty or not. The courts will also decide, taking into account all of the circumstances, the appropriate punishment, should he be found guilty.

I haven't got any of the information I need, even should it be my job, in order to decide guilt and penalty. I think we have a good system that's fair and generally gets it right. We should leave it to the system.

Desert Flower

24th Nov 2016, 10:52

Found this link - interesting!
https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/33130708/manhunt-underway-after-radio-transmissions-with-melbourne-flights-hacked/#page1

DF.

Lead Balloon

24th Nov 2016, 19:45

The alleged behaviour of whoever did this is completely unacceptable...but there's a reason we have a judicial system. The courts will determine, on the basis of the evidence, whether he is guilty or not. The courts will also decide, taking into account all of the circumstances, the appropriate punishment, should he be found guilty.Hear! Hear!

I, too, find the alleged behaviour completely unacceptable. The only point I was trying to make to some others is that the alleged behaviour constitutes many offences that do not require the prosecution to prove lives were actually put in danger, and are therefore less difficult to prove, yet still incur substantial penalties including periods of imprisonment.

kaz3g

24th Nov 2016, 20:48

It costs approximately $100k per annum to house a prisoner in Victoria. I was told this by the head of a maximum security prison only a couple of weeks back.

Some prisoners are locked up in their cells for 23 hours a day. It's not somewhere where the average person ever wants to end up! It's quite a sad place really. All they want (generally) is to be outside with their families.

It's actually around $220k now and the likelihood of any sort of rehabilitation inside is remote as revealed by a recent audit of Corrections Victoria.

Those who are placed on Community Corrections Orders are far more likely to comply with conditions of treatment and program participation, and will actually perform work to effect reparation to the community. They are also much less likely to reoffend.

Unfortunately, those who serve a first prison term are 80% likely to reoffend and serve another one. Factors include the lessons they learn by associating with other offenders, the huge difficulty in finding accommodation and work post-release and mental health issues.

Kaz

Squawk7700

24th Nov 2016, 21:22

It's actually around $220k now and the likelihood of any sort of rehabilitation inside is remote as revealed by a recent audit of Corrections Victoria.

The actual cost is around $270 per day or an average of $295,168 for a three year sentence. ABC news Sep 17, 2015: source Ombudsman report. So I suspect my $100k estimate provided by the head of a prison, is accurate.

44.1% are re-offending within two years of release.

Corrections Victoria budget is $1.04b p/a.

j3pipercub

25th Nov 2016, 03:09

Spot the ACA viewers...

Lock him up? Sure cos none of us did anything stupid, illegal or punishable as teenagers. I always find it funny that generally the ones that want 'the book thrown at the cretin' will also belly ache about the cost of prisons and why the guvmint is wasting 'their tax dollars'. Also most likely baby boomers, you know the ones who have lived through never before seen prosperity and have destroyed the housing market for their children through negative gearing, with the added bonus of minimising the tax dollars they have to pay to said squandering guvmint.

Do you honestly think that by 'locking him up', you will solve all the problems? Recidivism already costs this country far too much. And harsh judicial penalties do not now, nor have they ever been an effective deterrent for criminal activity. Furthermore, compared to 20 years ago, with the exception of sexual assualt, we live in a safer Australia as a whole. But you don't 'feel' safe do you...

Perhaps a non custodial sentence and a rehabilitation/psych assesment would be the best option for society and the alleged offender. He's still young and odds are this is his first offence.

Finally, the statement that issuing fake clearances to an aircraft is close to hijacking is interesting. Would love to hear the reasoning behind that.

Nevermind, all aboard the outrage bus, next stop, the lynching tree.

The name is Porter

25th Nov 2016, 07:25

Spot the leftist elite, preaching tolerance until losing an argument then lashing out. Name calling, putting anybody with a contrary viewpoint down.

Having trouble saving a deposit for your first house? Head down son, work a couple of jobs and buy outside of a 40k radius. Don't get involved in the politics of envy. You'll find your attitude changes for the better.

kaz3g

25th Nov 2016, 09:16

The actual cost is around $270 per day or an average of $295,168 for a three year sentence. ABC news Sep 17, 2015: source Ombudsman report. So I suspect my $100k estimate provided by the head of a prison, is accurate.

44.1% are re-offending within two years of release.

Corrections Victoria budget is $1.04b p/a]

You need to quote the whole finding in the Ombudsman's report and account for infrastructure costs, not just direct costs.

"The cost of the prison system continues to spiral. Since 2011, the budget for correctional services in Victoria has risen by 31 per cent to $1.04 billion. And this excludes a further $670 million committed to the construction of the new Ravenhall Prison and the estimated $1.6 billion required to operate it for the following 25 years"

Squawk7700

25th Nov 2016, 11:21

Depends how you look at it. When I look at the cost of a train fare to get into the city, I don't include the cost of the train :-)

kaz3g

25th Nov 2016, 22:58

Yeh...but we are all paying for that train even though we aren't using it.

Is it appropriate to mention here the appalling lack of public transport services for most of us who reside in rural Victoria outside of the marginal seats?

I doubt the "tough on crime" brigade will ever be convinced of the futility of imprisoning the majority of offenders by arguments around better outcomes, but some of them might just understand a cost-efficiency one. The citizens of California finally came to that conclusion after their prisons nearly bankrupted them.

Kaz

MikeJulietHotel

26th Nov 2016, 00:06

I'm with you Kaz. The majority of people in prison are there because of mental health issues, drug use as a result of mental health issues and property crime to support a drug habit as a result of mental health issues. The root cause is therefore a health system one.

Locking people up or transporting them was fashionable in 1788, pity we haven't moved on and become more sophisticated over two and a quarter centuries.

Whether it's cost or humanity the current system doesn't work, is unaffordable and relies on ever more prison capacity. The definition of stupidity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

How did we get here in this thread?:rolleyes:

Yeh...but we are all paying for that train even though we aren't using it.

Is it appropriate to mention here the appalling lack of public transport services for most of us who reside in rural Victoria outside of the marginal seats?

I doubt the "tough on crime" brigade will ever be convinced of the futility of imprisoning the majority of offenders by arguments around better outcomes, but some of them might just understand a cost-efficiency one. The citizens of California finally came to that conclusion after their prisons nearly bankrupted them.

Kaz

Orange future

26th Nov 2016, 01:04

In response to the question posed by Centaurus,

No, none of the many bogus transmitters in the late eighties were identified.

I know of several fake go round calls and personally heard someone jamming Darwin App on several occasions.

But no calls to "string him up".

I feel sorry for the kid in the latest incident. Anyone who has a connection to depression AND autism will not want to "string him up".

Desert Flower

28th Nov 2016, 05:52

It was on the Channel 10 news a while ago. He is a former baggage handler & aspiring pilot. He wants to be released from prison because he is autistic & fears the prison system. Autistic or not, I am sure he knew what he was doing was wrong.

DF.

sms777

28th Nov 2016, 07:53

Which brings us to the conclusion......."String him up"

Another Number

28th Nov 2016, 08:06

He is a former baggage handler & aspiring pilot. He wants to be released from prison because he is autistic & fears the prison system.Sounds like the best punishment for this deranged former baggage handler is to be sentenced to work under GT!

Proven Tosser? Check!
Thinks he's a pilot? Check!
Full of shyte? Check!

Job at airline ratings awaits!

Rotor Work

28th Nov 2016, 09:45

Update from ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-28/man-accused-hoax-radio-calls-at-melbourne-airports-bail/8072612

le Pingouin

28th Nov 2016, 10:11

j3p - if it's not a deliberate and malicious attempt to control an aircraft then what is it? A fake instruction to change heading or level could easily put two aircraft in proximity, particularly in a TMA. Sure, they have TCAS but that's not the point. Lives are potentially at risk. Hijacking with a fake gun where there was no actual threat to life is still treated as a serious matter.

j3pipercub

28th Nov 2016, 11:43

LeP

Firstly, are you seriously suggesting that the airspace you control could be brought down by any idiot with a $300 transceiver? Because if you do, we should ban them. I mean look what happened after we banned high powered laser pointers. Completely stopped aircraft getting lasered didn't it...

Secondly, do you really think we just sit in the front and blindly follow everything you tell us to without question? Do you think we'd just plough into another aircraft because 'thats what approach told me to do?'.

Lives are at risk everytime we all sign on for work. Be it the lowest common denominator sitting up front (normally me), or the guy tired/stressed working two sectors in Zurich during a systems upgrade. The human factors internally within our industry are much more of a risk day to day than an idiot with a transceiver.

And there is a very discernable difference between hijacking with a weapon (albeit later proved to be false) and making bogus radio calls.

I think it was an immature teenager who was upset about losing their job and thought they would maybe inconvenience their former employer and cost them some money. I highly doubt this individual was out to take lives or cause harm.

j3

Mr.Buzzy

28th Nov 2016, 12:09

J3,
Do you also "highly doubt" the guy with a laser is trying to cause harm? What about the abusive drunk mid-flight? The fella making bomb threats?
Young and stupid is no excuse for someone that not only SHOULD but DOES know better.

Bzbzbbzbzbzbzbzb

The name is Porter

28th Nov 2016, 13:04

Yep, SET THE MAAAANNNN FREEEEE

(Cos TCAS works everytime)
(Cos the man up the front can differentiate between real and bogus radio calls)

Sunfish

28th Nov 2016, 19:46

I note that the bloke is being held without bail until December 16. According to my law enforcement friends, jail, even remand, is going to be quite a severe shock to this little flower. My suspicion is that when he is convicted he will get a suspended sentence and never be heard from again.

There is also the civil action question. I assume it would be possible for an airline to sue him for the costs of disruption and the go around.

I hope he has no emulators. Setting up authentication would be a PITA although I guess it could be done pretty quickly.

le Pingouin

29th Nov 2016, 03:54

j3, an open microphone on a busy sector can cause more than enough mayhem.

No I don't think you blindly do what you're told but a bogus instruction is a layer or three of "Swiss cheese" removed. It certainly increases the risk.

cooperplace

29th Nov 2016, 08:23

I think it should be just left to the criminal justice system, which I'm confident is taking this very seriously. I doubt that he'll get a slap on the wrist.

Rotor Work

22nd Dec 2016, 05:04

Let out on bail.
Not good.

josephfeatherweight

22nd Dec 2016, 10:05

From The Age
In the most serious of the allegations, Mr Sant is accused of broadcasting the message "Go around", which resulted in a Virgin pilot aborting a planned landing and looping in the airspace above the airport, Melbourne Magistrates Court has heard. The flight arrived 15 minutes later than scheduled.
Looping a 737 - awesome! :E

Jabawocky

22nd Dec 2016, 10:57

Yeieehaaaa

If you did it right you could be lined up on final again and land!

Another case of p!$$ weak magistrates. If they let him out castrate him so he can't breed. Or lock him up for a long time.

Jabawocky

22nd Dec 2016, 10:59

I think it should be just left to the criminal justice system, which I'm confident is taking this very seriously. I doubt that he'll get a slap on the wrist.

Welcome to the real world Cooper. :=

Be lucky to get the slap on the wrist with a wet soggy noodle.

A judicial disgrace once again. :*

mcgrath50

22nd Dec 2016, 11:22

Guys bail doesn't mean he has avoided being punished it just means you isn't being held in prison while the court proceedings occur. You all know that right??

josephfeatherweight

22nd Dec 2016, 11:26

He was granted bail as the judge thought it likely he'd avoid a custodial sentence when it goes before the court.

Ultralights

22nd Dec 2016, 18:59

Guys bail doesn't mean he has avoided being punished it just means you isn't being held in prison while the court proceedings occur. You all know that right??

stop bringing facts into a good whinge..

also, im sure Virgin will go after him for fuel costs when he is convited.

Sunfish

22nd Dec 2016, 19:59

Wrong. He has been in remand for about a month - which is about the jail time he would get. Remand is no picnic according to policeman I know so Sant has just had a little "taste" of the system. If he is smart, his lawyer will plead guilty, save everyone time and expense, and be convicted and sentenced to....time already served.

clark y

22nd Dec 2016, 20:08

I'd like to know what "I have before me a very young man with extremely limited prior convictions" means. What has he done in the past?

mcgrath50

22nd Dec 2016, 22:12

Indeed, "extremely limited" is not "no" is it?

Centaurus

23rd Dec 2016, 04:01

also, im sure Virgin will go after him for fuel costs when he is convited.
Look on the bright side. The Virgin pilot gets to practice a real go-around in the real aircraft. That's one box ticked and saves simulator time at the next cyclic :E

Bleve

6th Jan 2017, 23:47

Someone was at it again this morning on the ground frequency. :mad: Unfortunately an on air comment from a legitimate agency was made about his transmissions, which only gave him encouragement to ramp up his tirade.

For anyone on frequency when these events happen, might I suggest that the best response is to totally ignore them and not make any on frequency comment at all. (ie Don't feed the trolls!) By all means report them, just not on the frequency on which they are transmitting.