FO doing all engine starts

[Don Gato]

Hi. Talking with a pilot friend that flies for a major carrier, he mentioned that at his company all engine starts are done by the FO. Just wondering how it's done at other airlines. At some, engine starts are done by the PF on that leg. The idea behind the FO doing all starts is that the CAPT can focus "outside" and manage ground movements. Thanks!

[A37575]

The idea behind the FO doing all starts is that the CAPT can focus "outside" and manage ground movements.

As the captain has the entire responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight by law, that would include observing the correct procedure for starting all the engines.

If, as you say, the captain stays focussing "outside" and managing ground movements, then who is double checking if the first officer is starting and monitoring the parameters of each engine correctly?

Depending on individual company procedure, some have the captain responsible for the engine starting and another company may have the co-pilot responsible. Either way, both pilots should be closely observing each engine start especially as a defective start could lead to serious engine damage - for example over temperature. It can take only a few seconds to ruin an engine costing multi million dollars which is why it is vital both pilots watch the whole start procedure until the engines are stabilised. That includes a push-back start.

[Capn Bloggs]

The idea behind the FO doing all starts is that the CAPT can focus "outside" and manage ground movements.
Gawd help us...

[FullWings]

They let a co-pilot touch the controls?!



We do near 100% role-reversal for P1(US) and that includes engine start, done by the P2.

[Piltdown Man]

Oh gosh. I must have started an an engine 50-60 thousand times. Think about what you are doing, hit the tit, start the clock, look at the numbers, job done. If it looks wrong, turn it off. As to who starts it, that now depends on what the manufacturer says. Some say, the handling pilot, some say the non-handling, some don't specify. I can't see the problem letting my college in the other seat start an engine all by himself, especially if I am taxiing. He will turn it off it it looks like it's about to cook it itself, he'll have to. The chances of an F/O getting an engine start wrong are considered to be a minor risk that our company is prepared to take. Besides, most F/O's are sharper than me and are probably less likely to get it wrong. On some days I even let them decide on fuel and if they are very lucky, fly the plane.

[halfofrho]

We split the day up 50/50. Whoever's sector it is starts the engine, taxi's etc etc.

[Amadis of Gaul]

F/O only here. In fact, that was the case at all of my airlines.

[172_driver]

F/O does the start switches, Cpt. does the fuel levers. Same on every start regardless of PF/PM duties.
Odd I can think, but it's how we do it and it works. It ain't rocket science.

[Skyjob]

Flown with both suggested sets of SOPs, but definitively prefer the suggestion where FO starts.

It enables captain to monitor while simultaneously oversee pushback, especially when hand signals are required, use parking brake as required, signal/talk to ground crew while standard calls are being made by FO during process of starting engines who's sole responsibility at this stage is monitoring engine start...

Alternative, like PM/PF scenario, it ensures a good workload distribution when FO is PF. However when CP is PF he does ground crew, start engines, discuss delay codes, give hand signals if required, fuel levers and start switches, while FO only makes ONE SOP call (in present company): for Oil pressure...

[CallmeJB]

How often do engines start hot or hung these days? How often do ground crews flub up a pushback?

As a captain I'd rather monitor the whole situation, including the pushback, without having to be singularly focused on the engine start. Every jet engine I've ever worked with has been nuts-on reliable; less so the ground crews.

[parabellum]

As a training exercise only we had a TC who, in the sim, would give a simple start fault on #1 or #2, then we would proceed #3, normal start and so to #4, just as #4 lit up #1 would slowly start runaway up, (FCU fault), just to demonstrate the need for both pilots to monitor starts and don't forget the other engines which themselves have only just started and could be subject to a latent problem.

[ImbracableCrunk]

Since engine start and pushback often occur at the same time (at my airline, anyway), why make one pilot in charge of both?

We've had more issues with tugs and ground crew than we have had with engines.

[InSoMnIaC]

Just out of interest how does the captain "monitor" the pushback? I give the mechanic clearance to push and advise them of direction. The rest is up to them. If they push us into another aircraft I won't see it anyway. The most I can prevent is from turning in the wrong direction. Even If that happens.. say sorry to ATC and tell the mechanic he effed up.

As CN I glance to ensure we are pushing in the right direction but mainly concentrate on the engine start during pushback.

[Pin Head]

best way - so CPT has better monitoring capacity.

But able to role reverse quickly if it all goes wrong quickly.

[Private jet]

who is double checking if the first officer is starting and monitoring the parameters of each engine correctly?

If either pilot cannot be trusted to start a modern gas turbine engine on his or her own, then there is something seriously wrong with the calibre of the people occupying those seats.

[Piltdown Man]

PJ - You have it. Furthermore, I would be worn out if I had to control, double-check, monitor, observe, oversee and discuss everything that went on as some appear to do. Also, my attention would be stretched beyond capacity so I could do none of the above. And if that is the job of the captain, then I'm doing it wrong and have been doing so for years. But I shall continue to do things the way I do because things get done properly around me. I'll stick to the SOP's and the rules and try to keep all the work we have to do in small, bite size chunks enabling everyone to keep up and do their own jobs. But soon as anything strange appears in the horizon, I and my crew will start looking in that area.

[tdracer]

We don't make use of the autostart and manually motor the start /fuel / ignition so a bit more scope for a screw up but I still don't agree it should be a captain only.
Tango, curious why you wouldn't use autostart? The early autostart systems (on the 747-400) left a bit to be desired, but the later stuff is quite good. Good enough in fact that the 787 and 747-8 don't even have a manual start mode.

[Don Gato]

Thanks everyone for your imput. I was intrigued when my friend said that at his outfit all starts were done by the FO, since at my company they are done by the PF on the leg. Many variants of the procedure as we can see. Thanks again.

[Arewerunning]

As you might have seen, there are 1000 ways to do things safely: the important bit is not to become an SOP believer. There are already too many of them and I think, they are taking over.